the right to bear arms

[Seifer]

Hello friends

I have sold guns for a living in the past. I did it for four years. I can honestly say that I only sold guns to idiots. They are the only people that seem to purchase guns. I sold guns to people who could not read or write, and to people who seemed to know nothing about guns, or possibly did not even know what a gun was. A lot of them bought them for their children to play with. If I wasn't selling guns to idiots, I was selling ammo to them. They could never figure out which bullets to put in their own guns, and sometimes I'd try to help and ask what type of gun they had. "I don't know" is about the only answer I ever got. They were also all very rude and disrespectful to me, like they didn't know how to communicate with another person or something.

america rules

let us politely discuss this topic, m'friends

[sahiaman]

I have a question for you. What kinds of people bought more hand gun, and what kind bought more riffles?

[narcoman]

I've never understood the continuing "right to bear arms". Seems like such a stupid thing..... It's just not defendable, and probably the root of the "violence will solve it" mentality seen all over the USA. It's the sort of thing most of the world removed from everyday life many years ago......

[Rufuss Sewell]

Austin has the 5th lowest crime rate of all big cities in the U.S.

Here in Texas people have the right to carry concealed weapons.

Any idiot who wants to hold up a liqueur store would be more than happy to break the law in order to get a gun.

The question is: if you're an idiot with a gun would you rather rob a liquer store in California where you are pretty sure no one in there has a gun?

Or would you rather rob a liquer store in Texas where there's a good chance a law abiding citizen will have a gun in his belt?

All gun laws do is stop people who obey the law from defending themselves and others.

Obviously gun laws don't stop people who aren't concerned with obeying the law.

Now, if I could push a button and get rid of guns, nukes, poison, knives, rocks, tall buildings, cliffs, and cars... I would do it! But something tells me people who want to kill would still figure out a way to do it.


Gloria Bunker: "You know that 65 percent of the people murdered in the last 10 years were killed by handguns?"

Archie Bunker: "Would it make you feel any better, little girl, if they was pushed out of windows?"

[Kyle S]

im not dumb and i like guns. ive always been more into melee weapons than guns. ive been axe/hatchet/tomahawk/knife throwing since i was 12 and consider myself decent at the sport. i bust cans at 60 yards with iron sights, 1 shot each, all day long.

i will do anything i can to keep from meeting people like you described when guns are involved(or not, they sound like true idiots).

i can shoot a high powered rifle off my back porch all day and never hit anything/anyone im not supposed to so for you guys that can't truly enjoy guns i could see why its a take-it-or-leave-it thing.

gun control will never ever ever work. and if it does happen, i will be happy to see it fail miserably as the crime rate goes through the roof. i guess if some asshole breaks in my house ill just have to burn him alive with ronson and a zippo while blinding him with a million candle-watt spotlight.

it can always get a lot worse than being shot with a gun.

i have yet to see a working argument for gun control.

really, its like trying to ban a specific image on the internet. same reason why we can all still read Palin's emails if we wanted to weeks after she was hacked.

[Kyle S]

"Among the many misdeeds of British rule in India, history will look upon the Act depriving a whole nation of arms as the blackest." - Mahatma Gandhi

[NorseHorse]

I'm surprised at your original post. ALL the people I know who own guns are really knowledgable about the guns they own and even the guns they don't own. They're responsible and intelligent.

Perhaps you just live in an area full of idiots?

[narcoman]

Originally Posted by NorseHorse

I'm surprised at your original post. ALL the people I know who own guns are really knowledgable about the guns they own and even the guns they don't own. They're responsible and intelligent.

Perhaps you just live in an area full of idiots?

it's always the minority of souls.... problem being - it only taks a minority of individuals with a lethal weapon to cause issues. In a population twice the size of the USA (Europe as a whole) and with very strict control we have FAR less firearms based crime. FAAAR less ! I don't think we're particularly different on a cultural and social level - but just not getting the darn things as easily makes a huge difference.

[filin]

Originally Posted by Rufuss Sewell

Here in Texas people have the right to carry concealed weapons.

Just a question out of curiosity: Is it legal to carry a concealed weapon in Texas if you are drunk?

[T_R_S]

Originally Posted by Rufuss Sewell

Austin has the 5th lowest crime rate of all big cities in the U.S.

Here in Texas people have the right to carry concealed weapons.

Houston Texas has the second highest murder rate in us according to this in 2006 it when down in 2007 because it was so high the previous year.

Houston Murder Rate Reaches No. 2 In Nation - Houston News Story - KPRC Houston

[LaChunkyStudio]

A story.... about 10 years ago, a scottish visitor to florida got lost while driving around at night. He went and knocked on someone's door lookimg for directions and got blown away with a handgun for his troubles. The resident thought he was an intruder and just shot him - without asking any questions. The sickest thing is this trigger-happy murdering bastard resident got off.

In this country (UK), most people would have kept the door locked and called the police or asked the person at the door who they are. The option of gunning them down wouldn't be available. SECONDLY it is likely that they wouldn't have been scared that this intruder had a gun, because in our society we have very few guns and relatively to you yanks, very little gun crime.

Let look at the basic fact: strict gun control = low gun crime. Simple. And even more poignantly when the UK did suffer serious gun crimes (eg Dunblane and Hungerford massacres) our government did something about it and banned private ownership of handguns and assault weapons. They didn't listen to the gun club members bleating about their rights they just did the right thing. Unfortunately in the US, your government consistently sucks up to the gun lobby - an assortment of crazies, rednecks, psychopaths, right-wing loonies, evangelists (pro-life my arse), gun manufacturers and opportunistic politicians who rant on about a 300 year old constitutional right that was only relevant when the US didn't have a standing army to protect its people, so the people had to protect themselves. These days there is no reason for citizens to carry guns and its a shame that none of your spineless politicians can come out and say this for fear of invoking the wrath of the NRA.

[joeydego]

hmmmm. so only intellectuals should own guns? The constitution was written so every farmer or shopkeeper who can read will understand it. So proposing to take this VERY IMPORTANT check and balance away from the people can be a good thing? I beg to differ. Id just as soon take away the right to free speech and have a witch trial for the liberal media and while Im at it take away their 4th ammendment rights and raid their offices and seize documents without a warrant so we can FINALLY bring up Michael Moore and his minion on the charge of TREASON. The arguement is lost here when we presume to value the rights we think are important and which we dont. One can either be FOR constitutional rights or AGAINST them. Yes, the common idiot should own a gun, as long as he/she/it isnt retarded.

[joeydego]

Originally Posted by LaChunkyStudio

A story.... about 10 years ago, a scottish visitor to florida got lost while driving around at night. He went and knocked on someone's door lookimg for directions and got blown away with a handgun for his troubles. The resident thought he was an intruder and just shot him - without asking any questions. The sickest thing is this trigger-happy murdering bastard resident got off.

In this country (UK), most people would have kept the door locked and called the police or asked the person at the door who they are. The option of gunning them down wouldn't be available. SECONDLY it is likely that they wouldn't have been scared that this intruder had a gun, because in our society we have very few guns and relatively to you yanks, very little gun crime.

Let look at the basic fact: strict gun control = low gun crime. Simple. And even more poignantly when the UK did suffer serious gun crimes (eg Dunblane and Hungerford massacres) our government did something about it and banned private ownership of handguns and assault weapons. They didn't listen to the gun club members bleating about their rights they just did the right thing. Unfortunately in the US, your government consistently sucks up to the gun lobby - an assortment of crazies, rednecks, psychopaths, right-wing loonies, evangelists (pro-life my arse), gun manufacturers and opportunistic politicians who rant on about a 300 year old constitutional right that was only relevant when the US didn't have a standing army to protect its people, so the people had to protect themselves. These days there is no reason for citizens to carry guns and its a shame that none of your spineless politicians can come out and say this for fear of invoking the wrath of the NRA.

far too many people DIE waiting for the police to show up, who are really just civil servants looking for a paycheck to feed their families. Sorry but this is a cold hard fact. Many cops would rather just "take the report" after the criminal has left, if possible. Not saying this is a good thing, but its just a fact. Here in the USA, we dont have to rely on government to "do the right thing". We make choices on how to best protect our children here. thank god we have that freedom. Also, if our government decides to do something REALLY stupid, we have that check and balance in place to put a government in power with another revolution. I wouldnt get my Redcoat out of the closet so fast if I were you sir........the only americans you will find to give you quarter will be non-gun owners.

[bigos]

In Europe almost anyone can own a gun if they pas all the courses tests etc. Its hard to find an idiot with a gun here because basic intelligence is required to even touch a gun.
I grew up in Tuscaloosa, Alabama and I sometimes shudder at my memories of deer hunting with a bunch of kids and older morons. I remember once when about 10 of us were lined up on a road and told to shoot diagnaly while 5 other guys with dogs pushed the dear out from the woods accross the road. Of course its not all so bad and there are many intelligent people with guns but there hunting trips start when your six years old. I did lots of them and I still wonder how Im alive. Ive seen so many close calls!!!
bigos
Saraswati Studios

[equallyscrewed]

Originally Posted by joeydego

far too many people DIE waiting for the police to show up, who are really just civil servants looking for a paycheck to feed their families. Sorry but this is a cold hard fact. Many cops would rather just "take the report" after the criminal has left, if possible. Not saying this is a good thing, but its just a fact. Here in the USA, we dont have to rely on government to "do the right thing". We make choices on how to best protect our children here. thank god we have that freedom. Also, if our government decides to do something REALLY stupid, we have that check and balance in place to put a government in power with another revolution. I wouldnt get my Redcoat out of the closet so fast if I were you sir........the only americans you will find to give you quarter will be non-gun owners.

I hate getting into these arguements on this forum, but i think youve missed the point by a long way. What i think La Chunky was saying was that if the US goverment actually thought about the people rather than the powerful and banned gun ownership in the country people wouldnt need guns to protect themselfs because the bad guys wouldnt have guns. Sure theres always the black market as there is here (UK), but that means guns and ammo are so scarce that the gangs that use them only use them on each other and theres hardly ever any innocent bystanders.

If your kid or girlfriend or whatever was gunned down in columbine(USA) or Dunblane (UK) would you just sit back and say its cool cause its in the constitution that any nutcase can go into any shop and buy a gun and ammo? and if they are gunned down its their own fault cause they didnt have a gun to retaliate and turn the event into a godfather like bloodbath? yea, im sure you would...

At the end of the day guns are built with only one purpose. To kill. Not to protect, armour protects. Guns Kill.

And to think the US goes into countries to disarm them when in its own country people are encouraged to carry weapons.

Maybe we should give all our kids guns to take to school just incase of bullies? If they all have a gun itll be ok because guns = safety dont they?

and if i can quote again.."Also, if our government decides to do something REALLY stupid, we have that check and balance in place to put a government in power with another revolution." ... Outstanding. Whats REALLY stupid? rigging elections? starting wars in other disadvantaged countries for oil resulting in the deaths of hundreds of innocent soldiers? lying to every person in their own country (including YOU) about reasons for doing such things? Destroying the countries economy that has a knock on effect for the whole world? Backing out of agreements to reduce pollution because hummers are just so darn great, even though most of the world are in? Whats REALLY stupid? cause im praying im not around to see that happen....

[Quint]

Originally Posted by Rufuss Sewell

Gloria Bunker: "You know that 65 percent of the people murdered in the last 10 years were killed by handguns?"

Archie Bunker: "Would it make you feel any better, little girl, if they was pushed out of windows?"

Sweet. I love that line.

[LaChunkyStudio]

Originally Posted by joeydego

far too many people DIE waiting for the police to show up, who are really just civil servants looking for a paycheck to feed their families. Sorry but this is a cold hard fact. Many cops would rather just "take the report" after the criminal has left, if possible. Not saying this is a good thing, but its just a fact. Here in the USA, we dont have to rely on government to "do the right thing". We make choices on how to best protect our children here. thank god we have that freedom. Also, if our government decides to do something REALLY stupid, we have that check and balance in place to put a government in power with another revolution. I wouldnt get my Redcoat out of the closet so fast if I were you sir........the only americans you will find to give you quarter will be non-gun owners.

Do you not think your children would be safer if your society was not so awash with guns?

I would also imagine that an american revolution to put another government in power wold be met by the might of your army, so this is a facetious argument. Do citizens have the right to bear helicopter gunships, or F16 fighter-bombers, or aircraft carriers, or tanks (oh yeah you are allowed to drive humvees).

[Quint]

Originally Posted by T_R_S

Houston Texas has the second highest murder rate in us according to this in 2006 it when down in 2007 because it was so high the previous year.

Houston Murder Rate Reaches No. 2 In Nation - Houston News Story - KPRC Houston

In all fairness, you have to make sure that you understand why this is the case. Houston was the biggest recipient of Katrina victims of any city after the hurricane. Crime and poverty/low income tend to go hand in hand. Out of the Katrina victims that stayed in Houston, instead of moving back to New Orleans, the majority of them are poverty level. The people that could actually afford to move back have already done so. Thus, all that remains are those that are poor. This has skewed Houston's murder numbers substantially. If you're going to argue that gun ownership results in a higher murder rate, use a different city.

[equallyscrewed]

Originally Posted by Quint

In all fairness, you have to make sure that you understand why this is the case. Houston was the biggest recipient of Katrina victims of any city after the hurricane. Crime and poverty/low income tend to go hand in hand. Out of the Katrina victims that stayed in Houston, instead of moving back to New Orleans, the majority of them are poverty level. The people that could actually afford to move back have already done so. Thus, all that remains are those that are poor. This has skewed Houston's murder numbers substantially. If you're going to argue that gun ownership results in a higher murder rate, use a different city.

Guns dont kill people, strong winds do?

In all fairness, its a lot harder to kill someone without guns. we could pick the whole country and come to the same conclusion. Compare any state in america to the whole of the UK. Go on, any of the Lowest 5 states in the gun murder stakes per year to the whole of the UKs gun murder rate. We'll go by percentage of population murdered shall we?

[Quint]

Originally Posted by LaChunkyStudio

Do you not think your children would be safer if your society was not so awash with guns?

I would also imagine that an american revolution to put another government in power wold be met by the might of your army, so this is a facetious argument. Do citizens have the right to bear helicopter gunships, or F16 fighter-bombers, or aircraft carriers, or tanks (oh yeah you are allowed to drive humvees).

Your argument basically assumes that the check and balance of gun ownership against a government overstepping its bounds is no longer relevant due to the fact that private citizens could not hope to possibly compete against F-16's or aircraft carriers. That argument is completely false. If what you're saying was actually true, things should be going swimmingly in Iraq. In actuality, the opposite has been the case. An armed populace is an excellent counter balance to excessive government power. That is why we have the 2nd amendment. Protecting your property and family is simply an added benefit.

[equallyscrewed]

Originally Posted by Quint

Your argument basically assumes that the check and balance of gun ownership against a government overstepping its bounds is no longer relevant due to the fact that private citizens could not hope to possibly compete against F-16's or aircraft carriers. That argument is completely false. If what you're saying was actually true, things should be going swimmingly in Iraq. In actuality, the opposite has been the case. An armed populace is an excellent counter balance to excessive government power. That is why we have the 2nd amendment. Protecting your property and family is simply an added benefit.

So the guns dont help your army at all? whats the point in having them then?

[LaChunkyStudio]

You still haven't answered the question

Would your children be safer if your society wasn't so awash with guns?

Oh, and to further a facetious argument, if America is such a bastion of democracy in the world how could the possibility of armed citizen revolution ever be considered seriously? Surely if the government is unpopular you vote them out (which I sincerely hope you all do in 4 weeks time).

[Quint]

Originally Posted by equallyscrewed

So the guns dont help your army at all? whats the point in having them then?

That was supposed to be a serious question?

Look, the point is that all the modern technology doesn't matter when it comes down to the street. Does it help? Certainly, but in the end it still ends up being boots on the ground. Guns against guns. That's why I'm saying that Iraq is an excellent example of how small groups of relatively unorganized citizens can prove to be a tenacious adversary, even against all of the modern technology of the U.S. military.

[joeydego]

Yes sir, we can indeed own al gore choking tree killing humvees (choking al gore Id pay the gas bill to let it idle for a month). I live in the real world where skells dont rob you for a dollar and sing kumbayah after. They shoot/stab/rape you. 911 will not stop this. A gun however CAN give you a fighting chance. I take a firearm with me to do laundry, go grocery shopping, pick up my daughter to go to mcdonalds, or just about anywhere else. I have seen far too much of people and I dont trust a one of you with my safety or my families. Sorry. handguns serve one purpose and one purpose only: to fight your way to a rifle when the S*it REALLY hits the fan. MORE people in America should become gun owners.

[heyman]

Quote..

"Now, if I could push a button and get rid of guns, nukes, poison, knives, rocks, tall buildings, cliffs, and cars... I would do it! But something tells me people who want to kill would still figure out a way to do it."

Sorry, but it is too easy to loose one's cool, pull out a gun in a heated moment and blow someone's brains out. oops, I lost my cool, so now your dead..
my bad..

Do you see my point?

[LaChunkyStudio]

Originally Posted by bigos

In Europe almost anyone can own a gun if they pas all the courses tests etc. Its hard to find an idiot with a gun here because basic intelligence is required to even touch a gun.
I grew up in Tuscaloosa, Alabama and I sometimes shudder at my memories of deer hunting with a bunch of kids and older morons. I remember once when about 10 of us were lined up on a road and told to shoot diagnaly while 5 other guys with dogs pushed the dear out from the woods accross the road. Of course its not all so bad and there are many intelligent people with guns but there hunting trips start when your six years old. I did lots of them and I still wonder how Im alive. Ive seen so many close calls!!!
bigos
Saraswati Studios

er no!! Not in all of europe. In the UK, handguns and assault weapons are illegal to all, except law enforcement and the military . They are not even allowed to be used in private gun clubs. Farmers and hunters are allowed to have shotguns - ownership of which requires stringent vetting. I wouldn't like to be shot by a shotgun but at least they take time to reload and work only at relatively close range. So if some madman decided to go on the rampage with a shotgun then most of the intended victimes could get away before too many were killed.

[joeydego]

Originally Posted by equallyscrewed