Is LA still a good place to be for music?

[James Lugo]

Originally Posted by picksail

Seems a little näive of some to assume there is always a "scene".

Apparently many have failed to pay attention to the reality of the music business.
The reality is that it doesn't exist in the way it had before.

In LA right now the "scene" is called TV/Film licensing.
Music supervisors are the new A&R firms.

The conversations that I hear everyday are not "Can we get a record deal?" but instead "Can we get this song placed?"
I've been very fortunate to make a living in TV/film.

Get with it people.

Doesn't matter where you are.
Though as it is now, if you aren't in LA you may as well be in the middle of nowhere.

If you want to be a dairy farmer then move to Wisconsin.

Word.

[picksail]

Originally Posted by James 'LA' Lugo

Word.

I read your post and it got me all crazy.

[picksail]

Originally Posted by Greener

So it does matter where I am?

Can I not farm in the green belt over here in Australia? Damn, I better tell the cows...

Haha! Good one!

[AllAboutTone]

I have been pretty happy where I am for many years, IF I were gonna move it would not be CA. PERIOD !!!! It would not be in the US either....

[anemicrock]

I get what your saying guys but let me remind you. Paramore. Not once recorded in LA. They don't concentrate on playing LA shows ever five minutes because it's just so cool there. These bands play WORLDWIDE. You did know it's about FANS right and they are not just in LA. That's what sells records. Period. They are pretty huge.

YOU DON'T NEED LA TO MAKE IT.

Of course there are opportunities just outside your front door but that's all there is. No guarantees that if you move to LA and you crank up your game somethings gonna happen. It's all luck and luck has jack shit to with LA.

Most bands that "Make it" now are doing so by doing it all themselves. DIY. They tour there asses off and build up there following all over the place. Once these bands build there following the lazy ass labels might poke there nose in and sign someone up. Then probably drop them after spending a couple months after half ass promoting them.

By the the way I love Incubus.

Now if we were talking about people wanting to become an Film/actor then I would have a very differant outlook. LA would then be a must.

[mbradzick]

While I don't know if LA's as necessary as it used to be, there are a hell of a lot of producers out here, and for me that means work. I was drawn to the city cause of the Film/TV as well as Record Industries, and there's certainly no shortage of history in any of those departments. New York and London certainly compete in those arenas.

I'd definitely agree though that syncing to picture is still one of the best way to break new acts, and music supervisors are as important as ever to cut thru the musical clutter.

In regards to LA, I can surf in Malibu every weekend, go snowboarding if I want, go camping and hiking whenever I feel like it, and I get paid to do what I love. I can't complain.

[Fleaman]

Originally Posted by anemicrock

YOU DON'T NEED LA TO MAKE IT.

That's quite obvious....don't think anyone here claimed that at All.

Of course there are opportunities just outside your front door but that's all there is.

Advantage, LA.

No guarantees that if you move to LA and you crank up your game somethings gonna happen. It's all luck and luck has jack shit to with LA.

I disagree that it's all luck, but I assume you're being facetious.

Of course there are no 'Guarantees', here in LA or Anywhere.

Most bands that "Make it" now are doing so by doing it all themselves. DIY. They tour there asses off and build up there following all over the place. Once these bands build there following the lazy ass labels might poke there nose in and sign someone up. Then probably drop them after spending a couple months after half ass promoting them.

Before they tour usually you build up a following in your home town/city. Building up a good following in a small town where everyone knows you doesn't count, you only have to be popular (even if your band sucks). Trying to build a following in the entertainment capital of the world, that takes quite a lot, and luck doesn't have much to do with it (in general). Here in LA you are competing with more top line bands/artists than anywhere else in the world. If you can build a big following and buzz here, record companies/A&R take major note, MAJOR note.

That's the difference. And that's why many many many bands move to LA.

That would not happen in a small town until you tour beyond it....unless, like you say, you are incredibly lucky (A&R discovers your tape in a mail pile and loves it, etc.).

If you do a van club/bar tour, and no one knows who you are, no one is really gonna show up, unless you play with other bands that draw. Even then, a few new fans in a bunch of small towns doesn't really build a following, nor does it show that you will sell on a major label level. While there are a few exceptions, most bands will move to a big city of some sort if they are from a small'ish town (like Aerosmith moving to Boston), build a following in the city (the first big 'test' for a band), then think about a tour.

[anemicrock]

Fleaman, I agree with everything your saying it's just sometimes you made it sound like LA was the only place worth being in a band.

Of course bands need to build a following in their home town first (unless it's a farming town or some shit) then hit the road.

I was being a little facetious but I have been in my band for 10 years and have reached points in our career where we thought things would get easier. (MTV, BIG TOURS, KERRANG MAGAAZINE INTERVIEWS, GREAT REVIEWS etc) but still not much came from that.

Example. 10 years doing it. Little band supports us at a show. Basic band. Bland and they we're only 16. Asking us questions about how we were doing so well backstage. 1 month later there supporting AVA, Paramore, On the cover of every magazine in the UK, MTV every min, and now sell out pretty big shows. Luck? Put it this way they have rich parents. I also know for a fact that they paid to get every one of those first big tours.

Sucks but that's the way it is over here.

It's the same the world over. Even if yo do build up a big following in LA doesn't mean your gonna make it big. But let's just agree to disagree on this one and lay it to rest.

But just know, I LOVE LA. It's where I grew up and would absolutly love to live there again. I was only talking about the whole (needing to be in LA if your in a band thing).

Peace!

[RMJAZZ]

LA is, and probably always will be, THE place where tours originate, musicians live, and tons of records are made. Yes things are changing from the days of huge labels and huge studios dominating everything...but that doesn't mean that there is no scene.

NYC and Nashville have been good for recording in the past, but I know a lot of musicians that have moved from there to LA. The scene is where the musicians tend to hang their hat.

If you don't see a scene, then you might not be hanging in the right circle of "friends".....notice the quotes around that word. In the current climate of the recording industry I think networking on a personal level has become more and more important for engineers. I would say to the OP...get out and try to meet more people...musicians, producers...etc. It is hard to break into recording..people use engineers they trust, and it takes time to build that trust.

****Sorry to rant, but to speak off subject a little- I see a lot of people in the D.C. area thinking that if they read gearslutz, buy the "correct" gear, and learn a little about it, that they can survive as a studio. They completely forget about the business side of running a studio...marketing, who is your target market? How much expenditure is re-coupable, and when are you spending too much for the level of work you can bring in? What needs are not being met by the studios in your city????? I guess this is one of the pit-falls of affordable gear.....

Rob

[mbradzick]

First, I think there are two sides of this convo...the musician/artist side and the producer/engineer side. I'm on the producer/engineer side.

I've known two very talented musician/artists/composer/engineers who moved AWAY from LA. Why? Cause they could do what they need to make a living with music at a much lower cost of living. Yeah, $170k will get you a NICE house almost anywhere else in the US. Now, an important fact is that they came to LA first, and built up their contacts, relationships and experience before they were able to operate "remotely."

I don't know what it's like to be a studio owner. I have a private one that I use for select projects but I'm a freelance engineer. That means I have to be where the producers are. What I realized AFTER I started this thread is that Joe Bloe and the Buzzcocks can be from Liberal, Kansas, but if they wanna get the attention of Brendan O'Brien they probably need to come to LA.

[RMJAZZ]

Originally Posted by Michael Zick

First, I think there are two sides of this convo...the musician/artist side and the producer/engineer side. I'm on the producer/engineer side.

I've known two very talented musician/artists/composer/engineers who moved AWAY from LA. Why? Cause they could do what they need to make a living with music at a much lower cost of living. Yeah, $170k will get you a NICE house almost anywhere else in the US. Now, an important fact is that they came to LA first, and built up their contacts, relationships and experience before they were able to operate "remotely."

I don't know what it's like to be a studio owner. I have a private one that I use for select projects but I'm a freelance engineer. That means I have to be where the producers are. What I realized AFTER I started this thread is that Joe Bloe and the Buzzcocks can be from Liberal, Kansas, but if they wanna get the attention of Brendan O'Brien they probably need to come to LA.

I like Mike! You make a fantastic point.
Where you are in you career should dictate "where" you should be geographic wise. So LA is still good for getting your foot in the door....the young/first timers still need to realize that it has NEVER been easy to break into the music industry, no mater what city you are in, or what aspect you represent.

[Fleaman]

Originally Posted by anemicrock

Fleaman, I agree with everything your saying it's just sometimes you made it sound like LA was the only place worth being in a band.

I said that if you wanna play with the big boys, you need to come to LA. The odds are best here, but the competition is also the hardest. It's the law of attrition and exactly why A&R (if they even exist anymore), shakers and movers allow LA itself to weed out the the weak.

Of course bands need to build a following in their home town first (unless it's a farming town or some shit) then hit the road.

Yet again, you could spend a year or so building a following in a small or medium size home town, another year or so hitting the road and playing small clubs that you're not recognized at....

...or, you could move to LA, build a following here in 1 or 2 years, and if you're good, the odds are some or a few movers/shakers will have seen or heard you.

How would you like to spend the next 2 years?

I was being a little facetious but I have been in my band for 10 years and have reached points in our career where we thought things would get easier. (MTV, BIG TOURS, KERRANG MAGAAZINE INTERVIEWS, GREAT REVIEWS etc) but still not much came from that.

That's all promotion/media coverage, etc. That's the stage bands get to when they have buzz, but it doesn't usually translate to record sales or even a record contract.

Example. 10 years doing it. Little band supports us at a show. Basic band. Bland and they we're only 16. Asking us questions about how we were doing so well backstage. 1 month later there supporting AVA, Paramore, On the cover of every magazine in the UK, MTV every min, and now sell out pretty big shows. Luck? Put it this way they have rich parents. I also know for a fact that they paid to get every one of those first big tours.

$$ was used to market and promote that young band. That's not luck, that's reducing your odds. w/o big $$ you'll need a record company or big management to do that, the Parents skipped that process and it looks like it paid off....assuming that they actually are making $$$.

Not exactly luck.

It's the same the world over. Even if yo do build up a big following in LA doesn't mean your gonna make it big. But let's just agree to disagree on this one and lay it to rest.

The point is that LA is just another tool for a band/artist. It IS the entertainment capital of the world, it IS the most competitive, yet on the flip side it offers a lot of opportunity. More top line musicians/artists to build a band, more contacts, more music clubs, more fans, more music business types, etc.

Problem is, the record industry as a whole doesn't have the means to sign and promote bands anymore, but that's another topic

But just know, I LOVE LA. It's where I grew up and would absolutly love to live there again. I was only talking about the whole (needing to be in LA if your in a band thing).

Again, if you wanna increase your odds, know where you stand (as an band/artist/entertainer), and you had to pick ONE place that offers the most, LA would be it. You don't have to come here, and many don't, many also come and leave shortly thereafter, 'cos LA isn't easy to even survive on a daily level (Jobs, living costs, etc.).

But as an example, I just went to Spaceland last night...it's a free night (every monday is free music in the silverlake club scene), it was at capacity, a good 400+ heads. Out of those 400+ heads is the largest percentage of musicians, music industry, press (there were 6 pro photographers there), than anywhere else in the world----and this happens on a weekly or daily level here, it wasn't a showcase.
I was introduced to 8 musicians and a management company through mutual friends. I'm not currently in a band right now, but I get introduced anyway, because it's just a friend introducing another friend, you can't swing a Les Paul w/o hitting someone related to music here.

No doubt it would be easier to build a following in your smaller home town, that's exactly why record labels in general don't focus on bands with big followings in smaller towns.

So again, how would you like to spend your first few years building your band?

.

[riteup3]

Originally Posted by jamie10

wrong in most cases.
Location influences the music, environment affects the music.
Location affects YOU as a person and how you feel, whihc in effect affects the music....some places are just inspiring and vibe is right....some places are just not good... we are products of our cities/areas/friends/company we keep... the people you meet and the place you live is so so crucial in regards to your music...

truer words were never spoken

i litterally hate where i live now (paris, france) ... can't wait to get back to LA

[Fleaman]

Originally Posted by Greener

Enjoying myself, jambing with my buddies and basically having a good time.
How about you?

Nothing wrong with that.....in fact, that is how it all started with me.

[jamie10]

fleaman knows.

spaceland = daaaaaamn! thats what im talking about........

riteup3 you feel me!

[AllAboutTone]

So is Country Music moving to LA ?

[Jim Williams]

Originally Posted by AllAboutTone

So is Country Music moving to LA ?

Yes. However, it's from another country.

Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades

[Fleaman]

Originally Posted by Jim Williams

Yes. However, it's from another country.

Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades

Yep, from Europe, starting around the late 18th century...

[GrooveMerchant]

Any chance we can rekindle this thread? Come on man, I was scoping some properties in Thousand Oaks and North Hollywood yesterday! I need to get my groove on and get one of those ABC rehearsal spots ASAP !!!

[HermanV]

I think Spaceland changed their name to Satellite recently. I've never gone there as I am only 20 but lot's of great bands got their start there. I live right next to Silverlake and it's a cool little hip area. The valley is nice too

[Hollywoods]

Originally Posted by James 'LA' Lugo

Not that you can't get things going anywhere but I think location can really work for some people. I know for me it matters. Growing up and playing music in South Florida it was very depressing at times. Felt hopelss because I never saw much success around me but in LA I am surrounding by massive success and an endless chain of musicians and producers with excitement and energy (even in these "bad times' many of us are still doing well).

I live in Southwest Florida and i have to say for the music business it blows. I was once told by some people in Nashville years ago that if you want to get in this business, move to Nashville, L.A., or New York and get to know people. That's how it works. although i must say that the internet has made the world a much smaller place.

[Fleaman]

Originally Posted by HermanV

I think Spaceland changed their name to Satellite recently. I've never gone there as I am only 20 but lot's of great bands got their start there. I live right next to Silverlake and it's a cool little hip area. The valley is nice too

Yeah, the club promoter and the owner of the building parted ways. The building owner hired the booker that had worked for spaceland for 10+ years and changed the name to Satellite. Should be more of the same, maybe even better (as there is no friction between building owner and promoter).

'Spaceland' will supposedly open again in a different location, but maybe with a more dj/dance type club. In the meantime, it seems 'spaceland promotions' will still book shows at Satellite for a while...

Here's an interview with Spaceland's Mitchell Frank>>>

Mitchell Frank talks about the end of Club Spaceland and his new dance-focused venue | Pop & Hiss | Los Angeles Times

[chet.d]

Originally Posted by Hollywoods

i must say that the internet has made the world a much smaller place.

True, but to a degree.
Almost always, the way opportunities ensue is through real relationships.
Relationships within your proximity that form over time or, via the doing things leads to other things philosophy.

I miss LA at times and I do believe that where you are matters in so far as opportunities to work w others and gain attention from that work.

If film/tv is you interest then it pretty much comes down to LA or NY.
It also is an A&R turned Music supervisor world it seems.

[AllAboutTone]

Originally Posted by riteup3

truer words were never spoken

i litterally hate where i live now (paris, france) ... can't wait to get back to LA

You have got to be kidding, it must be the music to ever come back to LA, cannot be anything else for sure.
LA is the last place I would want to live in CA. The place is just nasty.

[Fleaman]

Originally Posted by AllAboutTone

You have got to be kidding, it must be the music to ever come back to LA, cannot be anything else for sure.
LA is the last place I would want to live in CA. The place is just nasty.

As opposed to Defcon 3?



But really, LA is a HUGE city sprawl, and there's much nasty here for sure (like most sprawling huge cities). But there are cooler, nicer, laid-back areas of LA (in the city limits) that are far from 'nasty'. In fact, they are quite quaint.

My guess is that when you lived(?) here, you might of lived in the valley or hollywood???

[dizavin]

anywhere can be a "scene" for music, nowadays.

all you need to worry about is getting tastemakers to hear and dig your material.

and good material is good no matter what. and everyone usually finds out about new music via the ineterweb anyways, so living in a town that has piles of live acts is kind of a moot point nowadays.

unless playing live is your thing.

[HermanV]

LA is pretty messed up but its nothing compared to say NY. When I first got here last year, I lived right in the heart of Hollywood and it sucked (way overpriced, shitty people). I moved here for school and to network and give this audio thing a shot. I have stuff going on outside of school and it's gone pretty good so far. I have made some money doing post work but pretty much nothing in music yet. I think moving here is the best thing I could of done. I feel once I turn 21 a whole little world of possibilities will open up for me in the music scene.
My biggest fear is finishing school and ending up like almost every other recording school student

[AllAboutTone]

Originally Posted by dizavin

anywhere can be a "scene" for music, nowadays.

You are so right, in fact we can leave LA, NY and my place out of the picture, our band gets way more sells overseas than in the US, people in other countries like and respect american music unlike the shady crazy music industry we have here.
US has went to hell music wise, thats why I am still playing for fun, I give up 20 years ago trying to advance with my music, in fact I would not take it on a silver platter now, why would I want to end up having to pay some advancement back on a record signing. Just not worth it.

[Fleaman]

Originally Posted by chet.d

True, but to a degree.
Almost always, the way opportunities ensue is through real relationships.
Relationships within your proximity that form over time or, via the doing things leads to other things philosophy.

I miss LA at times and I do believe that where you are matters in so far as opportunities to work w others and gain attention from that work.

If film/tv is you interest then it pretty much comes down to LA or NY.
It also is an A&R turned Music supervisor world it seems.

Above is what you can't get from the 'interweb'.

As for bands/musicians/artists--whether you end up as an opening act for a bigger band on tour, music placed in tv/movie/commercials or even join a bigger act as a musician or hired gun, most all of these opportunities come about from people you meet, become friends with, who turn you on to other people who may/can/will help you or promote you. The larger that community is, the more you meet and the better chances you have, however small they maybe these days.

This is why LA has an advantage, regardless if anyone likes the city or not (which usually depends on the level of success they achieve, or not ).

[HermanV]

Originally Posted by Fleaman

This is why LA has an advantage, regardless if anyone likes the city or not (which usually depends on the level of success they achieve, or not ).

Definitely the most important thing is getting out there as much as you can and having some basic "people skills". making sure you don't suck that much at what you do if you have the drive you might just hit the lottery