Is LA still a good place to be for music?

[Fleaman]

Originally Posted by neilio

can never go wrong with austin or nashville

A friend of mine had just moved back to Austin (from LA/silverlake) and says the music scene there just plain sucks now. Bread and butter bands/music, nothing edgy....more nickleback like. The only time it is good is during SXSW.

Talked to another Austinite and he concurred about the music scene now, he moved here to Silverlake.

[clarkcontrol]

I would move to Austin in a second if one could make any money as a musician. Lots of low-balling hippies apparently keep the prices so low (trying to make that big break!) that pro level guys can't charge what they're worth.

I live in Dallas, and it's the best environment for music business in the state.

I have friends in NY and they say the 'art' music scene in NYC (mostly jazz music) is better than LA. In LA, music is more 'business' mostly because of its proximity to Hollywood. For instance, if I wanted to do big name tours as a sideman I should move to LA or Nashville.

Curious, because someone here mentioned that it is exactly the opposite.

My reasons for mentioning this have to do with hearing that there is a pay-to-play thing in the LA venues (once again, somewhat contrary to other comments on this thread). I wish I had more concrete examples, but I am thinking seriously of moving to NYC for the jazz/live scene.

So, please, I want to hear more! Let me know what you think!

Clark

[mbradzick]

Originally Posted by clarkcontrol

I would move to Austin in a second if one could make any money as a musician. Lots of low-balling hippies apparently keep the prices so low (trying to make that big break!) that pro level guys can't charge what they're worth.

I live in Dallas, and it's the best environment for music business in the state.

I have friends in NY and they say the 'art' music scene in NYC (mostly jazz music) is better than LA. In LA, music is more 'business' mostly because of its proximity to Hollywood. For instance, if I wanted to do big tours as a sideman I should move to LA or Nashville.

Curious, because someone here mentioned that it is exactly the opposite.

My reasons for mentioning this have to do with hearing that there is a pay-to-play thing in the LA venues (once again, somewhat contrary to other comments on this thread). I wish I had more concrete examples, but I am thinking seriously of moving to NYC for the jazz/live scene.

So, please, I want to hear more! Let me know what you think!

Clark

Silverlake/Los Feliz/Echo Park is definitely the "hip" scene, flooded with Indie bands, but tons and tons of bands still frock to Sunset where it's definitely pay-to-play. You gotta buy tickets to your own show then sell them to your friends and fans. It's obsurd, considering how much they charge for drinks.

I interned for a buddy who was house engineer at the Roxy, and the bands I saw there on a regular were shit shit shit. I mean, embarrasingly unoriginal and bad musicians.

[clarkcontrol]

Ah, the Silverlake vs. Sunset thing. That makes sense.

Also, thinking about it, I remember that restaurants (catering live jazz, etc.) switched to pay-to play as well in LA. I might be wrong, though.

NYC is super low money, don't get me wrong. I'm just trying to learn more here. Plus, I know that a lot of venues in NYC do the ticket thing as well.

Something my best friend (producer) has noticed in NY: Acts do better when they're imported than if they're local. Something about "oooh, so-and-so's in town" kind of thing. Local acts in manhattan find it hard to get people to show up when they're "always around."

Clark

[Fleaman]

Originally Posted by Michael Zick

I interned for a buddy who was house engineer at the Roxy, and the bands I saw there on a regular were shit shit shit. I mean, embarrasingly unoriginal and bad musicians.

Been like that for a very very long time on the Sunset strip. Anyone can play there since they are 'buying' the show/slot. The Audience is pretty much all friends/family of said band.

I remember a work friend in a hair/hard rock band partied it up back stage (livin large!) in the late '80's and got a $1,500 bar bill They had ordered bottles of jack D. and discovered after the fact that the Roxy charges by the number of shots in the bottle Of course all their equipment was confiscated until they could come up with the cash a few days later.

Nice.

Silverlake/Los Feliz/Echo Park is definitely the "hip" scene, flooded with Indie bands, but tons and tons of bands still frock to Sunset where it's definitely pay-to-play. You gotta buy tickets to your own show then sell them to your friends and fans. It's obsurd, considering how much they charge for drinks.

The Sunset strip used to be the hip spot....in the late '60's...during the doors, etc. Silverlake area is probably where the strip was in the '60/'70's.

But the Silverlake scene is getting harder to get gigs at. Spaceland is the #1 spot to play in LA for indie/alternative acts....it is now known nationwide, just like the Whiskey has been. Because of that, there are less and less local acts getting in....and I mean good local acts. Look at Spacelands line up and you see a lot of touring outta town acts. I bet the exact same thing happened back in the day on Sunset strip.
20+ years (or sooner?) from now Silverlake could be in the same situation with pay-to-play, etc.

Spaceland and the like should be careful though. Monday nights used to go to capacity by 10-11p every week....about 2-3 years ago. Now it never does (can come close on a good night). They are playing the management/booking/favor game and that doesn't translate to filling the club like word of mouth good local bands used to do a few years ago.

[Fu Schnickens]

Originally Posted by Fleaman

Oh boy, it's Jim with the LA-Mexican-thing again.....

Yep, that's right, and those of us who speak Spanish definitely have an advantage when it comes to drumming up business. More to choose from, you know.
And it's not all "con-caca" music, either. You've got Latin jazz, salsa, rock en espanol, punk en espanol, metal pesado, cuban rhythms, reggae, etc. A second language is definitely a plus.

[mbradzick]

Originally Posted by Fu Schnickens

A second language is definitely a plus.

In any situation.

[mbradzick]

Originally Posted by Fleaman

20+ years (or sooner?) from now Silverlake could be in the same situation with pay-to-play, etc.

I wouldn't give it that long at the rate it's going. While I've seen Jason Faulkner and Rocco Deluca play at Spaceland I can't say that I haven't seen shitty local bands there.

[Fu Schnickens]

"Been like that for a very very long time on the Sunset strip. Anyone can play there since they are 'buying' the show/slot. The Audience is pretty much all friends/family of said band."

F@#$ the pay-to-play thing. It is possible to play at the Roxy, Whiskey, Viper Room on a Saturday without buying the night in advance. I did it with my band at all those venues and others. I don't remember how, but we managed to wrangle a slot at these places without too much hassle. But you have to be willing say "F&^% that!" when the booker wants to charge your band money.

[mbradzick]

Three words: Sean Healy Presents

[kingofswing]

Originally Posted by Fleaman

I was talking about straight up DJ's...that don't create anything other than mixing 2 songs together.

There are way more people that will pay good $$ to dance to DJ music than watch or dance to a live band. Hundreds of DJ clubs in LA and a handful of live music clubs...

With blo*dy good reason too...

I have been in the DJ scene for over 12 years and with great success here in the UK, europe, middle east and right to the far east. We have some super clients (in the worlds rich list, film stars, and bla bla bla). Here is what I think about 'some' bands Vs a good DJ.

Bands - most of them stop and start at will and they only sing what they want to. Lets face it, do half the people in the crowd know the music well enough to get involved with a new unknown band? Great bands are great bands and very far from the worst, in which case a good to great DJ can do far better for his / her audience over any crappy band...period.

I have seen bands bring down the works in terms of gear (booked by event teams), full drums kits, dozens of mics, a big mixing desk with a so called engineer, lead singers, backing singers, bass player, keyboards players, and the crowd dance for one or two tracks and then they want the DJ. Many over hyped bands get washed away at events I have played at over the years, and the DJ takes the highlight, and for a good reason too. Don't get me wrong, a sh*t DJ could do far worse.

A good DJ will play the right music to a given crowd (familiar music being the key), keeping the crowd on the dance floor for god knows how many hours. Thats where the enjoyment starts. A really good DJ can mix tracks up creatively (if they know how to), use fx (if need be), scratch the odd tune, drop a popular number at the 'right' point, etc, etc. This is why hundreds if not thousands of people line up outside a popular nightclub each and every day (besides many other things too).

Clubs aside, some top DJ's also work in top notch fancy hotel ball rooms, exclusive venues, corporate events, film launch parties, celeb parties, etc. Lets also not forget that DJ's help and contribute in making unkown 'music' (and bands alike) known to the wider audience (in much the same way radio does or did too). How this may or may not affect record sales, I don't wish to discuss.

So to conclude, DJ's are not bad people just because they can't tune a guitar or so. Some can still be damn talented though. One of my DJ friends is a grade 8 classically trained pianist...not bad hey.

[mbradzick]

Originally Posted by kingofswing

With blo*dy good reason too...

I have been in the DJ scence for over 12 years and with great success here in the UK, europe, middle east and right to the far east. We have some super clients (in the worlds rich list, film stars, and bla bla bla). Here is what I think about 'some' bands Vs a good DJ.

Bands - most of them stop and start at will and they sing what they want. Lets face it, do half the people in the crowd know the music well enough to get involved with a new unknown band? Great bands are great bands and very far from the worst, in which case a good to great DJ can do far better for his / her audience over any crappy band...period.

A good DJ will play the right music to a given crowd (familiar music being the key), keeping the crowd on the dance floor for god knows how many hours. Thats where the enjoyment starts. A really good DJ can mix tracks up creatively (if they know how to), use fx (if need be), scratch the odd tune, drop a popular number at the 'right' point, etc, etc. This is why hundreds if not thousands of people line up outside a popular nightclub each and every day (besides many other things too).

Clubs aside, some top DJ's also work in top notch fancy hotel ball rooms, exclusive venues, corporate events, film launch parties, celeb parties, etc. Lets also not forget that DJ's help and contribute in making unkown 'music' (and bands alike) known to the wider audience (in much the same way radio does or did too). How this may or may not affect record sales, I don't wish to discuss.

So to conclude, DJ's are not bad people. Some can still be damn talented too. One of my DJ friends is a grade 8 pianist...not bad hey.

Well you're talking about different genres. Who hires a DJ to spin the latest Interpol song or My Chemical Romance? No, you have the latest Neptunes-produced cut or the Paul Oakenfold. Much different listeners as well whose prime purpose for the music is a mating dance on the floor.

[Fu Schnickens]

Originally Posted by kingofswing

With blo*dy good reason too...

I have been in the DJ scence for over 12 years and with great success here in the UK, europe, middle east and right to the far east. We have some super clients (in the worlds rich list, film stars, and bla bla bla). Here is what I think about 'some' bands Vs a good DJ.

Bands - most of them stop and start at will and they sing what they want. Lets face it, do half the people in the crowd know the music well enough to get involved with a new unknown band? Great bands are great bands and very far from the worst, in which case a good to great DJ can do far better for his / her audience over any crappy band...period.

A good DJ will play the right music to a given crowd (familiar music being the key), keeping the crowd on the dance floor for god knows how many hours. Thats where the enjoyment starts. A really good DJ can mix tracks up creatively (if they know how to), use fx (if need be), scratch the odd tune, drop a popular number at the 'right' point, etc, etc. This is why hundreds if not thousands of people line up outside a popular nightclub each and every day (besides many other things too).

Clubs aside, some top DJ's also work in top notch fancy hotel ball rooms, exclusive venues, corporate events, film launch parties, celeb parties, etc. Lets also not forget that DJ's help and contribute in making unkown 'music' (and bands alike) known to the wider audience (in much the same way radio does or did too). How this may or may not affect record sales, I don't wish to discuss.

So to conclude, DJ's are not bad people just because they can't tune a guitar or so. Some can still be damn talented though. One of my DJ friends is a grade 8 classically trained pianist...not bad hey.

"Hey, roll over DJ
you're spinnin' away
all my time" -- Jet


A good (cover?) band should be able to do the same. The original music thing is a different story.

[kingofswing]

Originally Posted by Fu Schnickens

"Hey, roll over DJ
you're spinnin' away
all my time" -- Jet


A good (cover?) band should be able to do the same. The original music thing is a different story.

Well that is where i'm coming from - familiar music. Like I said, a great band is a great band, no questions asked.. My point being that not all DJ's fall into the 'untalented' slot. Good DJ's are needed just as much as bands IMHO. Plus i'm talking from my own experience and the quality of work I do for my clients.

[kingofswing]

Originally Posted by Michael Zick

Well you're talking about different genres. Who hires a DJ to spin the latest Interpol song or My Chemical Romance? No, you have the latest Neptunes-produced cut or the Paul Oakenfold. Much different listeners as well whose prime purpose for the music is a mating dance on the floor.

Yes obviously it all depends on the genre of music too (sorry for not mentioning this).

But you never know...some DJ's will play anything. The type of event / application is also important to remember. Not all DJ's play at clubs - we stopped a good 3 years ago.

[Fleaman]

Originally Posted by Michael Zick

I wouldn't give it that long at the rate it's going. While I've seen Jason Faulkner and Rocco Deluca play at Spaceland I can't say that I haven't seen shitty local bands there.

Shitty bands are everywhere and you will always see them on any night at just about any club. The difference was the ratio of shitty-to-good bands was better at spaceland, yet not so good these days (still better than just about anywhere else though).

[Fleaman]

Originally Posted by kingofswing

So to conclude, DJ's are not bad people just because they can't tune a guitar or so. Some can still be damn talented though. One of my DJ friends is a grade 8 classically trained pianist...not bad hey.

I agree with Zick, it's 2 different scenes/genres.

I myself know quite of bit of popular Dj's here....a lot of the biggest local ones and every single one of them admitted to me that Dj's are overrated.

One of them was all excited when he started playing in a band doing the portishead like scratching. I laughed and said that he won't last a month.

And to the day, after showing up to rehearsal 3x a week, setting up, breaking down, luggin equip and playing shows....all for no $$, he quite.

Many of the local ones here that make good $$ only spent a few months learning the craft...much longer collecting the vinyl of course....all the time making $$ at every gig, getting laid and only having to lug some vinyl around

[kingofswing]

Originally Posted by Fleaman

I agree with Zick, it's 2 different scenes/genres.

I myself know quite of bit of popular Dj's here....a lot of the biggest local ones and every single one of them admitted to me that Dj's are overrated.

One of them was all excited when he started playing in a band doing the portishead like scratching. I laughed and said that he won't last a month.

And to the day, after showing up to rehearsal 3x a week, setting up, breaking down, luggin equip and playing shows....all for no $$, he quite.

Many of the local ones here that make good $$ only spent a few months learning the craft...much longer collecting the vinyl of course....all the time making $$ at every gig, getting laid and only having to lug some vinyl around

You make fair points - it's all valid thumbsup

The thing with myself and my brother, we don't lug around heavy vinyl anymore, we moved over to CDJ's in 1997, transfered all our wax to cd's. We own around 20,000 plus vinyl between us, but many more cd's than that. We buy original music only, do not download - we pay our way. For our type of work (which involves lots of asian music too), CD's are the only way to stay in the game.

We treat DJ work more as a business these days (the love for music is still there though...which helps), so it's a different story to your average on and off DJ turning to producer. We work at 3-4 events / parties a week. Our work is 99% referral (no banners, flyers, etc) and we play many different genres of music, so it works well for us, we don't limit our music playing capacity. As a DJ, if you have been playing for a good number of years, you will also pick up alot along the way (musical taste, the bigger picture, not playing for yourself). Also what helps is that, we know most of our clients and vice versa. We own all our gear (lots of different rigs for small to large events), for the most part we have compacted our setup to a point where we are not breaking our backs...lol (very important for long term). As for the money side, being here in the UK, private DJ work (for the extreme high end market) has paid very well, more so than a typical 9-5 and some. Plus we do what we love best - music.

[Fleaman]

Yeah, can't argue with that. It's good pay here too. Bands can't approach that kinda income until they're practically playing on Leno/Letterman/coachella. And even at Coachella I bet the DJ's get more individually than a single bandmember at coachella gets.

The demand is there for it...plain and simple. Not enough demand for live bands playing original music. It's sad to me, that's all

[kingofswing]

Originally Posted by Fleaman

Yeah, can't argue with that. It's good pay here too. Bands can't approach that kinda income until they're practically playing on Leno/Letterman/coachella. And even at Coachella I bet the DJ's get more individually than a single bandmember at coachella gets.

The demand is there for it...plain and simple. Not enough demand for live bands playing original music. It's sad to me, that's all

It is a shame and I totally agree with you. Live music has it's own vibe, especially when done properly.

The only thing that annoys me about some cover bands, is when they cannot sing properly or seem off key here and there. The music sometimes sounds different too, cheap sounds from inferior synth boards, etc. The drummers are bang on and then the rest of the band lets it down .

But a good band or a great band always shines through.

ps: i remember dj'ing at a wedding reception along side a band a few years back, the young sound engineer behind the desk cranked up the bass eq (showing off towards the end of their set before we went on... and what a complete idiot i thought) on the kick drum and the keyboard guy playing the bass from a JV1080 module, it was way too muddy, the vocals just disappeared, the melody from the nordlead faded, he killed the show. Lucky they had their own sound rig to us.

[gravityminor]

I moved to Echo Park in 2002 because Silverlake was too expensive. It's a shame to look at it now. While participating in the "scene" I realized how shitty it really is over there. The musicianship is horrible, haircuts are far more important in this town anyhow. Yea sure, there are some great people making great music. Same goes for Anytown USA. Most people suck or quit before they get good because they really just wanted some hipster pussy and to play with drugs for a while. Or maybe... to be hipster pussy. Who knows.

Problem is, there's no filter here. There are thousands of bands playing all of the time. I've spent plenty of time in Nashville and loads of good music comes out of that place. Loads of bad music too. But the "scene" is smaller for indie rock (since we're talking silverlake/echo park). Look at studios like Battle Tapes in East Nashville. I don't know if Jeremy's on GS but that guy records loads of great stuff there. I've played with so many great local bands on tour that it blows my mind. It really kept us going and having fun.

Ultimately, I've done well to move to LA. I can't say that staying here will help me much more though. The cost of living here is insane. The amount of sh*t you have to wade through to accomplish the smallest task is also insane. The weather is GREAT. I feel weird "dropping out" at 33 years old and moving back to Nashville. But, I'm in this to make as much music and joy in my life. All the joy I get from LA can be had in a nice visit or on tour, as it were, before I moved here.

If you're good at what you do, you'll do good anywhere. If you want to get into the industry and make loads of money off of people who actually create music or art by managing them or A&R... you'll fit in perfectly.

and inhale....... that was a mouthful.

[mbradzick]

Originally Posted by gravityminor

I moved to Echo Park in 2002 because Silverlake was too expensive. It's a shame to look at it now. While participating in the "scene" I realized how shitty it really is over there. The musicianship is horrible, haircuts are far more important in this town anyhow. Yea sure, there are some great people making great music. Same goes for Anytown USA. Most people suck or quit before they get good because they really just wanted some hipster pussy and to play with drugs for a while. Or maybe... to be hipster pussy. Who knows.

Problem is, there's no filter here. There are thousands of bands playing all of the time. I've spent plenty of time in Nashville and loads of good music comes out of that place. Loads of bad music too. But the "scene" is smaller for indie rock (since we're talking silverlake/echo park). Look at studios like Battle Tapes in East Nashville. I don't know if Jeremy's on GS but that guy records loads of great stuff there. I've played with so many great local bands on tour that it blows my mind. It really kept us going and having fun.

Ultimately, I've done well to move to LA. I can't say that staying here will help me much more though. The cost of living here is insane. The amount of sh*t you have to wade through to accomplish the smallest task is also insane. The weather is GREAT. I feel weird "dropping out" at 33 years old and moving back to Nashville. But, I'm in this to make as much music and joy in my life. All the joy I get from LA can be had in a nice visit or on tour, as it were, before I moved here.

If you're good at what you do, you'll do good anywhere. If you want to get into the industry and make loads of money off of people who actually create music or art by managing them or A&R... you'll fit in perfectly.

and inhale....... that was a mouthful.

Dude that's every band. Every band has an image. Every band that's made it looks good. Take a serious look at all of your favorite successful bands and just about every member has actor looks. That's cause you have to look like an actor in the MTV/YouTube age. It's petty, yeah, but a fact.

To me LA still has no scene. It's always had its share of bands that'll make it here and there but that's cause bands like 311 will move here from Nebraska, or The Republic Tigers will move here from Kentucky. LA is just a melting pot of transplants, me included. I almost feel silly for heeding the call of the industry but there was NO music scene other than Blues and Country on the border of Texas/New Mexico.

Oh wait, there was Tejano.

[gravityminor]

Originally Posted by Michael Zick

Dude that's every band. Every band has an image. Every band that's made it looks good. Take a serious look at all of your favorite successful bands and just about every member has actor looks. That's cause you have to look like an actor in the MTV/YouTube age. It's petty, yeah, but a fact.

To me LA still has no scene. It's always had its share of bands that'll make it here and there but that's cause bands like 311 will move here from Nebraska, or The Republic Tigers will move here from Kentucky. LA is just a melting pot of transplants, me included. I almost feel silly for heeding the call of the industry but there was NO music scene other than Blues and Country on the border of Texas/New Mexico.

Oh wait, there was Tejano.

I understand appearances are important. Not more important than the music itself. I feel as though some people around these parts might have those priorities reversed.

I hear ya. West Texas has it's strong points too. Look at Tornillo TX. Sonic Ranch is amazing and Tony has loads of great artists out there all of the time. Sounds like your from Clovis or Portales though. Just a guess.

I get your point about wanting to be out here for the amount of work possible. It's true that by comparison, in shear volume, there is so much more to be had work-wise. It makes sense.

I was just voicing my frustrations I suppose. ha

[analoghound]

i think we should all move to peru, somewhere in the mountains and start a scene

[gravityminor]

Originally Posted by analoghound

i think we should all move to peru, somewhere in the mountains and start a scene

I'm in.

[mbradzick]

Originally Posted by gravityminor

Sounds like your from Clovis or Portales though.

LOL! Spent a year in Clovis and three in Portales. I played at Riley's Road House in Odessa/Midland with my Blues/Classic Rock cover band. You been there?

[gravityminor]

Originally Posted by Michael Zick

LOL! Spent a year in Clovis and three in Portales. I played at Riley's Road House in Odessa/Midland with my Blues/Classic Rock cover band. You been there?

ha! Yea. I've been down the 40 in both directions more times than I'd like to admit.

[Solunaris]

Having grown up in the greater L.A. area my whole life I'd say the scene to check out is the jam band scene. The fans are more loyal than any other fans in any other scene going on right now. And the musicians are amongst the best. Check out the benevento russo duo, umphrey's mcgee, les claypool, the disco biscuits, garage a trois, sts9, ween,etc.

[bryancook]

Originally Posted by u b k

without exception, everyone i know who's working out there says they're doing as well, or better, than ever.

this is *not* what i'm hearing around nyc, it's a lot more feast/famine out here and some folks are starting to get uneasy...


gregoire
del
ubk
.

that might be true about NYC and LA. i'm busier than i ever have been here in LA - which is especially confusing given the troubled economy. i've had some NYC bands fly out to mix, too. go figure...

there is a very alive music scene in LA... especially in the echo park/silverlake area... if you like the KCRW (NPR) morning becomes eclectic type of scene... and the indie rock... indie 103.1 kind of thing. and a lot of the KROQ type of bands record and mix here too.

i think the dated hair band rock ala G'N'R is dying a slow death and no one respects it anymore. i think its safe to say that its already dead. although i still strangely find some of it here trying to doggy paddle in the biz... wtf?!?

there's a little bit of everything in LA, from hipster skinny jeans music to hair bands to pop/r&b... and the biz peeps that aren't based here come through here or have an office here. overall, i think its a great place to be a music professional... not to mention you can dabble in film/tv if you need to supplement your record work...

i love it here and don't plan to move anytime soon.

[clarkcontrol]

"Feast or Famine in NYC."

Shoot. Well, I might have to gamble on feast.

NYC definitely has a better dance scene (read: ballet companies, modern companies, theater, dance schools) and I make my day money playing piano for ballet, modern, tap, and jazz classes.

This stuff is (relatively) nonexistant in LA. Didn't the LA ballet have to use 'tracks' with a reduced pit for their Nutcracker last year for budget reasons? NYC doesn't have these problems.

Also jam bands are fairly popular there as well. Rudder is based there, and MetalWood has more ties to NY than LA (I will think of more). I do a lot of that kind of work, even adding freestyle rappers, etc. I agree that the audience loyalty is excellent for that kind of stuff.

I know less about LA, though, so this info about the West Coast scene is gold for me.

Clark