Future Producers....?

[Qor]

Well, I think that you have to start small, but not that small...you gotta crawl before you walk.

True, cracked software and cheap mics may make anyone THINK they can create music, but when you hear the ACTUAL POTENTIAL that comes from the good ones, and see that they actually try, and along the way they get better, and buy legal stuff and upgrade their gear according to their budget, and continue to improve...

Shouldn't they be helped along?

I think that's the solution to all the hullabaloo, not "oh, let's cry them down because they aren't hip to the score" or whatever.

Didn't we all start somewhere? And now we wanna shoot people down?

I'm sure there are a lot of good people on FP, as well as a lot of good ones on GS. There are also a lot of bad apples. The trick is, to find the good ones and help them, let them help us as well.

Straight up.

[theblue1]

In the late 90s and early part of the century, I was doing and listening to a lot of electronica, downtempo, and hip hop influenced stuff and I found myself hanging out some at FP. Mostly, I found myself giving basic info on recording and digital audio, which loses its charm after a while. I didn't find many discussions of music and, unlike me, a lot of the folks who frequented FP in those days were all loop-production oriented, which doesn't offer a lot of fodder for interesting or provocative technical or aesthetic dialogs.

Eventually, I sort of drifted away. (And, some of the trends noted in this thread had already started to take their toll. As a guy whose day job is writing web and database apps, I'm a little touchy about crackware and the like.)

But I have to say that I always thought some of the folks running the place were nice guys, guys like Manuel Clement (Mano, I think his handle is). And knowledgeable, too, in some areas. (I have a book on Flash audio written in part by Clement.)

But, yeah, as I dropped in there over the years, with ever decreasing frequency, the ongoing influx of some folks with an aggressively know-nothing mind set did kind of wear me down. Lots of good folks, too, but, well, you know...

Anyhow, the same trends afflict this forum system, just as they do others.

It's a bit of a pandemic...

[Dean Roddey]

"Cheap alternative to SM58?"

Could have been worse. It could have been "Cheap alternative to SM57?".

True, cracked software and cheap mics may make anyone THINK they can create music, but when you hear the ACTUAL POTENTIAL that comes from the good ones, and see that they actually try, and along the way they get better, and buy legal stuff and upgrade their gear according to their budget, and continue to improve...

Shouldn't they be helped along?

They can use something like Reaper if they want to start out cheap.

[Riv]

Maybe it's just the mood I'm in today, but no, I don't think that they should be helped along at all.

In all honesty, I think that forums like Futureproducers, or even this very forum, are contributing to the death of the art.

I keep hearing about how great the democratization of recording is, but I've never witnessed it firsthand.

My first gig was in a small demo studio in '86. I had come up on 4 track cassette recorders and radio shack microphones. I remember buying my first SM58. In '86 I started working in this small studio with a Tascam 16 track and matching console, sufficient outboard, and an Atari ST for sequencing.

At the time, that was a SUBSTANTIAL outlay of cash. No one, not even the owner, referred to it as anything more than a DEMO studio. We didn't have any pretenses that we were able to compete with the big guys.

Flash ahead 20+ years and I've got a home setup that's as well equipped as most of the pro studios in the area with just about every classic piece of equipment that I've ever wanted.

I would NEVER call it a "professional" studio. Why?

-It's not a professional quality room design
-I don't spend every day running sessions the way that a true pro room does
-I don't pay taxes, maintain the room, and cover all typical business expenses

And many other reasons.

I think telling someone to do a web search to learn engineering is like telling them to use WebMD to learn to do surgery. It's a joke.

We need to return to the old school method of learning - you come up through a real studio, you learn your craft, and until then you have NO RIGHT calling yourself an engineer, a producer, or anything else.

We in this forum, while making some contributions, are equally responsible for killing the art of recording music by encouraging and supporting less qualified and serious individuals.

[9th Ward Records]

They got a topic over there saying Gearslutz sucks.

I posted there for the first time today, looking for a Great River ME-1NV for $800, (shameless plug)

[Odieman]

My favorite Future Producers moment was when someone recommended a SM7 for vocals, and the next two posters said "you mean an sm57, SM7's don't exist" and "You should never use dynamics for vocals".

[voicegenius]

Cheap alternative to SM58 =

[jeremy.c.]

Originally Posted by voicegenius

Cheap alternative to SM58 =

hey man, don't go slammin' my gear!!!






um, btw, how do I plug it in the back of my ProToolz?

[voicegenius]

Originally Posted by olivia_nb

hey man, don't go slammin' my gear!!!






um, btw, how do I plug it in the back of my ProToolz?

you need a platinum-plated XLR...

[Makinithappen]

Originally Posted by Fortman

The ones smart enough over there to follow a clickable link are apparently watching this thread.

Is there anyone that smart over there?

I also hate telling people what I do for a living because of all the pra'doosahs running around. It's really sad when you have to be embarrassed about being successful in the music biz.

[kcsherrell]

Wow! I wish I had the time to go around the internet and find all of these worthless threads and read them! But, if I did have that kind of time on my hands, I would probably spend it making music!

Is this High School?

Just wondering?

[Makinithappen]

I would think you probably wouldn't be speaking to me like that if you were standing here in front of me. Do you cuss like that in front of your mother?

I'll tell you one thing, though... I don't have time to fight with a snotty kid on the internet.

[jeremy.c.]

Originally Posted by Makinithappen

I would think you probably wouldn't be speaking to me like that if you were standing here in front of me. Do you cuss like that in front of your mother?

I'll tell you one thing, though... I don't have time to fight with a snotty kid on the internet.

15 and bored for the summer in the 'burbs. not a pretty combination.

[sinicalmicmusic]

ah i love this place. this site has helped me waaaay more than fp ever could. ask a question like "my kick sounds like crap how do i make it sound good?" here and you WILL get a foot in your ass. and im glad too. this brutal honesty is actually helping change the low standard most new people take too long to realize. everyones standards are always being challenged weather they see it or not so its nice to come to a place where its out in the open.

every site is gonna have those dumb ass questions this place being no exception. this place just knows how to handle it better.

everyone starts out not knowing much about audio. 99.9999 percent take too long to figure out how to educate them self properly. thats the problem. this is actually the problem with all fields.

[akai96]

High school. both GS and FP.

[akai96]

I thought GS is for Engineers or people inspiring to be one,and FP for Producers/Programmers/?

[RockManDan]

it is true that you can't teach innate talent. But talking crap about people who DO have very learned and honed skills with certain types of gear just reeks of youthfull hubris and arrogance. Yea there is a certain amount of snobbery in all levels of pro audio. I personally don't feel like i NEED analog tape to sound good, but many people do and I respect that, maybe their ears are just more in tune with it than mine are. And if some 50 yr old engineer gives me crap about preferring SONAR, ill take it in stride and understand that we all have our preferences, but I would never criticize a more experienced professional. I would never assume that his disdain for my lesser-honed techniques was based out of jealousy of my 'innate talent'. I might THINK i can get the same results out of a mackie and some MXL mics, and maybe I can, but I am certainly open to the idea that there is a reason certain people are considered teh best in the business, and using my own arrogance and inflated sense of self-importance as an excuse to bypass real hard learning and training is just asinine.

Its like some street kid who is tall and can dunk a basketball thinking he can rule in the NBA. Sure, he might have a God-Given ability to jump high and run fast, but you need to learn a lot more about strategy and the mechanics of basketball before you can be a real pro. If you see some shorter, older player calling you on your attitude, dont assume he's jealous of your height and muscles. He just may have 30 years experience learning the hard way and is irritated that you think you know it all.

youth is wasted on the young. I say this as a 26 year old.

[MonoBrow]

This thread delivers to the max!

[Yago]

I got a plug-in for you .....
Zzzzaap

[Yago]

:P lol

[MonoBrow]

Originally Posted by Yago

:P lol

! agree.

[Dean Roddey]

To be fair to him, I kind of liked those tunes. They aren't going to set the world on fire or anything, and the production is very rough, but I kind of liked the ones I listened to. You can't really judge them by 70s rock standards or anything. I think that the first one would have been better if he could have worked 'muhfukka' into it about 40 more times :-) And I don't think I'll be tossing out my Cee-lo CDs or anything.

[BlueGoldKeys]

I am registered to both sites and i feel like FP is like im hanging out on the block kicking it (brooklyn) and GS feels like im in a college Economics class. Same topic, two very different conversations. Quite frankly, i would choose the economic class every and anyday.

People think they can just buy an mbox and be the next hit producer. I USED to fall into that category. Most of the guys i used to "work" with seldom read up on their stuff and think they can make "something crack" in half an hour.
These forum sites have a wealth of information. Its your job to find them and piece it together. For the past 3 years i have stayed up till 3 or 4 in the morning just reading ( as you can see by the time of this post). I kid you not. Like i just couldnt sleep, THERES JUST TOO MUCH TO LEARN. I feel like i dont even have to sleep and i would just research more and more. I think its not really necessary to go to audio school if you have the drive yourself and have a good internship.

IDK..I must be going crazy but theres this chill i get when i hear a great mix. It makes me more appreciative of the music despite what genre it is. Even mixing ITB would require quality converters, monitors, cables and a good room. this is why i think Soldier Boy is crap and young kids minds are polluted and only want a quick dance beat.

The reason i think guys charge 15 bucks and hour for their minuscule settups is because they are lazy. They dont want to take the time to UNDERSTAND how gear really works. I have an mbox settup but i use it just to get quick with protools. My dad friend has a major setup and would let me engineer his large sessions. But its not enough

I would trade that all for an actual internship at a profesional studio. My dream is not to sit behind a big board pushing nobs. It is to one day have a mix that i created and be able to compare it to Tony and Dave. I think thats what seperates the boys from the men.

Thats where the 15 dollar and hour guy falls short. If he truly wanted to be a producer or engineer, he would invest the time, hard work, and sweat (yes this sh!t will make you sweat) to MASTER his craft and not just scrape the surface

Just my 2 cents. Well more like 15 bucks

[Makinithappen]

Originally Posted by sinicalmicmusic

should i make this post big and red to save you time?

[Makinithappen]

Im sitting here waiting for stuff to transfer from DVD with a rapper here right beside me and he's never heard that term either. Learn to speak English if you want people to understand what you're saying.

And what makes you think all audio professions revolve around an Urban (capitalized for some reason) market?

[jeremy.c.]

Originally Posted by Fortman

Failed.

Self humiliation? - Success!

I wanted to point out the same irony, but I couldn't be arsed to keep going back and forth.

[Makinithappen]

Originally Posted by olivia_nb

That's why it sounds like we're baiting you into sounding like a ******.

By the way... I hate when regular posters change avatars... I was just getting used to the other one and then BAM! eyepatch-hotdog guy.

[jeremy.c.]

Originally Posted by Makinithappen

By the way... I hate when regular posters change avatars... I was just getting used to the other one and then BAM! eyepatch-hotdog guy.

sorry, I was having a fit of indecisiveness combined with inspiration. I'll try to stick to the diabolical hotdog for a minute...

[Jax]

I think ONB's music is pretty cool.

Don't be pulled into arguing with a negative turd or some of it will rub off on you.

[jeremy.c.]

Originally Posted by Jax

I think ONB's music is pretty cool.

Don't be pulled into arguing with a negative turd or some of it will rub off on you.

Thanks man. You're right, I need to drink some coffee and self edit.