I'm tired of Santana interloping on everything

[Kyle Ashley]

Did anyone see Santana on the Oscar telecast? He jammed with Antonio Banderas on some movie track, and he proceeded to noodle and doodle lame fills between every line.

Same old tired licks over and over. I used to appreciate some of his work, but he's really become annoying and he brings nothing to the tracks he inserts himself on.

Carlos if you read this....please get a clue. Listen to someone besides yourself once in awhile. You might pick up some new licks and ideas...

[De chromium cob]

Thats really bad when Antonio Banderas isn't the most annoying part of a musical duo....

[Jose Mrochek]

As far as I undertand, the producer would not let the original songwriter sing the song.. and thought that Banderas would be more appropiate for his celebrity status. that's why when the guy won the Oscar and he sang part of it in his speech.

apparently the song is very good, but it sucked with santana and banderas.

[alphajerk]

well it lest beyonce didnt try to weasel her way into a FOUTH song on the show, my god. she put a man to sleep right before he was up for an award caught on camera. was she the only available singer that night?!?

santana wasnt the worst part of that show... possibly one of the most boring shows i have seen in my life.

[Kyle Ashley]

alpha,

that's true...the whole thing was a snooze.

[Bob Olhsson]

Carlos is a superstar in most of the Spanish speaking world. They probably offered him big big bucks to do the show and he happily accepted them.

[Jose Mrochek]

I always wondered why santana became a big guitar name. I never liked his playing. Except of the fact that he has "his sound" which I respect him for that, other than that.. he never moved me.

[Bob Olhsson]

Carlos was the first rock star who flaunted rather than played down his Latin identity. He turned a whole bunch of people on to the possibilities of Latin music.

[Jose Mrochek]

Originally posted by Bob Olhsson
Carlos was the first rock star who flaunted rather than played down his Latin identity. He turned a whole bunch of people on to the possibilities of Latin music.

As always you make a great point Bob. I'm not saying he is a bad musician, but I never really understood his thing.

[doorknocker]

Listen to 'Caravanserai'.

Andi

www.doorknocker.ch

[wwittman]

I lost interest sometime shortly after Woodstock.

[Ruphus]

Throwing stones in distance of time is easy.
C´mon, don´t trash the old albums, there has been moody and catchy stuff on them.
Can anyone deny?

--

BTW, moody stuff of the past; anybody here heard of Triatma?

Ruphus

[Oldone]

In case you missed it, the whole show was going for a broad international audience under the cover of cultural diversity.

Beyonce, Morgan, Samuel, Halle, Jamie and Oprah covered the black audience appeal.

Antonio, Carlos, Selma covered the Hispanic audience.

Clint and Hillary covered middle class white America

All of the old guys covered the Jewish contingent

The lady who won for playing Katherine Hepburn covered the English fans

Tom Cruises girlfriend coverd the Italians.

The real underdogs were the Asians and Middle Eastern people. Nobody remotely Asian won an award.

I agree, Carlos was lame. He walked all over the verses. Lead guitar should fill in the holes of a song, not spill out all over them.

[John Hedger]

I can't believe there's a thread here dissing Carlos Santana! He has to be one of the most creative and original talents to ever play electric guitar. Perhaps his Oscar performance wasn't brilliant, but his past accomplishments speak for themselves. Santana's intro solo on Black Magic Woman still gives me chills everytime I hear it on the radio.

While we're at it, why don't we get on Steve Winwood's case for singing with too much soul ??!!

John Hedger

[Kyle Ashley]

John,

Carlos' past accomplishments are fine and he may be a very nice man for all I know.

Not trying to dis him personally or his past accomplishments, but his licks have become tired and extremely repetitive. The Oscars thing was just poorly done.

They could have used a nylon string for the accents they were going for and it would have complimented the vibe of the song much better than his electric work.

In any event, nothing to lose any sleep over. I'll still enjoy the Santana stuff that I enjoy, and try to avoid the stuff I don't.

[Oldone]

Originally posted by Kyle Ashley
John,

Carlos' past accomplishments are fine and he may be a very nice man for all I know.

Not trying to dis him personally or his past accomplishments, but his licks have become tired and extremely repetitive. The Oscars thing was just poorly done.

They could have used a nylon string for the accents they were going for and it would have complimented the vibe of the song much better than his electric work.

In any event, nothing to lose any sleep over. I'll still enjoy the Santana stuff that I enjoy, and try to avoid the stuff I don't.

I agree, nylon guitar was much in order.

[Sounds Great]

Originally posted by John Hedger
I can't believe there's a thread here dissing Carlos Santana! He has to be one of the most creative and original talents to ever play electric guitar. Perhaps his Oscar performance wasn't brilliant, but his past accomplishments speak for themselves. Santana's intro solo on Black Magic Woman still gives me chills everytime I hear it on the radio.

I think you miss the point. At one time Santana was the man. The era you speak of had some mighty fine stuff by Santana, but he was always part of a group. The drums, keyboards, vocals, etc. on those albums were awesome, he was surrounded by the best, and they made music together.

Now, he just seems to slap his solo on top of whatever the latest act is. And, as I have been saying for quite a while now, he keeps playing the same solo over and over. I can't tell one from the next anymore, they all sound the same.

[Sharp11]

Originally posted by Kyle Ashley
John,


Not trying to dis him personally or his past accomplishments, but his licks have become tired and extremely repetitive. The Oscars thing was just poorly done.

The worst part for me, was his complete disregard for the song's chord changes; he found a scale and stayed with it, regardless of the chords.

I hate that, Eddie van Halen and SRV used to do that, drove me nuts.....

Ed

[doorknocker]

Originally posted by Sharp11
The worst part for me, was his complete disregard for the song's chord changes; he found a scale and stayed with it, regardless of the chords.
I hate that, Eddie van Halen and SRV used to do that, drove me nuts.....
Ed

This is getting ridiculous here! Van Halen's thing was all IN the chords while SRVs style was a blender of every great blues player done with his own unmistakable stamp and soul.

I agree that Carlos has put out some lame stuff recently but I always had a sweet spot for him. I discovered his stuff at a very early age and it led me to John Mc Laughlin, Miles, etc (I'm still a rock and roll player though).

Carlos has always sported a hippie mentality that's utterly free from irony and sarcasm. By keeping that attitude but having become a part of the corporate big time we unfortunately get some strange results. (Sarcastic money machine pop act joined by the keeper of the cosmic modal flame).

Anybody remember that Zappa ditty on 'Shut up and play your guitar' called 'The Carlos Santana Secret Chord Progression'? Yes, he sure has milked that Dorian Im-V thing but over the years he also has put down some of the most memorable and melodic guitar stuff in rock: 'Incident at Neshabur' ,'Song of the wind', 'Black Magic Woman' 'Flame Sky' and many more.....

If only for putting out 'Abraxas', 'Santana III' and 'Caravanserai' he always will be high on my list.
And yes, back in the day, that first band was a total killer, so tight and elegant and grooving beside all those sloppy and pedestrian 'you-gotta-be-stoned-to-get-it' bands like the Grateful Dead.


Andi

www.doorknocker.ch

[John Hedger]

Originally posted by Kyle Ashley
Carlos if you read this....please get a clue. Listen to someone besides yourself once in awhile. You might pick up some new licks and ideas...

I'm curious. Who would you suggest Carlos to listen to for inspiration? What guitarist of today would give the tired and old Carlos Santana a schoolin'?

[Exmun]

Or how about having Carlos switch to a clean electric sound during the verses? It was very over the top in a bad way with his electric stepping all over Antonio's lead lines like that. I actually found Antonio decent, though I think I would have enjoyed the singer/songwriter a bit more.

[Jose Mrochek]

Originally posted by John Hedger
I'm curious. Who would you suggest Carlos to listen to for inspiration? What guitarist of today would give the tired and old Carlos Santana a schoolin'?

I guess he is not to "of today" but, rather modern compared to Santana.. I think , he should listen to "the edge".

Santana doesn't undertand that a guitar has to support a song, not the other way around. When Santana plays on any song, of the "collaborations" he has been doing, the song instantly becomes a santana song.. because he plays on un-called for places.

[David R.]

Saw him live a number of years ago. Free concert in Golden Gate Park in SF, he was a surprise guest for John Lee Hooker.

He stepped on stage and played this incredible opening note - it soared, it swooned, lasted for 5 or 10 seconds...I could completely understand why he is a guitar god. Everything after that was mediocre.

What he played at the Oscars was a textbook example of what you should not play at the Oscars. Actually, it could have worked if 75% of it were edited out.

IMHO, of course.

[Kyle Ashley]

John,

I don't have any recomendations for who he should listen to...all I know is that for the last few years he keeps playing the same solo over and over and over and over regardless of the song.

It doesn't even have to be guitar players...miles, coltrane, even yo yo ma, can provide new phrasing ideas to inspire new licks.

I'm sorry to offend you so deeply. I grew up listening to zep in the 70s and Jimmy Page was an inspiration to me. I'd also be the first to say that he's had some horrible live moments such as Live Aid and the Atlantic 40th, but he isn't showing up to appear on every hip new artist's CD and playing the solo to Heartbreaker on everything.

[John Hedger]

Originally posted by Jose Mrochek
I think , he should listen to "the edge".

I give up. This is a hopeless cause. The Edge isn't even a pimple on Santana's left butt cheek.

Kyle, You have not offended me deeply. I'm just shocked that somebody is dissing Santana of all people. While Carlos Santana may not be a perfect musician.. he may be guilty of preaching his philosophy of peace, love, & harmony at his concerts ad nauseum... while he may somewhat rely on the Ricky Martin's of the world to help keep him in the spotlight because he doesn't sing... Santana is an artist on guitar! If he never recorded a note after Abraxas Carlos would still have forgotten more than a player like "the edge" ever knew. And you don't think Carlos has ever listened to Miles or Coltrane?? The man played and recorded with Mahavishnu John McLaughlin! Get a clue and have some respect. I guess Santana has to die now before anyone appreciates his artistry. While I haven't been an avid follower these days I do have tremendous respect for the man.

Now Santana is suddenly appearing everywhere and with everyone playing that same damed solo, right?? I just don't see it... I need to hear recorded examples. He does have his own style which includes certain "signature" licks that are at times repeated. However, one has to understand...That is a blues tradition that goes way back.

Now that we've dissed "over the hill" Carlos...Why don't we all begin ragging on Stevie Wonder?? or John Fogerty perhaps?? Are they measuring up these days?

JHedger

[Sharp11]

Originally posted by John Hedger
or John Fogerty perhaps?? Are they measuring up these days?

JHedger

Actually, he sounds better than ever

Ed

[Ruphus]

Originally posted by Sharp11
Actually, he sounds better than ever

Ed

That´s what a guy in a magazine somewhere said when Fogarty´s first solo album came out some years ago. I went and bought it, but it had nothing to it to put the disk on again since.*

Nothing remotely close to the great old CCR stuff.
What immortal music that has been!

Ruphus

* The same happened with Neil Young records. Great murmuring about some later records that are now gathering dust in my shelf since years.

Hey even J.J. Cale after 8 unique, incredibly versatile and refreshing albums couldn´t regain on the rest of his releases.
Maybe humans resources are more or less limited, yet, former ingenuity won´t ever lose value. No matter what fashion says.

We have had decades with "must be new / other"-priority and we have seen what came out from just that criteria alone.

Not to say that I wouldn´t had wellcomed if outstanding artists would be pulling out endlessly, but if they get slower instead one day they should still be respected. ( I agree however that Santana could search for some new licks, or at least adapt to the songs.)

[Sharp11]

Originally Posted by Ruphus

Nothing remotely close to the great old CCR stuff.
What immortal music that has been!

Ruphus

Old Creedence was part of my adolescence in the late 60's early 70's, so I'm with ya there.

My reference to Fogarty's sounding "better than ever" is based on seeing him on tv a couple of times over the last three years or so. I've never heard the new records, so, no comment, but he can still play and sing and do a great show.

Carlos, on the other hand, seems to have grown lazy in his middle age.

Ed