Web site issues

[Blackwater]

I just finished a project for a guy who bartered with me for a website.

I know nothing about websites and what he has passed on to me doesn't quite float my boat. Not sure why but it doesn't. Maybe you guys could give some suggestions as to how to make it better. I like the idea but need it fine tuned. I think the flashing pic's are lame. Well I like the idea but 2 pics flashing over and over?? I've shown him websites that look good to me and what I am looking for but maybe he doesn't have the knowledge to do what looks good to me.

Any ideas would be great. Where do I find some cool things that I see on other sites and how do I apply them to mine.


http://personalpages.tds.net/~westerman/


Thanks for the bitch time,


Chris

[Jules]

These links are dead

Recording Equipment
Artists
Other

They dont clic thru to anywhere

I dont see any flashing pictures on my mac (Safari)

Just static pictures

Be sure to check it on a mac too before signing off on it!

[Blackwater]

Thanks guys, I appreciate your input.
He's working on the columns right now.
Just got off the phone with him.

Jules, you are right. They haven't been hooked up yet. He was waiting for approval on the basic layout from me and I said " wait - I'm going to get some feedback before you go too far"
I'll check it on my Mac when I get back to the studio.

Any ideas for "spicing it up"??

Chris

[StoneinaPond]

Originally posted by Blackwater


Any ideas for "spicing it up"??

Chris

You would most probably need a better designer. The whole thing is a bit static and "amateurish."

Also, the written content is stylistically very poor. Doesn't pull me in. Not very focused.

If you want a simple rewrite, I could do that. But I don't know how much that will improve the overall feel of your site.

And the two flashing pictures.....

Well, I'm sure you have heard enough.

PM me if you want a rewrite. I'll do that page for free. Maybe that will help you with further copy. And don’t worry. I’m not touting for work. I’ve got plenty already. It just won’t take me too long.

[Ol' Betsey]

Heya Blackwater,

Studio looks nice and comfy. As in warm and welcoming.

Something about a real piano too.

If you could focus on the 'content' side and bring those aspects out it would be nice.

Simple=effective.

I do however think the two 'people' pictures you've used are, well, being polite, kinda poor choices. A little too advertising 'library' if you know what I mean?

You'll get there though. Just think of it as a rough mix.

R.

[Blackwater]

Thanks R.

I will try, with some help, to be more content focused.


All of these are great ideas. Seems like the basic view is "amateurish site" and I'm not sure how to let the man know that or if I even should. Might have gotten a bit taken here. But, my fault for not checking out previous work he did.

Chris

[bassmac]

Originally posted by Blackwater
...my fault for not checking out previous work he did.

You got it, and no amount of suggestions are going to turn him into a pro web designer.

If you want something more pro looking, you should hire a pro, and settle the barter another way.

[Ol' Betsey]

Well 'taken' is a pretty strong word. And being particularly hard yourself to boot.

Who knows, maybe the guy just THINKS he knows what he's doing? We see it enough the audio world, don't we?

Nice to see people offering to help you out though (respect to Stone).

Good luck,

R.

[alphajerk]

its an amateur site. kid has no design skills... id look elsewhere or since you already made your end of the bargain, make him WORK for it... put him through hell. look at sites you like and say "i want mine to look like this", if he has HALF a brain, he could rip off expamples and maybe improve what he knows in the process.

[Blackwater]

well--

I expressed to the man last night all of the concerns raised in this thread and he came up with a good amount of lamish answers including "only 3% of internet users are mac users".
He DID try to give me different font options on the ABOUT US page and broke up the blob into paragraphs and got rid of the blinking pics, but I am definitely looking for a designer today.
can anyone suggest some names ???

Thanks,

Chris

[alphajerk]

i do web design professionally. been doing it since you had to hand code the pages long before all these wysiwyg editors... using the lame excuse of MAC users is absolutely ********. im on a PC right now, looked at the page on a PC and it still doesnt change the amateur design. in fact, PROFESSIONAL design looks the same on ANY platform [or as close as one can make it]

im not fishing for a job here. god knows im growing tired of web design and have been focusing more on print design lately but if you would like to see my shitty site, its http://www.procreatemultimedia.com but i must think that where you are located, there must be some good designers to work one on one with instead of telecommuncating with [one of the reasons why i am moving out of doing this so i can work in person with clients]. but i extend any advice or questions you might have about this. if you find some firms in your area and want to run them by me, id be happy to look at their work for you.

id also like to say, its how much you spend but i have also seen people taken heavily by inflated rates over talent in the design world... so be cautious. look at portfolios of thier work.

[dingo]

I was going to say keep on with this guy, hound him for exactly what you're after. If he's interested in doing this work, maybe you'd get what you want in the end, maybe he'd get some experience. But that bit about only 3% are mac users.. ****ing lame. And I don't even like mac's. He doesn't want to do the work.

One suggestion I would make to you, whomever you decide to go with for the design: you know what makes your joint stand out from the rest, you know what makes it special, you know the vibe, you know the details... now show me. If your site doesn't convey that vibe, that special whatever.. then it's no good. Sounds obvious, but there are way more sites that get it wrong than get it right.

[alphajerk]

Originally posted by dingo
One suggestion I would make to you, whomever you decide to go with for the design: you know what makes your joint stand out from the rest, you know what makes it special, you know the vibe, you know the details... now show me. If your site doesn't convey that vibe, that special whatever.. then it's no good. Sounds obvious, but there are way more sites that get it wrong than get it right.

very good point. i find it odd that my clients fail to be able to communicate this or even think about this... often me having to go experiece this for myself [the vibe] in order to get it across. but i do hound the clients for this before even THINKING about designing something for them.

[Tim Farrant]

I don't see any flashing pictures either, using Netscape 7.2 on PC.

[Blackwater]

Hi,
After giving him your feedback he removed the flashing pic's. I will post his replies but it seems useless as I have realized that he knows not a lot about web design.
Here ya go:

Hi Kenny,
>
> It's a place to start I guess.
>
> Here are a few thoughts from others I have shown it to:
>
> 1)
> One very simple thing that annoys me a little is how the table's are set
up. They seem to be set up to encompass a % of the browser window - meaning
the page will expand and contract if you change the width of your browser.
You don't see that on pro or comercial sites. It looks a bit amatuerish.

Kenny:
"I set the tables to 750, though it's recommended to use percentages to
accommodate different browser resolutions."
>
> ...break the text out into paragraphs. That's one big blob in "about
us"...makes it tough to read.

Kenny:
"I broke up the paragraph. I think you said you need to edit this because
some of the material is out-dated."


> The tables should be set to a fixed width. I think between 725 - 750
pixels is pretty standard. The flashing pictures might make more sense if they were changing images -
but not a single image fading in and out. It's motion for the simple sake of
motion, and really contributes nothing to the site. I would get rid of that
unless it's going to switch to a bunch of different shots.

Kenny:
"I took out the pics which I chose at random - you'd probably want to use
some from the studio. I've seen some javascripts that can rotate pics. I
can try it if you want."

>
> I'm not sure I like the Font too much and not crazy about the empty space
at the bottom of the page. Not sure I like the overlay either but will have
to look at it some more.


Kenny:
"Overlay? Not sure what you mean.

Just trying to find a format you like - we can fill empty spaces with
anything you like. I've got five different fonts in the "About Us" page.
Any of these appeal to you?"


> 2)
> I dont see any flashing pictures on my mac (Safari)


Kenny:
"See if the pics are still static on Safari for this test page:
http://personalpages.tds.net/~westerman/index_test.htm

I added some html code that may address the browser compatibility problem,
but I doubt it'll work."

>
> Just static pictures
>
> Be sure to check it on a mac too!
>

Kenny:
"Mac users make up about 3% of the internet, so it may be kind of tricky
finding animated scripts that perform on all browsers. You're the only Mac
user I know, so if I design something you'll have to let me know if it works
on Safari."

> 3)
> The 2 flashing pics are off alignment both horizontally and vertically,
and change relative position depending on the width of the users browser
window. Using fixed width tables and specifying horizontal and vertical
alignment within the cells would help...

> 4)
>
> I do however think the two 'people' pictures you've used are, well, being
polite, kinda poor choices. A little too advertising 'library' if you know
what I mean?


Kenny:
"Removed the pics for now - can replace them with proper alignment. But
still have the problem with the script not running on Safari. May have to
scratch that idea."

> You'll get there though. Just think of it as a rough mix.
>
> What do you think about these ideas Kenny?

Kenny:
"Good a start as any."

Looking up designers as I reply.
Thanks for all the opinions and help.
I will chalk it up to being too busy to check out the guys s*** and too lazy to explore my options.

Thanks,

Chris

[alphajerk]

Originally posted by Blackwater
> 1)
> One very simple thing that annoys me a little is how the table's are set
up. They seem to be set up to encompass a % of the browser window - meaning
the page will expand and contract if you change the width of your browser.
You don't see that on pro or comercial sites. It looks a bit amatuerish.

actually, this is the number one request from clients... and creating a floating page can be difficult if not properly designed but beautiful if done right.

the reason 750 [actaully its 765, 10pix for the scroll bar and 5pix for the browser window edges] is due to people still using a 800x600 screen resolution. something that is becoming less of an issue, and to some extent starting to become an ignored part of the viewership... 1024 is now starting to take hold as the minimum [so 1010 width can be used], but this entirely depends on the business and their clientele as to the LCD you want to design for.

also by using fixed widths, the layout becomes far more stable than with floating pages. its a give and take... but pretty much all of HTML is give and take.


another thing i noticed in that email exchange... get all your text together before the design, or set aside funds for a writer to write it for you. also, make available any and all pictures with preferences of what you want to show on the site. text is the most important thing, and the one thing that holds up designs more than anything. a lot of times i will use 'lorem ipsum dolor...' jabberwocky to indicate text lengths needed and how they will look in the layout if the client is behind on this and has the pictures together.

preperation is everything when doing websites but at least they remain organic with the easy ability to change upon will [still deciding if this is good or bad]