Why most recording engineers suck...

[Neon Heart]

Originally Posted by nickolo

Good study and proper experience is all good...but those magic engineering making schools are in tha $$$$$ EH??
But i have nothing against certain media-film-sound degree courses etc....

In Germany (where I live) are 3 respected and highly recommended unis that offer these kinds of studies. it actually doesn't cost anything (now it does but only the usual 750 Euros per semester that all unis demand now). they take only few students per year so in order to qualify you have to pass entrance exams (playing an instrument, aural training exam, basic theoretical exam) and in the second round you have an interview and also have to hand them out examples of your past work. if you pass, you can start studying.

still that doesn't necessarily mean that all absolvants will become good engineers but they do already get insight into the business and have to part time work in that field. no magic at all!

[doorknocker]

About 7 or 8 years ago I was involved in a horrible recording project in Germany, basically a 'manager pays for everything but calls the shots' type 'o deal. We were forced to work with an 'engineer' that DIDN'T KNOW WHAT A 57 WAS and had absolutely no clue about recording at all. It was unbeliavable and needless to say, the recordings sucked TOTAL ass but the whole experience was a big reason for me to get into recording and producing myself.

Later on I did a web search on the guy and found out that he was holding 'guest lectures' in audio recording at a German university. I almost feel out of my chair and I generally became extremely cautious with all things 'audio school' and the like after that.

[AntillesSound]

I think everyone is giving audio schools a bad rap. Its not the lack of good training that is happening at these facilities, but the lack of passion in the kids who attend. Having earned a bachelors in applied science of sound arts from an engineering school, I can tell you first hand that 80% of the people I went to school with didn't really have their heart in it. They didn't live it, breathe it, dream it, eat it, etc., like they should. And all of us who are doing well, or at least making the best of things, can tell you that that is what it takes.
I'd also like to note, that alot of the students think they are complete hot shots while still in school and are oblivious to golden nuggets of information from their peers, "elders", etc because they obviously know it all. So, please don't hate on all of these schools. They guys who talk shit are the guys who didn't make the best of their time. And honestly, places like SAE, Expression, Full Sail, etc., are often just an alternative for kids who couldn't get into real colleges and think that doing this "sounds cool" or will "make them a ton of cash."

[Sigma]

Originally Posted by Karloff70

Wow, Sigma, you got totally involved.......surprised you took this seriously enough to type that much.....

i was bored..did double sessions all week and now on my day off i'm rammey..ya just can't win!!!!

i think engineering is like "the deadlest catch" ...when the crusteacans are "in season" and biting ..ya work till ya drop..then yer off and ya get bored or in trouble..i'm too old to get in trouble so i get bored

[Karloff70]

Originally Posted by Sigma

i was bored..did double sessions all week and now on my day off i'm rammey..ya just can't win!!!!

i think engineering is like "the deadlest catch" ...when the crusteacans are "in season" and biting ..ya work till ya drop..then yer off and ya get bored or in trouble..i'm too old to get in trouble so i get bored

LOL......shiftwork for the fiendish......I don't know if I get the impression that you're too old to get in trouble though, somehow.....watch out with that boredom, boredom makes people blind I've heard

[James Meeker]

Normally I avoid these types of threads because nothing good can come out of them. Spending too much time around an idiot can blow up in your face and make you look as idiotic if you don't know when to stop. I'll concede the OP has some points, however they are completely invalid as soon as you get to know a little bit about him and consider the source....

So I just visited his [my God this is bad] MySpace.... WOW. It actually takes genius degrees of anti-talent to get music to sound this bad. [How do you get guitar to sound that thin??? It's like Kate Moss on a diet.] Hopefully this isn't the sound of "living and breathing metal." [Did he crib his lyrics from auditing a philosophy 101 class?]

[Jesus that reverb on the lead guitar is wretched....]

I know the type though. Self-important, self-hating, preachy "perfectionists" that wonder why nobody wants to work with them. It doesn't suprise me he's looking for a band. Can you imagine the looks on their faces when they audition for dude and he lays this stuff on them? The lyrics alone are going to send the average person running for the door.

[There goes the argument that anyone can crack some software and make a great record on their home computer.]

Here's a general rule of thumb about people--if you treat them like crap they're not going to like you. If they don't like you they're not going to help you out. This is also true for engineers... maybe more so.

[Did he just actually refer to himself as "God?"]

Myself, I'm professional. If someone is rude to me I'll stop the session and never work with them again. That's because I have self respect and the wisdom to know that the money isn't going to be worth it, and the project isn't going to be any good because of the personal relationship. Most guys are going to take the money and NOT CARE about your project. Heck, I've seen some engineers purposely let a jerk's record suck out of spite.

[Man, this guy has more excuses and whines than a college freshman majoring in performance art and coffee house philosophy.]

If you throw out nothing but negativity, expect to get it back by the truckload. Especially if you try to act like you're educated and smart while doing it.

[Mr.HOLMES]

Well written James...

[malice]

Originally Posted by James Meeker

So I just visited his [my God this is bad] MySpace.... WOW. It actually takes genius degrees of anti-talent to get music to sound this bad. [How do you get guitar to sound that thin??? It's like Kate Moss on a diet.] Hopefully this isn't the sound of "living and breathing metal." [Did he crib his lyrics from auditing a philosophy 101 class?]

[Jesus that reverb on the lead guitar is wretched....]

I know the type though. Self-important, self-hating, preachy "perfectionists" that wonder why nobody wants to work with them. It doesn't suprise me he's looking for a band. Can you imagine the looks on their faces when they audition for dude and he lays this stuff on them? The lyrics alone had me rolling my eyes in circles.

[There goes the argument that anyone can crack some software and make a great record on their home computer.]

Here's a general rule of thumb about people--if you treat them like crap they're not going to like you. If they don't like you they're not going to help you out. This is also true for engineers... maybe more so.

[Did he just actually refer to himself as "God?"]

Myself, I'm professional. If someone is rude to me I'll stop the session and never work with them again. That's because I have self respect and the wisdom to know that the money isn't going to be worth it, and the project isn't going to be any good because of the personal relationship. Most guys are going to take the money and NOT CARE about your project. Heck, I've seen some engineers purposely let a jerk's record suck out of spite.

[Man, this guy has more excuses and whines than a college freshman majoring in performance art and coffee house philosophy.]

If you throw out nothing but negativity, expect to get it back by the truckload. Especially if you try to act like you're educated and smart while doing it.

Link, please,

I mean, there are many Blackened myspaces ( dude, try to learn how to pick a moniker already). Although they all sucks, I'm curious now.

I'm bored today, I was wondering about trolling his place in order to pay back my respects and shit.



malice

[blackened]

I stand behind everything I have said. It surprises me not one bit that most of the losers on this forum have quickly jumped on the opportunity to attack my band. I made no effort to hide who I am or the name of my band. At the time however, that was irrelevant, but apparently now it is relevant. That is a typical reaction that I would expect from a recording engineer... to decide they don't like somebody's views or music and just sabotage their art.

What has gone on in this forum is a testament to the kind of spiteful, spinless, talentless engineers there are out there. And by the way, I am an engineer and work as an engineer at one of the top studios in Texas. I sit down in front of SSL every day brother, so don't pull some bullshit on me. I see this kind of treatment all the time from other studios and engineers. The only reason my clients trust me is because i'm a veteran metal player and they know I have good ears.

As a certain poster said, there are many less than 100 people in the whole world that can claim they are "top notch." The rest of you (us) are all wannabe's until proven otherwise. I will even admit that sometimes I throw my hands up in the air... But I will tell you this, I treat my clients with more respect than most of you have treated my argument. I have every right to state my opinion from my experience.

And by the way, our music is badass, and if someone wants to come to a Blackened Heart show and say some shit to my face, then we will see who is a badass.

[Robert Randolph]

epic thread is epic.

[RonCarlston]

Come on guys. Reminds me of when george carlin said


"We got some dumb-ass mother ****ers in this country.....ofcourse that doesint include anyone in THIS audience"


Just assume he wasent referring to any of you. In my experience, almost every engineer ive met (i admit, i havent spent time with the best, I ADMIT IT) FALL into the category hes talking about. I.E A lot of the local studios, graduates from recording schools, guitar center pro audio employees...

Ive spent some time with a producer here in arizona...im not going to name names but hes worked with DMX and Patsy Klein (seems to young, but its in his credits non the less)...and im telling you , the dude puts no thought into what hes doing engineering wise..just sits back in the control room and talks shit about the band while running the mics through some expensive gear and calling it a day.


Thread starter should have been careful not to generalize so much, but a lot of us who dont have the connections that some of you people do, experience this all the time.


You understand, i know you do. How many people here write reviews on gear they havent used, or give out all kinds of advice and praise when they themselves dont really have any AMAZING work to back up the knowledge they give out (lurkers would probobly assume that they do, and take the advice...thats just how people are).

[jchadstopherhuez]

wow.

just....wow.

best,

jchristopherhughes

[AntillesSound]

Originally Posted by blackened

I stand behind everything I have said. It surprises me not one bit that most of the losers on this forum have quickly jumped on the opportunity to attack my band. I made no effort to hide who I am or the name of my band. At the time however, that was irrelevant, but apparently now it is relevant. That is a typical reaction that I would expect from a recording engineer... to decide they don't like somebody's views or music and just sabotage their art.

What has gone on in this forum is a testament to the kind of spiteful, spinless, talentless engineers there are out there. And by the way, I am an engineer and work as an engineer at one of the top studios in Texas. I sit down in front of SSL every day brother, so don't pull some bullshit on me. I see this kind of treatment all the time from other studios and engineers. The only reason my clients trust me is because i'm a veteran metal player and they know I have good ears.

As a certain poster said, there are many less than 100 people in the whole world that can claim they are "top notch." The rest of you (us) are all wannabe's until proven otherwise. I will even admit that sometimes I throw my hands up in the air... But I will tell you this, I treat my clients with more respect than most of you have treated my argument. I have every right to state my opinion from my experience.

And by the way, our music is badass, and if someone wants to come to a Blackened Heart show and say some shit to my face, then we will see who is a badass.

this thread just got GOLDEN.
hahah

because sitting in front of an SSL everyday TOTALLY makes you a great engineer.

and no one is acting "spiteful, or spineless". Why, you ask?
1) You threw out tremendously broad generalizations just because you've had bad experiences with engineers. Guess what...WE ALL HAVE. But that doesn't mean we're going to knock on everyone and say that its not worth it to pay anybody. That would be disrespectful to our peers and ourselves.
2) In your first post, you went on and on about how there are so many studios popping up everywhere and you can't imagine why anyone would pay 90% of the engineers out there, yet apparently,YOU work in "one of the top studios in Texas," which is probably full of guys like everyone on this board. The same kind of guys YOU put down in the same kind of studio YOU said you would never have anything to do with.
3) There is a big difference between an opinion that you open up to discussion on a board and the bullshit bash you posted. You immediately threw yourself out of the "this is my opinion, please respect it" circle about a paragraph into what you said.
1) Finally, how seriously are you taking anything being said on here? As soon as I read the "come to a Blackened Heart show and watch me beat your ass with my veteran metal awesomeness" line, it became greatly obvious that you are taking this all WAY too seriously. Nothing said here merits threats or a show of your masculinity. And after all, aren't we all entitled to OUR opinions? Or is that just you? ****ing hypocrite.

[blackened]

And by the way, James Meeker says he is a proffessional... These are the types of engineers i'm talking about. There is always friction between musicians and engineers. Sure, everything is great when everyone is getting paid a $100 an hour... I've noticed that people are so polite when you are paying them... But try getting your money back when you don't like the way the record came out. Then you get the engineer saying your band sucks anyway and that type of shit. This forum is exactly what I had hoped for and even better than expected.

When I started this forum, I said nothing against any particular person or group. I chose very careful wording like "most engineers suck." This whole thread and the bashing of my record is nothing less than what I would expect from a bunch of engineers. Like I said... failed musicians...

Julian

MySpace.com - Blackened Heart - Dallas, Texas - Metal / Metal / Metal - www.myspace.com/blackenedheart

[radium]

Originally Posted by blackened

I stand behind everything I have said. It surprises me not one bit that most of the losers on this forum have quickly jumped on the opportunity to attack my band. I made no effort to hide who I am or the name of my band. At the time however, that was irrelevant, but apparently now it is relevant. That is a typical reaction that I would expect from a recording engineer... to decide they don't like somebody's views or music and just sabotage their art.

What has gone on in this forum is a testament to the kind of spiteful, spinless, talentless engineers there are out there. And by the way, I am an engineer and work as an engineer at one of the top studios in Texas. I sit down in front of SSL every day brother, so don't pull some bullshit on me. I see this kind of treatment all the time from other studios and engineers. The only reason my clients trust me is because i'm a veteran metal player and they know I have good ears.

As a certain poster said, there are many less than 100 people in the whole world that can claim they are "top notch." The rest of you (us) are all wannabe's until proven otherwise. I will even admit that sometimes I throw my hands up in the air... But I will tell you this, I treat my clients with more respect than most of you have treated my argument. I have every right to state my opinion from my experience.

And by the way, our music is badass, and if someone wants to come to a Blackened Heart show and say some shit to my face, then we will see who is a badass.

HAHAHAHAHAHAH oh my gosh, those are the worst songs I've ever heard of. Your music is really blasphemous to the metal scene.

If you're Mr. Engineer superstar, why does your record sound like crap? There are no amount of plug-ins, ghost players, or songwriters to save you and your sorry "band". Maybe you should be the one to give up, and not us...

[malice]

Originally Posted by blackened

I stand behind everything I have said. It surprises me not one bit that most of the losers on this forum have quickly jumped on the opportunity to attack my band. I made no effort to hide who I am or the name of my band. At the time however, that was irrelevant, but apparently now it is relevant. That is a typical reaction that I would expect from a recording engineer... to decide they don't like somebody's views or music and just sabotage their art.

What has gone on in this forum is a testament to the kind of spiteful, spinless, talentless engineers there are out there. And by the way, I am an engineer and work as an engineer at one of the top studios in Texas. I sit down in front of SSL every day brother, so don't pull some bullshit on me. I see this kind of treatment all the time from other studios and engineers. The only reason my clients trust me is because i'm a veteran metal player and they know I have good ears.

As a certain poster said, there are many less than 100 people in the whole world that can claim they are "top notch." The rest of you (us) are all wannabe's until proven otherwise. I will even admit that sometimes I throw my hands up in the air... But I will tell you this, I treat my clients with more respect than most of you have treated my argument. I have every right to state my opinion from my experience.

And by the way, our music is badass, and if someone wants to come to a Blackened Heart show and say some shit to my face, then we will see who is a badass.

No, you don't have good ears, or you have terrible brain between them. Your music sux donkeys, is poorly recorded, and the mix is as flat as Bonneville speed track.

Nice try though ( I mean the lame attempt to troll this place and spam your lifeless boring music).

Oh, I would say this (shit) to your face anytime, anywhere.


malice

[princeplanet]

Originally Posted by blackened

I stand behind everything I have said. It surprises me not one bit that most of the losers on this forum have quickly jumped on the opportunity to attack my band. I made no effort to hide who I am or the name of my band. At the time however, that was irrelevant, but apparently now it is relevant. That is a typical reaction that I would expect from a recording engineer... to decide they don't like somebody's views or music and just sabotage their art.

What has gone on in this forum is a testament to the kind of spiteful, spinless, talentless engineers there are out there. And by the way, I am an engineer and work as an engineer at one of the top studios in Texas. I sit down in front of SSL every day brother, so don't pull some bullshit on me. I see this kind of treatment all the time from other studios and engineers. The only reason my clients trust me is because i'm a veteran metal player and they know I have good ears.

As a certain poster said, there are many less than 100 people in the whole world that can claim they are "top notch." The rest of you (us) are all wannabe's until proven otherwise. I will even admit that sometimes I throw my hands up in the air... But I will tell you this, I treat my clients with more respect than most of you have treated my argument. I have every right to state my opinion from my experience.

And by the way, our music is badass, and if someone wants to come to a Blackened Heart show and say some shit to my face, then we will see who is a badass.

Rock on DoomBoy!

[robot gigante]

Originally Posted by blackened

What has gone on in this forum is a testament to the kind of spiteful, spinless, talentless engineers there are out there. And by the way, I am an engineer and work as an engineer at one of the top studios in Texas. I sit down in front of SSL every day brother, so don't pull some bullshit on me. I see this kind of treatment all the time from other studios and engineers. The only reason my clients trust me is because i'm a veteran metal player and they know I have good ears.

Did you mix the stuff you have on myspace with the SSL?



ps. ssh shh you guys!

[malice]

Originally Posted by robot gigante

Did you mix the stuff you have on myspace with the SSL?



ps. ssh shh you guys!

LOL

Hey, what did you use as reverb on the drums in "Behold the Price", Did you intend to make a total Ghey sound on purpose or was it just bad taste ?

And do you like long walks on the beach during sunset ?



malice

[winvbass]

Originally Posted by jigsawlogic

Most musicians are failed musicians.

LOL!!!
And that should be an end to it!

[Sk106]

Originally Posted by winvbass

Most musicians are failed musicians.
LOL!!!
And that should be an end to it!

Failed according to whos opinion? the opinions of engineering fellows? then this thread has got a most relevant arguing point: engineers are supposed to be the guardians and gatekeepers of music performance standard - based solely on their spur of the moment feel?

[narcoman]

Originally Posted by blackened

And by the way, James Meeker says he is a proffessional... These are the types of engineers i'm talking about. There is always friction between musicians and engineers. Sure, everything is great when everyone is getting paid a $100 an hour... I've noticed that people are so polite when you are paying them... But try getting your money back when you don't like the way the record came out. Then you get the engineer saying your band sucks anyway and that type of shit. This forum is exactly what I had hoped for and even better than expected.

When I started this forum, I said nothing against any particular person or group. I chose very careful wording like "most engineers suck." This whole thread and the bashing of my record is nothing less than what I would expect from a bunch of engineers. Like I said... failed musicians...

Julian

MySpace.com - Blackened Heart - Dallas, Texas - Metal / Metal / Metal - www.myspace.com/blackenedheart

failed musician?

How do you think I got the money to set up my company?

You're over defensive and excuse making. Maybe the engineer was shit. Your playing on those tunes on Myspace says you performed to a level that matches you well with the sh.it engineer.

Whiner, excuse weiner and dullard. When you make a record you are as responsible as the person doing the recording. You can't play bass (as evident in your tracks ) - I'm sure you blame others for that.

[Caleb m]

This is freakin' hilarious!!!!!

[Tony Shepperd]

Originally Posted by blackened

i stand behind everything i have said. It surprises me not one bit that most of the losers on this forum have quickly jumped on the opportunity to attack my band. I made no effort to hide who i am or the name of my band. At the time however, that was irrelevant, but apparently now it is relevant. That is a typical reaction that i would expect from a recording engineer... To decide they don't like somebody's views or music and just sabotage their art.

What has gone on in this forum is a testament to the kind of spiteful, spinless, talentless engineers there are out there. And by the way, i am an engineer and work as an engineer at one of the top studios in texas. I sit down in front of ssl every day brother, so don't pull some bullshit on me. I see this kind of treatment all the time from other studios and engineers. The only reason my clients trust me is because i'm a veteran metal player and they know i have good ears.

As a certain poster said, there are many less than 100 people in the whole world that can claim they are "top notch." the rest of you (us) are all wannabe's until proven otherwise. I will even admit that sometimes i throw my hands up in the air... But i will tell you this, i treat my clients with more respect than most of you have treated my argument. I have every right to state my opinion from my experience.

And by the way, our music is badass, and if someone wants to come to a blackened heart show and say some shit to my face, then we will see who is a badass.

rotflmao!!!

[blaugruen7]

moan zone?

[RonCarlston]

Originally Posted by blackened

And by the way, our music is badass.

lets get one thing straight, NO.


anyone who hasent listened to it, check it out. Its pretty funny stuff. Gaurunteed it will make you laugh.


singer just talks over this dry electronic industrial music "VAuughh...wasting our breath...vauuhh cold cruel world...bleak souls!!..hail the power of winter and the FROST that it leaves on my sword..VauuUGGH (vampire sound)...Uhghghhg world of shit may you falll.."


DUDE listen to song 3 the singer goes "SO YOU WANNA GO DOoooWN!!?!? dOWN TO THE BOTTOMM?!?!?! ALL THE WAY DOWN?!?!? DOWN INTO SODOM???"

I sympathize with your argument but your music is shit.

[RonCarlston]

No way this guy is serious...i fell for it.


you trolled me hook line and sinker.




there is just no way you stand beside that music i refuse to believe it.

[drmmrboy]

Originally Posted by blackened

MySpace.com - Blackened Heart - Dallas, Texas - Metal / Metal / Metal - www.myspace.com/blackenedheart

Dude is this really your myspace..??

I don't think I'm one of the AE greats out there, but I definitely don't suck..
And after visiting your myspace, I feel like a frickin genius..

[RonCarlston]

I am downloading your songs , seriously. This shit would make even the most dry sense of humor fall onto the ground laughing.






love it

[Sk106]

This thread really is starting to look hilarious; The guy said he's tired of engineers who cannot be objective and cool, and instead succumbs to judging and inflicting with musicians' artistic expressions ...

... and now look at the above posts