Buyers on Ebay are getting worse

[steve10358]

This may sound strange, but I no longer sell items under $150-200 on Ebay.

Why you might ask? Because I have found that the percentage of losers take a sharp increase at that amount and below.

I have bought and sold thousands and thousands and thousands of dollars worth of equipment on Ebay with no problem... unless it was under $150. Several hundred transactions, but 4 losers stand out in recent memory

The whiners, slow payers...

All in the last 6-7 months:

Exhibit A:
I had a MINT Morley Tripler. Sat in a box for 4 years. Sold it for $60. Worked right before I shipped and packed perfectly (like all my stuff). The guy asks me to ship quick so he can use it in the studio- so I oblige. 2 weeks later he emails me and says he couldn't use it cause it was broke! I almost told him to stick it you know where... but a friend stupidly talked me out of it. Nothing like renting stuff for free!

What did I get back? A broken, scratched, dirty, knicked pedal not worth the aluminum it was stamped with. Nice. Thanks (DELETED BY MODERATOR)

Exhibit B:
USPS loses a pickguard sending it to France. So- I am in the process of getting the insurance back and the guy just will not stop. Threatening lawsuits, accusing me of lying and all I can do is assure him I will refund the money but am not going to be out the money AND pickguard (was loaded with Dimarzio's)... and need to follow due process. Technically, he's responsible for handling insurance, but I never leave anyone on their own. I will of course issue a refund. I would never risk my 100% on a $100 sale. I don't need the money that bad.


Exhibit C:
Sold an ADA Midi controller BIN. Guy then wants to cancel his bid. I tell him he cannot cause I'm not gonna lose listing fees cause he backs out. Long story short... waits a week to pay. Then complains that it took me a week to get it out (he hadn't paid yet). Then on top of that freezes the $120+ in my paypal by filing a dispute. Then threatens me that if it's broke and that I probably broke it ,etc... I knew what was coming. Thank god Paypal actually backed me up (after 8 phone calls).

Exhibit D and E:
I have multiple sales (and purchases) under $15 that were so obnoxious, they are not worth repeating.

So there you have it. It may not seem like that big a deal, but the time and hassles and harrassment far exceeds any benefit for me. I'm sticking to amps and guitars from now on.


Am I the only one that has seen this?

[T_R_S]

I have zero patience for people asking to remove their bids. (because they don't want a bid retraction against them) I get lots of them.
I had a plug-in and somebody want to cancel the bid because they they thought is was hardware not a plug-in. (Duh a black face 1176 for a $100 want was your first hint it's a plug-in other than the Title of the auction)
Sorry you got me started
If you don't want want it then don't bid.
I just add them to bid blocked list ...

[Chaellus]

hmm ive been only a buyer on ebay.. god forbid i ever get problems selling.. when ever i buy stuff the seller tells me to send payment soon the only thing i hate is that it takes them more than half month to get the damn money order or so they say and another weeks to send the item....i expect if im going to send you the cash now you send me my damn item asap but so far they are slow sellers taht ship slow except for maybe one... thank god ive never gotten ripped off on a transaction yet... lets keep it that way...

[dingo]

Originally Posted by steve10358

Exhibit B:
USPS loses a pickguard sending it to France. So- I am in the process of getting the insurance back and the guy just will not stop. Threatening lawsuits, accusing me of lying and all I can do is assure him I will refund the money but am not going to be out the money AND pickguard (was loaded with Dimarzio's)... and need to follow due process. Technically, he's responsible for handling insurance, but I never leave anyone on their own. I will of course issue a refund. I would never risk my 100% on a $100 sale. I don't need the money that bad.

As I understand it, insurance is purchased to protect the seller, not the buyer. As the seller, it's your responsibility to get the item to the buyer in its stated condition. As soon as it was determined that the item was lost, you should have sent the buyer a refund. You (not the buyer) contracted USPS to ship the item. Getting reimbursed for the lost item is your issue, not the buyer's. If I were the buyer in this case, I'd be pissed, too.

[donsolo]

I think the problem is that Ebay, like any business has it's good eggs and bad eggs.

The problem when you're selling is that you have no control over the bad eggs.

You could require a certain positive feedback...

I've got a few sellers that I really like for non-musical items. But I'm not in any rush for any music equipment that I'd deal with fleabay.

The auction system actually gets rid of any deals...

[steve10358]

Originally Posted by dingo

As I understand it, insurance is purchased to protect the seller, not the buyer. As the seller, it's your responsibility to get the item to the buyer in its stated condition. As soon as it was determined that the item was lost, you should have sent the buyer a refund. You (not the buyer) contracted USPS to ship the item. Getting reimbursed for the lost item is your issue, not the buyer's. If I were the buyer in this case, I'd be pissed, too.

That's not true. It's the same reason a buyer is responsible for a damaged item as well. Take for instance, if Fedex damages a piece of gear... they will buy it from the buyer. The two cases I've had where Fedex or UPS damaged something- they contacted the guy I sold it to to make arrangements. Both times each buyer declined and instead opted to fix it on their own. The buyer chooses how they want to receive the item. Shipping, pick it up, etc... once it leaves my hands- the transaction is complete.

Regardless- I always stick with whoever I sold something too- even if it goes outside of what I just wrote in the paragraph above. I always help- but I'll be damned if some guy in another country gets a free $150 while I hack it out to get the insurance.

[T_R_S]

Originally Posted by dingo

As the seller, it's your responsibility to get the item to the buyer in its stated condition.

Not quite true, Yes it is the sellers responsibility to sell in the condition that it was in. i.e. if the item is new you don't sell a used item. But it is the buyers responsibility to purchase shipping insurance to cover shipping damages. Once an item leaves the possession of the buyer the seller owns the item because he has purchased it. I know this to be fact as I use to work for a large corporation that shipped millions of dollars of electronic equipment a year. We spend thousands of dollars a year to purchase heavy duty flight cases to save on insurance costs on shipping.

[JH4music]

Worst I ever had was a buyer that won a mixer for $15. I had paid $100 for it, but honored the highest bid because I chose to sell it with no reserve. Shipped it to the guy, shipping was $15. So he paid a whopping $30.

He gets it, and says it doesn't power up. He also says he's a technician and can open it up and check it out. He does, and says that he checked one side of the transformer and there was no power. He said he didn't check the other side because he didn't feel like it and he's not a very good technician, but was still sure that the transformer must be broken from the vibration during shipping. He wanted a full refund for the shipping and the item and he wanted to keep the item, or he wanted me to send him $20 to send it back, plus give him a full refund. No matter how hard I tried to explain it to him, he couldn't grasp the concept that the cost of shipping was going to exceed the cost of the item, and that shipping it back to me wasn't going to gain either of us anything since the shipping was more than what the item itself cost.

After about 3 weeks of getting a page long email from him every day, he finally agrees to return the item, and pay for the return shipping. When I recieved the broken item, I would refund him his original purchase price plus the shipping, assuming of course that the item is broken.

So after all of this crap, I get the thing back, and there's NOTHING WRONG with it. It powers up fine. The guy had been lying about it being broken the whole time.

I must have wasted about 8 hours of my time emailing back and forth with this guy, all over a $15 item that he must have decided he didn't want. I sent him a picture of it powered up, next to the box with his handwriting on it. He called me all kinds of nasty names, said I was a liar and left me negative feedback. Whatever. If I would have known ho much a a pain in the ass that was going to be I would have just thrown the damn thing in the garbage.

Then there was the guy that tried to reverse the charge on a $1200 item. Said he took it out of the crate, tested it and it didn't work. It was insured with UPS, so I set up everything with them and when they showed up at his house to inspect the item he told them that someone stole it off his front porch. I emailed a few other people who he had left negatives for and they said he had tried to do the same thing to them too. The guys email was something like diabolicaldude666. How fitting.

[JH4music]

Then probably the strangest one, a guy with zero feedback bids on some pro tools cards and wins them for like $500. Never pays, won't respond to my emails. I got stuck with the final value fees because there was a limit of 2 claims per month or something, and I had just had a bunch of similar transactions with deadbeat bidders before that. So I gladly left him a negative.

2 years later, the guy has worked up to a feedback score of 10, and sends me an email saying he's sorry for not paying for them.

What the hell? Was he going through a 12 step program or something?

[slaves666]

Honestly, you have a string of bad luck. I have little to no issues here or Ebay.

I did buy something very early on, and when it showed up a tube was dead. After a month and plenty of emails with no response, I left him NEUTRAL feedback saying that he didn't address the issue I had, but for a 12$ tube it was not worth bad feedback. He in turn, left scathing remarks and negative feedback. What a loser.

At least now with sellers not allowed to leave negative feedback, the shipping prices aren't jacked up like they were a year ago.... 10$ for a CD, $150 for a guitar......SUUUUUUUUUUURE.

[dingo]

Originally Posted by steve10358

That's not true. It's the same reason a buyer is responsible for a damaged item as well. Take for instance, if Fedex damages a piece of gear... they will buy it from the buyer. The two cases I've had where Fedex or UPS damaged something- they contacted the guy I sold it to to make arrangements. Both times each buyer declined and instead opted to fix it on their own.

That's strange. I can't figure why a carrier would pay out a claim to someone who didn't contract them.. unless you directed them to do so? Some number of years ago, I received a shipment that was damaged by UPS. I called the seller, he told me to call UPS. The rep at UPS said (politely) that they weren't going to do anything for me since I wasn't the one who paid them. Sounds like their policies have changed since then?

The buyer chooses how they want to receive the item. Shipping, pick it up, etc... once it leaves my hands- the transaction is complete.

I'm assuming you're in the US and your state follows the Uniform Commercial Code. If that's the case, transfer of ownership takes place when the item is physically received by the buyer, unless you and the buyer have agreed otherwise (UCC § 2-401). And since ownership doesn't transfer until delivery, the risk of loss is the seller's until the buyer takes possession of the item (§ 2-509). And again, that's only if a contrary agreement between the seller and buyer hasn't been made.

Now, you didn't mention whether the buyer paid you for the insurance or you bought it on your own. If the buyer paid for it, here's what the FTC has to say in their "Mail or Telephone Order Merchandise Trade Regulation Rule":

By offering insurance, the merchant implicitly represents that it will honor any claim of nondelivery by providing prompt reshipment or, if reshipment is impossible, a prompt refund. It would be improper to collect fees from customers for reshipment insurance and not respond promptly and appropriately to their bona fide claims of loss.

Since we're talking about ebay, they haven't made it explicitly clear (that I've found) whether or not they honor seller's terms that say something along the lines of "buy insurance or I'm not responsible for shipping damages or loss." I've read claims that ebay will do nothing if the buyer pays with (for instance) a postal money order. Whether or not they're honoring the terms of "I'm not responsible if you don't buy insurance" stated in the auction, I really don't know. With Paypal (an ebay company), it's clear.. deliver as described, or you, the seller, will refund the buyer, regardless of what terms you've stated in your auction.

Regardless- I always stick with whoever I sold something too- even if it goes outside of what I just wrote in the paragraph above. I always help- but I'll be damned if some guy in another country gets a free $150 while I hack it out to get the insurance.

I hate the claim process as well, but your buyer isn't getting a free $150 (unless there's more to the story than what I'm reading).. he's getting his money back for something he (presumably) didn't receive.

[dingo]

Originally Posted by T_R_S

Not quite true, Yes it is the sellers responsibility to sell in the condition that it was in. i.e. if the item is new you don't sell a used item. But it is the buyers responsibility to purchase shipping insurance to cover shipping damages. Once an item leaves the possession of the buyer the seller owns the item because he has purchased it.

Well, I have no idea about Canada's commercial law, but for most states in the US, the transfer of ownership occurs when the buyer takes physical delivery, and all risk of loss belongs to the seller until the buyer receives the goods.. unless an agreement to the contrary has been made between buyer and seller. IANAL, but that's how I understand it.

U.C.C. - ARTICLE 2 - SALES
§ 2-401. Passing of Title; Reservation for Security; Limited Application of This Section.

(2) Unless otherwise explicitly agreed title passes to the buyer at the time and place at which the seller completes his performance with reference to the physical delivery of the goods...

§ 2-509. Risk of Loss in the Absence of Breach.

(3) In any case not within subsection (1) or (2), the risk of loss passes to the buyer on his receipt of the goods if the seller is a merchant; otherwise the risk passes to the buyer on tender of delivery.

[d1rtynyc]

I have sold well over $150k on Ebay so I have been happy with it in the past and have made my share of money, but now I don't touch it. For allot of the same crap you have gone thru and more.
I will NEVER use ebay or paypal again!

If I need a item, I'll buy it new. If it's vintage, hell I'll find it elsewhere. If I need to sell it, Craigslist.

I am done with the BS!!!!

PLEASE someone out there, make a music gear alternative to e-bay & save us all!!!!!

[Animus]

Originally Posted by d1rtynyc

PLEASE someone out there, make a music gear alternative to e-bay & save us all!!!!!

It's called Gearsltuz. ;-)

[T_R_S]

Originally Posted by dingo

Well, I have no idea about Canada's commercial law, but for most states in the US, the transfer of ownership occurs when the buyer takes physical delivery, and all risk of loss belongs to the seller until the buyer receives the goods.. unless an agreement to the contrary has been made between buyer and seller. IANAL, but that's how I understand it.

U.C.C. - ARTICLE 2 - SALES
§ 2-401. Passing of Title; Reservation for Security; Limited Application of This Section.


§ 2-509. Risk of Loss in the Absence of Breach.

That may be true if FOB is the destination but if FOB is at the origin then the buyer is responsible for insurance and shipping costs/damages.
If the seller is covering the shipping costs then that is FOB destination the seller is responsible.
If the buyer is paying the shipping that is FOB Origin That makes it the buyer's responsibility for insurance/shipping costs/damages.
I dealt with that stuff for over 10 years.
The Bottom line is buy insurance or have a transportation wavier on your studio insurance.

[dingo]

Originally Posted by T_R_S

That may be true if FOB is the destination but if FOB is at the origin then the buyer is responsible for insurance and shipping costs/damages.
If the seller is covering the shipping costs then that is FOB destination the seller is responsible.
If the buyer is paying the shipping that is FOB Origin That makes it the buyer's responsibility for insurance/shipping costs/damages.
I dealt with that stuff for over 10 years.
The Bottom line is buy insurance or have a transportation wavier on your studio insurance.

You're right. Who pays freight usually implies where risk of loss passes to the buyer, but it ultimately depends on the contract.

Usually, the terms are made explicit in the contract between seller and buyer. If the contract doesn't require the seller to deliver the goods to a specified destination, then the risk of loss becomes the buyer's when the seller delivers the goods to the carrier (FOB origin). But if the contract does require the seller to deliver the goods to a specified destination, then the buyer does not assume the risk of loss until the goods have been delivered to that destination (FOB destination). If the contract is unclear, the risk of loss becomes the buyer's when he takes receipt of the goods, if the seller is a merchant. If the seller is not a merchant, the risk becomes the buyer's when the goods have become available for the buyer to take delivery.

Buying an item on ebay from a seller, giving him your address (right, with your payment for the item + reimbursement for shipping costs + insurance) and saying "ship it to me at this address" sounds like a destination contract, doesn't it? As a seller, it'd be very convenient if I could claim no responsibility after I gave the goods to the carrier. If the shipment got lost or damaged, I could file a claim with the carrier (thanks to the insurance the buyer reimbursed me for), collect the cash and be under no legal obligation to pay back the buyer.

[Zooey]

There are shipping terms to cover every conceivable combination of insurance responsibility, risk of loss, and transfer of title.

You just have to specify which terms apply in the auction description and make agreement to those shipping terms part of the transaction.

[Autotune Prophet]

Exhibit A:
I had a MINT Morley Tripler. Sat in a box for 4 years. Sold it for $60. Worked right before I shipped and packed perfectly (like all my stuff). The guy asks me to ship quick so he can use it in the studio- so I oblige. 2 weeks later he emails me and says he couldn't use it cause it was broke! I almost told him to stick it you know where... but a friend stupidly talked me out of it. Nothing like renting stuff for free!

What did I get back? A broken, scratched, dirty, knicked pedal not worth the aluminum it was stamped with. Nice. Thanks **** *****. I appreciate you being a$$hole. Screenname *******.

I understand your frustration as I went through a similar situation but don't you think that this person - however shady, according to you, this person has handled - has a right to privacy? For all we know this is only your side of the story. Maybe the item really was damaged during shipment... It happens. Did you ever thought about that before putting this person's name out?

I'm not trying to attack you, but your way of presenting this story is questionable at least.

I, for myself, have had more problems with sellers unfortunately.

[SIMS Audio]

I've had problems with sellers myself. I bought a faderport back in May from a vendor in SC. Turns out they didn't have it in stock. It took them 4 days to figure out the item wasn't in stock and took another week to refund my payment. I left a honest neutral feedback stating the item wasn't it stock and the response was very slow. Of course I got flamed with not only a negative feedback but they kept filing up paid auction claims (at least 3 or 4) with ebay that I had to spend countless hours fighting and prove that I did make payment and that they refunded. Needless to say I tried for weeks to get ebay to remove them for violation of terms of service for filing false claims, but ebay didn't give a shit.

[donsolo]

The real problem is that ebay isn't in the business of giving a shit.

They only care about the transactions happening, and happen they do!

They get their cut. Why would they want to ban someone who pays them?

It's not ethical but it's how they operate.

They gotta pay for skype somehow...

[NorseHorse]

I've been fighting crime in my own little way on eBay. I was jipped by a seller from FL who sent a trashy preamp which he had described as "excellent". I now keeps tabs on all his auctions.

ADVICE: Concerning GALLIEN KRUEGER BACKLINE 115 COMBO - eBay (item 190238833611 end time Jul-26-08 16:06:37 PDT)

I once had speakers damaged by DHL. It took my nine months to get the insurance. That's a whole 'nother story...

[NorseHorse]

And then there's the buyer who actually bought my ADVICE thinking it was an actual item. Don't people READ anymore?

I told him he didn't need to pay.

[wreckd]

Originally Posted by NorseHorse

I've been fighting crime in my own little way on eBay. I was jipped by a seller from FL who sent a trashy preamp which he had described as "excellent". I now keeps tabs on all his auctions.

ADVICE: Concerning GALLIEN KRUEGER BACKLINE 115 COMBO - eBay (item 190238833611 end time Jul-26-08 16:06:37 PDT)

I once had speakers damaged by DHL. It took my nine months to get the insurance. That's a whole 'nother story...

hahahhaa that is awesome!!!

I got ripped off recently. Bought an ibanez talman guitar, turned up with no neck. I was sort of stunned. I mean who the hell takes photos of the whole guitar, then only sends the body??? 5 emails and no reply, so i've logged a paypal claim. But I think I might borrow your idea

[T_R_S]

Originally Posted by NorseHorse

And then there's the buyer who actually bought my ADVICE thinking it was an actual item. Don't people READ anymore?

I told him he didn't need to pay.

HAHA good one
I had a UAD 1176 plug-in on ebay and the guy thought it was hardware I really don't think an 1176 would be on eBay for a $100.00!!
Some people don't have a good grip on the obvious! tutt