American music is crap! please discuss

[entropy]

ok, the title is there to grab attention but having sat thru the AMA's last nite, what other conclusion can I come to?

So, we have the cream of American recording artists from the last 12 months on show. I'll admit, there were a few that are genuinely talented individuals (Outkast and Alica Keyes spring to mind) but the rest....????? It's just rubbish!

Let me pick over a few highlights:

What's the deal with Jessica Simpson? That isn't singing, it's just crap..... her vocal style is nonsense. Forgot the vocal gymnastics love, try singing a ****ing tune!!!! I'm not anti this sort of music if it's done well, but this isn't.

Alternative Music? The nominees are Incubus, Jet and Linkin Park (lol, alternative to what? A descent band?). Of course, LP wins.... So the message here is, mediocrity is a good thing. Don't try and be creative. Just be bland, follow a formula, pour $$$$ into promotion and let the record company do the rest. And while we're discussing bands (?), is there no bands left in the US? Off all the nominees, only 2 bands are mentioned that hail from the US (the same ones as the Alternative category).

Lenny. WTF??? I'm a fan of Lenny Kravitz but what was going on with his (?) live performance? It seemed to me the only live element was his guitar solo, and he ****ed that up. And it's the worst tune he's ever done.

I've run out of time for now (Carols by candlelight tonight) but will return to moan later.

peace

[picksail]

We are also capitalists. All artistic bias aside, this is the reality...sell more beer, sodas and tennis shoes. The American capitalistic infrastructure is interested in 'moving units' and not producing art. Everything has a bottom line and in this country art is not excluded. We have succeeded in blurring the lines between art and entertainment....in practically all mediums.

[thethrillfactor]

The AMA's is an award show based on your sales in Billboard.

It has nothing to do with talent, just how much records you sell.

I think award shows are stupid anyway.

How can anyone really judge art?

And why should anyone judge it period?

On that front, i don't think engineers are the best judges on what's good anyway.

We are all biased.

Technically maybe.

Based on what's good or not...nah.

[ozraves]

The American Music Awards were created in the 1970s by Dick Clark. So, please don't judge American music by watching an awards show created by a guy who thinks lip synching is entertaiinment.

[picksail]

Originally posted by ozraves
The American Music Awards were created in the 1970s by Dick Clark. So, please don't judge American music by watching an awards show created by a guy who thinks lip synching is entertaiinment.

Speaking of Dick Clark, one of my all time favorite iconoclastic TV moments was watching Public Image on American Bandstand. Johnny Rotton displayed little regard for the apparent stipulations placed upon him. The music played while Johnny totally disregarded the lip-syning portion of the show...total mayhem.

Sorry for the off topic remark.

[alphajerk]

awards shows are of little relevance except for walmart amerika.

[Don]

Battle of the bands for people with record deals..Grammys ect. all suck..who gives a sh*t

[C.Lambrechts]

Originally posted by Don
Battle of the bands for people with record deals..Grammys ect. all suck..who gives a sh*t

The ones who win 'em ?

[Rab]

Cris... you're showing your age mate!

We're going to have "Record of The Year" over here in the UK tonight. It'll probably go to McFly/Eamon/Natasha Bedingfield etc (er... who?... exactly.). These things are done to promote the shop floor dummies who are most likely to milk the most pocket money out of prepubescent tweenies in the shortest possible time. The token "art" UK music awards show (Mercury) is similarly crap, but that's a different matter.

There is still plenty of great American music around. Try Sufjan Stevens, Gillian Welch...

[Ruudman]

Originally posted by alphajerk
awards shows are of little relevance except for walmart amerika.

Being european, I could easily generalize americans based on my lack of
knowledge.
But I reckon you are more or less like us (?): individuals

Walmart Amerika, yes,
I will start to use that phrase

[Don]

Originally posted by C.Lambrechts
The ones who win 'em ?

True enough

[Nerve Nickels]

let all that self-propagating marketing bullshit fly...

....all these award shows are ****ing ridiculous and the artist that actually show-up for them and baste them selves in the *flash* and lights ****ing amaze me, lack of attainment musically or personally, now thats entertainment... right?
fuuck
...end rant

we need another selfless movement ....any takers?

[entropy]

Originally posted by thethrillfactor
The AMA's is an award show based on your sales in Billboard.

It has nothing to do with talent, just how much records you sell.

And there sir is my point. Someone out there is buying this crap!!!!

I know, there are some great US artists, across every genre, but why is it that this pond scum floats to the top? I'm not that ignorant to believe that the artists shown there get there solely on merit, obviously the whole event is staged to further record sales, but if you were a mook, would you be promoting the likes of Jessica Simpson ahead of.... say, (very long pause while I try and think of a great album released in the last 12 months.....William Shatner? It's been a poor year!) Black Francis, Green Day..... actually, they weren't great albums either. Truth be told, I can't think of any great US albums from the last year. A few good hip hop ones, yes, a couple of R n B things which were ok (well produced but not really my thing) and .... dfegad

Please someone, name me a US band that is doing great stuff, something that will be memorable in 20 years time. And don't give me Linkin Pork , Good Charlotte or The Strokes . I mean Soundgarden good, Metallica (not my bag), G and R, REM, Beach Boys, Led Zep, RHCP, Ramones etc etc.

[Kestral]

Since we're on the subject, I thought I'd mention imo the only great album so far this millenium:

[entropy]

Kestral. I totally agree!!!

[Bob Olhsson]

Originally posted by entropy
Someone out there is buying this crap!!!!
...

In fact, they AREN'T buying lots of it.

In the 1990s radio airplay in the US changed from being based on sales to being based on demographic research much like that used to select the background music for retail stores.

The result has been a serious disconnect between performers on the radio and fans. Video can sell some records but it's more like selling souvenirs of music videos than about fans wanting to own an artist's music.

[entropy]

yikes Bob!!! Now that is a scary proposal. Essentially what you are saying is the it doesn't even matter what is being purchased/requested, radio play is now run by the "friends of mook" committee.

And yet, record sales are down. So it would seem the current trend of churning out crap is'nt working and maybe the old idea of giving a band time to develop (ie. something beyond 1 album w/ 2 options) may be a better long term strategy.

This whole thing is a giant onion of a discussion, one I can't even begin to unravel on a Sunday night.

It just pisses me off no end to see what is pushed down our throats, when we all know that there are so many more worthy acts that deserve a break.

rant over

[alphajerk]

Originally posted by Kestral
Since we're on the subject, I thought I'd mention imo the only great album so far this millenium:

and sadly isnt even close to their strongest stuff they put out.


clutch's blast tyrant was a pretty good album from this past year even though the production was pretty bad and made their sounds pretty generic. songs were good tho. fu manchu still continues to put out better and better albums on the heavy tilt. so was the last nebula release, atomic ritual from last year.

but, i still have to think REALLY hard to come up with any albums released in the past several years worthy of praise.

weens quebec is KILLER, blows that flaming lips psuedo-electronic schwag away [im a HUGE flaming lips fan.... but i dont buy into this commercial crap of the last album and think they "sold out" pretty hard, kinda found it amateur and boring compared to people who do that type of stuff WELL], suprizingly the blues clues guy [steve burns, from a american kids television show] put out a killer album with dave fridmann and some of the flaming lips help called 'songs for dustmites' or some shit.

[johnjm22]

Originally posted by entropy
Alternative Music? The nominees are Incubus, Jet and Linkin Park (lol, alternative to what? A descent band?). Of course, LP wins.... So the message here is, mediocrity is a good thing. Don't try and be creative. Just be bland, follow a formula, pour $$$$ into promotion and let the record company do the rest.

I agree with you about the crappy state of American music right now, but please don't put Incubus in the same catagory as all these other crappy bands. Yeah their singles are can be cheesy, but those don't reflect the band's true musical ability.

Incubus is an absolutley fantastic band. Of all the mainstream bands that get played on the radio or TV these days, I would have to say that they are probably they only good one. They are definatley superior to Jet, and Linkin Park. I'm guessing you've probably never listened to an Incubus album. Check out S.C.I.E.N.C.E, Make Yourself, or Morning View. Three of the best alternative albums ever made. Yes, that's right, Alternative.

No tryin to bag on you, but I'm a huge Incubus fan so I thought I say something.


Just my 2 cents.

[entropy]

bag away johnjm, it's fine. And you are right, I've never listened to a whole Incubus album, but the few tunes I have heard were good and I wasn't directing it at them. And I didn't put them in same category, the AMA did. Actually, the main point of that sentence was to diss Linkin Park, the fact that they are POP not alternative. Jet? They're ok, great? No way!

AJ. I can't comment on the albums you've put forward but I will check them out ( the blues clues thing sounds interesting). But I've spent the weekend trying to think of the highlights over the past 12 months and I can't come up with much. I liked NERD Fly or Die, the Lips album as mentioned, but most of the stuff I enjoyed was either from the UK or US hip hop ( and it was hardly a stellar year on that front).

I will give it some more thought and try and come up with something. If anyone else can chime in with a killer US album from the past year, I'd love to hear about it.

[stealthbalance]

Originally posted by entropy
Actually, the main point of that sentence was to diss Linkin Park, the fact that they are POP not alternative. Jet? They're ok, great? No way!

If anyone else can chime in with a killer US album from the past year, I'd love to hear about it. [/B]

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maybe i shouldnt admit this , but i thought that that first linkin park album was quite strong.

amazing american album this year i would say brian wilson smile.

s

[picksail]

Yep, Smile is the one. I recently picked up the new Loretta Lynn CD, but it just didn't move me.

Regarding the 'state' of American music, as long as there are people who wish to consume this type of entertainment then there should be people to produce it. That's an opinion anyway not my aesthetic.

[thethrillfactor]

Originally posted by entropy
And there sir is my point. Someone out there is buying this crap!!!!

Again one man's crap is another mans gold.

For example i hated Led Zeppelin in the 70's and thought it was crap(and so did a lot of people i grew up with) and now i love it.

I thought the Beatles were a bunch of acid heads and now i can appreciate them.

I still don't dig the Beachboys and think they are way overrated.

But there are guys who probably would put them up there with Beethoven or Mozart.

In the 80's people thought Madonna's music was trash(and her lifestyle) and now she is celebrated,adorned and imitated by just every young singer or young girl.

Same goes for DuranDuran,the Cure,David Bowie,Bob Dylan,the Police,U2 and so on.

Point being for every artist you like and think is great, i can find someone who thinks they are all crap and contribute nothing.

Its an opinion and just that.

Again i will personally state that recording engineers should not state opinions on what's good or not when it comes to music.

Why?

1) Because we are biased in our approach to listening(we tend to listen technically first,emotionally second).

Its comes with the territory.

You have to learn to detatch yourself from the music at times so you can approach it technically.

That never goes away and its something you can't just turn off with a switch.

Anyway in this profession you probably don't want to.

2) Engineers rarely buy music(you know i am right guys).

If we do its for some stupid reason(usually something technical or business oriented).

Its never to to feel good or to get lost or to let go like it was before we joined the profession.

3) And lastly we become out of touch with the lastest trends.

Why?

Being stuck in one place for endless hours in a high pressure situation tends to make you sensitive and tunnel visioned.

You become about what you do and what you are trying to accomplish.

Its no longer about reason #2.

Its my opinion and just that.

But really in the end who really cares what i or you think?

If you don't like it don't buy it(or download it).

I liked Linkin Park's Meteora.

Not only on the technical side(in which I feel its one Andy Wallaces best mixed album to date).

But because i think its fun music to get lost in.

I walk into the studio, turn it on,play it loud and burn the ears in.

[Wiggy Neve Slut]

Originally posted by thethrillfactor
I walk into the studio, turn it on,play it loud and burn the ears in.

So does.... Suicide (the band), soundgardens 'super unknown', Refused's 'Songs to fan the flames of discontent', At The Drive In's 'relationship Of Command' and lately a lot of Brendan O'Briens early- mid 90's stuff from STP and Pearl Jam.... oh where do i stop? ..

But Super unknown is my pick for sonic wake up call in the morning!

Wiggy

[drundall]

Originally posted by thethrillfactor



1) Because we are biased in our approach to listening(we tend to listen technically first,emotionally second).


agreed.

2) Engineers rarely buy music(you know i am right guys).

Have to disagree here. I buy a shitload of music and so do a lot of engineers I know. I'll grant you that some of it is for "Technical listening" but a lot of it is to simply see what's out there.

3) And lastly we become out of touch with the lastest trends.

See response #2 and add a generous helping of local shows...gotta go to one right now.

[Bob Olhsson]

Originally posted by entropy

It just pisses me off no end to see what is pushed down our throats, when we all know that there are so many more worthy acts that deserve a break.

The next step is looking square at WHO is doing the pushing. The best I can tell, it's the folks who are buying the radio advertising and sponsoring the concerts.

[alphajerk]

Originally posted by thethrillfactor
2) Engineers rarely buy music(you know i am right guys).

If we do its for some stupid reason(usually something technical or business oriented).

Its never to to feel good or to get lost or to let go like it was before we joined the profession.

'

yes and no... im ALWAYS looking for something to "get lost" in. thats my main goal in buying music. i sure "steal" a LOAD of music to find the few gems among the crowd... and i do BUY those, purely for enjoyment and not technical or business oriented reasons. i guess the reason i "rarely" buy music as you state is because there is so little music that isnt just crass commercialism. but when i find good stuff, i buy all i can find of it.

[grahluk]

Ok I'll name one in the last year (roughly) that IMO earns the title of "great". The Mars Volta's "Deloused in the Comatorium" Never mind that you need the libretta that goes along with the concept album to make any sense of what's being said. Age and experience has jaded me to what mostly passes today for the kicks that upped my blood pressure in youth. That Mars Volta album put me back at 15 years old. As far as awards shows if anyone saw the latin MTV video awards before last you missed a performance that was equally and similarly entertaining as PIL on American bandstand. The former singer of Rage Against the Machine came out and introduced the Mars Volta. The band smoked. This is a band that doesn't worry if they can pull it off live. Part way through the performance while the band is jamming ( yes jamming on a televised awards show) the singer crawls over the first few rows of well dressed folks in the seats, grabs some hipster's sunglass and starts eating them. Unfortunately it seems this band has almost completely flown under the national radar but they made a fanboy out of me.

[BrianBrian]

Flaming Lips were great, Tool is amazing, Mars Volta is pretty great...Radiohead also usually great, Grandaddy and Death Cab for Cutie have some great albums too. I think American music is fantastic...but I don't listen to the radio. Or watch TV (Family Guy is essential though). If any of you guys are into electronic music, there are some amazing producers in the US. I'm a big fan/producer of ambient and IDM, and US artists like Beak, Grandma, Prefuse73, and Transient continually amaze me.

www.monotonik.com is an excellent free label/website that hosts a lot of these people's music.

I think American music is just as good/bad as music from all other parts of the world, it just is harder to find the good stuff! Tuning into college radio stations instead of Clearchannel BS might help too. I think KSCU (www.kscu.org) is one of the best radio stations ever, and they have introduced me to a lot of great homegrown American tunes.

Don't give up hope!

Wow! This is an opinion thread if there ever was one.

I think there is some great stuff coming out from Wilco, Grand daddy, Ammie Mann, Son Volt, and he may be dead but, Elliott Smith was putting out, IMHO, some of the best tunes ever written of all time in the WORLD.

Hell, I saw somebody mention G and R and Metallica as good.
This is truly an opinion based thead.

If you listen to Clear Channel or watch awards shows, you will be disappointed.

Take the Rock Grammies for instance:

Best Female Rock Vocal Performance
"Trouble," Pink*
I am sorry. I said "Rock".

Best Male Rock Vocal Performance
"Gravedigger," Dave Matthews*
You must not have heard me. "Rock"!

Best Rock Performance By A Duo Or Group With Vocal
"Disorder In The House," Warren Zevon and Bruce Springsteen*
Can you say Sympathy fuq?

Best Hard Rock Performance
"Bring Me To Life," Evanescence featuring Paul McCoy*
At least it IS "Rock"? Corperate gay-a$$ Rock.

Best Metal Performance
"St. Anger," Metallica*
Wasn't there a thread about the high levels of suckage surrounding this lack of effort?

Best Rock Song
"Seven Nation Army," Jack White for White Stripes*
Bass Players need not apply. $14.95 that I will never get back.

Best Rock Album
One By One, Foo Fighters*
It is Rock. It is "Best"?

Best Alternative Music Album
Elephant, The White Stripes*
Man, I want my 15 bucks back!



Point being, it is not the music but, rather the industry pushing this crap that sucks. And I think the industry uses its own awards to determine who they are going to shove at us next.

If you want good music it is there, just hard to find.

When you hear a good cd post it. talk about it.


I'll start.
Did you like Mary's Danish? If so, check out Sleater Keaney's All Hands on the Bad One. It is a smokin cd! Three rocking chicks.
Good guitars, good harmonies and lot's o' fun!


D