major cancellation, what to do???

[i to the v]

i was recently asked to do a pretty major recording session. we negotiated for a couple of months, came to an agreement, booked the days, and everything was set.
then i got a call the day before with the cancellation. we had a verbal agreement, but no formal written contract. i do however have numerous emails discussing dates and times. what should i do????

[ransomRR]

I have a rule at my studio. Half up front, or your session time is available to anyone else willing to pay in advance. About %90 of my clients opt to pay in advance. If you no call/no show for your session, I keep the upfront-money. So far that policy has kept those kind of shenanigans to a minimum. I totally suck at law so I have a lawyer for that kind of advice, but I would imagine you could probably sue him to recover some of your lost revenue. It's going to be tricky without a written contract though. About how much $$$/time are we talkin here?

[De chromium cob]

Next time get a non refundable deposit large enough to make them think twice about screwing you over. Chalk this one up as a learning experience. People suck.

[ransomRR]

Oh yeah, 1 more thing... I know you never want to turn away business, but you have to do something to protect yourself from these sort of situations. You may think that requiring a deposit or a written contract might make people shy away from your studio, but i have found it lends more credibility to your business.

[i to the v]

ransomRR,
thanks for your replies.
i guess i should just learn from this.
i had kind of moved on, but i saw the
artist a couple of days ago and started to
rethink all of this. i stood to earn over 6k, and it is highly likely that this album will become a grammy nominee. this group has several nominations, and one win.

[ozraves]

Originally posted by i to the v
ransomRR,
thanks for your replies.
i guess i should just learn from this.
i had kind of moved on, but i saw the
artist a couple of days ago and started to
rethink all of this. i stood to earn over 6k, and it is highly likely that this album will become a grammy nominee. this group has several nominations, and one win.

There are 50 states in the USA where the laws vary on contracts and issues such as detrimental reliance. You need to contact an attorney in your own locale to discuss a possible legal remedy.

[natpub]

Emails have been shown to be effective contractual agreements, or at minimum evidence of good faith in various court cases so far. How this might apply specifically to your situation requires an experienced music business attorney. You must also consider what bridges you may burn, or what other good will you may loose, by pursuing this case. It sounds like an expensive but well learned lesson to me. Don't feel too bad, plenty of us have learned far more expensive lessons.



--KT

[i to the v]

natpub- this is the kind of knowledge and experience that i was looking for. thanks
for the replies thus far.

[entropy]

Originally posted by Audiomonk
One simple question: Why is this in the "high-end" forum? Hopefully, one of our vigilant and gracious moderators will move it where it belongs. "The Moan Zone".

Three simple answers to your question, in the meantime:


1.) Log off internet and procure new paying work.

2.) Get a manager. If you are indeed attracting decent paying gigs you should be able to find one.

3.) Don't come to this, or any other internet posting boards for legal advice.

The list goes on.

But this is a good starting point.

AM

what a helpful chap you are Audiomonk. And all this with a post count of 1. Just wait until you ask for some help, sheesh, some people!

[Exmun]

In many states, oral contracts are as valid as written... providing you can otherwise prove the existence of the agreement. Contact an attorney licensed in your state. You still may get something. Justice will likely be hard and slow... but you never know. So go see a lawyer and consider this one to grow on.

Mitigation will be an issue. Also wether you had a meeting of the minds sufficient to form a contract. Utimately you will have to make the calculation of whether you want to risk starting a suit and possibly coming out with a loss and money spent paying a lawyer to prosecute your case. For $6k? I'm not sure what to tell you. In one sense it's a lot of money. But you gotta figure, your neighborhood attorney's going to charge you $150-$200/hr to take the case. Probably a $1500 retainer just to start. For contract cases it's kind of rare to see a contingency fee. Even for a small case, fees could end up in the (minimum) $2000-2500 range).

It's cases like yours that I can see a need for "legal advisors." Basically, licensed attorney's giving strategy and procedural direction to folks interested in prosecuting their own cases. Like access to forms for complaints, motions and advice on how and when to use them. All for perhaps an hour's time. You would then use the advice and forms, inserting your own details. Mr/Ms. Attorney would agree to later review your work and advise at a later important date.

[GilWave]

In Audiomonk's avatar, is he flipping the bird? If so, there's his attitude in a nutshell.

As for the cancellation -

Much good advice has already been posted. Ethically, a written contract is simply the paper documentation of an oral agreement in the first place.

If you have e-mails backing it up, all the better. But as the other posts point out, the cost of moving forward with legal action will likely exceed any settlement you would end up with.

It may be best to chalk the $6k up to tuition for the School of Hard Knocks and set up a 50% deposit policy as suggested by ransomRR and chromium cog.

-gil

[Waylon]

Its a crappy day indeed when we learn the reason "all those other guys" are hardasses about deposits and getting paid, and not " doing someone a favor just this once"...

I feel for ya man, hopefuly you can get the dates covered, l;ots fo good advise here, I would suggest that trying to get the money out of them will probablly do you more financial and business harm than good though..

Oh, and Audio Monk.. time to resume that vow of silence.

[i to the v]

it seems like there is a consensus here.
i really appreciate the advice. that is why i posted here. i have been lurking on the board for a year. i am a gearslut. i never had a good enough reason to post. this situation really sucks. my suspicions are all being confirmed here. i was just wondering if this happened to anyone else and what they did. verbal aggreements, email, if this would hold up.
as far as sueing is concerned, i live in a small community and i understand the damage it could do. tuition prices are absurd these days, esspecially at the SOHK. thanks again everyone.
p.s. i know no one on this board.
i was kind of stunned by audiomonks
remark, but there is still some good
advice in it too.

[entropy]

Originally posted by i to the v

i was kind of stunned by audiomonks
remark,

what can you say? There always one isn't there? It happens at my place of work, and I guess pretty much every audio establishment. Friggin' idjits! What is it about loud noises that attracts these wombats? *shakes head in disbelief*

[SpaceChild]

Originally posted by Exmun
In many states, oral contracts are as valid as written...

To my knowedge there isn't a single country on the planet where this isn't the case. The tricky part is just, as you said, proving that such an agreement exists and proving the exact terms of such an agreement.

Many times it happens that after a while people just honestly remember things differently without trying to con the other party in any way. One good way of helping you remember what you agreed upon would be to write it down on a piece of paper and have you both sign it


Spacey

[De chromium cob]

Originally posted by entropy
what can you say? There always one isn't there? It happens at my place of work, and I guess pretty much every audio establishment. Friggin' idjits! What is it about loud noises that attracts these wombats? *shakes head in disbelief*

Come on now....most of us here have posted something that came off the wrong way, or were in a bad mood while posting, ect... Cut the guy just a little slack....

[entropy]

Yes DCC, ur right, we have all posted things that have sounded off key and I've posted a shed loads when I'm in a bad mood

But I got a sneaking suspicion that this wombat is a special sort of lurker.

Or how about, that he knows I to the V? mmmmm, well maybe not. But just remember, I called it first, this guys trouble!

[ransomRR]

Originally posted by i to the v
my suspicions are all being confirmed here. i was just wondering if this happened to anyone else and what they did.

Yeah, that happened to me once......once. Fool me twice and all that.

[MattiMattMatt]

The other day, for some reason, I remembered something that happened a long time ago to me that on retrospect I would have handled differently.

A conductor friend of mine referred a friend of his to me, an old man who wanted to record his piano music. I agreed to record the music and gave him a really good deal, much lower than industry standards for what he was getting -- top notch Stienway B, Soundfield recording system, etc., and spent several more hours working on it than I billed. While most of the time was spent recording (w/ no set up charge), I spent an hour making cassette dupes for him and charged the same rate for that hour. While the rate seemed high for making cassette dupes, given the overall low rate and the hours thrown in, he came out way ahead. This was very much a favor not a profit situation.

A week later I received a poison pen letter from him angry that that the duplicating hour was charged at the same rate. He was complaining about what may have seemed like a $50 overcharge when he had received around $500 in free services. He threatened me in the letter, saying that he would tell everyone in town all sorts of awful things about me -- it was a small town, he would ruin my reputation etc. etc. (I was a student in New Haven, CT at the time).

I mailed him back the payment for that hour.

Thinking about this the other day, I wish I handled this differently. The minute he threatened me, I should have responded that I would be happy to correct any misunderstandings, but not after his threat: "refund my money or I will besmirch your reputation". Well, no! On retrospect, I am sure that everyone he would talk to would understand that he was the bad guy, not me. And if they believed him, so be it. I think at some point you just have to do what you think is right and not worry how it may play whan people talk about it. If you're honorable and can deliver the goods, people will know that and will want to work with you, and so you just can't let these fleas bog you down.

So what would I do in this case? I'd send a "kill fee" bill of $3000 and explain that this is your fee for $6000 of booked studio time not used. I'd explain that normally this would be the down payment, but because of your good relationship with them, you waived this usual requirement.

They may never pay it, and you may never pursue a claim, but at least you've made your point.

[GilWave]

Wow!

Great story (it's a shame there are so many ingrates out there) and great advice re: Kill Fee invoice.

that way, it's on the books, it's in writing, they know what they did, and it may save someone else in the future.

excellent.

-g