Talent trying to be engineer...

John Cafarella · 28th June 2002

A recent project had an overdub of some double kick playing 16ths. The drummer brought in a Roland drum trigger machine, TD something or other, and played the part using sticks on a pad. We attempted to match the sample to the recorded sound of the kick, but didn't do such a great job of it.

Anyway, comes mixdown time and these guys are saying"more double kick, more double kick...."

I use tannoy PMB6.5's an I KNOW how they sound in my room. I KNOW I've put the overdub in about the right place and that they're getting suckered by my room/speaker combo.

So, I re-eq/cracnk it up a bit to make the part stick out more, without wrecking the bottom end of the track, burn CD.

They come back a couple of days later and say"more double kick, more double kick...."

I give in, and crank the bottom end until they're raving.

I get a call last night saying "uh... we've listened to the cd at a few places and the double kick is too loud now.."

davemc · 28th June 2002

Drummers and more double kick, I did a band that did not ring back and I cannot listen to the recording as the kick is 100% loud, snare around 90% and guitar/bass and vocals in the background, hey the drummer did not play those and a song is only double kick anyway.

All I got all day was, more pedal, more pedal, I tried to rally ssupport from the other band members but the drummer ruled the ship. I soundreplaced 5 samples with his weak ass kick.

e-cue · 28th June 2002

Kinda makes you wonder what they do when they play it live.dfegad grudge

alphajerk · 28th June 2002

dfegad double kicks

Ol' Betsey · 28th June 2002

I hate the old:
I can't hear my guitar! = up guitar
But now the drums are too quiet! = up the drums
Yeah but dude, the women respond to bass! = up the bass

Then after you've gotten tired of fighting with everyone and the mix has been totally mashed...

You get a call from the singer who says his girlfriend can't hear his VOCALS!

Did I here the word DOUBLY somewhere?

Talent?

Luckily in this day and age Total Recall is pretty much total recall and you have a little more leeway but I still try to print MY "version" just in case.

Anyone remember the days of:
Guitar up mix
Guitar up/Snare up/Vocal up
Vocal up/Bass down
blah blah blah....

I'm glad things have changed. A little.

Or am I?

R.

DigitMus · 28th June 2002

I recently saw an unattributed quote from a mix engineer that went something like:
"When everybody thinks they're loudest, my job is done."
Somebody should publish a paper on 'Mix Psychology'...

Scott

Ol' Betsey · 29th June 2002

Maybe this should be a new topic?

True story...

I met a band tonight that I'd recorded their first album.

We were a bit pissed (drunk, in UK slang) and I asked them "Tell me the truth. The album that we did together, you thinks it's a bit tame, don't you? A bit too shiney, right?"

And he agreed that yes, As MUSICIANS, it was a little too shiney for them...

But he also said that the majority of people he talked to had said that they preferred the way the first album (my album) sounded compared to the second album (recorded by someone else). I know this is true because we have quite a few mutual friends that have expressed their opinions (and not just to me) regarding their preferences.

Is this a dilemna? What should you do? Work towards what the band feel is right? Or what I feel is right?

In a sense I've kind of answered my own question in that they've asked me to remix a new project of theirs (after I've told them that I'll still try to achieve MY sound) but it does kind of hurt, doesn't it?

How do you guys deal with this type of thing?

R.

Ol' Betsey · 29th June 2002

P.S.

Digitmus that is the truest thang I've ever heard...

That man was a sonic philosophist!

R.

Jay Kahrs · 3rd July 2002

I make sure that I A/B mixes to a recording that the band knows. Usually either a few songs that I have in the studio or a CD that they bring. With that there's less of a chance of them being fooled by my room and speaker combination. Recently there was a band with one song that started with four kick hits and they wanted them to "sound big and beefy" so I did that. While mixing they kept asking to add more low end and make them louder. I said that it's fine but they were insistent. So, I finally burned them a disc of the one song to listen to in the car before I finished the mix. They came back in and said it's fine, actually they might be a little too big.
grudge

John Cafarella · 3rd July 2002

Took the project to be mastered on Monday.

It sounds great. the band are very pleased with the result, the DK was sitting just right.

It came in under budget as the engineer spent less time than quoted.

All were happy

28th June 2002	#1
John Cafarella Gear interested Joined: Jun 2002 Location: Melbourne Australia Posts: 26 Thread Starter	Talent trying to be engineer... A recent project had an overdub of some double kick playing 16ths. The drummer brought in a Roland drum trigger machine, TD something or other, and played the part using sticks on a pad. We attempted to match the sample to the recorded sound of the kick, but didn't do such a great job of it. Anyway, comes mixdown time and these guys are saying"more double kick, more double kick...." I use tannoy PMB6.5's an I KNOW how they sound in my room. I KNOW I've put the overdub in about the right place and that they're getting suckered by my room/speaker combo. So, I re-eq/cracnk it up a bit to make the part stick out more, without wrecking the bottom end of the track, burn CD. They come back a couple of days later and say"more double kick, more double kick...." I give in, and crank the bottom end until they're raving. I get a call last night saying "uh... we've listened to the cd at a few places and the double kick is too loud now.." __________________ John Cafarella EOR Studio Melbourne Australia

28th June 2002	#2
davemc Lives for gear Joined: Jun 2002 Location: Melb, Australia Posts: 1,021	Drummers and more double kick, I did a band that did not ring back and I cannot listen to the recording as the kick is 100% loud, snare around 90% and guitar/bass and vocals in the background, hey the drummer did not play those and a song is only double kick anyway. All I got all day was, more pedal, more pedal, I tried to rally ssupport from the other band members but the drummer ruled the ship. I soundreplaced 5 samples with his weak ass kick. __________________ Bye Ya Dave INDENT

28th June 2002	#5
Ol' Betsey Lives for gear Joined: Jun 2002 Location: London Posts: 2,035 1 Review written	I hate the old: I can't hear my guitar! = up guitar But now the drums are too quiet! = up the drums Yeah but dude, the women respond to bass! = up the bass Then after you've gotten tired of fighting with everyone and the mix has been totally mashed... You get a call from the singer who says his girlfriend can't hear his VOCALS! Did I here the word DOUBLY somewhere? Talent? Luckily in this day and age Total Recall is pretty much total recall and you have a little more leeway but I still try to print MY "version" just in case. Anyone remember the days of: Guitar up mix Guitar up/Snare up/Vocal up Vocal up/Bass down blah blah blah.... I'm glad things have changed. A little. Or am I? R. __________________ The Speaker Snuggy is specifically designed to compensate for the additive effect of using plugins which literally remove the blanket from your speakers. These plugins can sound good when solo'd, but when used across dozens of tracks they can leave your speakers sounding cold and insecure. (Casey / Bricasti) When I haven't any blue I use red. (Pablo Picasso) Ol' Betsey Satan - The Original Flower Shop 8 track - "She fought long and she fought hard..."

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Email this Page	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
My new soundtrackish track ( trying to be massive attack)	lucai	Work In Progress / Advice Requested / Show & Tell / Artist Showcase / Mix-Offs	5	2nd July 2011 09:59 PM
trying to reamp, can fireface 800 be used as guitar signal splitter?	s34nsm411	So much gear, so little time!	6	4th May 2008 05:51 AM
Trying to Locate a Producer/Engineer	DontLetMeDrown	So much gear, so little time!	0	14th March 2007 07:21 PM
musicians trying to engineer themselves	loaf	Q & A with Kevin Killen	2	6th March 2007 12:18 AM

28th June 2002	#3
e-cue Lives for gear Joined: Jun 2002 Location: Lost Angeles Posts: 4,069	Kinda makes you wonder what they do when they play it live.dfegad grudge

28th June 2002	#4
alphajerk There is only one Joined: Jun 2002 Location: asheville NC Posts: 5,260	dfegad double kicks

28th June 2002	#6
DigitMus Lives for gear Joined: Jun 2002 Location: SouthWest Florida Posts: 732	I recently saw an unattributed quote from a mix engineer that went something like: "When everybody thinks they're loudest, my job is done." Somebody should publish a paper on 'Mix Psychology'... Scott

29th June 2002	#7
Ol' Betsey Lives for gear Joined: Jun 2002 Location: London Posts: 2,035 1 Review written	Maybe this should be a new topic? True story... I met a band tonight that I'd recorded their first album. We were a bit pissed (drunk, in UK slang) and I asked them "Tell me the truth. The album that we did together, you thinks it's a bit tame, don't you? A bit too shiney, right?" And he agreed that yes, As MUSICIANS, it was a little too shiney for them... But he also said that the majority of people he talked to had said that they preferred the way the first album (my album) sounded compared to the second album (recorded by someone else). I know this is true because we have quite a few mutual friends that have expressed their opinions (and not just to me) regarding their preferences. Is this a dilemna? What should you do? Work towards what the band feel is right? Or what I feel is right? In a sense I've kind of answered my own question in that they've asked me to remix a new project of theirs (after I've told them that I'll still try to achieve MY sound) but it does kind of hurt, doesn't it? How do you guys deal with this type of thing? R.

3rd July 2002	#10
John Cafarella Gear interested Joined: Jun 2002 Location: Melbourne Australia Posts: 26 Thread Starter	Took the project to be mastered on Monday. It sounds great. the band are very pleased with the result, the DK was sitting just right. It came in under budget as the engineer spent less time than quoted. All were happy