You Do Not Truly Own Your Waves Plugs!!

[Moo]

Hey all,

Here's a friendly warning......I recently decided to sell my Waves SSL 4000 Bundle as I have just purchased a Duende and whilst the plugs are modelled on differently SSL boards they are still pretty similar and would be overkill for a little home studio owner like me. Besides this would allow me to free up some cash to buy other goodies.....

So I check in with iLok (I have two Waves Bundles on mine plus other plugs) who tell me that Waves don't allow them to transfer onwership of their plugs. Ok, that's cool. These companies don't want to make it completely easy; they have to make money. So I do the right thing and check in with Waves about how to sell my SSL 4000 bundle. Keep in mind that I paid $700 US for them and am assuming that I truly own these and that like any other piece of kit, I can sell em if I want! WRONG!

Here's what I have to do:

1) Pay Waves $150 US so that the new owner can have access to the Waves update plan and transfer ownership (I'm cool with that, although pretty expensive....)

2) Fax "a signed statement to 615 523 3209 stating that all licenses, materials and iLok key(s), if applicable, have been or will be transferred. They must include their name, the new user’s name, and the exact registered serial numbers of the products being transferred, and state that they are no longer using the software being transferred". Ok....that seems reasonable.....

3) Oh sorry, did you say "transfer the iLok to the new owner"? Yes, you have to give the new owner the iLok that the Waves plug-in is located on. Mmmmm, this is getting difficult. That means I have to buy and iLok ($50 US) and trasnfer the iLok ownership ($25) and pay for postage to the new owner.....so now I'm up for $225 on a sale of mayber $600 if I'm lucky.....

BUT WAIT, THERE'S MORE......

Because you can't remove a Waves plug once it has been added to an iLok it also means that additional Waves plugs/bundles cannot be separated!!!!! So if I want to sell my SSL bundle, I basically have to give away my Musicians bundle as well!!! No this p##ed me off!!

So here's the suggestion from Waves:


"The only workaround for splitting up your SSL bundle and your Musician’s 2 Bundle would be to mail in the iLok key to be destroyed. Upon receiving your iLok we would destroy it and then reset your account as though you have never authorized. This would allow you to authorize the Musician’s 2 Bundle to a different iLok, and sell the SSL bundle following the steps in my previous e-mails.

I do not suggest this workaround because the price of shipping and purchasing a new iLok will probably make it prohibitive.

If you do decide to go this route please let me know and I know provide you with an address to send the iLok. Note that Waves cannot be held responsible for iLoks lost during shipping. To help prevent loss, we recommend that you use Federal Express, or another similar shipping service that issues a tracking number and records a signature on delivery. Also, please take care to use appropriate packaging. An ordinary paper envelope is NOT strong enough."

So the moral to the story is "If you buy Waves software, you do not truly own it!"

I'm sure there was something about this in the licencing agreement but who reads those.........

Anyway, here's a big to Waves!!

[TheArchitect]

Welcome to last year. You don't own any of your software, Waves or anything else. You are a licensed user, not an owner.

[Energie]

yeah my friend, there are a ton of threads of the pro's and cons of wavs bisness model, without making this yet another one I will hold my tounge

[Chaellus]

thats why hardware is better
1) they last you a lifetime
2) you dont have to upgrade to a new version or OS
3) the sound better 98% of the time..
4) they only cost you once and after that your the soul owner

[BrianT]

And why do they make life so difficult for an honest customer? (probably former customer now).

Because, by selling your expensive plugins, you have just become a competitor to them. They do not want the other guy to buy from you. They want him to buy from Waves.

The way I see it, Waves and companies with similar draconian practices, are playing fast and loose with the legitimate intent of software copy protection in order to give themselves the means to increase their sales by depriving honest customers of their ability to sell a used product that they paid hundreds, or thousands of dollars for. Fault the UAD-1 card if you want to, but it is a physical piece of gear with specific plugins tied to that hardware. You can actually sell the thing if you like. Huge difference, as illustrated by this thread.

I don't care what the legal language on the package says, I believe Waves' consistent actions comprise a class action lawsuit waiting to be won by the consumer. Waves has exhibited a pattern of customer abuse, IMO, and I believe that there is a judge or jury somewhere who would see it that way.

It's been years since I bought or recommended Waves for exactly that reason. Well, that plus the fact that UAD-1 plugs slay theirs sonically, IMO.

[Soldier777c]

+1 indeed on the UAD plugs as well. Just added the SPL T.D. and VCA VU plugs recently, superior stuff.

It's companies like UA that make you say "What's the point?" to companies like Waves. They make some nice plug-ins themselves, but at the cost of your firstborn . . . ? To many fish in the sea. I have a Gold bundle that I never renewed, or rather never allowed Waves to WUP me over. Who cares?

[Vietstylistic]

Without saying too much about Waves. UAD-1 is the way to go.

[cynics1207]

im waves free. 3 uad 1e card and soon to be with the metric halo uln-2 / 2D card. im free from WUP.

[TitaniumG]

No more waves for me I am cutting off all the company's that on people. I feel much better now, Akai was the first one to go because no last update for the MPC 4000 now waves I can wast any more time on these company's. I am making money and music still and that's what matters . WHO IS NEXT!

[Kadden Heart]

man,...what a horrible story.
i've not heard sometihng that bad!!

as of tonight i just saw eddie kramer (awesome) talking about the studio classics collection,...it convinced me to buy it,..but now,...i don't know.

that's horrible.

by the way,...what's with the andy wallace picture?
lol

[narcoman]

Originally Posted by Chaellus

thats why hardware is better
1) they last you a lifetime
2) you dont have to upgrade to a new version or OS
3) the sound better 98% of the time..
4) they only cost you once and after that your the soul owner

soul oner - eek

Yeah - Waves policies can be a bit weird. However this is also the poilicy of Apple OSX and Windows - you an't sell 'em cuz you don't own em. It's also true of a lot of software. And very much true of many sample libraries.

[triez]

There are so many great alternatives out there, I don't understand why anyone would subject themselves to dealing with Waves.

[jinksdingo]

Oh come on, I know this is the moan zone but come on!
Money comes into your possession but you don't own it either! Hahaha!
Nor does Waves! Hahahe

This is one of those grey areas of copyright law similar to where you cannot loan or sell a copy of a book you buy.
A friend of mine recently pointed out that Software companies like Waves only make one master program of the software and from then on out are selling copies of it.
Now lets go back to the book! It too is authored and it's copies are way more costly to reproduce than a DVD copy of a computer program.
Fair enough there is R&D in software but realistically the price is prohibitive to most of the world.
This is why software developers like Reaper deserve support even if you only ever load a copy on a bootable flash drive, just in case you need/want a portable DAW in your pocket.

[T_R_S]

There is a super easy way to transfer/sell your Waves plug-ins for free ( other than the fed-ex cost to ship the ilok to the new owner )
It's costs nothing and it's totally legal and your account Waves recognizes the transfer.
The catch is that ALL you waves plug-ins will go the new owner you would not be able to sell just one bundle or single plug-ins.
All you do is sell your entire Waves Account and Waves ilok. The new ownwer gets the Waves account password and ilok. The new owner then changes the accont contact information.

[psycho_monkey]

Originally Posted by T_R_S

There is a super easy way to transfer/sell your Waves plug-ins for free ( other than the fed-ex cost to ship the ilok to the new owner )
It's costs nothing and it's totally legal and your account Waves recognizes the transfer.
The catch is that ALL you waves plug-ins will go the new owner you would not be able to sell just one bundle or single plug-ins.
All you do is sell your entire Waves Account and Waves ilok. The new ownwer gets the Waves account password and ilok. The new owner then changes the accont contact information.

...the one downside being they can't register that ilok with iLok.com themselves for other plugs. Pretty small downside I suppose!

[Duardo]

...the one downside being they can't register that ilok with iLok.com themselves for other plugs. Pretty small downside I suppose!

Yes, and it's actually a good idea to have your Waves plugins on a separate iLok anyhow since they handle things a little differently than just about everyone else...in case something goes wrong you're better off having them separate.

[d1rtynyc]

Originally Posted by TheArchitect

Welcome to last year. You don't own any of your software, Waves or anything else. You are a licensed user, not an owner.

The nail has been hit on the head!

[wallace]

Originally Posted by triez

There are so many great alternatives out there, I don't understand why anyone would subject themselves to dealing with Waves.

[Jay-]

Voxengo needs to hire a new GUI guy because face it, there GREAT PLUGS but look like ass! Aleksey Vaneev is also a great guy and takes customers advice all the time.

Makes me want to buy something from him just thinking about it.

[sweetmojo]

Originally Posted by narcoman

soul oner - eek

Yeah - Waves policies can be a bit weird. However this is also the poilicy of Apple OSX and Windows - you an't sell 'em cuz you don't own em. It's also true of a lot of software. And very much true of many sample libraries.

Αctually that's not true. I spoke with Apple very recently about that and you can definitely sell, or buy for that matter, Apple software and the license is fully transferable, even if it has been registered by the previous owner, as long as you abide by the license legalize (meaning, the previous owner has uninstalled the software from their machines, etc.)

[davidwilson]

Well as I have recently discovered SONNOX is exactly the same and I had to purchase the product before reading the user agreement.

I have stayed away from waves for so long but just got caught out by another scum company.