Im Sick Of All The So Called Pros

[Icecoldr]

I have been reading these posts for a long time now and I'm sick of folks telling guys that don't know any better that if they get this or that gear, it will make their music sound more like a store bought CD. The truth is that you got to know what you are doing. The bottom line is that there's nothing you can buy that will take you from newbe to pro. It takes time to get that pro sound . I can put someone in the (Hit Factory) with all that high end gear, but that doesn't mean they will mix a CD that sounds like a "50 cent," CD. Come on man, some of the guys that mix those CD's have been mixing for like 30 years. Just to touch on one more thing, recording studios back in the 50's and 60's didn't have half the cool gear we have in our bedrooms today. They still made hits that live on today. The truth is, you can get a great sound with a $100 pre amp and Protools LE; then do that. There are no rules, so don't think you can't make a great song even if you don't have all that high end gear these guys talk about . My lil bro, (KILLA TRAKZ), makes some of the best music on the internet with a small amount of gear and it has a great sound . It would blow your mind away at what he does with this gear that some of you on this site would call, "low end gear". (LET ME KNOW YOUR THOUGHTS)


PS. Let this vintage thing go, and I bet most of you have a HDTV in your house; why because it shows a better picture . So why can't todays gear be as good or better than the gear of the past?

[nojus]

word up.

[Beyersound]

Originally Posted by Icecoldr

I have been reading these posts for a long time now and I'm sick of folks telling guys that don't know any better that if they get this or that gear, it will make their music sound more like a store bought CD. The truth is that you got to know what you are doing. The bottom line is that there's nothing you can buy that will take you from newbe to pro. It takes time to get that pro sound . I can put someone in the (Hit Factory) with all that high end gear, but that doesn't mean they will mix a CD that sounds like a "50 cent," CD. Come on man, some of the guys that mix those CD's have been mixing for like 30 years. Just to touch on one more thing, recording studios back in the 50's and 60's didn't have half the cool gear we have in our bedrooms today. They still made hits that live on today. The truth is, you can get a great sound with a $100 pre amp and Protools LE; then do that. There are no rules, so don't think you can't make a great song even if you don't have all that high end gear these guys talk about . My lil bro, (KILLA TRAKZ), makes some of the best music on the internet with a small amount of gear and it has a great sound . It would blow your mind away at what he does with this gear that some of you on this site would call, "low end gear". (LET ME KNOW YOUR THOUGHTS)


PS. Let this vintage thing go, and I bet most of you have a HDTV in your house; why because it shows a better picture . So why can't todays gear be as good or better than the gear of the past?

+1 +1 +1!!!!!! I am one of those guys who has been doing it almost 30yrs, the first song I had on a platinum record was tracked in a bedroom through dynamic mics and a small live console (through the onboard pres!) onto a 1/4 inch 8 track. You can do great things with carefully chosen lower end and midrange gear. I have been flamed for mixing ITB and saying you don't need a vintage console or have to have Protools HD as your DAW to make a great sounding record. You are as right as anyone can be that "there are no rules"! That's why a lot of those great records happened back in the 50s and 60s, because people either didn't know, or were breaking "the rules". They didn't start at Motown or at EMI (with the Beatles) with the best gear or newest gear, and they certainly didn't follow the rules, but those records speak for themselves!

[Igotsoul4u]

Yeah. The good dudes get lost in the crowd way to easily. Ever since protools got portable my tracking work has dropped by at least 80%. All the little extras dried up. Oh well. Come visit me at walmart!!!!! hhaaaha. never. I'll die on my macpro first.

[bgrotto]

Originally Posted by Icecoldr

I have been reading these posts for a long time now and I'm sick of folks telling guys that don't know any better that if they get this or that gear, it will make their music sound more like a store bought CD. The truth is that you got to know what you are doing. The bottom line is that there's nothing you can buy that will take you from newbe to pro. It takes time to get that pro sound . I can put someone in the (Hit Factory) with all that high end gear, but that doesn't mean they will mix a CD that sounds like a "50 cent," CD. Come on man, some of the guys that mix those CD's have been mixing for like 30 years. Just to touch on one more thing, recording studios back in the 50's and 60's didn't have half the cool gear we have in our bedrooms today. They still made hits that live on today. The truth is, you can get a great sound with a $100 pre amp and Protools LE; then do that. There are no rules, so don't think you can't make a great song even if you don't have all that high end gear these guys talk about . My lil bro, (KILLA TRAKZ), makes some of the best music on the internet with a small amount of gear and it has a great sound . It would blow your mind away at what he does with this gear that some of you on this site would call, "low end gear". (LET ME KNOW YOUR THOUGHTS)


PS. Let this vintage thing go, and I bet most of you have a HDTV in your house; why because it shows a better picture . So why can't todays gear be as good or better than the gear of the past?

I'm with you on this, but I gotta address your "PS". First and foremost: I friggin' WISH I had a HDTV in my house. OK. Now...Today's gear CAN be as good or better than the gear of the past, but much of it isn't, and the reasons why are simple. One big one is the manufacturing process. A lot of contemporary gear is manufactured by a robot, in numbers in the millions, using parts that are lower quality and cost pennies cheaper because pennies multiplied by millions is a lotta scratch. A lotta the gear we GSers pop boners for is hand-wired, hand-built shit (new and old). Very expensive, and difficult to make in large quantities.

Another reason is the "prosumer" market. Gear made above the lowest standard, but still within reach of the hobbyist or budget-minded.

A third reason relates to the two above, but in a broader sense. A lot of the parts that go into "classic" gear are no longer made (for example, the classic Marinair tranny found in classic Neve gear), due to manufacturing restrictions and other factors, such as changes in law. Some of those parts are quite desirable, sonically speaking, and only available in vintage units.

A final reason: manufacturers often make revisions to perfectly amazing pieces of gear, utterly ruining them in the process (read Al Davis of API's most excellent rants on the subject). Thus, the older units become more desirable.

Just thought I'd throw it out there. Anyway, it's all just tools. And if you suck, you suck. A better hammer won't make me be able to build a house...

[Reptil]

I can feel the positive idea and I agree with it.
And there is so much that can be done now with only a computer and some good software or a small modern setup in the hands of a capable producer.

What you're saying about gear not being new and top tech in the past is not true, don't discard what happened before, because of what is possible now.
Stuff made in the fifties, sixties and seventies was made by very good craftsmen (engineers), with large budgets and it was cutting edge back then. (EMI, CBS etc. etc.) No, the musicians and producers didn't follow the rules, since there weren't any, because their music was so new. But there were rules about operating the equipment, especially at EMI! Guys in labcoats and stuff.

That "old" gear still sounds really special, but should that keep you from doing something great now? Or empower you to do something great? A good point is that a lot that ppl. take for granted now back then was groundbreaking, experimental, and it should be like that now too. And that is the real difference isn't it? The people that experiment and come up with some really new and fresh stuff, don't get to make it often to the big league. If only a beat is slightly different, a whole lot of people start to complain about it. WTF is up with that? Music needs change, development, especially hiphop. (IMHO) OTOH there's always a percentage of garbage music, now and in the past.

It's a great experience to work with great gear, ideas get form so much faster, bottom line though it is never a guarantee for inspiration.

[Trell Blaze]

while I agree with the idea of the thread here, I don't recall any respected posters here claiming that some "magic box" will take u to the other level. in fact they preach the same idea: that its more about the user than anything else.

[Ken Lewis]

My two most important pieces of gear, in no particular order

1. My Left Ear
2. My Right Ear

My next three most important pieces of gear

3. My Brain, which harbors the experience of having done over 1,000 professional mixes in my career, as well as my production experience and musical vocabulary
4. My Heart which pumps the soul and vibe of the music through my veins
5. My gut, which gives me instinct that over the years I've learned to follow.

Those are my five most important pieces of gear and i take them to every session i do.

Having said all that, I'll be honest about gear. While i could probably deliver a pretty good mix on a native LE system, it probably wouldnt generally hold a candle to what i can do on my full blown HD Accel 4 rig and my SSL and my mountain of ....dare i say it.... mostly VINTAGE gear.

Vintage gear is often called vintage because its withstood the test of time. Behringer will never be vintage gear. My Nuemann Mastering EQ's (of which a couple Led Zepplin albums were mastered, not by me) are the purest, most open EQ's on the top end i may have ever heard. My Sontec EQ is godlike. no plugin comes close, not even my beloved BX Digital plugin.

The toys do definitely help in getting all the way to "PRO". but yes, if you've got skill and you take some care in what your doing, you can make some pretty amazing sounds with some pretty inexpensive gear. Some of my favorite soft synths and plugins are super cheap.

-Ken Lewis

[Trell Blaze]

Originally Posted by Ken Lewis

...my full blown HD Accel 4 rig and my SSL and my mountain of ....dare i say it.... mostly VINTAGE gear.

I hate you so much...

Behringer will never be vintage gear.

Come on, man. That was so unecessary. That's like looking at a mermaid and saying "She'll never be an Olympic sprinter..."

[beat you down]

it's called gearslutz.

[lpuma]

When I first found this website a few years ago... I though mackie was kinda "high end" ... no I knew about ssl, api, neve... but all that wasnt really clear in my head. this website helped me a lot... so I bought a lil amek instead of a mackie... n I bought a neumann instead of a SE... things like that, it does not make my beats any better but I think my voices takes could be worse (when I was tracking with a bellari pre and an AT mic my takes where worse in fact, the AT is a cool mic but that bellari box was strait crap, even built in mic prez in m audio interfaces sound better imo).

But what I learned here is to know when I'm at a good studio talking with a real engineer... cause there's a lot of "hip hop studios" n "engineers" that will take your money for a non so good service. I've paid for sessions in a mackie board/u87/mindprint pre/ beginner engineer studio when I was younger n I could have had a better service for the same money (n I though it was a top notch studio cause of that holly grail neumann mic )... so no I'm not tied of the pros (yeah sometimes there's some contempt and superiority complex from some dudes but I dont give a shyt... the same dudes with you in front of them, especially as clients would be like... super cool... lol, it's like that, it's the internet...)

[Keyflo]

I mean your right in a sense, but think about it, if you have all that gear you will have a much warmer, analog sound. It a reaosn why those protools LE pre amps are $100, they are not class A pre amps, it doesn't have AD/DA inputs and outputs.


Project producers are always worried about mixing great quality trax; so much that they complain about having no gear. I think that's why you are sick of hearing people complain about "OH if i had blah blah blah, My mixes would sound way better."

That extra gear is kinda of essential though, i mean if you had it, you would tell the difference. Each peice of gear is crafted differently, you cant the same sound out of them.

[Keyflo]

Originally Posted by beat you down

it's called gearslutz.

+1, this is called gearslutz, the point of these forums are to share your knowledge about gear, not to rant down on it....

I wonder if there's a Softwareslutz.com, probably is

[Killah_Trakz]

Originally Posted by Keyflo

+1, this is called gearslutz, the point of these forums are to share your knowledge about gear, not to rant down on it....

I wonder if there's a Softwareslutz.com, probably is

hi my name is trakz and I have 4tb filled with refills, vsti's and other misc junk lol. Or a software anonymous hotline., would be super cool.

[jbuehler]

Originally Posted by beat you down

it's called gearslutz.

EXACTLY!!

The argument in this thread is classic B.S. around here and we have heard it all before.

Problem is WE ALL AGREE WITH YOU...how could we not?

This place is callec Gearslutz so if you get tired of people spouting their opinions on gear than leave because that is what this place is all about.

Who gives a shit about this philosophical mumbo jumbo that nobody can argue with?

I use what I have just like you and I use gearslutz to research what I hope to buy in the future.

You can make hit records with the basics any pro would be the first to admit that.

However, you can't say that a samaurai should use a butter knife because a butter knife will get the job done if it needs to.....that is just stupid right?

All you whiners that want Heads to tell you Behringer is okay or what not need to grow some nuts and practice what you preach.



Also, who are these people that claim to be pro around here and spout knoledge like they know EVERYTHING and their opinion is the end all?

I keep seeing newbies whining about them but I am yet to see such an ego around here at all.

It seems the newbies have problems when people don't agree with them........get over it.

If you want to make a hit record on cheap gear than do it! I don't care what you use if it sounds good! Nobody does! Not even the supposed big bad pros that lurk around here crushing your dreams or whatever...

[Henchman]

I mix on my Laptop with Nuendo, 4 UAD-1 cards and a set of $50,- Logitech speakers.

I'm totallyhappy with the mixes I get. be it music or Post.
As happy as when I was working on SSL's etc.

[Fman]

What's REALLY frustrating is going back to mixes I did 10 years ago on a PC with 512MB of RAM with...I think Cakewalk XL, using a $100 interface with sh#t converters and pres and an SM58. The frustration occurs when a those songs smoke work I'm doing now after mixing and editing for hours with vastly better gear by every regard.

[azwun25]

Originally Posted by Fman

What's REALLY frustrating is going back to mixes I did 10 years ago on a PC with 512MB of RAM with...I think Cakewalk XL, using a $100 interface with sh#t converters and pres and an SM58. The frustration occurs when a those songs smoke work I'm doing now after mixing and editing for hours with vastly better gear by every regard.

Not for nothing but, you're doing something wrong. I can see being impressed with old work as most of us have gone through that but that the old work "smokes" you're new stuff, something is wrong. Just a guess but, did you work for Sweetwater back then? Odds are that Sweetwater University fukked you all up. Just kidding, I had to...no disrespect intended.

[Henchman]

For em it's the opposite feeling.
I love the fact that I can get better results, faster, sitting at my kitchen table.
he only thing I've had to upgrade in the last 4 years is my laptop.
Now and then I'll buy another UAd-1 plug-in. But that's it.

[Spookym15]

Originally Posted by Icecoldr

PS. Let this vintage thing go, and I bet most of you have a HDTV in your house; why because it shows a better picture . So why can't todays gear be as good or better than the gear of the past?

I have a older HD TV that still has the digital pic, but the analog tube in it. I prefer the warm glow then the harshness of digital. Best $200 bucks I ever spent, thanks to a friend who was moving.

But on a serious note, those plug ins usually emulate the real gear. It is all on what you want to do and what you prefer. I like plug ins because they are cheap and you can throw a bunch on one track.

[Fman]

Originally Posted by azwun25

Not for nothing but, you're doing something wrong. I can see being impressed with old work as most of us have gone through that but that the old work "smokes" you're new stuff, something is wrong. Just a guess but, did you work for Sweetwater back then? Odds are that Sweetwater University fukked you all up. Just kidding, I had to...no disrespect intended.

LOL none taken. I was back in NC spending MUCH more time on actually playing, so that's what I mean by the difference. It's mostly just a skill thing; I don't practice much and so there's no covering for that in the mix. Maybe I exaggerated a shred, but it's amazing what well done music can make crappy gear sound like. I work on some other folks stuff now too, so of course I can get a bit jaded.

Man I gotta say though the University helped though. There are some guys here I just have to shut up and perk my ears to when they're around (some work here). Eddie Kramer came out a while back, and I've gotten a chance to meet cats like Paul Reed Smith, Roger Nichols, Peter Montessi, and of course Wes Dooley. All great guys, all extremely formative to my thoughts on audio.

[picksail]

This should be in the "Good News" section. Glad someone gets it.

[Tone Laborer]

Of course, that hasn't stopped you from accumulating a huge assortment of high end gear, Picksail.

[Jay-]

Im using all prosumer stuff, people loved my music videos (PD-150) professionals with contracts on myspace ask why my stuff sounds so much better on myspace then theirs,

And I use what most on this forum would consider "low grade prosumer trash"

Trashy pre amps if they can even be called pre amps, (M-audio) im buying up more and more M-audio stuff just to "get the job done"

My Mic is $200, untreated room.

I do think its not possible to use a squire strat and a solid state amp and get a good tone though, but a $99 tube amp and new pickups could sound as good as a $2000 strat, might not stay in tune long..

Im pro sumer trash heaven.

[area51recording]

IMHO the 2 most important factors are:

1) the skill level of the source being recorded

2) the skill level of the engineer

sexiness of the gear involved is a non factor until you have the first 2. A piece of tripe recorded on $1,000,000 gear is is still a piece pf tripe.

[olivia_nb]

Originally Posted by Jay-

Im using all prosumer stuff, people loved my music videos (PD-150) professionals with contracts on myspace ask why my stuff sounds so much better on myspace then theirs,

c'mon, at least put your myspace link in your signature if you're going to say that, I want to hear it!

[Spookym15]

Originally Posted by Jay-

Im using all prosumer stuff, people loved my music videos (PD-150) professionals with contracts on myspace ask why my stuff sounds so much better on myspace then theirs,

And I use what most on this forum would consider "low grade prosumer trash"

Trashy pre amps if they can even be called pre amps, (M-audio) im buying up more and more M-audio stuff just to "get the job done"

My Mic is $200, untreated room.

I do think its not possible to use a squire strat and a solid state amp and get a good tone though, but a $99 tube amp and new pickups could sound as good as a $2000 strat, might not stay in tune long..

Im pro sumer trash heaven.

wow. Room treatment is one of those very important things you do. I do wonder how long some people have been doing this to know if their ear is actually developed to hear a difference in a vocal recorded in a treated room and an untreated room. Also the vocal quality with a great signal chain.

M-Audio stuff is not awful, I have never been impressed by the sound. I want a sound that is different. The problem with the M-Audio stuff is that it sounds boring bland, and 90% of the semi pro stuff out there. While I dont think a name is everything, I still notice a quality in high end equipment.

I do think your last statement about the guitar is ridiculous. Being a guitar player for 12 years I feel I can contribute to this. A $99 amp is going to sound like a $99 amp (noisey in a bad way, underpowered, and thin). Now if you are playing that $2000 strat through the $99 amp then it will still sound trashy. Also if you have $2000 invested into a $99 amp then your priorities are all screwed up.

Note:I realize that I am throwing you in there, it is not directed towards anyone I am just in the moment. Please dont think I am attacking you. If you are happy then that is good, I am curious to hear your stuff.

[pigcat]

Know what, it's professional hair stylist/barber who inspired me about how to get full potential out of tools.

A noob barber need all sorts of scissors/cutter to cut your hair and changing them all the time, but the outcome will never be as good as a professional hair stylist, where he/she usually need just ONE scissor.