Neumann U67 Reissue - Is it TRUE?

[TheMarqueeYears]

I actually sing too!!!! Wow !! (not very well though)

.... ahhh the whole point in one sentence ..........................................

and here my children ends the lesson from Uncle Bob.

Speaking as a professional vocalist and vocal coach of 20 years, who does sing well, very very well, that I'm thankful that there is more to choose from than the TLM range of mics if you want the older Neumann sound.

Pervayers of the art like Mike Wunder and Mr Wagner, Dave Bock et al create something very special at a price for the discerning professional.

For hand made capsules, hand wound transformers, hand selected tubes, and hand soldered point to point electronics come to gether to create a very special tool "for capturing something very special" .... a beautiful human voice - rich in harmonics, powerful and soulful.

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhh ........ I feel all carm now.

Peace
TMY

[Dan]

Aaron,
You've wasted days, and thousands of words defending a company, and a product you haven't heard. You complain that naysayers don't have any real reasons for their negative comments, but you consistently egg them on. Why?
Again, here's a few of my complaints regarding current Neumann Mics:
1. While the current capsule design for mics such as the TLM 103 allow for an excelent S/N ratio, the resulting off axis response makes them less usable for multi mic situations.
2. Many of Neumann's current microphones are overly bright, and harsh sounding. I believe they may be designed this way to stand out in basic A-B tests, but the unnatural quality of it doesn't lend itself to better recordings.
3. Neumann's product development over the past ten or more years has centered around mid-line microphones. That has developed increasingly cheap designs that get further, and further away from what the brand is founded on. Neumann microphones from the 40's through the 60's were extremely expensive. They were hand built, tuned pieces of technology/art. The company may be getting better at making money, and the tools they manufacture are probably more consistent, and reliable. Sadly, these are short term gains, because these designs are not as serviceable as the old designs, and once they do break, it's a question of mass part replacement. It's disposable technology. For instance, once one of those tiny surface mount caps fail, the board will be cheaper to replace than the labor to find, and replace one of the parts. (I suppose that's ok though, engineers in the future won't know how to replace a cap anyway.) The point is, if the company was primarily concerned with building the worlds best sounding microphones, as it apparently historically was, the product line would look much different. Tube circuit emulation? srsly? I have reservations about the current state of surface mount, integrated circuit technology, and its affect on the quality of signal. Add to that some sort of distortion generating circuit, and it simply doesn't make sense.


I can't wait to make recordings reminiscent of great recordings. Not an actual great recording, but it kinda reminds me of one.


All that said, the U67 at the time bucked the trend in condenser mics with the absence of a pronounced HF rise. I hope that's where they're going with this. It may yet be a usefull tool. Maybe when the TLM 67 ships you can take pictures of the capsules side by side to see if they are remotely similar. Maybe even post some samples?

I consider $1500ish a mid-line microphone. There are many options in that market. I haven't found one that replaces a U67, and I doubt that the TLM 67 will do so. If it's sub $2k, that puts it up against the AT 4060, Geffel UMT 70, MA-200, KSM-32, C-48, Brauner Phanthera, , Phantom Classic, RFT M16, AK 47, 2247, and many, many, more. The odds that it is either the best sounding, or even the best value are low.

p.s. John, thanks for enlightening me to RF condenser mics. Fascinating stuff. Is Sennheiser the only manufacturer building those mics?

[Dan]

language, children.

and do you mean "w h o r esh#t? That's low. lol

[TheMarqueeYears]

[quote=studio1117;2045631]

Originally Posted by TheMarqueeYears

.... ahhh the whole point in one sentence ..........................................

and here my children ends the lesson from Uncle Bob.


Well no obviously the lesson is just starting. lesson #1. Read the entire forum before spouting off. As I posted earlier I've been a live performer for over 20 years playing over a 100 shows a year as the lead singer and while I've never had a "vocal coach"
I perform a hell of a lot, probably way more than you and people pay to see it as awful as it may be. So your argument on vocal mics as if it were something to pay attention is pure horeshit in my eyes.

ooh ooh

Let's post clips of our voices using our respective mics.

I'd love to hear your voice .... maybe you'd like to hear mine.

Yes that would be great, don't you think.

Rob

[Empty Planet]

1117. Dude. You are completely unhinged.

Apparently civility is not a respected quality in your part of the world.

You set up a standard for measuring posts that everyone is apparently supposed to fall in line with, and then rant and rail when your arbitrary standard is not met. You lather at the mouth about others' logic while failing to see the holes in your own.

Your opinions and the opinions of those who agree with you are, in your view, the only ones of any merit, while any other opinion is worthy only of a torrent of personal abuse, adolescent gutter language and schoolyard bullying.

You remind me of that Bomb Factory guy, years ago. You do more damage to your business every time you open your mouth than a thousand anti-TLM posts ever could.

[TheMarqueeYears]

[quote=studio1117;2045693]

Originally Posted by TheMarqueeYears

So because 1 mic works for your "most beautiful voice in the world" and 1 mic works for my "worst voice in the world" I should use your mic because it works better for my voice? I'm wondering was your whole purpose of posting to get into a dick size competition? Mike Jackson sings into an Sm7 & Bono an Sm58 is your voice better than theirs? I think the whole different horses discussion has been had so many times around here it needs not even be discussed. So what is your point again?
Let me also add an edit to this: Where in my posts did I say my voice was good? I did say I get paid a bit to use it and I work probably more than you (maybe not for more money) but I work a lot with it. What part of that draws you to a duel at dawn with me? And again..your addition to the discussion of the new TLM67 or Neumann or why people post BS instead of useful posts is what?

Actually I was just trying out being childish - you make it look fun.

But come on ... relax this is getting out of hand, wer'e talking about mics here. Let's step back a little. I really don't want to argue with you - really I don't.

Peace
Rob

[John Willett]

Originally Posted by Dan

p.s. John, thanks for enlightening me to RF condenser mics. Fascinating stuff. Is Sennheiser the only manufacturer building those mics?

Yes - other manufacturers tried in the 60's, but when FETs came out went back to the AF design because it was easier and what they were used to.

Sennheiser had no history of making AF mics and so persisted with the RF principle as they saw the advantages of a lower noise floor, damp immunity and non attraction of dust. It's more complicated to design, though.

RF mics don't have the colour of AF mics and tend to be a lot more neutral and revealing - which is why I like them. They also tend to have a better (ie: goes lower) bottom end.

[Dan]

Originally Posted by studio1117

Complete bullshit and not what I'm "defending" anyway. What I'm bitching about has nothing to do with Neumann at all. For the last time. GO BACK AND READ THE POSTS!!! I'm arguing the fact that most of the negative posts have come from people simply making a blanket statement about a company and not including any real evidence about what they are saying. Try this...go back and read the posts..all of them and remove the Neumann name. You'll see my post are simply asking what we all want and that is if you are going to post...make it worth while. To simply say something sucks without a real reason is a complete waste of time and storage space. Have I made it clear enough for you? Do you enjoy reading line after line from people who's only contribution is to say something sucks and not give any real world evidence? Your argument to me would suggest that's what you prefer. I should edit and at least mention you yourself did actually include some genuine information.

I have read all the posts. Including 42 of yours not having any information on this mic, and complaining about other peoples posts. (What fantastic irony) While you're at it, why don't you go police all the people who say Behringer sucks without giving valid reasons.

That's right, I dropped the b word. thread over.

[TheMarqueeYears]

If this were Klaus' forum 90% would be gone, edited for stupid blanket statements like "new Neumann sucks" without any real talk about why.

Reminds me of an old joke ... how does it go.

Man to prostitute: I'll give you $20 for a bl*w job

Prostitute to man: "$20! .... what do you think I am!"

Man to Prostitute: "I know what you are - I'm just haggling over the price"



TMY

[Dan]

I didn't mean to offend, and I didn't say there is anything wrong with being retarded. I love you just the way you are. (ok, now I meant to offend you, but hey, I'm here also.)

The funny part is, I know a few people with Down's syndrome. They have a sense of humor. I'm kind of sad that you're missing that, leaving you only to be "pissed off"


Enough of that, let's talk more about how current Neumann mics suck.

[TonyBelmont]

Originally Posted by studio1117

Yes. I'd love it if the moderators did their jobs too, but they don't seem to want to. Hence 42 post about people staying on target.

It seems kind of ridiculous to blame your rants on Tobias Lindell and Michael Wagener.

What exactly were they suppose to moderate? I'm not sure how you can blame them for all of your crazy posts about Neumann.

Do you expect them to delete the posts of everyone who doesn't agree with your position on Neumann's TLM series?

A lot of people disagree with everything you are saying (dare I say most people in this thread at least).... They have the right to express themselves about this microphone and any other piece of gear... If they think it sucks because it is a transformer-less design, or because it doesn't have a tube, or because it is ugly as hell... that is their right.

[Meriphew]

Originally Posted by studio1117

Of course you failed to find the flawed logic in your own post. But hey let's take it a step forward, if Neumann is so overpriced...please then explain how $4500 for your elux251 is some sort of bargain. Mind you I'm not putting down the elux mic, I'm merely asking you to explain how it can be OK to spend $4500 if your friend can get better results using the Beta 58 on an elux 251 (your staements, not mine) and yet everybody who buys a TLM series mic that works for them must be wrong? OH I know why...you own the elux and not the Neumann...so it's sort of be true to your school not really and informed statement.

Have you tried an Elux 251? I'm assuming you haven't. That would explain you asking me why I think it is worth the money. It sounds phenomenal on most of the singers I've used it on. Yes Aaron, I own some Neumann mics. I know it's shocking, but you aren't the only one in the world who does.

I'm also curious as to whether or not you've used any mics by Bock/Soundelux, Wunder, Brauner, or Gefell.

[Meriphew]

Originally Posted by studio1117

now I know why many have left gearslutz taking their excellent informative posts with them.

Many? List them. I'm only aware of one big name guest engineer who was, unfortunately, scared off. Though I think the person who was the main culprit was eventually banned. I think a very very large percentage of people have come here, and stayed here. I don't think somebody having a different opinion is going to scare most people away.

[Duardo]

The thought of the TLM67's transformerless design having anything to do with pushing the boundaries of modern microphone design is laughable.
It's clearly designed to cut costs, yet still convince folks they are getting something that sounds just like a U67.

I don't know, the TLM170 is priced the same as a U87, and there are plenty of other high-end transformerless microphones on the market as well...to some people they sound great (whether they're "pushing the boundaries" is another matter).

And I don't think that Neumann claimed that this microphone is going to sound "just like" a U67, and they've made it a different color to differentiate it from the U67 and U87...

A lot of people disagree with everything you are saying (dare I say most people in this thread at least).... They have the right to express themselves about this microphone and any other piece of gear... If they think it sucks because it is a transformer-less design, or because it doesn't have a tube, or because it is ugly as hell... that is their right.

I would agree that studio1117 has lost his cool and become noticeably flustered at times in this thread, but I don't think that the fact that most of the people disagree with him should be expected to change his opinion on the matter. Neumann is obviously selling a lot of their microphones, and people are obiously buying them, even though there are quite a few extremely vocal people who are not fans of them. Good thing there are so many microphone manufacturers out there.

I think that it is a bit odd that so many people are so sure that this microphone will suck because it's transformerless or because it doesn't have a tube when none of them have heard it yet. Sure, it makes sense that people will expect it to suck, but why not wait until we've heard it to come up with our theories on why it sucks? I think that the only valid criticism at this point is that it is ugly as hell since the only thing we can really tell by looking at the microphone is what it looks like.

And, for the record, I'm not a huge fan of the modern Neumanns myself...having used both, I'd take a Bock 251 over an M149 any day for just about any source...

[TonyBelmont]

Originally Posted by Duardo

I would agree that studio1117 has lost his cool and become noticeably flustered at times in this thread, but I don't think that the fact that most of the people disagree with him should be expected to change his opinion on the matter.

I think you misunderstood what I was saying... That was the very point of my post... Everyone is entitled to their opinions. But, to blame the fact that people don't agree with you on "moderators not doing their jobs" is bullshit.

[Dan]

I still find it humorous that the thread was hijacked by a guy complaining about useless posts. Gearslutz must be defended from stupid posts!!! like this one,


oops, I did it again.



lol

eh, it was kind of a done thread at post 29 anyway.

[Mike O]

For some reason I am reminded of the Todd Rundgren song "Piss Aaron" from Something/Anything:

We figure, my daddy and me
Things are still the same, it seems
As when he lived it in his teens as a kid in school
Aaron was a junior, the class of 32
His momma called him angel,
But everybody knew he was the
King king, the gross out king
They called him piss aaron
They always caught him pissin in the hall
Piss aaron, he never would refuse when nature called

[John Willett]

Originally Posted by Duardo

I don't know, the TLM170 is priced the same as a U87, and there are plenty of other high-end transformerless microphones on the market as well...to some people they sound great (whether they're "pushing the boundaries" is another matter).

And I don't think that Neumann claimed that this microphone is going to sound "just like" a U67, and they've made it a different color to differentiate it from the U67 and U87...


I would agree that studio1117 has lost his cool and become noticeably flustered at times in this thread, but I don't think that the fact that most of the people disagree with him should be expected to change his opinion on the matter. Neumann is obviously selling a lot of their microphones, and people are obiously buying them, even though there are quite a few extremely vocal people who are not fans of them. Good thing there are so many microphone manufacturers out there.

I think that it is a bit odd that so many people are so sure that this microphone will suck because it's transformerless or because it doesn't have a tube when none of them have heard it yet. Sure, it makes sense that people will expect it to suck, but why not wait until we've heard it to come up with our theories on why it sucks? I think that the only valid criticism at this point is that it is ugly as hell since the only thing we can really tell by looking at the microphone is what it looks like.

And, for the record, I'm not a huge fan of the modern Neumanns myself...having used both, I'd take a Bock 251 over an M149 any day for just about any source...

A sensible and well rounded post.

I know quite a few very well respected engineers who love the TLM 170 and TLM 193 above all others.

Personally I don't like transformers for the way they colour the sound - yet others love them for the same reason I hate them.

Everyone is entitled to his own opinion - but, unfortunately, this thread degenerated into a slagging match.

This is sad because everyone can gain from well presented posts - whatever the opinion.

Aaron is trying to bring a sense of reason into the thread and I agree with what he is trying to do - but he does appear to have let the attacking posts get to him a bit (I almost did, as it's easy to attack back when someone attacks you).

Just wait until the mic. comes out and have a real listen and decide for yourself - preferably a blind test if you can, so pre-conceptions don't get in the way.

If it works for you, get it - if it doesn't, use something else.

[TheMarqueeYears]

Personally I don't like transformers for the way they colour the sound - yet others love them for the same reason I hate them.

I'm glad you put it like that.

Strong word "hate" isn't it.

I must say I "hate" TLM series mics for the way they reproduce sound waves.

But at least it's a depth of feeling you can relate to.

Best
Rob

[John Willett]

Originally Posted by TheMarqueeYears

I'm glad you put it like that.

Strong word "hate" isn't it.

I must say I "hate" TLM series mics for the way they reproduce sound waves.

But at least it's a depth of feeling you can relate to.

That's absolutely fine, it's your personal opinion - you use what works for you. But it does not make it a bad mic. because you don't like it.

Some people like colour, others like clean - that's why there are many good microphone companies making different microphones of different types.

But what I don't like is people who condemn a good mic. because it does not suit their style. It's still a good mic. just that it does not work for them. It does not make the mic. bad - just unsuitable for their use.

It may be perfect for someone else and what they are happy with may be unusable for someone else.

This particularly applies to vocal mics more than any other as people try to find a mic. that best suits their voice.

Though I will put the cat amongst the pigeons by saying I recorded a beautiful female vocal once using an MKH 40 mic.

[John Willett]

For info - the TLM 67 is now on the Neumann website HERE.

[TheMarqueeYears]

Ugly thing.

TMY

[gevermil]

Yeah it is ugly , Id hafta put it in figure-8 then sing into the back .

[Empty Planet]

From that Neumann page -- "In addition, the special new circuit design closely reproduces the sound characteristics of the classic U 67, without the use of tubes."

"Closely reproduces" -- Jeez, help me out guys, but that doesn't sound very vague to me.

This isn't "inspired by." This isn't "an homage to."

[Mike O]

Originally Posted by Empty Planet

From that Neumann page -- "In addition, the special new circuit design closely reproduces the sound characteristics of the classic U 67, without the use of tubes."

"Closely reproduces" -- Jeez, help me out guys, but that doesn't sound very vague to me.

This isn't "inspired by." This isn't "an homage to."

Looking forward to hearing it. Perhaps I won't have any use for my U67s anymore; but I don't think I will be selling them in advance!

[Empty Planet]

Originally Posted by Mike O

....Perhaps I won't have any use for my U67s anymore; but I don't think I will be selling them in advance!

Rats!

[malice]

This is bad,

I mean, the medallion ...

OMf$ckin God !

malice

[Meriphew]

Originally Posted by malice

This is bad,

I mean, the medallion ...

OMf$ckin God !

malice

That's what I thought too. What is that, a German coin that they glued on there? I don't care too much for the sound of modern Neumanns, but at least they normally look pretty sleek.