Neumann U67 Reissue - Is it TRUE?

[Empty Planet]

Originally Posted by studio1117

...I will point out again to you, that by using the capsule and the grill design...it will have the "typical sound" of a U67.

You can't be serious.

With all due respect, I suggest you extract yourself from this argument and let it go.


Cheers.

[Sounds Great]

Originally Posted by Empty Planet

You can't be serious.

With all due respect, I suggest you extract yourself from this argument and let it go.


Cheers.

I don't know how much clearer they could have made their intentions:

"The U67 was a tube microphone, but this new TLM has a special circuit which creates the typical sound of the old U67 tube mic."

[3rd&4thT]

Sennheiser owns Neumann, and both are selling mics in expensive euros to the world. The dollar is going to tank some more, so if you're in the U.S. and interested in this stuff, or Horch or Brauner or Gefell, buy 'em now - they'll all cost more this time next year.

Bean counters are not the only ones who can count. Standalone self-contained recording studios with engineers are fewer all the time, as production shifts to the project studio, or as we used to call it, the dinner table.

Sennheiser/Neumann are selling mics to people who are buying, and those tend to be people who are satisfied with a Chinese mic with a crappy top. S/N (great name for a mic company, huh?) have a few expensive mics at the top of the range, but I'd love to know how many TLM 103's they sell for each Solution D that goes out the door.

It's great that Korby, Wunder and Co. are keeping the faith, but that's what they are, faith-based initiatives. Boutique means just that. Sennheiser/Neumann contains a boutique within a broader operation, so buy the mics you like from that boutique, and ignore the others - they're not meant for you in the first place.

Is their publicity cannibalizing their past? Sure, but so do most global operations that have a history they can talk about without blushing. Clydesdales look evocative in the TV spots, but they won't persuade me to drink a beer made from rice.

Advertising and PR are not sacramental callings, they're generally disgusting, and we should not pretend to be shocked, shocked, that there's a whole lotta bullshine going on.

3rd&4thT

[oceantracks]

When you buy a new 87ai you are still getting one of the best capsules ever made, essentially unchanged according to Klaus, and with a mod you can have a world class mic and still spend less than on some of todays "world class" flavors of the month.

A U87ai modified by Klaus is a killer sounding mic, "Sennheiser" or not....

JMHO

TH

[Fast Castle]

Dudes here getting defensive and angry at the suggestion that new Neumanns are lesser mics than the older ones. Strange and disturbing. What leads a man to forsake his ears?

Studio1117, et al., I know your masters bid you stand up for their products, and I know you make money if people buy them, I know someone taught you that you can create the truth by shouting a lot. But you can't. So come back to the light! to the sound, to the truth. Don't become a wraith! Don't do it. Throw up a TLM103, make a recording, and speak the simple truth, even if only to yourself, whisper if you have to: "man, this mic kinda sucks."

It'll set you free.

[oceantracks]

Originally Posted by Fast Castle

Dudes here getting defensive and angry at the suggestion that new Neumanns are lesser mics than the older ones. Strange and disturbing. What leads a man to forsake his ears?

Studio1117, et al., I know your masters bid you stand up for their products, and I know you make money if people buy them, I know someone taught you that you can create the truth by shouting a lot. But you can't. So come back to the light! to the sound, to the truth. Don't become a wraith! Don't do it. Throw up a TLM103, make a recording, and speak the simple truth, even if only to yourself, whisper if you have to: "man, this mic kinda sucks."

It'll set you free.

Yawn.

How 'bout a nice, comfy DIGIDESIGN IS BIG BROTHER thread?

TH

[kellyd]

Having the same capsule and grill will not guarantee that the mic will sound the same. No tube, no xformer. Who knows what else.
Also who can say that the capsule is exactly the same as an original 67 or that the grill is exactly the same spacing and material.

Neumann is duping this new market. Indviduals who heard of great mics but have no experience with them and believe as long as the same company makes the mic and says so, it is so. They can get that magic at a price they can afford. Not quite.

[John Willett]

There has been a load of cr*p posted on this thread and some interesting comments.

Transformers have a lot of problems and ditching them seems to be a good idea. Tubes have loads of problems as well as a lot of good points.

If someone can get the positive sound of a tube without all the negatives that seems to me a good idea.

Old tube mics were often noisy, had microphonic tubes and suffered from transformer saturation which degraded the sound.

Many people criticize without ever hearing the microphone they are criticising.

Chill out - the right microphone to use is the one that gives you the sound you want - that's all.

There is a lot of choice.

[Empty Planet]

Originally Posted by John Willett

Transformers have a lot of problems and ditching them seems to be a good idea.

......................









..

[kellyd]

True, no one has heard the mic. New product speculation drives these threads.

Transformers are part of the sound of old mics. Better noise specs without the sound means nothing to me. To dismiss them in a design because they are problematic is complete crap.

Tube replaced by a circuit? Even less expectations.

All the mic companies that boast how much better their mics are now that they don't have transformers is marketing hype. It's cheaper and easier to manufacture.

To claim this new circuit is the same as a tube again I believe is hype.


If you want to judge this mic on it's own fine. To think it's the new U67 is a fantasy.

[rghose]

John, you're correct that we need to wait until we hear it before we criticize the microphone. However, I was just asserting the fact that Neumann/Sennheiser is marketing this microphone as one that will sound like the original U67. I personally don't find that believable but we'll just have to wait and see.

I also don't agree with your statement about transformers. I think you could say that BAD transformers have a lot of problems. However, quality transformers can not only sound great but can be very transparent as well. Remember that you can't just remove a transformer from a circuit....you still need something to provide impedance matching and balancing. So, pick your poison.....transformers or IC chips. Which one you prefer is subjective...I personally lean towards transformers.

For those interested, probably the best post I've read regarding the TLM67 topic was by Oliver Archut (an incredibly well respected person in the industry) over at PSW:

PSW Recording Forums: Whatever Works => Neumann TLM 67...why?

I think this quote (from Mr. Archut) pretty much sums up Neumann/Sennheiser's motivations:

"Aside for the tubes of the M49 and U47, all parts needed parts are still around in quantity that is need to make all the rest of the classic Neumann, why they don't or better wont do it, because just the x-former on lets say a U67 cost same as much that the entire TLM49 assembly. That's the bottom line!"

[John Willett]

Originally Posted by rghose

For those interested, probably the best post I've read regarding the TLM67 topic was by Oliver Archut (an incredibly well respected person in the industry) over at PSW:

PSW Recording Forums: Whatever Works => Neumann TLM 67...why?

Interesting, but wrong.

The U 87Ai was released pre-Sennheiser.

Neumann design is still Stephan Peus and Neumann manufacture is totally separate from Sennheiser.

A lot of people seem to post a lot of opinions without knowledge.

But, as I said before, you use what works for you, whoever makes it.

Personally I find a lot of the old designs far too noisy and problematic for what I do and I prefer the Sennheiser MKH symmetrical capsule series for a lot of what I do - those and the Neumann KM-D (I can't afford the D-01, but I *have* heard it).

It all comes down to personal taste - I prefer clean and neutral mics., others prefer mics that add colour - you pays you money and makes your choice.

Don't say a mic. is "bad" just because it doesn't suit you, it may be perfect for someone else. Just use what suits you.

[malice]

Originally Posted by John Willett

There has been a load of cr*p posted on this thread and some interesting comments.

No f*cking sh*it ?

Nothing remotly as crappy has this statement, I hope :

Transformers have a lot of problems and ditching them seems to be a good idea.

Well, that might sound like the balsiest statement of the year, but I'm afraid I will have to tell you that right now, I'm kinda wondering if you are somehow related to actual recording/mixing work, or if you just pimp transformerless gear. Because this simply eradicate tens of years of personal (and I'm sure I'm not alone here) conviction is sound aesthetics

Tubes have loads of problems as well as a lot of good points.

No kidding !

You sure ?

Dude, last time I recorded with a Horsh mike, I couldn't find ONE fu*ckin problem.

But maybe on Mars, where I think you live, they can't stand waiting for the heater to warm tubes or something ...

If someone can get the positive sound of a tube without all the negatives that seems to me a good idea.

Like you cannot smash it with a a baseball bat when it's hot ?

Old tube mics were often noisy, had microphonic tubes and suffered from transformer saturation which degraded the sound.

You right, I just tracked vocals with a M269c half an hour ago, it sounds like a bullet in a Fuzz Face with Minimoog white noise.


No Biggie,

I'll retrack it with a TLM67



malice

[malice]

Hey John, thanx for the new Sig line though

malice

[John Willett]

Originally Posted by malice

No f*cking sh*it ?

Interesting how you quote some of what I say and totally ignore the rest.

I just stated what *I* feel and also said - what is most important is that you use what works for you.

Fine - I hate transformers, you love them.

So what - you use them I won't - you like dirty recordings, I like clean and natural recordings.

You do what is right for the music you record, I do what is right for the music I record.

That's all.

[John Willett]

Originally Posted by kellyd

All the mic companies that boast how much better their mics are now that they don't have transformers is marketing hype. It's cheaper and easier to manufacture.

And in many cases - better.

And some microphone designs have *never* needed transformers because the design is inherently balanced from the start - rather than being inherently unbalanced and need a transformer or electronic circuit to balance the output.

I think I prefer a microphone design that is inherently balanced from the start.

[TheMarqueeYears]

I utterly HATE transformerless mics for vocals.

Speaking as a vocalist I can tell you a transformer turns a mic from a "device to convert sound waves into electrical energy" into a musical instrument.

A great mic transformer like the one in a Wunder CM7 or U47 is a thing of beauty in itself, you can actually get different sounds from it, by exploiting the way it saturates.

People who like transformerless mics are never coming at it from an artistic angle, always technical.

I have therefore personally found the Neumann TLM range to be of no use for recording vocals.

When I bare my soul to a mic, I like it to gracefully bend in the wind.
Not snap and fall over.

TMY

[Dan]

Originally Posted by John Willett

And in many cases - better.

And some microphone designs have *never* needed transformers because the design is inherently balanced from the start - rather than being inherently unbalanced and need a transformer or electronic circuit to balance the output.

I think I prefer a microphone design that is inherently balanced from the start.

I haven't seen that, what mics are you referring to, and how do they get a balanced signal from the air?

[malice]

Originally Posted by John Willett

And some microphone designs have *never* needed transformers because the design is inherently balanced from the start - rather than being inherently unbalanced and need a transformer or electronic circuit to balance the output.

I'm not saying your statements are full of shit, but on the other hand, I'm quite glad to prove to you that I DO pay attention to what you say. Worse case scenario, I can still fall from my chair laughing.

But I digress...

So John,

do tell us ...

Why the hell does Neumann is then adapting a flawed transformer designed mic such as the U67 instead of drawing a pristine genuine transformless microphone from scratch, so we wouldn't even have the retarded discussion ?

Tell us

I won't respond rightaway, I have dirty rottened transformer distorted vocals to do

But meanwhile, do tell us what transformless LDC microphone designed for vocal are considered as a standart and to be compared to the top microphones widely used in professional studios for that purpose.

And don't say : TLM170, I already felt from my chair ten minutes ago.

malice

[Sounds Great]

Originally Posted by studio1117

I think the new rule in here should be...put up...or shut up.

Along with the rule that any dealer of a particular product must state this fact along with any claims they make to the merit of said product.

[rghose]

Originally Posted by John Willett

Interesting, but wrong.

The U 87Ai was released pre-Sennheiser.

I asked Oliver about that on the other forum and he responded. You can check out his response there and reply directly to him if you'd like.

Neumann design is still Stephan Peus and Neumann manufacture is totally separate from Sennheiser.

This may be true but they still have to answer to Sennheiser's sales and marketing division. Even the best designers will be hampered by a limited budget.

A lot of people seem to post a lot of opinions without knowledge.

I hope you're not referring to Oliver because if you are, it speaks more to your credibility than his.

But, as I said before, you use what works for you, whoever makes it.

Agreed

Fine - I hate transformers, you love them.

So what - you use them I won't - you like dirty recordings, I like clean and natural recordings.

This is one of the most ridiculous statements I've heard. A transformer in a microphone means a "dirty" recording to you? Ok......

[popmann]

If they reissue, I'd rather see them do the M269c. It's got a godly air for pop vocals (when you EQ it) that the 67 doesn't, IMO.

Either way, I'd get out the checkbook. But, seeing as how the 87AI and M149 models I've used were seriously different unit to unit, I'd have to find someone who would allow me to cherry pick one from their stock.

[Dan]

Originally Posted by renrutgod

Quote:
Spotless? Really?

Okay... one spot : )

lol If there was any doubt to which company you're referring, that pretty much nails it down.

[rghose]

Originally Posted by Sounds Great

Along with the rule that any dealer of a particular product must state this fact along with any claims they make to the merit of said product.

Agreed. Aaron is free to state his opinions but I'd take them with a large grain of salt in light of his association with the company in question.

[rghose]

Originally Posted by popmann

If they reissue, I'd rather see them do the M269c. It's got a godly air for pop vocals (when you EQ it) that the 67 doesn't, IMO.

The M269 would be much more difficult to reissue because it uses the AC701 tube, which is quite difficult to obtain these days and very expensive. The EF86 in a U67 is much more readily available.

[Dan]

Originally Posted by rghose

The M269 would be much more difficult to reissue because it uses the AC701 tube, which is quite difficult to obtain these days and very expensive. The EF86 in a U67 is much more readily available.

Who said anything about using an actual tube?

[Empty Planet]