Telefunken AK-47 and Avant CV-12 the same mic??

[ottopadron]

Check this out! I just bought a new Telefunken AK-47, which I love, BUT, now I found what appears to be the exact same mic from Avant Electronics (the CV-12) for only $499. The Avant even comes in the exact same little wooden cheap box that my Telefunken came in. AT least Avant includes a carrying case... for 1/3 the price!!!!

Check it out and let me know what you think.... I hate being ripped off!

[ottopadron]

Here is the link to the Avant site...

AVANTONE CV-12 TUBE MIC

[Ambroise]

Same look but not same tubes seems

[MyNameIsChris]

Originally Posted by ottopadron

Check this out! I just bought a new Telefunken AK-47, which I love, BUT, now I found what appears to be the exact same mic from Avant Electronics (the CV-12) for only $499. The Avant even comes in the exact same little wooden cheap box that my Telefunken came in. AT least Avant includes a carrying case... for 1/3 the price!!!!

Check it out and let me know what you think.... I hate being ripped off!

Well... not that Telefunken USA doesn't have a slightly marred track record, but one wonders how you're possibly comparing these two mics based on what is essentially a generic body. Do you know what's inside these mics?

[TonyBelmont]

They probably use the same mic body... you would really have to have them side by side to know how they differ internally.

[big country]

you know how many mics look the same

alot


how many acustic guitar companies make the same looking body as the
D28

and do you think they sound the same ?


hell is nah

[duvalle]

i heard many people rave about the AVANTONE cv-12 ...
anyone tried it?

[seaneldon]

Same body tube and capsule. Significantly different amplifier, as well as grille/headbasket material if I remember correctly. Not the same microphones. The difference is rather "night and day".

[phillysoulman]

The AK 47 is based on a Neumann U47 and the CV 12 is based on an AKG C12..two completely different animals.

The ADK Hamburg (47) and the Vienna( C12) are better,imho.

[drBill]

Originally Posted by seaneldon

Same body tube and capsule. Significantly different amplifier

So....anyone remotely adept at following the myriads of on-line mods for these mics can easily (and cheaply) upgrade their $500 (or $200) mic to a $1500 mic. thumbsup

[Doc Mixwell]

Do you have the knowledge and machinery to wind the transformer core the same as the B47 featured in the AK47? Or an idea of how the tube and amplifier interact with the transformer to achieve X frequency response?

The sound of these two microphones couldn't be further away from each other. The AK47 actually has depth of audio and you can hit it with SPL without the "spit" and shrill edge to the transients. Its not a question.

[Doc Mixwell]

Originally Posted by phillysoulman

The AK 47 is based on a Neumann U47 and the CV 12 is based on an AKG C12..two completely different animals.

The ADK Hamburg (47) and the Vienna( C12) are better,imho.

The AK47 is an original design that follows the lineage of such vintage microphones, but has nothing to do with the U47 other than its custom Transformer historically recreated, the B47.

[Schmacko]

Originally Posted by duvalle

i heard many people rave about the AVANTONE cv-12 ...
anyone tried it?

I think they are legit, good cheap mic's. I just noticed on that link that my good friend, Chuck, is the guy pictured way down on the testimonial's of that webpage. I remember him telling me about some good cheap mic he got, but I didn't know he was endorsing them or anything.

[drBill]

Originally Posted by Roc Mixwell

Do you have the knowledge and machinery to wind the transformer core the same as the B47 featured in the AK47? Or an idea of how the tube and amplifier interact with the transformer to achieve X frequency response?

The sound of these two microphones couldn't be further away from each other. The AK47 actually has depth of audio and you can hit it with SPL without the "spit" and shrill edge to the transients. Its not a question.

I should have said the M16, not the AK47. My bad.

[James R.]

Hi Everybody,


<quote:The AK47 is an original design that follows the lineage of such vintage microphones, but has nothing to do with the U47 other than its custom Transformer historically recreated, the B47>
__________________


Don't want to make anyone mad here, but correct me if I wrong, I thought the historically correct transformer for the the Neumann U47 was the BV8. A year or so ago I taked to Oliver at Tab about getting one from him for my TM-1. He custom winds them.
Also I was looking at the picture of the Avant CV-12, and please correct me again if I'm wrong, but it looks like it is center terminated. A C12 is edge terminated. There is of course the possibility that it's a optical delusion (brain malfunction) and I'm seeing something that isn't there.




James R.
Avian Studios
(we're for the birds)

[T- Funk Ian]

Originally Posted by James R.

Hi Everybody,


<quote:The AK47 is an original design that follows the lineage of such vintage microphones, but has nothing to do with the U47 other than its custom Transformer historically recreated, the B47>
__________________


Don't want to make anyone mad here, but correct me if I wrong, I thought the historically correct transformer for the the Neumann U47 was the BV8. A year or so ago I taked to Oliver at Tab about getting one from him for my TM-1. He custom winds them.
Also I was looking at the picture of the Avant CV-12, and please correct me again if I'm wrong, but it looks like it is center terminated. A C12 is edge terminated. There is of course the possibility that it's a optical delusion (brain malfunction) and I'm seeing something that isn't there.




James R.
Avian Studios
(we're for the birds)

You are correct in your thought about the transformer in the U47. The historically correct transformer is the BV8, except for the first couple hundred or so. They had a larger transformer that was mounted vertically, but I can't remember it's name. You are also correct in your thoughts about the CK12 capsule, which is indeed edge terminated. Personally, I cannot tell what kind of capsule is in the Avantone mic, but you're probably correct in thinking that it is center terminated.

[James R.]

Hi Ian,



Thanks for confirming my post. But as always, you learn something new. Thanks for the info about the different transformer in the first couple hundred U47's.
Could you possibly elaborate on why they quit using that earlier larger transformer?
Also it would be interesting to actually find out how the Avant CV-12 capsule is terminated. Since it seems <optimum word) to be billed as a C12 like mic, it would not have those characteristics with the capusle being center terminated. Of course not actually knowing what's in it makes my comments all speculation.
I have a Peluso P12 and the capsule is edge terminated. However since I have never had the pleasure of actually using a real C12 I can't say how it actually stacks up against one. However, it is a great sounding mic in it's own right. I do know that it has different characteristics than my TM-1 which is center terminated. Of course that is also taking into account transformer, headgrill and tube differences to mention a few.
Once again thanks for the info.



James R.
Avian Studios
(we're for the birds)

[thepleasureman]

Telefunken took in on the chin like a champ when they got called out after introducing the m16 too early...(Same mic as the apex 460 but was over 1k more)

I doubt telefunken would ever do something like this again...hence the reason why the Telefunken M16 MKII was made

Different Mic.

[Chris G]

Originally Posted by duvalle

i heard many people rave about the AVANTONE cv-12 ...
anyone tried it?

I love the cv-12.... Its like butter. I ran it through my Vintech 473, and boosted 12k just a tad, and the produce and client were blown away on the first take. Not bad for the 300.00 or less that I paid when they first came out!!!

My dad is an old school engineer and wants me to send him one to mod up. He is going to try to find an old-new stock telefunken tube and upgrade to better transformers. I should have it done in a month, and I'll try to post some results.

[drBill]

You Dad may find some of these resources useful:

http://homerecording.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=196274

http://www.morphproductions.com/apex...sformermod.htm

[Crash]

I would think the CV-12 and the ACM-1200 are more likely from the same lineage.

[drBill]

Originally Posted by Crash

I would think the CV-12 and the ACM-1200 are more likely from the same lineage.

thumbsupthumbsupthumbsupthumbsup

4 on the way. Then off to mods. 2 C12-ish, 2 67-ish!!!!

[Bob Amirian]

They're totally different. Tried them both.

CV-12 sounds mediocre, but compared to AK47. M16, Peluso2247, Mojave MA-200 or Groove Tubes Md1B-t it's really not worth a while.

I like Avantone CR14 double-ribbon on horns, it's really nice.

But CV-12 is downright a no-go. No class, no sparkle, no meat, no way. tutt

[switch777]

Originally Posted by Bob Amirian

They're totally different. Tried them both.

CV-12 sounds mediocre, but compared to AK47. M16, Peluso2247, Mojave MA-200 or Groove Tubes Md1B-t it's really not worth a while.

I like Avantone CR14 double-ribbon on horns, it's really nice.

But CV-12 is downright a no-go. No class, no sparkle, no meat, no way. tutt

Sorry to resurrect an old thread...but...curious.

What horns have you used the CR14 on? Type of music? Are you a bright, edgy horn guy, or a warm mellow one? Do you have a certain pre you typically pair with?

Ever use Fat Head's? I've had good luck with them on trumpets, but I've been looking for some thing different an a bit warmer for brass in general.

Thanks!

[Sam Watson]

Old thread but shedding some new light:
The get an earful of the Avantone CV12 listen to Taylor Swift's second album Fearless. It was her vocal mic of choice. (Running into an API console.)

The electric guitars were often Strat > Matchless DC30 amp with a SM57 & the Avatone CV12 setup 2" from the speaker > UA 1176 > API console.

Pretty good testimonial for that mic. I could swing the cash for the CV12. Now if I could just get the API console to boot.

[Fletcher]

Gee Sam - did you work on the record?

It seems like you have an awful lot of first hand knowledge.

Just askin'...

[joelpatterson]

This is common knowledge: the CV-12 and Taylor Swift go together like guacamole and chips.

However much respect/contempt that inspires in anyone... that's your personal problem.

[Jeremy Krull]

That whole "BUT TAYLOR SWIFT USED IT" thing is getting SO old whenever anyone mentions the CV12. So what? It works for Taylor Swift. Taylor Swift's strong point is not exactly her singing, so who cares right now? And if the mic works for her, that has really no bearing whatsoever on the AK-47 sharing parts with it (because even the sharing parts really has little bearing itself on the sound differences between the two).

I've used the AK-47 on a few sessions (and probably again coming up this weekend, and if I had money to be burning right now on mics I'd probably have one (or even two).

I love how everyone's out to get T'Funk...all of the other vaporware slinging in-house hype gear pimp crap on this board and you guys give T'Funk shit? aweeeeesome.

-Jeremy

[fuzz doctor joe]

I've been lookin' at these for a while and own a CV-12.
If you read up around here on them several people have had it modded to shine even more -along with swapping tubes out. That probabily still cost them less than the AK-47.

Those arguing for them have to admit there's something fishy about the similarities, even if it is just in looks. What i wanna get to the bottom of is; where are these companies getting their stuff? Cuz it's blatantly the same place! :p I think different companies are buying up what is essentially the Apex 460 (in basic form) and modding them along with a lick of paint.

[drBill]

Originally Posted by fuzz doctor joe

What i wanna get to the bottom of is; where are these companies getting their stuff? Cuz it's blatantly the same place! :p I think different companies are buying up what is essentially the Apex 460 (in basic form) and modding them along with a lick of paint.

China. Manufacturers can buy a generic design, change a few things to make it their own, and put it out. Even the recent group buy did a mic that was essentially the same as the avant.