Producing Horrible Bands

[fooman]

I run a small studio in town, and I've started to attract decent artists but of course along comes the junky bands at the precise time that I can't afford to turn business (and repeat business) away.

So how do some of you guys, large and small, get a junk band to perform well or at least within their limits? For example, both guitarists think they are gods but actually are worse than I am at their instrument, neither have good timing, and one plays so fast that the rhythm sounds like muck. Oh, and the solo's played are not in the key of the song....

How can you turn this into a cohesive record? Do I attempt to teach the band why playing all 32nd notes in a sloppy fashion is a bad idea, why you need to turn down the gain and stop touching the amp, perhaps play with the drummer and not to ur own personal metronome. Do i intentionally make it dirty to cover up some of the poor musicianship? Or do I just let them sound like they sound and hope they realize it's not my fault....?

[davedarling]

Originally Posted by fooman

I run a small studio in town, and I've started to attract decent artists but of course along comes the junky bands at the precise time that I can't afford to turn business (and repeat business) away.

So how do some of you guys, large and small, get a junk band to perform well or at least within their limits? For example, both guitarists think they are gods but actually are worse than I am at their instrument, neither have good timing, and one plays so fast that the rhythm sounds like muck. Oh, and the solo's played are not in the key of the song....

How can you turn this into a cohesive record? Do I attempt to teach the band why playing all 32nd notes in a sloppy fashion is a bad idea, why you need to turn down the gain and stop touching the amp, perhaps play with the drummer and not to ur own personal metronome. Do i intentionally make it dirty to cover up some of the poor musicianship? Or do I just let them sound like they sound and hope they realize it's not my fault....?

are you being hired as a producer, or as an engineer ?
If producer , then yes..you should make any suggestions that you feel will show the act in the best light, and get the best recording. That is part of a producer's job.
If you're being hired as an engineer , you should record what the act does, and that's it. Suggestions may or may not be cool.
If you're not sure you're the producer....you're not.

good luck - have fun Dave Darling

[fooman]

How it works is bands like this usually say "make us sound awesome", pretty vague indeed. They do not have a producer, they just want their music done up well so they have something to show for their efforts.

However, it seems that certain people just don't take criticism well and are simply stuck in their ways. For the most part that's fine, but there's a line between being creative and being a bad song-writer.

How do you describe this to someone with an ego without getting into an arguement? I have sat there while the current band in question argues about a part of a song for 30 mins, only to have it stay the same. I think it's mostly due to them not actually having listening to each individual part prior to coming to record the song, so now all of a sudden they realize that the bass part and the guitar do not sync to the drums... and the bass is actually playing a different rhythm under the guitars that does not compliment it.

Anyways, enough whining. Just seeing if I'm the only one... =)

[slaves666]

I have been in this situation a few times......the best way to deal with the band is be honest, and ensure them that "this is the way the pro's do things"

I also sit down with the bands and have a pre-prod session to work out parts and such a few weeks before the initial drum session so I can be sure there are no session stoppers.

I also keep some good amps and guitars on hand.....always better than the Ibanez/valvestate combo most bands walk in with.

[fooman]

e, yea the band I'm currently moaning about had their rhythm guitarist in and tell me one of the reason he was being thrown off was due to the Mesa Triple Rectifier I borrowed for the session "not being the normal rig". The normal rig is one of the digital Line 6 amps through one of the smaller Marshall 4x12's. It had the gain cranked when I was at their practice space and the mids scooped.

I really try to stay away from saying "this is the way professionals do it" because often I find musicians at this stage will find it condescending. Even if that is justified, I still feel like a jerk for saying it.

[James Meeker]

Honestly, you can't turn crap musicians into decent ones with a few words, so I wouldn't try to make it more than what it is. However, you should be honest with them and do your job 100% as well as offer advice to those you think would be receptive to it.

The guys that suck with egos... do yourself a favor and do their project, keep your mouth shut, let it suck and get them out of your life. Oh yeah, and get the money too. Those are the guys that are truly hopeless.

It's okay for musicians to suck--we all did at one point. It's the guys that think they have it nailed that are the ones without a chance. Eventually, if you keep working at it, stay realistic about your abilities, have high standards and never give up you'll get pretty good. Maybe not the best in the world, but good enough to make decent music.

Nothing funnier, by the way, than a sucky musician with a major ego. ROFL. So hilarious.....

[Audio Hombre]

i wish i had the patience to deal with these type of guys more. there's not much that irks me more than guys that think they're da sh1t and are in fact, sh1t. last time i had some thrashy band that just loved seattle grunge, they wouldn't listen to me at all and thought they sounded "fine". i loaded some soundgarden and alice in chains and played it right in there with their stuff. as to be expected, some guys still thought they rawked but the drummer laughed and said they sounded like sh1t.

if you're not producing, them just record them and send them on their merry way.if you are, then pre-prod is crucial if not even just to determine if you do anything with them.

[Jayro_Rockola]

Milk it man!

My best repeat client for the last six months has been a two peice that has trouble with EVERYTHING. Tempo, pitch, intonation, arrangement, etc. Once they saw how "awesome" I could make them sound with an absolutely ludicrous amount of takes and editing they were all about taking their time. Seriously. We spent four full days doing bass overdubs because they couldn't really play and hadn't fleshed out all the arrangements fully. I ended up writing and playing at least half of them, and I'm a shitty bass player too! This weekend, two full days for vocals on ONE SONG! Literally hundreds of takes to sift through and comp.

And now my secret weapon... I just got melodyne today and spent all day learning it on two of their songs. The difference is night and day. I'm sure to book at least two more days just for tuning, especially since I just did two songs for free.

It's not like these guys can't hear. When something sounds better to me they almost always pick up on it and want it done across the board. They're motto is "we've gotten every thing to sound so good up to this point, there's no way we're gonna cut corners "finishing" the album."

The key i've found when working with groups without a producer is easing into the production role like tippie-toeing into the ocean a few inches at a time.
Make a suggestion, small at first. Suggest an alternate word in a clunky vocal line or a cool harmony that popped into your head. If they dig it and it makes the track better they will start trusting you more and you can suggest more radical changes/additions.
Before you know it you will be playing their instruments, writing their lyrics and making comments like "I'm sorry but X is just not working."

I realize that alot of folx around here will probably not be into this approach as they see their job as simply documenting whoever walks through the door. Sometimes this is the case with really badass bands who have their shit together, and is really cool when it happens. But in the "lower teir" which we both seem to inhabit that consists of local and usually fairly green bands, there is alot you can contribute musically if you and the artists are so inclined.

I personally enjoy arranging and singing BGV's more than simply hitting record a million times.

I guess my point is this: In some instances, the shittier the band, the more fun you can have in the recording process and the more money you can make. Or you can use my helpful formula:

Money+Enjoyment=(Shittyness x Patience)/ Budget
-or-
(M+E)=(SB)/B


Damn! Sorry for the rant!

[James Meeker]

Originally Posted by Jayro_Rockola

Milk it man!

My best repeat client for the last six months has been a two peice that has trouble with EVERYTHING. Tempo, pitch, intonation, arrangement, etc. Once they saw how "awesome" I could make them sound with an absolutely ludicrous amount of takes and editing they were all about taking their time. Seriously. We spent four full days doing bass overdubs because they couldn't really play and hadn't fleshed out all the arrangements fully. I ended up writing and playing at least half of them, and I'm a shitty bass player too! This weekend, two full days for vocals on ONE SONG! Literally hundreds of takes to sift through and comp.

I absolutely and completely disagree with this!

Personally I feel it is the engineer/producer's RESPONSIBILITY to educate their clients about the recording process and give honest feedback. It's not only ethical and smart in the long term business-wise, but it's just plain RIGHT.

The way I look at it is if the band isn't that solid they are never going to get a great recording, no matter how many takes and retakes and punch ins you use. I let 'em know that they shouldn't spend a ton of money and use the studio as a learning experience for *NEXT TIME*.

If a sucky band wants to spend a wad of money, then fine. Beforehand they should be educated to what choices they have--spend a ton of money on a record that will probably suck and never recoup the cost they spent to record it, or do a few songs cheaply in the studio and LEARN from the experience. Come back in a year when they've gotten their act together.

Remember: you can shear a sheep many times, but kill and eat it only once.

Honestly, actions like this are going to come back to haunt you and ruin your professional reputation. When other bands or friends/family hear their "magnum opus" they're going to be appalled that they spent "X" amount of dollars and that was the end result. After awhile the band is going to start to feel taken advantage of since nobody they know thinks their album is any good. Before you know it everyone in your area avoids your studio.

So smart, real smart.

Remember--everything in life is relative to COST. If a band's demo sucks for 300 bucks, well... whady'a expect? If it sucks at 2000 dollars... well, that's a rip off.

Plus, think of the most important thing--your CLIENTS. What effect are your actions going to take on the band? When their recording sucks and they are broke do you think they're going to have the gusto to get out there and play, to improve as players? Probably not.

Also, let's not forget another important thing--YOUR TIME. If you spend 3 weeks doing a crap demo for a band you've just gotten paid and nothing more. That's 3 weeks of not finding a good band to make a good record with that is going to attract more biz. That's part of the other reason I try to get bad artists in and out of the studio with minimal fuss, muss and cost. Life is too short to be spent working with terrible musicians. It's depressing as well, because you start feeling like YOU'RE NO GOOD because the last 5 projects you did sucked....

I consider this very short term thinking, total minor league mentality! Hundreds, if not thousands of little recording studio start ups pull this kind of stuff, go out of business in a few years and then the rest of us have to deal with this garbage. That's why bands don't trust engineers and producers anymore--by the time they get to you they've been lied to, ripped off and abused half a dozen times.

So thanks from the bottom of my heart for making our jobs a little harder.

I know that it's great to get paid, but at what COST? At the end of the day you are going to have to live with the way that you treated people, and karma is a BITCH in this industry. You may not know it now, but you may be paving the way to your own inevitable failure. To get anywhere in this biz you have to forget about the money and think about how to best serve your clients' needs.

Just my opinion.

[GearBit]

Originally Posted by fooman

I really try to stay away from saying "this is the way professionals do it" because often I find musicians at this stage will find it condescending. Even if that is justified, I still feel like a jerk for saying it.

I think the best way to say it is "look, I have alot of experience in recording bands and don't mind giving you pointers to help your recording sound better On the other hard, It's your money and you can tell me to shut up and just record any time you like".
This places the power options clearly in their hands making them feel relaxed in their power. Relaxed enough to realise that they really want the recording to sound good first and foremost.
I have never had a band tell me to just record.

[joelpatterson]

This might be some consolation: recordings that are terrible vanish quickly... it's not like they stick around to become an "example" of your "bad job."

They just plain old drop from sight because they're so horrible. Sure, the dreadful bands will try to get people to listen, but....

[Jayro_Rockola]

Originally Posted by James Meeker

I absolutely and completely disagree with this!

Personally I feel it is the engineer/producer's RESPONSIBILITY to educate their clients about the recording process and give honest feedback. It's not only ethical and smart in the long term business-wise, but it's just plain RIGHT.

The way I look at it is if the band isn't that solid they are never going to get a great recording, no matter how many takes and retakes and punch ins you use. I let 'em know that they shouldn't spend a ton of money and use the studio as a learning experience for *NEXT TIME*.

If a sucky band wants to spend a wad of money, then fine. Beforehand they should be educated to what choices they have--spend a ton of money on a record that will probably suck and never recoup the cost they spent to record it, or do a few songs cheaply in the studio and LEARN from the experience. Come back in a year when they've gotten their act together.

Remember: you can shear a sheep many times, but kill and eat it only once.

Honestly, actions like this are going to come back to haunt you and ruin your professional reputation. When other bands or friends/family hear their "magnum opus" they're going to be appalled that they spent "X" amount of dollars and that was the end result. After awhile the band is going to start to feel taken advantage of since nobody they know thinks their album is any good. Before you know it everyone in your area avoids your studio.

So smart, real smart.

Remember--everything in life is relative to COST. If a band's demo sucks for 300 bucks, well... whady'a expect? If it sucks at 2000 dollars... well, that's a rip off.

Plus, think of the most important thing--your CLIENTS. What effect are your actions going to take on the band? When their recording sucks and they are broke do you think they're going to have the gusto to get out there and play, to improve as players? Probably not.

Also, let's not forget another important thing--YOUR TIME. If you spend 3 weeks doing a crap demo for a band you've just gotten paid and nothing more. That's 3 weeks of not finding a good band to make a good record with that is going to attract more biz. That's part of the other reason I try to get bad artists in and out of the studio with minimal fuss, muss and cost. Life is too short to be spent working with terrible musicians. It's depressing as well, because you start feeling like YOU'RE NO GOOD because the last 5 projects you did sucked....

I consider this very short term thinking, total minor league mentality! Hundreds, if not thousands of little recording studio start ups pull this kind of stuff, go out of business in a few years and then the rest of us have to deal with this garbage. That's why bands don't trust engineers and producers anymore--by the time they get to you they've been lied to, ripped off and abused half a dozen times.

So thanks from the bottom of my heart for making our jobs a little harder.

I know that it's great to get paid, but at what COST? At the end of the day you are going to have to live with the way that you treated people, and karma is a BITCH in this industry. You may not know it now, but you may be paving the way to your own inevitable failure. To get anywhere in this biz you have to forget about the money and think about how to best serve your clients' needs.

Just my opinion.

Thanks for reading my entire post and commenting on my main points.


Not!!


Dude! Harsh your mellow! Er, I mean mellow your harsh...
If you really think I'm catigorily ruining things for us little guys then take a step or two back. You COMPLETELY missed my point.

Let's say band Y Comes in and doesn't have they're shit completely together, but has the energy and funds to try to make a really badass recording. I, for one, am going to do whatever I can to make them sound as good as possible. I definitely don't feel as though i'm taking advantage of them by letting them know about the tools I have to my disposal to make them sound "better on record."

As an aside, I have often times suggested that bands cut a session short (on my dime) and rehearse/rewrite songs to get a better result on tape and almost always have been met with musicians who want to push ahead and write in the studio.

I think you might have got me wrong James, I'm not trying to actively take advantage of anyone. I am just realizing that when I get a client that needs extra special help, it is beneficial to both my brain and my pocketbook.

Oh... and ****ing relax man! We're making records, not cancer cures!

[James Meeker]

Originally Posted by Jayro_Rockola

I think you might have got me wrong James, I'm not trying to actively take advantage of anyone. I am just realizing that when I get a client that needs extra special help, it is beneficial to both my brain and my pocketbook.

Let's just say we'll agree to disagree on this subject.

Playing Devil's advocate here: why don't you tell them to come back when they DO have their stuff together and make a better recording at that time? Wouldn't that be the better move for the client and yourself? Plus, knowing clients, they'll spend their original budget anyways, but the record will be that much better.

That's the difference in my book between doing a session, and having a client for life.

I think this profession needs an ethical code or something.

[fooman]

See, the disagreement b/w James and Jayro is kind of where I'm at. I'm sorry Jayro, but I do disagree with you for the most part in your first post. It seems like you are totally for pushing a band beyond it's limits and actually playing parts for them... which is weak IMO.

But the thing is I am a small studio trying to get my name out there. It IS starting to happen, I'm getting more business and making better music with what I have to work with consistently. However, I am still in no position to turn away business, and the band in question will be repeat business. However, as James said, my name will be attached to a sub-par product if I don't find a way to make it work.

So there's the problem that I'm sure everyone here has faced.

I cut a session last night with the lead ego-guitarist. He brought his gf.... but surprisingly she stayed quiet! Anyways, he played 1/2 decent and I was able to get everything I wanted done in the timeframe we had. Some of the leads and solos were cheese, but it's not my art. They truly do like their songs, and they sound better than their last effort at another studio so I'm pretty content.

[Silver Sonya]

I just read Jayro's first post. Wow. Pretty shocking, sinister mindset.

"These people are terrible, they take forever to do basic things, but they have lots of money and don't know any better... Awesome..."

Yuck. That is not a dignified way to make a living.

- c

[doorknocker]

Originally Posted by Silver Sonya

I just read Jayro's first post. Wow. Pretty shocking, sinister mindset.

"These people are terrible, they take forever to do basic things, but they have lots of money and don't know any better... Awesome..."

Yuck. That is not a dignified way to make a living.

- c

I think his answer was reasonable and honest.

And he raised a good point: Great records aren't necessarily made by great musicians, especially in rock music. I wouldn't call The Rolling Stones or Iggy & the Stooges 'great musicians' but a long time ago, they made some pretty fantastic recordings.

It helps to have great songs though........

And

[heyman]

"I also sit down with the bands and have a pre-prod session to work out parts and such a few weeks before the initial drum session so I can be sure there are no session stoppers"


Yea, I wanted to do that also on the current session I am working on... I asked them if I could come by a rehearsal. I also asked the guitar player (who is the leader) how well the songs were rehearsed. He told me "we didnt practice them that much, but dont worry I want to the songs to have a spontaneous feel"

What an absolute joke..

If you ever hear that..run--- dont walk away--- run..!!

I told him that I thought they should be well rehearsed and they could still get a bunch of great first takes...! I told them to take a few more weeks and polish up the songs.

He didnt want to hear it..

Now, I am dealing with songs poorly played, timimg issues and trying to polish turds.

[Silver Sonya]

Originally Posted by doorknocker

I think his answer was reasonable and honest.

I think the answer defined dishonest.

The client would obviously be shocked, scandalized and deeply hurt if they were to read this thread.

If you have a client come in who is untalented or unprepared, encouraging them to spend tons of dough is unethical. Taking advantage of people who are vulnerable is wrong. If that's what your client base has come down to, you should re-examine your life's choice and consider pursuing another profession. This one's just not working out.

I understand we all have to make a living --- and not every band is going to be Radiohead --- but you gotta draw the line at some point or you're just gonna start feeling bad about yourself. If a client is severely weak or musically handicapped in some way, you have to sit them down and explain the situation to them. If they still want to proceed with the session, great.

As described, I would not feel comfortable taking these peoples' money. To me, it's just wrong. In an obvious way.

- c

[doorknocker]

Originally Posted by Silver Sonya

If you have a client come in who is untalented or unprepared, encouraging them to spend tons of dough is unethical.

This is total BS. It's not about 'encouraging them to spend tons of dough', it's about doing YOUR job right.

And do you really tell teh client after teh first days 'I think you're untalented. I advise you to cancel the rest of the studio time you've booked with me and take some guitar lessons.' I wanna see that.

Frankly, I don't know what the topic is here. Engineering is not producing and you always can turn down a project if yit doesn't meet your high standards.

And one last thought: There's a lot of talk here about people not being ready to record. It certainly happens a lot but then again, you got to start somewhere. A band might NEED the experience of learning that their sound doesn't translate to a recording 'just like that'. They migth blearn from the experience.

[Silver Sonya]

Originally Posted by doorknocker

And do you really tell teh client after teh first days 'I think you're untalented. I advise you to cancel the rest of the studio time you've booked with me and take some guitar lessons.' I wanna see that.

First of all, we always meet with clients before the session starts. Second of all, yes, if we sense a client has unrealistic expectations of the outcome of the session, we will tell them so. We always try to be sensitive and polite about it (it's true that I would never tell a client they didn't have any talent), but we have turned many people away towards other options than spending a lot of money on a recording that will not suit their objectives.

I have given many prospective clients a shopping list. "Maybe buy an Mbox2, a Shure KSM32, a mic stand and some headphones and try recording at home? Even if it's just to get your rough ideas sketched out and organized, it could save you time in the studio..." The Mbox is a pretty good mirror. If you can't stand what comes out of it, that's probably a sign you're not ready to go into a dayrate studio.

I think the only reason not to do this is if you were starving and needing the business. If you're running a popular studio --- with rates priced appropriately for the community you serve --- there's no reason to milk weak clients and string them along for 3 days getting usable bass tracks!! In our studio, that would cost the client $2k!! I would not feel good taking that money.

The trick is to balance honesty with kindness. Look the client in the eye. Always try not to hurt people's feelings, whenever possible. Be sympathetic.

What we have found is that people respond well to this. They appreciate the consideration. They know that when we do hand them a large session bill, that we did it because this is the value of the work, not because we're trying to take them for all they're worth.

As a studio owner, you do have options.

- c

[doorknocker]

Originally Posted by Silver Sonya

First of all, we always meet with clients before the session starts. Second of all, yes, if we sense a client has unrealistic expectations of the outcome of the session, we will tell them so. We always try to be sensitive and polite about it (it's true that I would never tell a client they didn't have any talent), but we have turned many people away towards other options than spending a lot of money on a recording that will not suit their objectives.

I have given many prospective clients a shopping list. "Maybe buy an Mbox2, a Shure KSM32, a mic stand and some headphones and try recording at home? Even if it's just to get your rough ideas organized sketched out and organized, it could save you time in the studio..." The Mbox is a pretty good mirror. If you can't stand what comes out of it, that's probably a sign you're not ready to go into a dayrate studio.

I think the only reason not to do this is if you were starving and needing the business. If you're running a popular studio --- with rates priced appropriately for the community you serve --- there's no reason to milk weak clients and string them along for 3 days getting usable bass tracks!! In our studio, that would cost the client $2k!! I would not feel good taking that money.

The trick is to balance honesty with kindness. Look the client in the eye. Always try not to hurt people's feelings, whenever possible. Be sympathetic.

What we have found is that people respond well to this. They appreciate the consideration. They know that when we do hand them a large session bill, that we did it because this is the value of the work, not because we're trying to take them for all they're worth.

As a studio owner, you do have options.

- c

This all makes sense but you're really talking about producing. Do you automatically produce the artists you record?

I ask this because playing the part right is surely a challenge but finding the right part to play and knowing how to build up a track is where the real work is IMO.

[Silver Sonya]

Originally Posted by doorknocker

This all makes sense but you're really talking about producing. Do you automatically produce the artists you record?

I ask this because playing the part right is surely a challenge but finding the right part to play and knowing how to build up a track is where the real work is IMO.

Well, you're right: it's a fine line between engineering and producing. No, we do not automatically produce the artists we record. But the difference betwen the two roles can get blurry, in both positive and negative ways. (We've all encountered this, right?)

To be clear, the main thing I took issue with was the tone of that first post from Jayro. It just seemed kinda like he was saying he was happy when he had incompetent, unprepared clients, 'cause it meant more money. There was a "Dude, just grab the dough!" attitude. That just seems mean to me. And that's not why any of us got into this business, to take advantage of vulnerable people.

The first sentence was "Milk it, man!"

- c

[Jayro_Rockola]

Sorry guys, I guess reading back I did sound like kind of a dick and any tounge-in-cheek comments don't translate too well 'round these parts. These people have actually become somewhat friends to me and I work really hard to make them happy. I just put in a full days worth work for them yesterday for free.

I'm not a conniving or decieving person and would never suggest that someone else should be. I'm not ripping anyone off either. If you read my whole post you would see that I infact do try to inform all bands about being prepared before they come in and have pre production meetings with them. Bring me a mix CD of stuff you like and want to sound like, tell me about your goals and vision for the product, I'll come to one of your shows before we begin. This is stuff we all should be doing.

Fact is that this band came in and said "We want to make a big rock record with all the bells and whistles." They just happen to be a two peice and have visions a little beyond their abilities. That's okay to me because they're learning, having fun and pleased with the quality of work that they are recieving. There have been multiple days where I suggested many times that we cut the session short because I felt they were not prepared. My words: " I feel like you guys just aren't prepared for todays session and I don't want to waste your time and money. Maybe you should go home to flesh out these arrangements a little more and come back in next week." Their words: "We'll get it, let's just keep pushing ahead."

Am I supposed to kick them out of my f*cking studio and start insulting their abilities? They're the clients, they want to keep working. They're not stupid. If they thought I was taking advandage of them, would they keep coming back week after week?

As far as me doing some of the performances for them being sad? What do you think producers and session musicians have been doing for decades? We're making an album here and trying to make it sound as good as possible. This project is not simply a documentation of their live performances, it's a completely different artform. Have you never worked with a producer who will write and perform parts for their artists? That's a part of the job description.

Again, I'm sorry to come off as a money grubbing a-hole, and some of those comments sound pretty off base. I was only being half serious with the "milk it" and "it's awesome that they suck" comments. I agree that the band would be bummed out if they found out about it and I would probably not have said some of those things in retrospect. I'm not gonna edit my original post though because that would make me a pussy and a little humility is good for us all from time to time. I care alot about the music I make and was just trying to relate a recent experience that seemed to fall in line with the topic at hand. Maybe I should just learn to shut the f*ck up.

[fooman]

Jayro, I thought when you said you were playing their parts, it seemed like you kinda kicked em aside and said "Move it, I'm playing this cause you suck". Meh, whatever works man. If the band is happy in the end, good job I guess right? If everyone leaves with smiles and a product they are proud of then awesome.

[SFTPH]

Originally Posted by James Meeker

Let's just say we'll agree to disagree on this subject.

Playing Devil's advocate here: why don't you tell them to come back when they DO have their stuff together and make a better recording at that time? Wouldn't that be the better move for the client and yourself? Plus, knowing clients, they'll spend their original budget anyways, but the record will be that much better.

That's the difference in my book between doing a session, and having a client for life.

I think this profession needs an ethical code or something.

Yeah DOOOD, and you can tell the bank that has your house and car note that you can't pay them this month because "only sh*tty bands want me to record them but I'm holier than thou"
USE AUTOTUNE, BEAT DETECTIVE AND SOUNDREPLACER
FIX THE BULLSHIT
GET PAID

[Silver Sonya]

Originally Posted by SFTPH

Yeah DOOOD, and you can tell the bank that has your house and car note that you can't pay them this month because "only sh*tty bands want me to record them but I'm holier than tho"
USE AUTOTUNE, BEAT DETECTIVE AND SOUNDREPLACER
FIX THE BULLSHIT
GET PAID

Whoa. Lovely. Maybe you guys should start a studio together? And that should be the motto you put on your website.

Appalling.

I would never do any of this and let me tell you I get paid every day of the year. If I felt that I had to do any of the above to survive and pay the bills, I would get another job. There are other professions, y'know?

There's a weird karma to running a studio. The studios in my town that go under are the studios that don't have a real heart or a vibe. People respond to passion and energy. Ultimately, people can sense the energy coming off of you. Clients are drawn by great records that you have been involved with, records that have moved them as listeners. Or they are drawn by word-of-mouth from musicians they respect who have had positive experiences with you. That's pretty much it. Usually you have to have made a few records that people genuinely like before the phone rings every day.

In the absence of real fans and community enthusiasm, you are going to eek out a very meager living and probably be stressed out and unhappy. And poor.

The only way to survive in the studio business is to be fortunate or deserving enough to be involved with music people like. Autotuning and fixing bullshit ain't gonna get ya there. Trust me. I have seen many, many studios fail.

If only sh*tty bands want to record with you, after a while you have to ask yourself the obvious question...

- c

[James Meeker]

Originally Posted by SFTPH

Yeah DOOOD, and you can tell the bank that has your house and car note that you can't pay them this month because "only sh*tty bands want me to record them but I'm holier than tho"
USE AUTOTUNE, BEAT DETECTIVE AND SOUNDREPLACER
FIX THE BULLSHIT
GET PAID

My motivation is to work with the best talent I can, make the best records I am capable of, and make sure that it is a positive experience for myself and the artist.

[joelpatterson]

Originally Posted by Silver Sonya

That's pretty much it.

Tell the truth, brother.

[Jayro_Rockola]

I can't believe you guys are still giving me shit. I'm making good records for satisfied clients. Save your holier than thou breath for someone who cares!

[SFTPH]

The point is: you get paid to make a client happy. Some take more $$$ than others but if they leave satisfied, great. You are the employee (remember). Who are you to tell them they or their art sucks or is not good enough. Use the tools at hand to help them with their artistic vision. As long as you only bill hours actually worked, WTF is the problem?