Metallic... Kings X... They Love my Mixes... DAMNED if They'll Credit Me! NOT JOKING

[dbbubba]

Last summer I gave my friend in Hollywood a copy of the ZROCK live broadcast we did of Kings X here in Dallas back in 1992.
I mixed the radio show and my friend assisted on the crew.
He sorta' knows the guys in the band, so he gave them a dub when they played at the Hollywood House of Blues.

Well, of course they released the recording on CD.
Of course, MY name is nowhere on the package!

Same story as the Metallica show I mixed in 1989...

Lesson learned... DON'T GIVE AWAY COPIES OF YOUR MIXES BECAUSE EVEN THE "BIG TIMERS" WON'T CREDIT YOU.

[dbbubba]

WOW!

Everyone is afraid to comment!

[danranges]

i dunno what to say other than that really blows. but thanks for the advice.

[headwerkn]

hunt them down and threaten them with a flail until they beg for mercy and give you 3 points... i'm sure Lars will give in the moment he hears the chain rattle!

of course you could sue, etc... but this way is more fun, and you can dress up like a Viking...

[Clayphish]

Originally Posted by dbbubba

Last summer I gave my friend in Hollywood a copy of the ZROCK live broadcast we did of Kings X here in Dallas back in 1992.
I mixed the radio show and my friend assisted on the crew.
He sorta' knows the guys in the band, so he gave them a dub when they played at the Hollywood House of Blues.

Well, of course they released the recording on CD.
Of course, MY name is nowhere on the package!

Same story as the Metallica show I mixed in 1989...

Lesson learned... DON'T GIVE AWAY COPIES OF YOUR MIXES BECAUSE EVEN THE "BIG TIMERS" WON'T CREDIT YOU.

Did you try contacting them?

[dbbubba]

Ohhhhh.. I was paid for the tracking and actual mix by the label or Q Prime Management in Metallica's case.

Just being decent enough to include my name as the mixer would be nice.
It was on the box.
(The Kings X show was a 1:1 clone dub that my friend made of the show, so his copy might not have my name.)

The Metallica definitely did.

[allencollins]

Originally Posted by dbbubba

Last summer I gave my friend in Hollywood a copy of the ZROCK live broadcast we did of Kings X here in Dallas back in 1992.
I mixed the radio show and my friend assisted on the crew.
He sorta' knows the guys in the band, so he gave them a dub when they played at the Hollywood House of Blues.

Well, of course they released the recording on CD.
Of course, MY name is nowhere on the package!

Same story as the Metallica show I mixed in 1989...

Lesson learned... DON'T GIVE AWAY COPIES OF YOUR MIXES BECAUSE EVEN THE "BIG TIMERS" WON'T CREDIT YOU.

I have mixes I did of Metallica and Kings X too. The Metallica shows were from 83 at the rat, 84 at the Channel and the Kings X show was 88 or 89 at the paradise. I doubt they know about my mixes. I love my old boots. I'm so proud......


But seriously look at all the riffs Mustaine wrote that showed up on Puppets. They didn't give him credit. I wouldn't hold your breath those guys are greedy ego maniacs now. Especially Lars

[slaves666]

If you have substantial proof.....I'd contact management. You were paid, but album credits are what matters most. I doubt they will recall all the CD's, but maybe compensate you for the mistake, and on a future pressing, correct the error.

[wurly200]

Unless you have a contract stating your credit, they don't have to credit you.

Check out some old records. Rolling Stones, Motown, ...

Very little or no credits. Musicians, engineers, studios, ...

[wurly200]

Originally Posted by slaves666

If you have substantial proof.....I'd contact management. You were paid, but album credits are what matters most. I doubt they will recall all the CD's, but maybe compensate you for the mistake, and on a future pressing, correct the error.

Uhh, I would say getting paid matters more than getting your credit. Especially in todays world with record labels allocating smaller budgets and waiting as long as they can to pay.

I think it would be better to keep the relation with management positive rather than asking for compensation because you weren't given an engineering credit.

[Ken Lewis]

while it sucks that you lost your credit, this is kind of endemic in this industry. My name has been left off of several huge records i've worked on. Many of these records i actively made sure the right people had all of my credits, and then i often followed up again only to be left off. Not much you can do really, it just sucks that some people are so bad at their desk jobs that they cant even get a credit correct on a record after you've spent hundreds of hours making their artist sound good. I feel your pain.

[travisbrown]

I'd contact management and say that you'd have appreciated credit. They don't have to credit you if not contactually bound to, but you never know what might come out of it.

KX mightn't even known who the mix engineer was.

Next time I guess you should stipulate a credit in you contract, at least in something like your Metallica gig.

[w2w]

I'm not a producer, but I play one on Gearslutz.com

Im sorry, I just noticed your quote.....Now Thats f@#king funny!!!

(And sadly, a little true sometimes)

[biggator6]

back when I was actually doing this for money (I've since stopped) - I had my name spelled no less than 3 different ways on records that I GOT credit on.. forget the ones that left it off altogether. My name isn't all that hard to spell, either.
"-)

[mu6gr8]

Sorry to hear that you didn't get credit. When you *can* get paper (contract or deal memo) before doing the gig or releasing the recordings, it's wise to specify exactly how the credit shall read, and where it will be placed, i.e. tray card & booklet, all print ads 1/4 page or larger, etc. Even with this protection, I've still had a couple slip through the cracks over the years, but the documentation helps everybody remember what the original agreement was. That paper would be useful if it was important enough to rectify the situation.

I've seen people actually negotiate for the credit they want. I heard about a guy who brought two hard-to-get players to a session, and got the mix credit while the mixer settled for an engineer credit on a massive hit single. That was the deal that everyone agreed to up front. I settled for a mix credit on a big hit that I mixed and co-produced because it was important to the artist to keep 100% of the production credit. As much as I would have enjoyed the producer credit, the deal was absolutely worth doing in terms of financial compensation. Plus, people in the record business tend to find out the true inside scoop anyway.

Bummer that you never had the chance to negotiate for anything in the case of KX...

[pulse_divider]

Originally Posted by allencollins

I have mixes I did of Metallica and Kings X too. The Metallica shows were from 83 at the rat,

I would LOVE to hear that!

[peeder]

A wander through allmusic.com for me should have a bunch of things listed that were just never typed in I guess. Oh wellz!

But not having an accurate credits database gives you plenty of latitude to lie!

(And bitching about not being credited is even more ego-gratifying than being listed in the fine print anyway, non? )

[thedoner]

Yeah, I feel your pain,
It sucks when you go out an pick up a CD that you worked on, anxiously expecting to see your name, and then....Nothin'!
This has happened to me a number of times while working as a staff engineer somewhere, and the artist will come by for some overdubs while on tour, sans engineer.
It seems that you're likely to be forgotten in the credits unless you've been hired specifically by the producer or label, and have been with the project from its inception. Last time this happened, I recorded all the GTR's on a track for a major label rock band. Turns out, the song ends up as the single, and gets used in prominently in a big movie as well
Oh well, at least I got paid for my time.
-G

[big country]

I'm reminded of the south park episode on downloading music

[Brent Hahn]

Originally Posted by thedoner

Yeah, I feel your pain,
It sucks when you go out an pick up a CD that you worked on, anxiously expecting to see your name...

It's even less fun in the world of post-production, where you get to beat your brains out mixing a show from the opening tease to the closing credits... which are minus you.

[crypticglobe]

Originally Posted by dbbubba

Ohhhhh.. I was paid for the tracking and actual mix by the label or Q Prime Management in Metallica's case.

Just being decent enough to include my name as the mixer would be nice.
It was on the box.
(The Kings X show was a 1:1 clone dub that my friend made of the show, so his copy might not have my name.)

The Metallica definitely did.

Sorry to be harsh on you here friend, but this is your fault.

If you did not have a written agreement about what you would do, what you would be compensated for it, and what credits you would receive, that is your own fault. If you did.... then pursue a breach of contract suit.... with the MANAGEMENT company/label.

It bothers me that you are trying to lay this on the "bands". Dude... all that stuff is handled by management. You should be here complaining about the music business and the management of those bands NOT the bands.

The way you make it sound Hetfield and Pinnick both personally didn't like the clothes you were wearing that night, remembered you months later, and told the record company to screw you by leaving your name off the record.

The bands probably remember almost NOTHING about that show, and certainly not you. It's not because of personality defects... but these guys experience a SEA of faces/names when they are on tour. Getting the credits right is NOT their job.

So... I suggest you change the name of your thread to reflect who your real beef is with. The management companies and the music industry as a whole.

Further more... you think this whole thing is going to positively effect you, and your career how??!?!?

[big country]

Originally Posted by crypticglobe

Sorry to be harsh on you here friend, but this is your fault.

you shouldn't expect people to have class

[allencollins]

Originally Posted by pulse_divider

I would LOVE to hear that!

83 at the Ratskellar was a great show. Metallica backed up Raven
The funny thing was I had never heard of Metallica I went to see the back up band Steel Assassin. They were a great band. I have to admit as corny as this sounds my life was never the same musically.
It was very inspiring. The heavest band I had ever seen up until then was Tank or Maiden.
When you put things in perspective Metallica was truely an inspiration and on of the most original bands of all time. Alot of musically 'mature' people hate them. They just don't get it.

The tape I have is a crowd tape. Not very good. I do have a soundboard tape of the 84 show though. I went to see them again with assassin backing them up the second time. That was a weird show. Metallica's gear got stolen the night before

I was talking to the Assassin drummer about 6 months ago he told me lars actually used his drums and broke all his sticks at sound check. This was on a sunday so in 1984 when nothing was opened on sunday. He had to use broken sticks for the gig so did lars supposedly.

anyway I guess Jamez was so bummed about the gear getting stolen he wrote fade to black in the tour bus behind the channel that night. And the rest is history as they say.......

[DJMostar]

I would looove that 84 SBD show sometime,too... if that's possible...

Bubba, was that 89 show the show from Dallas? If so, I've heard it before, when I was like 16 and knew absolutely nothing about the music business... except that that mix sounded awesome! This was when I'd download '93 audience bootlegs and be unable to distinguish them, sound-wise, from the Live Shit official CD release... and that Dalass show still stuck out as having unusually good sound. I am almost certain that I have lost track of it though as I've gone through half a dozen hard drives and as far as I know, that show was never officially released... if you could point me to somewhere I could find it though, that would be really great!

[DJMostar]

Mmmm, early '80s Met soundboards...

DBBubba, I've got a SBD (*somewhere*) of a show from March 1988 in Dalass, is that the show your'e talking about? Or was it a different one? I don't recall any official live releases from Metallica at all until 1993 with the Live Shit album--if you could find me a way to get ahold of a copy of your work I would love to hear it!

[colinmiller]

Most of the biggest projects I work on I get credited as an assistant instead of engineer. I would much rather get no credit at all and be perfectly content with no credit. It's the wrong credits that suck. Although I think I once did get mixing credit on something I assisted once, but its almost always the other way around. Anyways, I would prefer my name be left off most stuff I work on.

[dbbubba]

Originally Posted by DJMostar

Mmmm, early '80s Met soundboards...

DBBubba, I've got a SBD (*somewhere*) of a show from March 1988 in Dalass, is that the show your'e talking about? Or was it a different one? I don't recall any official live releases from Metallica at all until 1993 with the Live Shit album--if you could find me a way to get ahold of a copy of your work I would love to hear it!

The CD with my Metallica mixes was released in Europe.
It might have even been a promo thing.
My friend had it, but it was quite a few years ago, so I forget the details now.
It was released in the mid '90s (as I seem to recall.)
The show was Dallas and I believe it was recorded in December of 1989.
I have the original DAT, but I'd have to dig it up in the the vault/closet.

My name was all over the broadcast when I did the shows and it was aired.
I was paid good money.

Oh, I am not THAT bugged about it..
I just wanted to point out how it happens.

I really wanted to brag and get my ego gratification like PEEDER said I did.
He's so insightful.

[84K]

They probably don't know who mixed it themselves. And besides, the Label probably added it to the release. The might not even know those discs are out there. They have a lot on their plates, I'm sure.

[dbbubba]

It was handed to the band members themselves in both situations.

The CD dubs that my friend gave to Kings X was from a DAT that he cloned at our studio right after it was recorded.
He probably didn't copy my name on it.

All of the other artists and bands who released the mixes as CDs not only gave credit, but sent me a copy of the CD as well.

I wish that I never mentioned this now!

[Sigma]

Originally Posted by dbbubba

WOW!

Everyone is afraid to comment!

dude unless you were paid to record it they shoulda PAID for the recording..talk to a lwayer