The difference is easy: Telemann was a composer, Scarlotti is a Marvel character. Although Bach was a better composer (IMHO), Telemann and Scarlatti (which one did you refer to, by the way: father or son) certainly didn't write "I-IV-V garbage". Just a wild guess: you never listened to their music.
Last edited by TGV; 16th October 2012 at 02:21 PM..
Reason: wrong quote
To me, lyrics have very little to do with music, IMO. More important to me is harmonic structures, rhythm, and execution.
Is popular music worse now than before? How could anyone really, truly know?
I submit that it is arrogant for someone to assume that he could know everything about all music and culture, and therefore be enabled to cast ultimate and absolute judgement on all popular culture without reprimand or argument. e.g. No one could pass the test of the ultimate arbiter, which would require knowing everything about all music every produced in the history of mankind.
However, individuals can have valid opinions on the few songs that they actually know, and then pit them against a tainted and rose-coloured memories of the wonderful songs and times of the past. But is that real or valid? Not really, is it?
I grew up with the Beatles. They were awesome, and created a lot of wonderful music.
My point is simply that in ADDITION to the great stuff they did (generally later),
they also created a ton of CHEESY stuff.
That's all.
I'm not saying their music sucked, per se.
But you can't deny sucky lyrics.
Frank Zappa pointed out that our country is a country poisoned by LOVE LYRICS.
That said, it's the same in most cultures - and throughout history.
And one could argue - what else is there REALLY to write about?
And this is all well and good - I'm just saying an introspective, well-crafted lyric
is way more interesting than "Love, Love Me, Do"....that's all.
It's all good - and we should all dig whatever we want, of course.
It's just that if we're going to use blanket statements like - all music sucks now -
then, I'm just going to point out that certain elements of music have ALWAYS sucked.
Can you REALLY tell the difference between Telemann and Scarlotti, for example?
No?....Well, then, why? Because music sucked back then, as well.
Everyone was writing the same I-IV-V garbage with the same voice leading -
perhaps with a few exceptions, like JS Bach, etc.
So, everything is just a question of perspective.
And, it's just TOO EASY to say music sucks now, and used to be great.
Every single generation says the SAME thing.
I wanna hold your hand, Murray - so please, LOVE ME DO!!
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So I guess the Dark Ages never happened huh? Society and its output has always been of the same quality all the time? It's all a matter of how old you were? Do realize how absurd a notion that is???
And I'm sorry Sqye. I love you man but you quite clearly don't know what makes a good lyric. A good lyric is quite simply the MOST APPROPRIATE LYRIC TO THE MUSIC AT HAND. That's it. As a self-contained entity, Love Me Do has absolutely stellar lyrics that couldn't possibly be bettered. They are 1000% compatible to and prosodic with the music. Job done.
And Bon Iver sucks donkey balls.
__________________ 'If you can't hear Freddie Green, you are too loud.'
I think also we already used up all permutations of pleasent chord progressions. Everything sounds the same because it is the same.
I listen on sundays to classical music from India. It is different.
And well I also do not disagree with all the business stuff you mentioned in this topic.
Here also a song where you will not find its notes on a piano keyboard:
However, individuals can have valid opinions on the few songs that they actually know, and then pit them against a tainted and rose-coloured memories of the wonderful songs and times of the past. But is that real or valid? Not really, is it?
I don't agree with the tainted and rose-coloured bit. Do people appreciate Bach now because he was putting out hits when they were younger? Those people must be awfully old now.
There is just as much, if not more, of a rose-coloured attitude towards music of the present.
Right now, (or last week), Gangnam Style is/was beloved. Is that not a tainted appreciation? A temporary insanity?
Couldn't pay attention to video with horrible "score music" in the background. Anyone else find it funny what they are discussing and then just have a horrible sustaining pad that seems completely over dramatic and out of place in the background?
A good lyric is quite simply the MOST APPROPRIATE LYRIC TO THE MUSIC AT HAND. That's it. As a self-contained entity, Love Me Do has absolutely stellar lyrics that couldn't possibly be bettered. They are 1000% compatible to and prosodic with the music. Job done.
Agree!! I had a similar post, mentioning James Brown among other things, but I lost interest.
Quote:
And Bon Iver sucks donkey balls.
Well, I pretty much agree. That is, they ain't all that. I'd just as soon listen to Gangnam Style. Er, not really. But there sure as shit wouldn't be a second-rate Bon Iver if there hadn't been a Beatles and many others from long long long ago.
I was just pointing out that there's always been cheesy crap on the radio,
and those Love Me Do lyrics make me want to puke on my shoes.
....as opposed to the Stacks lyrics, which are a good degree more sophisticated, honest and introspective.
Of course, there's a ton of great stuff created by the Beatles, and likewise a lot of shite from Bon Iver, but my point is - there has ALWAYS been crappy tripe on the radio...ALWAYS!!!
And Love Me Do is a great example of crappy, cheesy radio tripe with the cheesiest lyrics on planet Earth.
I mean, gimme a freeking BREAK - there is not POSSIBLY a more CHEESY, RIDICULOUS lyric in human music history!
Love, love me do - you know I love you. I'll always be true....so, pleeeeeeeze, love me do.
Sorry, but someone's drunk too much freeking nostalgic rose-colored Beatles cool aid!!
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You're judging an entire body of work from one song, which was their first song, if that was where the ended you might have a point, but if that was where they ended they wouldn't be so legendary. A lot of their lyrics are great, particularly John Lennon's from the last 4 or 5 albums. "Tomorrow Never Knows", "I Am the Walrus", "Across the Universe", "Sexy Sadie", "The Continuing Story of Bunaglow Bill", "Strawberry Fields Forever". Not as good as Bob Dylan or David Bowie but nobody is. If you showed some of your work it would be pretty easy to insult it.
There are much more cheesy lyrics than early Beatles. How about "Moves like Jagger" by Maroon 5? That is recent to boot, not early '60s. The Beach Boys had much worse lyrics than the Beatles. Jay Z's lyrics are just as bad as "Love me do" but the difference is the Beatles would agree the lyrics suck but Jay Z thinks he is a genius poet.
Today's mainstream music sucks but not today's music in general. I'm into a lot new/modern artists that I think are fantastic. Porcupine Tree being one of favorite modern bands. Jakob is another. So not sure what u guys are talking about.
lots of good music out there....and tons of crap. where the real problem lies is that there's waaaaaaaaaaay to much of all of it so its a total mind fukk temporal lobe overload.
I've been thinking about this a lot lately. I recently bought a new turntable because I thought the old days sounded better. But I have to say, the albums don't sound better, they actually sounds pretty weak. But the music is more appealing and holds a lot of memories for me. So its really the memory that I miss.
I often wonder how so many people on these forums actually think plug-ins sound as good as hardware. To me, plug-ins sound flat and dead compared to a comparable analog gear. But they work really good with music with little transients left.
And then it came to me. If we were all recording "acoustic music, with " REAL" musicians there would be a hell of a lot more people thinking less of plug-ins. But we are also in hard times and the era of computer music so we use it and think its good enough.
So, without going on, electronic music sounds excellent when its in its own crowd but when you start mixing both real music with electronic beats , it starts to get weird to my ears. Thus, why I am using hybrid methods to "glue it per-say".
Finally, 4 generations have passed since I first started recording. That makes me over 50 years old now. The world doesn't have a lot of 50 years olds the are "in tune" with this all. Most engineers my age have never even used a sampler or MIDI for gawd sakes! So when we talk about Pop music, a lot of people are clueless whats really going on. Engineers are still trying to make acoustic drums sound electronis.
There are some serious gaps between the business and in these forums around the world.
So when we read these forums for opinions, keep in mind that the shift has been towards electronic music and DAW overkill for about 20 years now. If you are confused over what gear to use, remember who is telling you what.... Whats good for one really sucks for another. Its the manufacturers that are really taking a hit. Nothing makes sense.
Bottom line in this little rant, I think today's music sounds better than it ever has. The beat rip offs are what is getting boring. It all sounds like its been through a masher more than once. Recycled music is something my generation would never be proud of. But I do appreciate how this generation is becoming creative mixing it all up.
You're judging an entire body of work from one song, which was their first song, if that was where the ended you might have a point, but if that was where they ended they wouldn't be so legendary. A lot of their lyrics are great, particularly John Lennon's from the last 4 or 5 albums. "Tomorrow Never Knows", "I Am the Walrus", "Across the Universe", "Sexy Sadie", "The Continuing Story of Bunaglow Bill", "Strawberry Fields Forever". Not as good as Bob Dylan or David Bowie but nobody is. If you showed some of your work it would be pretty easy to insult it.
There are much more cheesy lyrics than early Beatles. How about "Moves like Jagger" by Maroon 5? That is recent to boot, not early '60s. The Beach Boys had much worse lyrics than the Beatles. Jay Z's lyrics are just as bad as "Love me do" but the difference is the Beatles would agree the lyrics suck but Jay Z thinks he is a genius poet.
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You obviously didn't read my posts. I love the Beatles' later work.
So I guess the Dark Ages never happened huh? Society and its output has always been of the same quality all the time? It's all a matter of how old you were? Do realize how absurd a notion that is???
And I'm sorry Sqye. I love you man but you quite clearly don't know what makes a good lyric. A good lyric is quite simply the MOST APPROPRIATE LYRIC TO THE MUSIC AT HAND. That's it. As a self-contained entity, Love Me Do has absolutely stellar lyrics that couldn't possibly be bettered. They are 1000% compatible to and prosodic with the music. Job done.
And Bon Iver sucks donkey balls.
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Gimmme a break.
Those lyrics are simply the stupidest lyrics, period.
The "most appropriate"? Really?
That's BS.
I'm not buying it - sorry.
Yoo wanna extol the virtues of super dumb lyrics, I just don't know what to say.
In another thread, I had this guy telling me Bach's talent is a learned skill as opposed to inspiration backed up by solid work.
This statement confuses me. Where's the talent bit here? Bach followed a normal training for a musician, as many others did, yet his music stands out in comparison to most of his contemporaries.
This statement confuses me. Where's the talent bit here? Bach followed a normal training for a musician, as many others did, yet his music stands out in comparison to most of his contemporaries.
Thanks for that! Had no idea this footage existed..
My 2 cents.. Opinion will only be just that; one person's opinion. In the end it's the music with melodies that transcend the ages that end up being remembered and mattering.
Whether it is Mozart's "A Little Night Music", Grieg's "Morning Mood", Gershwin's "Summertime", Cole Porter's "Night and Day", The Beatles "Something", etc, etc.
There are a lot of modern acts I like (most recently the Chevin). But the greats are few and far between and its rare that there is a real songwriter in the midst of them that is capable of writing something that lasts.
Those lyrics are simply the stupidest lyrics, period.
Exactly. That's my point.
Dumb lyrics are PRECISELEY what this song needed and The Beatles were always astute enough to recognize the demands of a song. Love Me Do is as elemental and seamless as Happy Birthday or Twinkle Twinkle. The prosody is absolutely top-class and that's the single most important thing in songwriting. It's all too common for a layperson or musician/writer of lesser understanding/ability to miss this important fact.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sqye
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The "most appropriate"? Really?
That's BS.
Yes. The most appropriate lyrics to the musical context are the best lyrics. And that's not BS. That's songwriting 101.
Do you really think the music in "Love Me Do" needs a heavier sociopolitical bent? I suppose "We Will Rock You" would benefit from an awareness of Maslow's triangle? "Jump" should think a little bit more?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sqye
I'm not buying it - sorry.
Yoo wanna extol the virtues of super dumb lyrics, I just don't know what to say.
You don't have to like it. I don't particularly like Love Me Do myself. But as a fully realized, self-contained, conceptualization, there's absolutely nothing that you could pick apart and improve in that song. And if you want to argue that point go and write your better lyrics and show me!!
Thanks for that! Had no idea this footage existed..
My 2 cents.. Opinion will only be just that; one person's opinion. In the end it's the music with melodies that transcend the ages that end up being remembered and mattering.
Whether it is Mozart's "A Little Night Music", Grieg's "Morning Mood", Gershwin's "Summertime", Cole Porter's "Night and Day", The Beatles "Something", etc, etc.
There are a lot of modern acts I like (most recently the Chevin). But the greats are few and far between and its rare that there is a real songwriter in the midst of them that is capable of writing something that lasts.
Yep, and to generalize (because there are certainly exceptions), one might say today the focus is on making records, as opposed to making a recording of a great song.
First....the question is what is referred to as a complex question because it assumes that a state of affairs obtains just by the form of the question. It's like saying "When did you stop beating your wife?" Well..either way you answer you proceed on the assumption that the person beats there wife.
This statement assumes right off the cuff that music today sucks, and I don't buy that assumption for one second. "Well...I don't like any of it, so it sucks." Well...because one does not like only makes a statement about their preferences....it does not thereby immediately render it's object, music, to a qualitatively inferior state otherwise reflected in what is only a statement of subjective belief...."I THINK/BELIEVE that music today sucks." That establishes nothing. Music today is more diverse and more different than ever, so there is certainly a wide variety of it to otherwise cast aspersion on.
I will answer this way. I have found that, in general, the more you love music, the more music you love. My personal musical tastes are horrifyingly narrow, classical, electronic, and narrow slices of jazz. That's it, but I love a great deal of music in a more general sense in that while I do not commit to following or studying that particular music, I do like, or even love it.
TO conclude, I can only assume that rather than trying to bandy about with a ill-formed statement of "WHy does music today suck?" perhaps the beginning statement should be more like..."I find myself disliking a greater amount of music today than ever before and the music being made today in general seems to be of a vastly inferior quality than that of a some other point in time where I seemed to generally like more of the music. That's longhand for sure, but perhaps it allows us more arrange and think about.
I can't say I originated it....I've heard it in several forms, but that's the one I"ve adopted, and I believe, quite apart from my connection to it, that it is profoundly and universally true. It's an expanding qualitative relationship.
.....but yeah u're right , most of the commercial even the underground crap is CRAP :D
Too many kids with no skills with powerful laptops. The plague started in the DJ world where any amateurs could buy a Dj'ing program and would think that they are GOD DJS.
Now the internet is littered with stupid low level music!!
Heart - to Chord - to Lyrics - to source ...just not there anymore ....
Just the time it required to write .. get a band ... find the studio & financing ...produce the final product >>> and then for the consumer to even hear it > was an enormous feat back in those creative days ~~~ before the NET.
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