Part of the solution---if you shop at Guitar Center, read this

[dasmetre]

I'm the general Manager for GC in Fountain Valley, CA and have a question for you guys--

What do we need to do better? I want to be a part of the solution.
Thanks
Eli

ps--I hope this doesn't turn into a "you guys suck" thread, because that's not going to help us get better at what we do.

thanks again!

[kittonian]

I got one for you because I just left one of your stores. The sales guy btw was extremely kind and fairly knowledgeable (guitars not recording).

The thing you can do better is to not let the following situation repeat itself.

When I went to the store last week to checkout a 72' Telecaster Custom Reissue I was given a price of $600 (tag is $689.99 so it wasn't a massive discount but nice nonetheless). I went back this week to try a few more Tele's out before I made my decision (partly because the 72' is Mexican made and the sales guy and I had already discussed that he would order me a new one because the toggle switch and input jack were a bit funky on the one in the store).

So, I go back in tonight, played through a bunch and decided that in fact the 72' custom was exactly the sound I was looking for and I was going to place the order. The sales guy goes to put it all in the computer and says he needs to get his manager's approval on the pricing, etc. No problem, I wait. 20 minutes later he comes back and says his manager won't let him move 1 penny because they are going to order the guitar instead of selling me the one off the shelf. So, I explained that I can get that same price from anyone and avoid tax if I order either online or from Fender directly and he agreed.

Basically, even my sales guy said he wouldn't buy it then and there either and thus I left and will place the order from somewhere else. On top of that, I was told that GC would only cover ground shipping straight from Fender and that it could be a few weeks before I actually have it. Plus, I'd have to pay for it all up front and even if it showed up and was terrible I'd still have to take it. Not too cool considering I was hoping to have this by mid-next week and in the past it's always been a lot faster with the option of actually playing the guitar before laying out the money.

It's not that I mind paying for it up front but on top of everything else, including the negotiated deal being completely ignored by the store manager, I left without making a purchase. Personally, I won't buy a guitar without playing it first. We aren't talking about tried and true recording gear here. We are talking about an instrument where you can line up 10 of the same model and every single one will sound and feel different.

[tenchijin2]

The only problems I've ever had at guitar center were sales people.

If you can find a way to get higher caliber people (in *general*) and keep them happy that'd make a big difference. I don't like the trained sales-dog approach that I often get. I've had several guys who would tell me almost *anything*, true or not, to get me to buy something. Fortunately I'm knowledgeable enough about my purchases to know when I'm being bamboozled but it irritates me to no end.

[JDN]

I don't frankly shop at guitar center very much, and I don't mean this to come off anti guitar center. My general experiences have been that sales staff isn't very knowledgable and is often more interested in making a sale and telling you what you want to hear. However, I do understand that it's not the best paying job and they are, after all, comisson based sales people(as pretty much all audio sales people are).

For me guitar center definitely has a place, like if I want or need something now and know what it is. On the positive side, they have a great return policy...never had trouble returning an item at guitar center

oh yea, and please stop with the commercials every other week announcing that "this is our biggest sale ever, 1 time only, we've never had a sale this big and never will again."

[lowfreq33]

Okay, I'll bite.

You need to train your people better. I can't speak for your store, I've never shopped there, but I feel like someone who sells the stuff should have more than a passing knowledge of what they sell.

If someone walks in and says "I want X", you should give them X. No "what are you using it for", or "why would you want that", if someone knows what they want, more than likely they've researched it already. I'm lucky enough to have found a good guy at my local GC, but before that I was pretty fed up with the place. Music people are typically pretty loyal, and if you take care of us we probably won't buy from anyone else. We're also easily offended, and if you try to b.s. us we're out the door, never to return. If someone comes in and wants to buy something from Manley or Empirical Labs, you should probably assume that they know what they want. If my guy's got the day off, I'll come back tomorrow.

How about a setup on all those guitars? If I walk into a music store, the guitars on the wall should be ready to play. I won't buy something based on how great it will be after I spend more money to get it set up properly, it should be right before it ever hits the sales floor.

Service. I can go to 50 different websites and get the same price on any piece of gear, +/- $10. What are you doing to set yourself apart from the competition? I'm not talking about the b.s. "personal touch" they do at Sweetwater, calling to see if there's anything you need to buy. Guess what? If I needed something I would have called you! Can you go lower on the price? is there a rebate I don't know about? can you throw in a couple of cables? Professionals should get a better deal than the general public. Why? Because they buy more gear! You want our business, or at least you should.

[lowfreq33]

Speaking of GC ads, here's one we did for a laugh.

[Oldone]

Ok, here is one that occurred in your very store yesterday.

I asked for a price on a UAD1 card and was told the price was $437 plus tax. On the register there was a promotion that indicated if I bought something over $99 with a gift card, which I had, it would knock 10% off the price.

I pointed this out to the sales rep and he tells me that it is only 10% off the list price, the ad however said 10% off GCs everyday price which I thought he had quoted to me. Basically its a promotion that no one will take advantage of because most of your people, according to your sales rep, get a better price break. I think this is deceptive and disingenuous.

I paid the price but did not leave feeling a very valued or respected customer.

[bunnerabb]

Your problem is your business model.

You plugged gear into new car sales techniques, your sales people make a draw against their sales numbers and are pushy, have no knowledge of the equipment ( in pro audio ) you can't keep knowledgeable people living on peanuts and you can't keep customers by having 20 year old kids shove the highest profit margin crap off on them.

I'm afraid nothing short of a business model overhaul will keep your customer base within the margins of people who know what they want and have a valid checkbook handy.

My last visit to your N. Olmsted, OH store, almost verbatim:


"I need a couple of cables for my keyboard rig"

"DUDE THOSE SUCK.. YOU NEED MONSTER. BEST IN THE INDUSTRY. ONLY WAY TO GO"

"Well, I do a lot of pro au.."

"DUDE. BUY THE MONSTER. IT'S YOUR ONLY CHOICE. SERIOUSLY."

"I see."

I also need a small, chromatic tuner for a gui..."

'DUDE. THIS ONE. THERE'S NO GOOD TUNER UNDER 79.00"

"And yet you sell them?"

"DUDE, THIS IS THE TUNER YOU WANT. LET ME RING IT UP."

*sigh*

"And a set of str.."

'DUDE, DO YOU PLAY .009s? YOU NEED .010s. 009s SUCK."

You try wading through that horseshit from some kid that you have T-shirts older than, in the process of trying to spend a C note and you'll see what the problem is.

[lowfreq33]

That's another thing. I don't want to hear anything about list price. Don't tell me I'm getting such-and-such off the list price, because that's not what you sell it for. I want to know what you can give me off the retail price. If it's nothing, then tell me that. Don't act like anyone out there is selling at list price, because in this day and age, nobody is.

[lowfreq33]

I can see this being the most unifying thread in Gearslutz history.

[squeeks555]

hire more knowledgeable people, then train them like they know nothing, especially when new items come out. dont push stuff on people, if they know what they want, get it for them, then mabey ask or suggest other items based on what they just picked up. i go to the sunset location and i have never had a problem, but im never getting big items.

[initialsBB]

If I'm just picking up some picks or a set of strings I really don't want to have to give you my name and address. It's not that I'm paranoid about you getting my info or anything (although it is a bit sleazy) it's just kind of a hassle. If I'm paying with a credit card the sales guy should see my name on the damn credit card and since I'm already in the system he can figure out who the hell I am in 2 seconds. I feel like an idiot standing there reciting my address each time.

[joelpatterson]

Stop the drug testing (or whatever you do) to weed out anyone with any common sense!

[Old Cane]

I must be the only guy that likes GC so I guess I've spent millions to keep them in business over the years. Apparently all of you have left in disgust.

Guys, I'll bet WAY less than 1% of instrument owners are pros. The store makes it's money on Joe Blow. Joe don't know. Joe has a DAY JOB and a STEADY PAYCHECK. He wants guitar and goes to a pro shop. He gets treated like a moron which he may or may not be, because he's not "one of us". This drives him to the Walmarts of the music world. He goes in, the kids working there are glad to see him and he buys something. Does he know what he got? Maybe not. Does he care? Probably not. Does the kid that sold it to him know every detail of a MIM Strat? Who cares. Does the Goodyear store deal with nothing but professional race car drivers? No, they deal with us that just wwant to drive to work every day just like GC does. If they counted on pros to keep the doors open.....well....they would have hocked the doors years ago.

If you need a pro in GC ask for one! I've done it and got them. I don't need to talk to a top level studio session player to buy a couple of single strings. The kid behind the counter can just have me point if he doesn't know what a string is.

Does Home Depot have highly skilled carpenters in the wood department for $6 an hour? Ha, good one. Their business model is trying to employ enough unskilled people to stay open. Yes, GC has made it hard on small stores but that's just the way things are.

As far as discounting, let me tell you a little secret. Now, GC buys in such quantity they probably get deeper cuts but on guitars and most drums, let's say retail (msrp, not the stores everyday price) is $1000. The dealer (store) pays $500 plus shipping. GC marks it $650 and will sell it for $600. Holy crap, that's a deal! You guys want it for $400. Well buy used. Maybe some of you guys are too young to remember the moma and pop stores that treated us like we were buying gas. If retail was $999 you can bet they asked $999 and if you were a good customer you could sometimes get it for $900. If you were a real good customer you'd get it for $800 after you'd shopped there for years.

I like GC and have gottne good deals and as good of a deal as I could get anywhere else. The GC pro in Nashville is someone that knows his gear and will find out if you want something out of his range of expertise. What else coud one ask? I can't get stuff cheaper anywhere else.


Eli, you gotta get the worms back in the can, buddy.

[funkcity]

Originally Posted by dasmetre

I'm the general Manager for GC in Fountain Valley, CA and have a question for you guys--

What do we need to do better? I want to be a part of the solution.
Thanks
Eli

ps--I hope this doesn't turn into a "you guys suck" thread, because that's not going to help us get better at what we do.

thanks again!

Are you authorized to conduct a survey regarding your whole company on a public forum like this?


My MOST recent experience:
New store on Pico in West Los Angeles.
This is a gorgeous store. They obviously sunk a ton of money into this place.
I had to fend off 20 plus employees.... new store more help than customers.

I saw a new Euphonix System 5 MC that was supposed to be running the new Apple Logic platform..... It was crashed and nobody knew how to reboot!
Nice.... I thought well maybe..... but I was wrong. Sales folks were not trained.

Hmm...

[Acoustic Cloud]

This is the thing here that is wrong. Since markup in the last 30 years has gone down 90%, GC cant employ the knowledgable persons everyone wants. Most audio companies have been responsible also, for doing this to themselves. Why would anyone expect a doink working at Starbucks to have alot of knowledge about other tech specs like pres mics boards amps guitars, etc?!??! They make the same $$$ per hour!!

Especially since GC was just sold 12 months ago, for whatever millions, there may be a new desire to figure out how to do better, whats already been screwed up for years.......good luck.

I can appreciate a soul in a big company having the honest desire to change things, but I think its too late, for what it is now anyway.

Its kind of like the bullets coming back to the boat and apologizing.

[Old Cane]

Originally Posted by lowfreq33

That's another thing. I don't want to hear anything about list price. Don't tell me I'm getting such-and-such off the list price, because that's not what you sell it for. I want to know what you can give me off the retail price. If it's nothing, then tell me that. Don't act like anyone out there is selling at list price, because in this day and age, nobody is.

Uh, list is retail. Don't mistake a store's already discounted price for retail.

[bunnerabb]

The kid behind the counter can just have me point if he doesn't know what a string is.

Unless you point at the wrong strings. The strings that suck. The strings you don't want.

[Old Cane]

Originally Posted by bunnerabb

Unless you point at the wrong strings. The strings that suck. The strings you don't want.

Then I guess that makes me an idiot for not looking at what I'm buying.

[bunnerabb]

Originally Posted by Old Cane

Then I guess that makes me an idiot for not looking at what I'm buying.

Oh, non, non.. you see, you may want those strings.. but the GC kid will be happy to tell you they're the wrong strings.

THOSE ARE NOT THE STRINGS YOU WANT.

I have no need of a protocol droid.

I have no need of some pushy twat trying to tell me what I want when I walk into a store.

YMMV.

[lowfreq33]

Discount, my ass. If every store in town is selling it for that price, that's the retail price. I'm sorry, should I say street price? MSRP? If that's so, why does every retailer give you the list price and the sale price? List is not a real number, it's an inflated figure that exists to make you think you're getting a deal. Same thing they do at car dealerships. If anyone can walk in off the street and get the "discounted" price, that's not a discount, that's what you sell it for.

[Old Cane]

Originally Posted by bunnerabb

Oh, non, non.. you see, you may want those strings.. but the GC kid will be happy to tell you they're the wrong strings.

THOSE ARE NOT THE STRINGS YOU WANT.

I have no need of a protocol droid.

I have no need of some pushy twat trying to tell me what I want when I walk into a store.

YMMV.

Then ignore him and get what you want. If you haven't aquired that skill then maybe that's why you're not married.

[squeeks555]

Originally Posted by Old Cane

Then I guess that makes me an idiot for not looking at what I'm buying.

i dont think you get the joke, that what the GC kid will say

[bunnerabb]

You ever notice how the lone voice defending something which, empirically, the majority has declared indefensible always go straight for the ad hominem smirk and baseless condescenscion?

It's hard to tell if GC employees want to be like G.W. Bush or Bush wants to be a GC hack.

Or if they're both just aspiring to be internet preachers.

It's worth an extra 5% to me to get my gear without the motormouth f*ck selling horseshit souffle with every purchase cause he's gotta make his margin.

[bunnerabb]

Originally Posted by Old Cane

Then ignore him and get what you want. If you haven't aquired that skill then maybe that's why you're not married.

Don't f*ck with me trollboy.

You're not equipped.

[lowfreq33]

Originally Posted by lowfreq33

I can see this being the most unifying thread in Gearslutz history.

I stand corrected.

[mischultz]

Two simple steps to start:

Nation's Lowest Price. Either mean it or quit saying it. A simple monthly scan of Google Products will tell you how you're doing (and you need to be doing *better* than the competition, not merely meeting their mark). I know that anyone with a relationship in good standing can do better than what's on the tag, but again, if you're not going to make an effort, don't bother with the signage.

Likewise, on the guitar/bass side, it's long past time to cut the 'no, that doesn't include the case' nonsense. The list price of which the company is so fond is *most often* for the instrument in question with its case. Taylor, EB/MM, Martin, yada yada. Again, a simple scan of the manufacturer's sites will confirm that the number from which you're deriving my inaccurately named 'Nation's Lowest Price' is, in fact, pricing for the entire product - instrument and case.

I walked away from an exceptional deal this past week on an EB/MM Stingray simply because the case had been separated. 'That's our bone cost.' Great, glad to hear that I'm getting a strong deal, but what you paid for and what I would like to pay for is the entire product, instrument and case. It doesn't come any other way from EB/MM and it's not leaving with me any other way, either.

It comes down to the simple matter of my intelligence being continuously insulted. I'll buy from Cheney at the Marietta, Georgia store because I like him, trust him and enjoy doing business with him. Unfortunately, that comes *in spite* of the fact that it's GC.

I hate the fact that I know the company is insulting me, the company knows that they're insulting me and the company knows that I know that they know... It's just disheartening to know that an organization that could do it right/straight chooses to out-used-car the used car guys.

Michael Schultz
Marietta, Georgia

[MOFO PRO]

Originally Posted by Old Cane

Uh, list is retail. Don't mistake a store's already discounted price for retail.

Uh... well... no it's not... List is what makes you feel so good about walking out with something at retail... and almost shit your pants over a a sale... which is $500 under list, but just $50 under retail...

This one's my biggest complaint... I don't need advice... But I do like honest pricing