Part of the solution---if you shop at Guitar Center, read this

[CompEq]

Pretty huge thread. This has probably all been said before, but when I go into any music retail store, I dont expect the sales people to be super-knowledgeable about everything. I generally need basic things: cables or borad tape or connectors.

1) Know what you have in the store.

Not necessarily if you have it in stock at the time but do you generally carry it. I hate going up to the counter and saying (breaking up the conversation between two otherwise taskless employees) "Um, excuse me. Excuse me. Excuse me!!! Yes, do you have 10' 1/4" balanced to XLR male cables?" And get a blank stare.

Or "Where do you keep your board tape?" and I get a "What's that?" or "Uh, I don't think we carry that anymore" when it's right behind them.

2) If you don't know if you have it, don't lead me on a wild goose chase around the store while you look more and more like an a** and so do I for following you as you are unable to find a product. I'd rather pleasantly wait at the counter while you take a few minutes to ask someone who does know where it is and then bring it to the counter.

3) Please keep all cables in the same area!!! I find that as I go around a music store cables are sporadically everywhere and it's more by chance than organization that I find what I'm looking for. Leave the confusing layouts to the casinos.

4) Train your employees on what you sell the most, not (or maybe as well as)what you are trying to push that month. I understand that you are there to sell things to some people who don't know what they want, but there are those who do and just want to get in and get out. I'm not there to get a DAW.

5) If you don't have what I came in for... rather than bringing me something else and saying it's "just as good" or "much better than the...", I'd rather hear, "Oh, you're looking for a _____, we don't have the unit you want in stock, can I show you some other products that might/would meet your needs?" I'd probably keel over in shock if I ever heard that! Desparate is not a quality I find attractive in a salesperson, helpful and considerate are good qualities in a salesperson. Throw in knowledgeable and I may never shop anywhere else.

[chetatkinsdiet]

Originally Posted by lowfreq33

Discount, my ass. If every store in town is selling it for that price, that's the retail price. I'm sorry, should I say street price? MSRP? If that's so, why does every retailer give you the list price and the sale price? List is not a real number, it's an inflated figure that exists to make you think you're getting a deal. Same thing they do at car dealerships. If anyone can walk in off the street and get the "discounted" price, that's not a discount, that's what you sell it for.

Since I'm just starting this thread, I'm sure it's spelled out already, but just so you're all using correct terms, here you go:

Retail = MSRP. (manufacturers suggested retail pricing) No one pays this for anything....cars, houses, coffee makers or musicial equipment.

Street price. This is the typical pricing that you'll find an item. Most retailers will mirror each other on pricing their items. Whether it's all Fender guitars are marked at 30% of retail, but we can actually go down to 35% or what. It's all going to be close. This is the price that most of us pay for things.

Dealer cost. Ah, the tricky one. So, here's where the manufacturers and retailers play games. They have to make out like its all fair to all parties, but it's just not the case. Let's just say we're at NAMM this year and are meeting with company X to discuss selling their guitars at our chain of stores. They will hand me the dealer cost, which is probably going to have various levels of discount depending on how much I purchase. No shock there, the more you purchase, the better your discount should be. But, there's always going to be that advertised top level. That's where the tricky part comes in. If GC has more buying power than anyone else, then it would be unfair for them to simply be able to buy for less than say Sam Ash or Front End Audio (Hope you don't mind me using you in the hypothetical War). So, company X can advertise to all the dealers that they're all getting the same cost on the items. What is still negotiated is the back end rebates. So, I'm a buyer at GC and I know that Sam Ash is getting the same price as me. So, I tell Company X that I'll buy $$$ worth of guitars at their regular cost if they'll offer me a percentage back in rebate if I hit certain tiers. Meaning....I'm initially buying at their top level just to get the highest discount, but if I promise to double that number, they'll then cut me a check back for 1% of my overall sales for the quarter or year. So, now I can use that extra margin to go straight to the bottom line of my company, or I could use it to undercut the other guys while still making a profit. To match my selling price, they loose money.
That is the long definition of dealer cost.

Now, let me finish this thread and I'm sure I'll add some more.

m

[dasmetre]

Originally Posted by Randall

Hire me as a $300,000 a year consultant with absolute hiring and firing power to roam all the Guitar Centers and report my experiences and interactions with staff.. kind of like a hit-man, spy, shadow shopper.

I think that job title is CEO...though $300k is a bit low for that...

:)

Eli

[dasmetre]

Originally Posted by synthdogg

Eli, I appreciate what you're doing. I'm afraid you have an uphill battle ahead of you. Guitar Center has created a bit of a paradox over it's long lifespan.

To my knowledge, as GC expanded, it would place itself around other music stores and then promise to sell gear cheaper than anyone around them, whatever that would take. What that did for GC was eliminate most of the competition, but the price wars that happened also trained customers that 10% over dealer cost is an "acceptable" price, not a "great deal". People now feel ripped off if the dealer makes any money on an item. I even get some of that vibe reading posts in this thread.

Unfortunately, that doesn't leave a lot of money to adequately pay a real sales staff, and if the staff is on commission, they have to sell and sell and sell, and still end up with very little profit made at the end of the day. It's all about moving boxes, and it doesn't leave a lot of time to sit and consult with customers...just keep moving.

I've read a lot of posts about hiring more knowledgeable staff, or training your staff better, but those things cost money...and then prices may have to go up, and thenn the customer base will have something else to be upset about.

That's a tough situation to be in Eli, and I applaud you for looking for a solution. Good luck to you.

Thanks for the input-- and I agree that the task I am undertaking is pretty monumental, especially considering my sphere of influence is only my store. But I have heard a ton of great ideas in this thread (and dodged a few thrown chairs ) and am excited to continue putting them in action.

Eli

[dasmetre]

Originally Posted by Autocrat

The FV store seems to have more knowledgeable staff than the other stores I've been to recently (Cerritos, Brea) but the building is small and it's crowded. You guys could use a bigger location with more parking. It also seems like you have a huge pile of used gear everytime I come in.

Thanks for the plug!

We definitely have a restricted space to work with, and an overabundance of used or open box gear. Nothing can really be done about the space, but we are working on plans to move the used and open box stuff. I'm not going to advertise exactly what in this thread (that wouldn't really be appropriate), but I have a plan in place.

E

[ScumBum]

"you guys suck"


Its all customer service problems .

GC can be a good experience if you deal with the managers , but usually any one else will piss you off and make you not want to ever go back .

I go through phases of , I'm never shopping there again and what the hell I'll stop by for something .


START SELLING API GEAR !!!

[bdunard]

Love GC here in Nashville. I work with Artist Relations guy. This probably the difference in having a good experience and having a bad experience.

Heres the deal the Artist Relations guy doesn't know that much about gear (came from a touring manager background) but what he does do is:

1. Call Me Back
2. Get me competitive pricing
3. Get's me in and out
4. Goes the extra mile when I needed it yesterday!

I do my own research and at the end of the day I just need a broker. Same thing is when I buy a car. I don't trust someone speech that wants/needs to sell something to me...that doesn't mean I don't have to like them though!

For me he is Guitar Center because I can't tell you what anyone else looks like in the store. If he left I would follow him.

[bexarametric]

Originally Posted by MushroomKingdom

"you guys suck"


Its all customer service problems .

GC can be a good experience if you deal with the managers , but usually any one else will piss you off and make you not want to ever go back .

I go through phases of , I'm never shopping there again and what the hell I'll stop by for something .


START SELLING API GEAR !!!

We have sold API for years. We can't keep it in all the stores though. There's 200+ stores. API probably (while is a big company in this community) doesn't have enough extra inventory around to just keep all of our stores. However, select locations of Guitar Center have had them in stock regularly. And any store could order them at any time for you. So I guess if you came in and gave us money, we would sell you API. There you go. Problem solved.

That being said, we will have to see how easy it will be for GC to get API in 2008.

[barryjohns]

Quit hiring kids that look like they are musicians and hire people that know what they are talking about. Have your guys stay current with gear, they never know what they are talking about, they always have to look it up on the computer. I asked about a Mackie MCU, the guy had never heard of it. I asked about Symphony Cards, no idea. The response is we can order it. How crazy is that. We all know we can order anything we want ourselves without your help.

Take a look at the pictures of the sales guys at Sweetwater; they are older guys in ties. They have knowledge, some wisdom.

I'll tell you something that really got me this last Saturday. I've wanted a Vox AC30 for a while now, but wanted the Head. So I called up the store in Las Vegas, actually, it just moved to a new location in a premier location in Vegas a few months ago, and is well stocked. I clearly asked the guy if he had a Head In Stock, new in the box, I was very clear with him. We talked price, told him I would come in the next day and pick it up. Wife wanted to take the kids to dinner that night, so I said; I'll go pick the head up on the way. I get to the store, NO HEAD IN THE BOX NEW, 1 floor model that was covered in dust, likely a move from the previous location the store was at. Likely had 300 kids flip every switch a million times, and the tolex was ripped. I told the manager that I called prior to coming; I was told you had it new in the box, 30 minutes ago.

He didn't care. Was like sorry, looked at me like, Man, I know I've got clueless people working for me, what do you want from me, service or something. This same guy has personally sold me thousands of dollars of gear.

What is my incentive for going into any of your stores unless I need it right now? Really, why would anyone who has a credit card do that? I can sit my fat butt on my couch and order what I want online, always get a better price, and have it sitting at my door in 4 or 5 days. What's the point of your store?

The only thing I feel different about are guitars, I like to touch the guitar I want to buy. I have a Les Paul Standard, bought last year at GC. I a have a Stevie Ray Vaughn Strat, bought at GC, earlier this year. I've got a Mesa Boogie Lonestar, bought at GC earlier this year. I've got 30 grand in recording gear and other guitars and amps, none of which was bought at GC, but if it was a company worthy of my business, all would have been purchased at GC. I would much rather have a local store to do business with.

I guarantee you that I know more about gear than just about every manager you have any store in the country with maybe the exception of some sales guys at GC Pro. The vast majority of employees on the Org chart under the manager are simply clueless. Knowledgeable people can sell gear. The ability for a sales guy to give solid advice at all levels will establish relationships that will bring repeat business for DECADES.

I run an 80 Million Dollar Food and Beverage Operation in Vegas, I know what service is all about. I've built that business from 40 million to 80 million in 2.5 years.

Your business model is the one of the Worst I've ever experienced. I tell you this, I use your company as an example from time to time, when building future leaders in my operation on what not to do.

That my friend is not a good place to be for your company. You need a culture change from the Top to the Bottom. That is not going to happen without serious change in the leadership of your company. It's time move people without a vision, passion, commitment, and a deep desire to take care of every sale, from a set of strings, to a 6 grand Les Paul.

Kids of today, will be major buyers as they grow older, get real jobs, earn real money, and continue with their passion until the day they die. I've spent more money in my 40's than I did in my 20's, that I can assure you of.

[dasmetre]

Originally Posted by barryjohns

That my friend is not a good place to be for your company. You need a culture change from the Top to the Bottom. That is not going to happen without serious change in the leadership of your company. It's time move people without a vision, passion, commitment, and a deep desire to take care of every sale, from a set of strings, to a 6 grand Les Paul.

Kids of today, will be major buyers as they grow older, get real jobs, earn real money, and continue with their passion until the day they die. I've spent more money in my 40's than I did in my 20's, that I can assure you of.

You bring up a lot of good points, and I appreciate your input. I can only apologize for your bad experiences elsewhere, and if you would like I would love the opportunity to try to make it up to you. PM me if you like.

I do agree that a culture change is necessary, and this thread is my contribution to that change. Please know, though, that our leadership HAS changed- and now encourages the kinds of interactions I have started here.

Keep your suggestions coming-- and I will be happy to implement what I can.
E

[soundrage]

Originally Posted by dasmetre

You bring up a lot of good points, and I appreciate your input. I can only apologize for your bad experiences elsewhere, and if you would like I would love the opportunity to try to make it up to you. PM me if you like.

I do agree that a culture change is necessary, and this thread is my contribution to that change. Please know, though, that our leadership HAS changed- and now encourages the kinds of interactions I have started here.

Keep your suggestions coming-- and I will be happy to implement what I can.
E

I live in Salt Lake City which is not a big market for gear, but then not a real small one either. I've spent thousands of dollars online mainly because the GC a few miles from me has a crummy selection. I've seen a Manley and a Avalon here or there but I've NEVER seen even one Neve clone, ever. They pretty much only want to push Mackie mixers. The recording audio interface selection is a joke.

I'm in there the other day and found some Auralex real cheap so I grabbed some and noticed they had changed the recording room around and they placed all the racks and the monitors on the side of the room exactly where you would NEVER place monitors. Some years back there were a couple guys (late 30's or so) that knew about recording they would have argued against that move. The room acoustics are horrible. All they have done is thrown some Auralex foam up and not one single bass trap anywhere! It would be nice to be able to go in there and audition some monitors (I'm in the market to upgrade) in a properly treated room.

I could go on and on but I usually order stuff online these days. But how much money is GC losing out on older guys like me who have good careers and a little money to play with?

Even your website sucks bad in selection compared to someone like Sweewater. I mean can one even buy a 1073 type pre at GC online?

I guess guys like me are just not the target customer for GC. If you can change it great, if not then the online companies will continue to get my business.

[EmeraldAcid]

Hi. I am a current employee of guitar center here in arizona. I have no reason to hide my identity because i am leaving the store soon. I want to give you all a little insight into how guitar center treats its employees so that you can understand why your getting the horrible service.

In a nutshell: PAY and POOR MANAGEMENT.


I am currently driving 30 minutes to get to the guitarcenter where i work. I make 6.75 an hour. Thats IT.

Guitarcenter uses a commision based system called WEREWOLF (i shit you not). You get 10 percent of gross profit, and 2 percent of gross sales. They then take that number, and SUBTRACT your hourly wage from it. Whats left is your commision check. Now MOST employees work well over 40 hours a week. Now by the end of the month you will have earned around 800 - 850 $$ in hourly pay (4 weeks worth of work, 800 dollars...sound good?), they SUBTRACT THAT number from the commision you would be making, which cuts you commision to guess what. ZERO. There are usually 2 or 3 people who have been employed at GC for anywhere from 7 to 15 years at the store who will pull in 35 to 40,000 a year. The rest of us make 6.75 an hour. This is no exaggeration. I work in the pro audio department with 7 other people, were all close friends and we all get to see each others paychecks. Everyone is getting about 480$ for 2 weeks of work totaling around 85 - 90 hours.

every morning we have to listen to a sales PEP talk from our incapable store manager, when he knows damn well we could sell sell sell until our eyes turn blue and still not see a dime for it. Furthermore, a new parent company called has purchased guitar center and will be switching it to RETAIL (IE, everything is price locked) in the next couple months. At which point we will be making HOURLY pay with no commision. The rumor is that they plan to pay the employees 8 dollars an hour.


Now take that, combined with guitar center notoriously horrible management. And you understand why the employees are acting like rabid sales dogs. Were not making ANY money, and we have to put up with disrespectful management. I could go on and on about details of guitar center management that would make you cringe, but the bottom line is We would make MORE money working at starbucks or mcdonalds. Which is why im leaving. Its a shame though, ive spent the last 5 months of my life working overtime, making friendships and passing all the guitar center certifications only to realize this company could care less for its employees.

New people are cycled in and out almost every month...hugh turn over rate = sales floor filled with new people that usually have no knowledge.

[EmeraldAcid]

And to the threadstarter, i think its great that you are out here asking questions and trying to better your store. Im sure you treat your employees a lot better and i hope things work out for you but ultimately you have to PAY to keep the good employees around.

[vernier]

Dasmetre, Fountain Valley GC was better when Gil was there ...you need to get him back ..I enjoyed the many years of dealing with him ..he is one cool cat!

[EmeraldAcid]

AND FOR THE RECORD :), guitar center DOES have SOME employees like myself who care about our customers. If i know something doesint work right i wont sell it to you just to make the sale. The majority of customers who talk to me DONT buy anything, they come in and i spend anywhere from 30 minutes to over an hour talking to them, explaining how things work and what they need because i just enjoy talking about pro audio in general. But again, im not compensated fairly for my work. I have no choice but to leave if im going to pay my bills.

sorry if i seem like im venting!! hopefully some of you found this interesting

[Resonant Alien]

My 2c. GC is the WalMart of the audio industry (maybe a little better - maybe Target), in more ways than one. First, the business model seems to be WalMart all the way - cull tremendous buying power from major manufacturers so you can get stuff cheaper than anyone else, then move a huge box store into a new town right across the street from the local guy who has been in business for 30 years. Because of your buying power, you can sell cheaper than the local guy, and because you are a huge conglomerate, you can even operate at a loss for several months if that's what it takes to finally drive the local guy out of business. At the same time, because of your buying power, you can strike deals with manufacturers, forcing them to sell through GC exclusively.....like how I can't even buy a Paul Reed Smith or a Gibson from my local guy anymore because GC has exclusive deals with a restricted, no compete sales radius.

At the same time, as a couple of people already mentioned, the fact that you are selling at such low prices means you can't really afford to hire a full staff of really knowledgeable people, so you end up with what I call the "Circuit City Syndrome"....you know, you walk into Circuit City, see a TV or 5.1 system you want, ask the sales guy, "what can you tell me about this", and he walks over to the placard display and proceeds to read the bullet items from it - you know, the ones I could have read myself.

Look, I totally respect the original poster - I feel he is genuinely trying to do some good here. But the horse has left the barn. It's like asking how you would go about turning WalMart into an exclusive boutique. It a'int gonna happen. WalMart is what WalMart is - I don't go into WalMart expecting to talk to a sales person and get some great advice about what I should buy. I do my research, go to WalMart to get a good price and same day "delivery", and that's that. Same with GC - I don't go there to get advice on which $2000 compressor I should buy. I go there to buy strings and guitar picks.

By the same token, there is no point in complaining about GC either. It is what it is, just like WalMart is what it is. Go there to buy strings or don't go there at all, but set your expectations correctly. If you want good advice before you make a multi-thousand-dollar purchase, check out Gearslutz, or any other number of internet resources or magazines first and then go buy it where you get the best service, cheapest price, or both.

I think one of the other GC employees who posted hit it right on the head - the audio professional is NOT their target market, and never will be. Just like WalMart does not cater to Audiophiles or people looking to buy $180 7 for Mankind blue jeans. They serve a market and that's that.

My biggest complaint about GC is what they are doing to the local guys, who really do know what they are talking about, who really do love selling gear, and who really need to maintain decent pricing schemes and manufacturer relationships to stay in business....they are really hurting those guys, some of whom are good friends of mine.....just like WalMart, Walgreens and CVS have killed the local Pharmacies....

[bexarametric]

Hey Emerald

I'm sorry you have had a bad experience working at your Guitar Center location. I think it's a generalization to assume that ALL the store managers are bad. Have you thought about contacting your District Manager to inform him of your dissatisfaction with your management and environment?

I know nothing of your situation (other than what you have shared so far) so I will not pass judgement about you. The situation in your store is unfortunate. When I have guys that I manage complain that they're not making enough money, I blame myself. It's my job to train them to write enough business to make the money that they need.

We have the same current commission system at my store that you have at your store. We have many sales associates that are doing well (not all). I credit that to our management. If our employees aren't making money, that means that we aren't selling. If we aren't selling then our company is losing money. From management down to the new sales guy, our pay is based on performance. We want everyone to do well. Our pay is determined by region, so contacting your Regional Manager is a great way to express your feelings about the pay system.

The majority of guys that complain about not making money (at my store) tend to be unmotivated. They tend to be flakes. Many of them aren't responsible and don't have their spending habits or life in order. I'm not suggesting that you are unmotivated or that you are a flake. In fact, based on the fact that you claim that you like to positively interact and often educate your customers, you seem like a valuable employee. You would probably fit in with my crew. Maybe your management really is that bad. Once again, I know nothing of your life or work situation. All I can do is listen to what you're saying, reflect on how things work in my store, then relate the situations to how they work in my store.

I've seen guys come in that know nothing about the gear, but everything about selling and customer service do VERY well and have VERY happy customers. I have also seen guys that know everything about the gear but nothing about selling or customer service. They leave really quickly. Commissioned sales is not for everyone (no matter how much knowledge you have about the products). Then there are the most prosperous salesman of them all. The guys that know the gear and the customer. They are the ones that can make a career out of it.

I'm sorry your stay at Guitar Center wasn't prosperous. It's unfortunate that your environment was not one that allowed you be successful. I do wish you the best of luck in the future.

For the record I would like to say that I'm satisfied with the management and crew at my store (but we're not perfect).

[Kyle S]

i got a tip...

stop opening up every ****ing box in the store for anyone that wants to see. and stop reshelving returned items without even checking the box. i have shopped at gc for the last time and that is final (except for strings). me and my girlfriend are absolutley pissed.

more on this later when i feel like reliving this "experience."

[EmeraldAcid]

I appreciate the kind words bexa. My first post may have been a little to sharp but I, like many of the customers posting here in this forum am just frustrated with my experience at this store. I have thought about contacting the district manager here in arizona, but having worked with other employees who have been with GC over 10 years ive heard a lot of bad things about the guy and i wonder if i would be wasting my time in contacting him. The one thing ive noticed about my store and the tempe store is that the more you talk to management the more you realize they arent listening to you and are just giving you the "canned" response.

Would there be someone else other than the district sales manager i could contact?

[Jake Dempsey]

My only purchase at GC was a very pleasant one. Fairfax VA store. I was in DC for a gig and went in to buy a UA 610 and an M Audio controller. The guy (I think his name was Dave) didn't hassle me, knew his gear and gave me a great deal. I got very good, pro service. I would go back.

[dasmetre]

Originally Posted by EmeraldAcid

Would there be someone else other than the district sales manager i could contact?

Yes.

Me.

My desire to make GC better does not stop with customers--you need to be just as happy with us (if not happier) than our customers are in order for us to be successful.

I would point out that rumors become rumors because people repeat them without confirming them, as you have done in your first post. But I'd also point out that I understand the feeling you're getting, and hear the same from my guys. So I'll tell you the same thing I tell them: Relax. Yes, we've been bought out, and no- you won't be wearing a rubber guitar suit on the corner trying to bring in business. Any change coming will be for the improvement of our business in all areas. We are improving training and retention chainwide through various programs. We are investing more in our current talent in order to improve our customer experience. I started this thread with those improvements in mind, knowing full well some would throw poison. And some have.

But most of all, we are looking positively toward the future, and so should you. Start by communicating with your Store Manager. If that doesn't work, try the District Manager. don't let anyone tell it won't work--try for yourself. If that doesn't work, contact HR. I've met the western region HR manager several times, and he does his job very well--and is a great guy.

Eli

[soundrage]

Originally Posted by EmeraldAcid

The rumor is that they plan to pay the employees 8 dollars an hour.

That pretty much sums it up that GC is basically another Walmart. That piss poor wage might work for an 18 yr old kid but not much more. But how can a brick/mortar company afford to pay much more and be competitive with pricing?

No career incentive here. Go to school kids and get yourself a real job.

[dasmetre]

Originally Posted by soundrage

That pretty much sums it up that GC is basically another Walmart. That piss poor wage might work for an 18 yr old kid but not much more. But how can a brick/mortar company afford to pay much more and be competitive with pricing?

No career incentive here. Go to school kids and get yourself a real job.

I'd again like to point out this pay change information is NOT TRUE.

I'm not sure where Emerald got this erroneous information, but rest assured that it is inaccurate.

I've been great feedback on the things that are actually happening in our stores, and I appreciate it. Keep those suggestions coming.

Eli

[PhilR]

I don't work in a music store, but I do have the dubious honour of being a sales assistant in a major DIY/Trade goods supply chain. These are a few rules I personally try to abide by (and really, really wish my colleagues would too!!) that would work in a GC scenario. Some will have been mentioned already.

• Product Knowledge
  
  Now obviously you can't expect anyone to have a catalogue of detailed information stored in their heads constantly. But it behooves anyone working in a retail environment to have some rudimentary knowledge of the stock range. Try to hire people for specific areas of knowledge, but rotate the workforce to ensure that each person from each department can be buddied up with someone in another in order to learn the basics of what they're selling. Even if it's just enough to reduce the "blank stare" factor should someone call in sick.
  
  Teach everyone the values of common sense enquiries such as "what do you use that for?" and "What would that look like?". I'm not a plumber, nor am I an electrician and I've had many customers that completly fail to understand this when slinging random monosyllabic questions at me, but I learned to pump them for information so I would have at least have rough idea of what to look for.
  
  
• Inventory
  
  Make sure you undertake regular stock checks and ensure your store database is as accurate as possible. Nothing is more frustrating to be told somthing is in stock, waiting 10 minutes, then being told it couldn't be found after all. We all know that stuff tends to just "go missing" in places like GC. Keep your staff on a leash and make sure nothing slips out under the back door.
  
  
• Stock Management
  
  Keep your storage area's tidy and structured in order to make the above point more straightforward. Ensure deliveries are correctly catalogued, counted and stored. Do not sell items as "mint condition" when they are returns or blatantly ex-display.