Part of the solution---if you shop at Guitar Center, read this - Page 7

jigsawlogic · 19th December 2007, 09:29 AM

I'm glad that you are taking the time to canvas your market base.

My main encouragement for you would be this: do not, under any circumstance, allow any of your employees to pretend to know more than they do. If they recommend product A over product X, then they MUST have experience with BOTH, and be able to back it up in conversation with the customer...especially the customer who is intimately familiar with both pieces of gear.

I think that the best way to balance profit with favorable impression is as follows: market to age range, with each range having a corresponding set of cohorts.

For instance, assume that the 40-year old guy knows his shit. Unless he is noticeably off-balance, and looks at his hands in concentration to see when they will make trails again.

Look to the 14-year old kid as an idiot that you can say anything to. You can sell him anything within his parents' limits. But measure that against his future potential to learn the use of firearms, coupled with his innate ability to harbor a grudge.

You see? It's all about people skills.

Much luck.

The dman · 19th December 2007, 12:07 PM

Quote:

Another note about the "door guy". If he prevents people from stealing stuff, our prices stay lower. Shrink = price increase.

I think this started after an incident 20 some years ago that happened at the old Chicago Milwaukee Av store. Some guy brought in a case and walked out with a 57 strat. They started their "door policy" right after that.

TheArchitect · 19th December 2007, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bexarametric

It's policy for a commissioned sales person to ask "why". Why? Because most of the people who walk into our stores don't know exactly what they want. As a commissioned salesman, I ask a lot of "why" questions just to make sure they are buying the right item. If I don't ask why, then I end up selling them the wrong item. The end result of that is wasted time for me and the customer and I never got commission in the first place. I hate returns, so I ask a lot of "why" questions to minimize returns. If I notice that the customer has sufficient knowledge about the item in question then I refrain from asking why because they obviously already know. Perhaps you're not conveying to your salesman that you know a lot about the gear you buy. Most of out customers don't.

That "policy" hurts you more than it helps you. Asking "Why do you need that" always comes across as snotty and condescending. Especially when its followed with "that sucks, this is what you should be using" You only have to worry about returns if you sell it in the first place. Treating me like a child will pretty much guarantee you won't be selling anything

zerocrossing · 19th December 2007, 03:40 PM

I have an idea that has nothing to do with price or salesman's knowledge/attitude. Sound. There have been more times than I can remember that my local GC (SF Bay area) was a carcophany of "shredding" and wankery. I say try setting the store up like Apple's Genius bar. Shredding by appointment only. Come in, sign in for an audition room and wait your turn. Don't want to wait? Buy it and try it. GC's strength is their return policy. Lean on that. Trying it in a store is next to worthless anyway. How it behaves in your studio/stage is what counts anyway. When I walk in to a GC I should hear the lilting dudespeake of your staff and the gentle tone's of a Soundgarden CD in the back ground (way background and only near the register)

Also, teach your salespeople this phrase: "I have no idea, let me see if I can find that out." There is nothing worse than a salesperson afraid to seem stupid being stupid by spouting gibberish when they can't answer your question. Of course no underpaid salesperson is going to know everything about all the products they sell. I feel so happy when I get honesty from a salesperson and genuine help. Einstein said, "Never memorize something you can look up." (I paraphrase)

ddageek · 19th December 2007, 04:17 PM

Ok having built one of your cometitors retail division I have to say this again
ASKING WHY IS IMPORTANT!!! 60% of the customers don't know what they need or have gotten worse advice then they would get from the sales dude!!! Returns cost the company money and I don't know how many clients I save from saying we sucked by qualifying what they acutally Needed!

Example Manager of a high profile producers studio comes in ( I have known him since I was 10 for a DAT cleaning tap( Yeah this was that long ago) I ask him why he wants it?

Well all our Machines are dirty and you Know!"

"hey those things eat Heads way t abrasive have somebody open the machines and use the old cotton swab!"

"Look I aint got the time, you have no Idea!"

"ok hears your cleaner but I wouldn't"

Two weeks latter He shows up in service (hideing from me with DAT machines all in need of new heads then walks over and buys 2 B stock SV3700s!! less cost for him more profit for me than new ones!

The true pros never questioned why I asked why!

because!

1 they respected my opinion and new I would only suggest what I thought might work better for them U was the one who got payed for knowing what did what and what was in that wharehouse not them!
2 I got to learn what others where using and because I was awre of what their projects where I Had another reference of what sounded good on what!

Now If someone wants a royer I wouldn't try to talk him into chinese ribbon Unless I was pretty sure it wasn't going to work and the guy just had to have a ribbon (lwss cash wasted!

But why can be a sign of respect! Not an insult If your skin is that thin I hope you never need to read a review of your work!

dwall · 19th December 2007, 05:44 PM

I like the guitar center in Chicago. They've been getting more boutique guitar pedals which I can get at a nice price (never any hassles there). Sometimes someone tries to sell me something I don't need or want, but rarely.

I would like to see more high end pre's, comp's, and other recording gear, including mic's. No store in Chicago stocks this stuff, so they'd be the only place in town to try such things out (aside from going into a studio, of course). It's a stretch, but I also wish there were a way to take demo mic's home to try.

One thing I find funny is that pretty much anything I buy, the sales person will be like "I have one of those myself". Or, even better, "I have a friend who uses one of those." I'm sure they or someone they know does own a Boss delay pedal. Not that I don't believe that they own and like and are excited about the product. I'd do the same if I worked there: "you're getting the used MXR distortion + from the 80's? Aesome! They do sound different than the new ones. I use both for different applications, but usually go with my old one." (I don't feel I have enough experience with enough gear to work there, though.)

It would be interesting for some of the more knowledgable GC staffers to create their own thread of stupid sh!t customers have come in there and said. I have to imagine that you spend most of your time with people who have literally no clue as to the difference between a guitar and a bass, but they know their kid wants one. And what kind of strings does it take? Deal with that day in and day out, and maybe we'd all get a little "recommendation happy".

theremin · 19th December 2007, 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joelpatterson

Stop the drug testing (or whatever you do) to weed out anyone with any common sense!

LOL

probably a good idea in this case :P

S!

timmcallister · 19th December 2007, 06:38 PM

Given the correct salesperson, I actually like GC.

Frankly, my expectation is to walk in and get things significantly below MAP. I'm happy and I assume GC and the salesperson are making enough off me (otherwise, they wouldn't give me these prices).

It's finding the right saleperson and establishing a relationship with them that's key. I've had great luck with a few at a local store here, and I like that with these two guys, I don't even have to ask for the deeper discounts. They know I expect them and there is no haggling.

I was there last week and got a vox tonelab le for $355 (12% below MAP) an alphatrack for $169 (15% below MAP). and a Axiom 61 for $249 (18% below).

I actually bought a few vintage fender amps there as well. They were marked way too high, but I was allowed to pull the chassis and look over the guts (both were VERY clean with no mods) and the salesperson was willing to sell for ebay prices. I find that an acceptable deal, I KNOW the amp is clean, and thats far easier then shopping ebay for these kind of things.

If I am buying higher end items and want service, I use Mercenary.

I DO NOT go to GC for advice, or to make friends. I go there for low prices. The problem is weeding through the typical salesperson to find the ones who will do this.

To that end, I always wanted a music store who understood this, and we could cut through the "list price on this is..." BS. Keep notes on customers regarding how they expect pricing, and go to that pricing immediately. This eliminates my need to haggle with unknown salespeople, and get my shopping done quickly.

With the right expectations, and the right salesperson, I think GC is great.

dwall · 19th December 2007, 07:10 PM

Boy, a lot of people here seem to rate themselves as a higher form of life than that of the average GC employee.

GC employees are human beings, most of whom like to play music and are at least of average intelligence and ability (just like most of the people on these boards...or is everyone here brilliant?). Many of them are young, and have taken a low-paying job to be around the kind of things they like to be around (and to get the discount) instead of working at some other sh!t job while going to school or trying to get their band off the ground.

I'm sure it can be intimidating at times, and they end up goofing it. Life should be intimidating at that age, though. It's the only way to learn. Also, it's not their fault that it's a corporate environment that makes its huge money by encouraging teenagers and other beginners to buy begginer's gear. Employees who decide they don't like the environment quit (we all know they have a high turnover), and others learn how to play the system (my favorites!). Others just end up stuck there because their other plans didn't pan out. It happens to all kinds of intelligent and decent people. I don't go to GC to make friends, but if I made a friend there, I wouldn't be ashamed of it. Jeez.

Jim Kerr · 19th December 2007, 09:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dwall

Boy, a lot of people here seem to rate themselves as a higher form of life than that of the average GC employee.

GC employees are human beings, most of whom like to play music and are at least of average intelligence and ability (just like most of the people on these boards...or is everyone here brilliant?). Many of them are young, and have taken a low-paying job to be around the kind of things they like to be around (and to get the discount) instead of working at some other sh!t job while going to school or trying to get their band off the ground.

I'm sure it can be intimidating at times, and they end up goofing it. Life should be intimidating at that age, though. It's the only way to learn. Also, it's not their fault that it's a corporate environment that makes its huge money by encouraging teenagers and other beginners to buy begginer's gear. Employees who decide they don't like the environment quit (we all know they have a high turnover), and others learn how to play the system (my favorites!). Others just end up stuck there because their other plans didn't pan out. It happens to all kinds of intelligent and decent people. I don't go to GC to make friends, but if I made a friend there, I wouldn't be ashamed of it. Jeez.

Well said.
The "WHY" thing is misundertood. I think what people are saying is be helpful but be respectful.

Sometimes its like "yeah I'm browsing, I'm good" hence I don't want to explain that I am experienced and have mixed and worked with numerious platnum artist. Litteraly just browsing. Then comes the "well, what do you do, what are you looking for?" ect. and to be pollite I'll say "Ribbon mics, high end, Beyer m160's, Royer, just looking" Then "WHY?" "Dude, Sterling are what you want, then with the money left over you can buy a gold kazoo!" you know.....

Again though like the post above its not a big deal, its a buisness and a lot of kids, in fact good for them. You asked for answers and here they are.

To the "WHY" guy, of course its good to ask why, we are talking about something else and you not understanding.

dwall · 19th December 2007, 09:29 PM

Regarding the "Why" question, I have been a little put off by that myself, almost like I felt I was being tested or something. But now I understand better that it's to make sure people don't buy an xlr cable to plug their guitar into the tv set. When it doesn't work, they'll blame the GC staff.

wanderlust8 · 19th December 2007, 10:32 PM

what a crazy thread...

I live in the LA area, and have bought several items from the Fountain Valley GC over the years. However, of the stores in my vincinity, it is the last on my list to peruse. I would rather be at the GC on Sunset or Sherman Oaks. Why? The employees. I'm not "hounded" when I walk in the door, and I'm not left to die. They don't often ask me, "Why?" - which always offends me straight away. Can't you have your employees ask in a different way?

Here are my suggestions:

1. Ensure your inventory works! - I've left several times from the FV location because NONE of the monitors were hooked up (The very last time I went in, only a couple were patched into the Mackie Big Knob)... and some of your keys/synths were not hooked up to any monitors.
- My first experience with the FV store ages ago, i bought an open boxed- Digi001. with no manuals and most importantly... No Code! It took me over a week from your store to get a valid number to get my product working.

2. Be sure to sell new stuff NEW (sealed)!
- 50% of the items I've bought at the FV store came out from the back re-taped. I am insured everything is perfect, then I get home and it's not. Once it was an Event monitor with crumpled edges, the other also on Blue Sky monitors! I'm dropping a grand each time dying to get home to play.. only to turn right back around.

3. Train your employees to NOT treat every customer the SAME. We are all not the same... we were all beginners at once too, and some of us are not beginners any more.
- Also, it should be standard that I get the sales person's name. If they are asking if I need help, they should say, "I'm Johnny, and "guitars" is my department. Let me know if I can help you".
- I'd rather not wander around, trying to find someone else to help me, when I can say, 'where's Johnny in guitars"?

so... in the last 6 months.. I've only bought some strings, and a strap from your FV store, only because it was close by and I got it that instant. Otherwise, my major purchases have moved elsewhere... say 50%online, and 50% from other GC's and local retailers in LA.

Good luck and appreciate what you're doing. I'd be happy to see some good changes in the FV GC.

NYMo · 19th December 2007, 11:21 PM

Hi there,

I used to work for 15 years in Musical Inst and manage Australias largest music stores which was a GC equivalent called Brashs in the 80's and 90's. We had a branch in every main city.

I have read this whole thread, and although things at GC are obviously a bit different, a lot of what happens in a MI store is the same the world over.

1 We were told to approach every customer and make friendly conversation.
(hey dude...nice day outside etc etc) If they go in the shop and don't get served, that is another possible sale lost.

2 *Qualify* customers, by asking questions, so they can be directed to only one or two products and therefore have a better chance of selling it.

3 Try and *switch sell* a customer to either...
(a) a product that has to be moved
(b)a product that represents more commission for the sales person
(c)a product where the manufacturer has given an incentive(free trip,TV etc)
(d)a product where the company gets a 5% extra kickback if they do X amount over a say 3 month period.
Obviously the Presonus thing is related to the above.

4 There are two kinds of staff...
(a) Ones that think its a glamorous life and soon learn the hard reality that it is a very demanding job
"hey dude..we'll just sit around and play guitar all day"
they last only a few months

(b)Those that understand and can either work through or manipulate the company politics....those are the survivors.
I left the business in '94...one of my friends in still in it and we worked together for 7 years ! Thats 20 years he's been doing it...but he has everything sussed !

5 Management set budgets and targets for every employee and the ones that don't make it are usually fired. Thats why you see a high turnover of staff.
One may be a great musician or have great technical knowledge, but that doesn't make them a great salesman.
In fact a guy who had been with our company for 28 years and didn't even play an instrument was consistently the countries number one sales person in MI ! (empathy)

6 Margins

A company would usually buy at say retail less 30% less 15% with a kickback of say 5% to 10% on invoice paid in a month to the wholesaler.
A blowout product may only have between 20-30% in it.

If you sell at a discount of 20%-25% off retail there is not a lot of profit left.
Once you take out all the expenses (wages being the largest) a company usually made about 3% NET profit to sales. (around 30% Gross Profit on sales)
ie to make $3 NET profit they had to sell $100 worth of retail product
$1,000,000 =$30,000

How to increase net profit ? Cut wages...thats most probably why GC staff are paid not much.

7 Commissions

Our company paid reasonable wages and kept the commission scheme healthy.
Commission is THE only incentive to
(a) encourage the salesperson to earn a reasonable wage
(b) offer *spiffs* or cash incentives on certain products ie "if you sell this strat today , not only will you get your normal commission but we will pay you a spiff of $20"

The more comission a staff member gets , the more the company turns over

8 Customers (think of the salespeople !)

(a) Imagine working in the same store for 10 years and the same *tyre kicking * customers come in virtually every day with no intention of ever buying anything, but want to try all the Les Pauls.. listening to bratz try to play Stairay to Heaven, Enter Sandman, Smoke on the water etc etc (or whatever is current now) drummers that can't play in time, people that just wanna hang out on a cold day !
We put up with a lot of shit as well, so we need to weed out the serious customers from the dead heads (no offense Jerry!) and that takes a lot of questions.

9 The guy at the door..

If you knew what i've seen customers do..

Just grab a $3000 guitar off the wall and run with it out the front door with the security giving chase (fat chance!)
a lady fill her pram up with saxophones and casually walk out
people shoplifting stuff all the time etc etc
people deliberately damaging guitars
why do you think those Boss pedals are in glass case ?? we used to lose 10 a week !
Peolple that wanted to try them out, salesperson goes to another customer, turns around other guy gone..so is the pedal !

If you knew what i've seen staff do....

arrange for their pal to come in on a Sunday when there is hardly any staff and give them a $2000 effect unit which isn't noticed for a couple of weeks

duplicate actual sales paperwork and take two of the same item..ie one to the original customer...one to a false customer (with the same cash register docket imprint !)

take home strings, picks , guitar mags, slides, midi interfaces, mics etc etc anything that would fit in their bag

the *loan book* was rife... one of our managers loaned a $100,000 Steinway to a Mercedes dealership owner for a new Mercedes *on loan* !!!

Employing a door goon sorted all this out.."sorry for the inconvenience but you Don't know our staff !!!"

I'll stop here

As usual there are two sides to every story.. hopefully I've given you a small insight onto the other side !

Sugggestions for Eli.

1 Get your staff badges (if you haven't done that already) Not just name badges but what the salesperson specialises in...ie Joe Bloggs Guitar Expert.
Reward your top achieving sales staff (from your top achievers club..you do have one right??) with a special badge. Mine used to say Master Consultant. People would think "whats that shit mean?* but when i told them I was highly qualified in Hi Tech, i usually got that hi tech sale.(this was before the recording boom)

2 You personally can't change a big company (i know!) but it starts in your own store and your own staff , one by one.
You are obviously are trying to do the right thing. If your staff are good, your net profits will go up (cause you'll have more people coming in) your GP will rise and head office will be saying *Eli must be doing something right down at that store* then at a mangers conference that will come up and then maybe you will be able to change something.

Thanx for letting me express my dimes worth .

Cheers
N
Y
M
O

Brad McGowan · 20th December 2007, 12:27 AM

My suggestion would be to hire, train, and retain more knowledgeable and skilled people, especially in pro audio. I think half the time I find myself in the pro audio section of the store I end up providing more help and knowledge to other customers than the sales staff does. I also often overhear conversations between sales people and customers where the salesperson is providing misinformation and poor guidance to address the customer's needs. That's usually where I feel obligated to step in and say something. Hire professionals and not just kids that want employee discounts on Akai MPC's and Neumann mics. Make getting a job in the pro audio department much more difficult and I’m sure you’ll eventually attract more skilled people. I think knowledge of acoustics, familiarity with various software and hardware, and experience working in a real studio (non-bedroom) should be mandatory requirements. I understand that not everyone can know everything, but it makes sense to know something. It’s really a frustrating shopping experience when I approach a salesperson and say “Hi, I was curious about the BLUE Dragonfly mic…do you have any experience with it on drum overheads”, and he either replies “Dude, it’s totally killer, it picks up everything in front of it”, or “Nope I’ve never heard it”.

Here’s a great suggestion actually: Hire a bunch of well-respected Gearslutz to train the pro audio sales staff.

Thanks for listening.

Brad

dwall · 20th December 2007, 12:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NYMo

Hi there,

I used to work for 15 years in Musical Inst and manage Australias largest music stores which was a GC equivalent called Brashs in the 80's and 90's. We had a branch in every main city.

I have read this whole thread, and although things at GC are obviously a bit different, a lot of what happens in a MI store is the same the world over.

1 We were told to approach every customer and make friendly conversation.
(hey dude...nice day outside etc etc) If they go in the shop and don't get served, that is another possible sale lost.

2 *Qualify* customers, by asking questions, so they can be directed to only one or two products and therefore have a better chance of selling it.

3 Try and *switch sell* a customer to either...
(a) a product that has to be moved
(b)a product that represents more commission for the sales person
(c)a product where the manufacturer has given an incentive(free trip,TV etc)
(d)a product where the company gets a 5% extra kickback if they do X amount over a say 3 month period.
Obviously the Presonus thing is related to the above.

4 There are two kinds of staff...
(a) Ones that think its a glamorous life and soon learn the hard reality that it is a very demanding job
"hey dude..we'll just sit around and play guitar all day"
they last only a few months

(b)Those that understand and can either work through or manipulate the company politics....those are the survivors.
I left the business in '94...one of my friends in still in it and we worked together for 7 years ! Thats 20 years he's been doing it...but he has everything sussed !

5 Management set budgets and targets for every employee and the ones that don't make it are usually fired. Thats why you see a high turnover of staff.
One may be a great musician or have great technical knowledge, but that doesn't make them a great salesman.
In fact a guy who had been with our company for 28 years and didn't even play an instrument was consistently the countries number one sales person in MI ! (empathy)

6 Margins

A company would usually buy at say retail less 30% less 15% with a kickback of say 5% to 10% on invoice paid in a month to the wholesaler.
A blowout product may only have between 20-30% in it.

If you sell at a discount of 20%-25% off retail there is not a lot of profit left.
Once you take out all the expenses (wages being the largest) a company usually made about 3% NET profit to sales. (around 30% Gross Profit on sales)
ie to make $3 NET profit they had to sell $100 worth of retail product
$1,000,000 =$30,000

How to increase net profit ? Cut wages...thats most probably why GC staff are paid not much.

7 Commissions

Our company paid reasonable wages and kept the commission scheme healthy.
Commission is THE only incentive to
(a) encourage the salesperson to earn a reasonable wage
(b) offer *spiffs* or cash incentives on certain products ie "if you sell this strat today , not only will you get your normal commission but we will pay you a spiff of $20"

The more comission a staff member gets , the more the company turns over

8 Customers (think of the salespeople !)

(a) Imagine working in the same store for 10 years and the same *tyre kicking * customers come in virtually every day with no intention of ever buying anything, but want to try all the Les Pauls.. listening to bratz try to play Stairay to Heaven, Enter Sandman, Smoke on the water etc etc (or whatever is current now) drummers that can't play in time, people that just wanna hang out on a cold day !
We put up with a lot of shit as well, so we need to weed out the serious customers from the dead heads (no offense Jerry!) and that takes a lot of questions.

9 The guy at the door..

If you knew what i've seen customers do..

Just grab a $3000 guitar off the wall and run with it out the front door with the security giving chase (fat chance!)
a lady fill her pram up with saxophones and casually walk out
people shoplifting stuff all the time etc etc
people deliberately damaging guitars
why do you think those Boss pedals are in glass case ?? we used to lose 10 a week !
Peolple that wanted to try them out, salesperson goes to another customer, turns around other guy gone..so is the pedal !

If you knew what i've seen staff do....

arrange for their pal to come in on a Sunday when there is hardly any staff and give them a $2000 effect unit which isn't noticed for a couple of weeks

duplicate actual sales paperwork and take two of the same item..ie one to the original customer...one to a false customer (with the same cash register docket imprint !)

take home strings, picks , guitar mags, slides, midi interfaces, mics etc etc anything that would fit in their bag

the *loan book* was rife... one of our managers loaned a $100,000 Steinway to a Mercedes dealership owner for a new Mercedes *on loan* !!!

Employing a door goon sorted all this out.."sorry for the inconvenience but you Don't know our staff !!!"

I'll stop here

As usual there are two sides to every story.. hopefully I've given you a small insight onto the other side !

Sugggestions for Eli.

1 Get your staff badges (if you haven't done that already) Not just name badges but what the salesperson specialises in...ie Joe Bloggs Guitar Expert.
Reward your top achieving sales staff (from your top achievers club..you do have one right??) with a special badge. Mine used to say Master Consultant. People would think "whats that shit mean?* but when i told them I was highly qualified in Hi Tech, i usually got that hi tech sale.(this was before the recording boom)

2 You personally can't change a big company (i know!) but it starts in your own store and your own staff , one by one.
You are obviously are trying to do the right thing. If your staff are good, your net profits will go up (cause you'll have more people coming in) your GP will rise and head office will be saying *Eli must be doing something right down at that store* then at a mangers conference that will come up and then maybe you will be able to change something.

Thanx for letting me express my dimes worth .

Cheers
N
Y
M
O

Interesting, thanks for sharing.

brokemusician3 · 20th December 2007, 02:28 AM

Simple
1. Pay sales people more and hire more knowledgeable people.
2. Bring back liberal take back policy, I'm afraid to purchase things at G.C because they stick you with a restocking fee if you don't like something.
3. Make sure there isn't too long of a wait to get help.
4. Make your pro audio room accessible so people can hear the gear.
5. Have a mic listening room like Mars music used to have.

dasmetre · 20th December 2007, 06:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wanderlust8

what a crazy thread...

I live in the LA area, and have bought several items from the Fountain Valley GC over the years. However, of the stores in my vincinity, it is the last on my list to peruse. I would rather be at the GC on Sunset or Sherman Oaks. Why? The employees. I'm not "hounded" when I walk in the door, and I'm not left to die. They don't often ask me, "Why?" - which always offends me straight away. Can't you have your employees ask in a different way?

Here are my suggestions:

1. Ensure your inventory works! - I've left several times from the FV location because NONE of the monitors were hooked up (The very last time I went in, only a couple were patched into the Mackie Big Knob)... and some of your keys/synths were not hooked up to any monitors.
- My first experience with the FV store ages ago, i bought an open boxed- Digi001. with no manuals and most importantly... No Code! It took me over a week from your store to get a valid number to get my product working.

2. Be sure to sell new stuff NEW (sealed)!
- 50% of the items I've bought at the FV store came out from the back re-taped. I am insured everything is perfect, then I get home and it's not. Once it was an Event monitor with crumpled edges, the other also on Blue Sky monitors! I'm dropping a grand each time dying to get home to play.. only to turn right back around.

3. Train your employees to NOT treat every customer the SAME. We are all not the same... we were all beginners at once too, and some of us are not beginners any more.
- Also, it should be standard that I get the sales person's name. If they are asking if I need help, they should say, "I'm Johnny, and "guitars" is my department. Let me know if I can help you".
- I'd rather not wander around, trying to find someone else to help me, when I can say, 'where's Johnny in guitars"?

so... in the last 6 months.. I've only bought some strings, and a strap from your FV store, only because it was close by and I got it that instant. Otherwise, my major purchases have moved elsewhere... say 50%online, and 50% from other GC's and local retailers in LA.

Good luck and appreciate what you're doing. I'd be happy to see some good changes in the FV GC.

The thread is definitely interesting--and I had one of my long term customers (from when I worked at our Sherman Oaks store, funny you should mention that) give me some similar feedback today.. He buys once a year, but buys big time, so I only get to see him each December. I have definitely got a hefty undertaking on my hands, but I am happy to implement everything I can from these threads. Especially those suggestions from local gearslutz.
Eli

screamingcatfish · 20th December 2007, 07:29 AM

sellin B stock as A stock is a common occurrence..........scratched up,refixed,......especially mail order......

Anahamkarah · 20th December 2007, 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DCMIX

Ditch the computer system you guys use.

Holy Cow. Everytime i buy something, my sales guy pecks at the keyboard for the better part of an hour.

I'm convinced he's just playing Defender or Joust.

And if you got a return............forget about it.......they are gonna peck on the keyboard for a month...MINIMUM.

D

NO KIDDING!

The "green screen" is an abomination to efficiency! Navigating that thing was like an Escher painting. When a customer comes in for a damn headphone adapter they don't want to give you their address, phone number, email, etc... it takes the same amount of time to ring up BS little purchases as it does large transactions... what a terrible piece of software for such a large corporation.

I worked at Guitar Center for about 3 months, (one of those months being December) and I made absolute squat! You as store manager probably have little control over wages but I was the most informed person in the pro audio department to have ever worked in that store and I couldn't make a dime for the life of me.

So I quit, and their pro audio department has been in shambles for the past year. Bottom line - your pay reflects what type of credentials you're going to have working there, and as long as all of your employees are getting paid wet cardboard they have no reason to learn about what they're selling.

And that "certification" program is a joke!

Only thing I regret after quitting: 15 dollar mic stands and 10 dollar cables with my discount.

soundrick · 20th December 2007, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dasmetre

I'm the general Manager for GC in Fountain Valley, CA and have a question for you guys--

What do we need to do better? I want to be a part of the solution.
Thanks
Eli

ps--I hope this doesn't turn into a "you guys suck" thread, because that's not going to help us get better at what we do.

thanks again!

I think you might be barking up the wrong tree here....Bless you for trying, but most the people on this forum (as I'm sure you've noticed) are the "I just go to guitar center for strings, sticks, cases, (insert other expendibles here)" type.
I think you know the demographic of your target customer base, and if you don't, ask your corporate marketing dept. and they'll tell you.
Some guy mentioned in an earlier post maybe putting some comment cards out for the customers you already have. Maybe start there.....

The gearslutz are dedicated to knowing about gear. It doesn't take a lot of market research to figure out that the complaints you're going to find on this forum about GC are going to mainly center around the average salesman's lack of knowledge. It really comes down to a d#ck-measuring contest. You're only going to find heartbreak around here!

Corporations are about the bottom line, and I'm sure GC bottom line is going to be met by selling Presonus gear, and mexican Strats to boneheads a hell of a lot quicker than Manley and AC30s to professionals.

Again, bless you for trying, you sound like a knowledgeable guy, and I'm sure it would be a more fun and satisfying job experience for you to sell to your peers all the time, but a more pragmatic approach would lead you to focus on the GC market, and focus on GC customers. Based on what I've seen around here, GS is not representing a worthwhile percentage of GC customers to warrant your time.....

Sorry if this comes across badly, I'm just tired of the corporate "reach out to everyone" line, when it's not possible with most corporate business practices, and the corporations know it as well.
I'm not blaming you, I admire your desire to improve.....good luck

stevep · 20th December 2007, 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dasmetre

I haven't worked at our El Toro location, but I'm glad they got you taken care of!

Ive had good luck at the el toro store, there was a guy there "Eric T " that took great care of me, i dont think hes there anymore, im not sure,....

i will have to come up and visit you guys in Ft valley

thanks for coming on here, its good to see you care

Football · 20th December 2007, 12:29 PM

Some good posts here (and some arguing shite as well).

I would love it if sales people didn't try to incorporate old school hardcore "sales" tactics. I don't want someone to act like my f'ing buddy the second they see me. For instance, "Bro, your looking good with that Les Paul, man the ladies love that when you play it onstage under the lights". First line I have to hear.

How about, "if you need help with anything please let me know" or "can I help you with anything"? Those may not seem like good "sales" tactics however the other approach backfires with me and the result is I hate going to GC and rarely buy anything there (that's not the only reason however). If someone wants to engage me, just ask those type of questions. If I need something I'll let you know. Typical sales tactics bite hard in 2008, just act friggin' normal and be respectful of people. People generally hate the "used car salesman" approach.

I saw someone comment about the strings (009's suck get 10's) and had a similar experience with that. I ask to buy D'Addario 10's and the guy explains why 009's are better. Are you sh*tting me? Don't just assume a customer has only been playing there instrument for six months and doesn't really know what they want. I'm asking you to grab something off the wall so I can give you money for it, I don't want a lecture on why I am buying the wrong thing. You've already made the sale you dummy.

The experience could also be better with lowering the f'ing volume of shitty aggressive music played in the store soundsystem. If I'm trying to listen to a piece of gear that makes it awful difficult amidst the music blasting over the system and also the half dozen or so crappy guitar players cranking amplifiers. Please get more iso rooms so they can blast the amps in there.

The lack of knowledge and misinformation is shocking in general, however I have always seen that in music stores (always).

By the way, I have seen so much of this stuff over the years it is incredible. It is the way it is, the way it was and the way it always will be (please prove me wrong!).

My Guitar Center is in Danvers MA and is a friggin' horror show. There was a guy I liked years ago (Dan something or other) and one decent guy now (can't remember his name). Bottom line is the pay sucks donkey a*s so how can you ever keep good people. Apple stores aren't commission based so they don't hound the crap out of me. In my experience their "geniuses" are far from that but that is for another thread.

If some of these ideas were incorporated maybe sales would go down, what do I know. I only know my experience there sucks donkey dong so I buy online as much as humanly possible.
Do I sound pissed (I just want to be sure I'm representing my feelings accurately)?

pigpen · 20th December 2007, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The dman

I think this started after an incident 20 some years ago that happened at the old Chicago Milwaukee Av store. Some guy brought in a case and walked out with a 57 strat. They started their "door policy" right after that.

Yea, there is the old story Slash tells even...not Guitar Center, but same idea. Walks in with his friends Les Paul case to try out some heads....walks out with a Paul.

Back to the main subject.
I do not have an issue with GC. The sales people are kind of a pain, but I do not go to GC to ask questions. I go because I need something right then. They are like the Wal Mart of gear. If you want info on high end stuff, don't call them. Pretty simple in my eyes.

monkeyt · 20th December 2007, 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anahamkarah

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19th December 2007, 09:29 AM	#181
jigsawlogic Gear maniac Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 171	I'm glad that you are taking the time to canvas your market base. My main encouragement for you would be this: do not, under any circumstance, allow any of your employees to pretend to know more than they do. If they recommend product A over product X, then they MUST have experience with BOTH, and be able to back it up in conversation with the customer...especially the customer who is intimately familiar with both pieces of gear. I think that the best way to balance profit with favorable impression is as follows: market to age range, with each range having a corresponding set of cohorts. For instance, assume that the 40-year old guy knows his shit. Unless he is noticeably off-balance, and looks at his hands in concentration to see when they will make trails again. Look to the 14-year old kid as an idiot that you can say anything to. You can sell him anything within his parents' limits. But measure that against his future potential to learn the use of firearms, coupled with his innate ability to harbor a grudge. You see? It's all about people skills. Much luck. __________________ idle fingers are the nostrils playthings

19th December 2007, 04:17 PM	#185
ddageek Lives for gear Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: galveston ? Dallas Probably Homeless Posts: 723	Ok having built one of your cometitors retail division I have to say this again ASKING WHY IS IMPORTANT!!! 60% of the customers don't know what they need or have gotten worse advice then they would get from the sales dude!!! Returns cost the company money and I don't know how many clients I save from saying we sucked by qualifying what they acutally Needed! Example Manager of a high profile producers studio comes in ( I have known him since I was 10 for a DAT cleaning tap( Yeah this was that long ago) I ask him why he wants it? Well all our Machines are dirty and you Know!" "hey those things eat Heads way t abrasive have somebody open the machines and use the old cotton swab!" "Look I aint got the time, you have no Idea!" "ok hears your cleaner but I wouldn't" Two weeks latter He shows up in service (hideing from me with DAT machines all in need of new heads then walks over and buys 2 B stock SV3700s!! less cost for him more profit for me than new ones! The true pros never questioned why I asked why! because! 1 they respected my opinion and new I would only suggest what I thought might work better for them U was the one who got payed for knowing what did what and what was in that wharehouse not them! 2 I got to learn what others where using and because I was awre of what their projects where I Had another reference of what sounded good on what! Now If someone wants a royer I wouldn't try to talk him into chinese ribbon Unless I was pretty sure it wasn't going to work and the guy just had to have a ribbon (lwss cash wasted! But why can be a sign of respect! Not an insult If your skin is that thin I hope you never need to read a review of your work! __________________ I have had worse days, but hey I've been on fire! I feel like I should make the pissed smiley my Avitar Eric Nelson

20th December 2007, 12:27 AM	#194
Brad McGowan Lives for gear Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 2,840	My suggestion would be to hire, train, and retain more knowledgeable and skilled people, especially in pro audio. I think half the time I find myself in the pro audio section of the store I end up providing more help and knowledge to other customers than the sales staff does. I also often overhear conversations between sales people and customers where the salesperson is providing misinformation and poor guidance to address the customer's needs. That's usually where I feel obligated to step in and say something. Hire professionals and not just kids that want employee discounts on Akai MPC's and Neumann mics. Make getting a job in the pro audio department much more difficult and I’m sure you’ll eventually attract more skilled people. I think knowledge of acoustics, familiarity with various software and hardware, and experience working in a real studio (non-bedroom) should be mandatory requirements. I understand that not everyone can know everything, but it makes sense to know something. It’s really a frustrating shopping experience when I approach a salesperson and say “Hi, I was curious about the BLUE Dragonfly mic…do you have any experience with it on drum overheads”, and he either replies “Dude, it’s totally killer, it picks up everything in front of it”, or “Nope I’ve never heard it”. Here’s a great suggestion actually: Hire a bunch of well-respected Gearslutz to train the pro audio sales staff. Thanks for listening. Brad __________________ Little Red Wagon Studios http://www.myspace.com/lrws How to integrate your analog tape deck with your DAW: http://www.youtube.com/user/redwagonstudio http://myspacetv.com/index.cfm?fusea...deoid=40930870

19th December 2007, 03:40 PM	#184
zerocrossing Gear interested Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Emeryville CA Posts: 23	I have an idea that has nothing to do with price or salesman's knowledge/attitude. Sound. There have been more times than I can remember that my local GC (SF Bay area) was a carcophany of "shredding" and wankery. I say try setting the store up like Apple's Genius bar. Shredding by appointment only. Come in, sign in for an audition room and wait your turn. Don't want to wait? Buy it and try it. GC's strength is their return policy. Lean on that. Trying it in a store is next to worthless anyway. How it behaves in your studio/stage is what counts anyway. When I walk in to a GC I should hear the lilting dudespeake of your staff and the gentle tone's of a Soundgarden CD in the back ground (way background and only near the register) Also, teach your salespeople this phrase: "I have no idea, let me see if I can find that out." There is nothing worse than a salesperson afraid to seem stupid being stupid by spouting gibberish when they can't answer your question. Of course no underpaid salesperson is going to know everything about all the products they sell. I feel so happy when I get honesty from a salesperson and genuine help. Einstein said, "Never memorize something you can look up." (I paraphrase)

19th December 2007, 05:44 PM	#186
dwall Gear maniac Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Chicago Posts: 297	I like the guitar center in Chicago. They've been getting more boutique guitar pedals which I can get at a nice price (never any hassles there). Sometimes someone tries to sell me something I don't need or want, but rarely. I would like to see more high end pre's, comp's, and other recording gear, including mic's. No store in Chicago stocks this stuff, so they'd be the only place in town to try such things out (aside from going into a studio, of course). It's a stretch, but I also wish there were a way to take demo mic's home to try. One thing I find funny is that pretty much anything I buy, the sales person will be like "I have one of those myself". Or, even better, "I have a friend who uses one of those." I'm sure they or someone they know does own a Boss delay pedal. Not that I don't believe that they own and like and are excited about the product. I'd do the same if I worked there: "you're getting the used MXR distortion + from the 80's? Aesome! They do sound different than the new ones. I use both for different applications, but usually go with my old one." (I don't feel I have enough experience with enough gear to work there, though.) It would be interesting for some of the more knowledgable GC staffers to create their own thread of stupid sh!t customers have come in there and said. I have to imagine that you spend most of your time with people who have literally no clue as to the difference between a guitar and a bass, but they know their kid wants one. And what kind of strings does it take? Deal with that day in and day out, and maybe we'd all get a little "recommendation happy".

19th December 2007, 06:38 PM	#188
timmcallister Gear maniac Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: oregon Posts: 272	Given the correct salesperson, I actually like GC. Frankly, my expectation is to walk in and get things significantly below MAP. I'm happy and I assume GC and the salesperson are making enough off me (otherwise, they wouldn't give me these prices). It's finding the right saleperson and establishing a relationship with them that's key. I've had great luck with a few at a local store here, and I like that with these two guys, I don't even have to ask for the deeper discounts. They know I expect them and there is no haggling. I was there last week and got a vox tonelab le for $355 (12% below MAP) an alphatrack for $169 (15% below MAP). and a Axiom 61 for $249 (18% below). I actually bought a few vintage fender amps there as well. They were marked way too high, but I was allowed to pull the chassis and look over the guts (both were VERY clean with no mods) and the salesperson was willing to sell for ebay prices. I find that an acceptable deal, I KNOW the amp is clean, and thats far easier then shopping ebay for these kind of things. If I am buying higher end items and want service, I use Mercenary. I DO NOT go to GC for advice, or to make friends. I go there for low prices. The problem is weeding through the typical salesperson to find the ones who will do this. To that end, I always wanted a music store who understood this, and we could cut through the "list price on this is..." BS. Keep notes on customers regarding how they expect pricing, and go to that pricing immediately. This eliminates my need to haggle with unknown salespeople, and get my shopping done quickly. With the right expectations, and the right salesperson, I think GC is great.

19th December 2007, 07:10 PM	#189
dwall Gear maniac Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Chicago Posts: 297	Boy, a lot of people here seem to rate themselves as a higher form of life than that of the average GC employee. GC employees are human beings, most of whom like to play music and are at least of average intelligence and ability (just like most of the people on these boards...or is everyone here brilliant?). Many of them are young, and have taken a low-paying job to be around the kind of things they like to be around (and to get the discount) instead of working at some other sh!t job while going to school or trying to get their band off the ground. I'm sure it can be intimidating at times, and they end up goofing it. Life should be intimidating at that age, though. It's the only way to learn. Also, it's not their fault that it's a corporate environment that makes its huge money by encouraging teenagers and other beginners to buy begginer's gear. Employees who decide they don't like the environment quit (we all know they have a high turnover), and others learn how to play the system (my favorites!). Others just end up stuck there because their other plans didn't pan out. It happens to all kinds of intelligent and decent people. I don't go to GC to make friends, but if I made a friend there, I wouldn't be ashamed of it. Jeez.

19th December 2007, 09:29 PM	#191
dwall Gear maniac Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Chicago Posts: 297	Regarding the "Why" question, I have been a little put off by that myself, almost like I felt I was being tested or something. But now I understand better that it's to make sure people don't buy an xlr cable to plug their guitar into the tv set. When it doesn't work, they'll blame the GC staff.

19th December 2007, 10:32 PM	#192
wanderlust8 Gear Head Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Long Beach, Ca Posts: 35	what a crazy thread... I live in the LA area, and have bought several items from the Fountain Valley GC over the years. However, of the stores in my vincinity, it is the last on my list to peruse. I would rather be at the GC on Sunset or Sherman Oaks. Why? The employees. I'm not "hounded" when I walk in the door, and I'm not left to die. They don't often ask me, "Why?" - which always offends me straight away. Can't you have your employees ask in a different way? Here are my suggestions: 1. Ensure your inventory works! - I've left several times from the FV location because NONE of the monitors were hooked up (The very last time I went in, only a couple were patched into the Mackie Big Knob)... and some of your keys/synths were not hooked up to any monitors. - My first experience with the FV store ages ago, i bought an open boxed- Digi001. with no manuals and most importantly... No Code! It took me over a week from your store to get a valid number to get my product working. 2. Be sure to sell new stuff NEW (sealed)! - 50% of the items I've bought at the FV store came out from the back re-taped. I am insured everything is perfect, then I get home and it's not. Once it was an Event monitor with crumpled edges, the other also on Blue Sky monitors! I'm dropping a grand each time dying to get home to play.. only to turn right back around. 3. Train your employees to NOT treat every customer the SAME. We are all not the same... we were all beginners at once too, and some of us are not beginners any more. - Also, it should be standard that I get the sales person's name. If they are asking if I need help, they should say, "I'm Johnny, and "guitars" is my department. Let me know if I can help you". - I'd rather not wander around, trying to find someone else to help me, when I can say, 'where's Johnny in guitars"? so... in the last 6 months.. I've only bought some strings, and a strap from your FV store, only because it was close by and I got it that instant. Otherwise, my major purchases have moved elsewhere... say 50%online, and 50% from other GC's and local retailers in LA. Good luck and appreciate what you're doing. I'd be happy to see some good changes in the FV GC.

19th December 2007, 11:21 PM	#193
NYMo Gear Head Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Australia Posts: 57	Hi there, I used to work for 15 years in Musical Inst and manage Australias largest music stores which was a GC equivalent called Brashs in the 80's and 90's. We had a branch in every main city. I have read this whole thread, and although things at GC are obviously a bit different, a lot of what happens in a MI store is the same the world over. 1 We were told to approach every customer and make friendly conversation. (hey dude...nice day outside etc etc) If they go in the shop and don't get served, that is another possible sale lost. 2 Qualify customers, by asking questions, so they can be directed to only one or two products and therefore have a better chance of selling it. 3 Try and switch sell a customer to either... (a) a product that has to be moved (b)a product that represents more commission for the sales person (c)a product where the manufacturer has given an incentive(free trip,TV etc) (d)a product where the company gets a 5% extra kickback if they do X amount over a say 3 month period. Obviously the Presonus thing is related to the above. 4 There are two kinds of staff... (a) Ones that think its a glamorous life and soon learn the hard reality that it is a very demanding job "hey dude..we'll just sit around and play guitar all day" they last only a few months (b)Those that understand and can either work through or manipulate the company politics....those are the survivors. I left the business in '94...one of my friends in still in it and we worked together for 7 years ! Thats 20 years he's been doing it...but he has everything sussed ! 5 Management set budgets and targets for every employee and the ones that don't make it are usually fired. Thats why you see a high turnover of staff. One may be a great musician or have great technical knowledge, but that doesn't make them a great salesman. In fact a guy who had been with our company for 28 years and didn't even play an instrument was consistently the countries number one sales person in MI ! (empathy) 6 Margins A company would usually buy at say retail less 30% less 15% with a kickback of say 5% to 10% on invoice paid in a month to the wholesaler. A blowout product may only have between 20-30% in it. If you sell at a discount of 20%-25% off retail there is not a lot of profit left. Once you take out all the expenses (wages being the largest) a company usually made about 3% NET profit to sales. (around 30% Gross Profit on sales) ie to make $3 NET profit they had to sell $100 worth of retail product $1,000,000 =$30,000 How to increase net profit ? Cut wages...thats most probably why GC staff are paid not much. 7 Commissions Our company paid reasonable wages and kept the commission scheme healthy. Commission is THE only incentive to (a) encourage the salesperson to earn a reasonable wage (b) offer spiffs or cash incentives on certain products ie "if you sell this strat today , not only will you get your normal commission but we will pay you a spiff of $20" The more comission a staff member gets , the more the company turns over 8 Customers (think of the salespeople !) (a) Imagine working in the same store for 10 years and the same tyre kicking customers come in virtually every day with no intention of ever buying anything, but want to try all the Les Pauls.. listening to bratz try to play Stairay to Heaven, Enter Sandman, Smoke on the water etc etc (or whatever is current now) drummers that can't play in time, people that just wanna hang out on a cold day ! We put up with a lot of shit as well, so we need to weed out the serious customers from the dead heads (no offense Jerry!) and that takes a lot of questions. 9 The guy at the door.. If you knew what i've seen customers do.. Just grab a $3000 guitar off the wall and run with it out the front door with the security giving chase (fat chance!) a lady fill her pram up with saxophones and casually walk out people shoplifting stuff all the time etc etc people deliberately damaging guitars why do you think those Boss pedals are in glass case ?? we used to lose 10 a week ! Peolple that wanted to try them out, salesperson goes to another customer, turns around other guy gone..so is the pedal ! If you knew what i've seen staff do.... arrange for their pal to come in on a Sunday when there is hardly any staff and give them a $2000 effect unit which isn't noticed for a couple of weeks duplicate actual sales paperwork and take two of the same item..ie one to the original customer...one to a false customer (with the same cash register docket imprint !) take home strings, picks , guitar mags, slides, midi interfaces, mics etc etc anything that would fit in their bag the loan book was rife... one of our managers loaned a $100,000 Steinway to a Mercedes dealership owner for a new Mercedes on loan !!! Employing a door goon sorted all this out.."sorry for the inconvenience but you Don't know our staff !!!" I'll stop here As usual there are two sides to every story.. hopefully I've given you a small insight onto the other side ! Sugggestions for Eli. 1 Get your staff badges (if you haven't done that already) Not just name badges but what the salesperson specialises in...ie Joe Bloggs Guitar Expert. Reward your top achieving sales staff (from your top achievers club..you do have one right??) with a special badge. Mine used to say Master Consultant. People would think "whats that shit mean?* but when i told them I was highly qualified in Hi Tech, i usually got that hi tech sale.(this was before the recording boom) 2 You personally can't change a big company (i know!) but it starts in your own store and your own staff , one by one. You are obviously are trying to do the right thing. If your staff are good, your net profits will go up (cause you'll have more people coming in) your GP will rise and head office will be saying Eli must be doing something right down at that store then at a mangers conference that will come up and then maybe you will be able to change something. Thanx for letting me express my dimes worth . Cheers N Y M O

20th December 2007, 02:28 AM	#196
brokemusician3 Gear nut Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 107	Simple 1. Pay sales people more and hire more knowledgeable people. 2. Bring back liberal take back policy, I'm afraid to purchase things at G.C because they stick you with a restocking fee if you don't like something. 3. Make sure there isn't too long of a wait to get help. 4. Make your pro audio room accessible so people can hear the gear. 5. Have a mic listening room like Mars music used to have.

20th December 2007, 07:29 AM	#198
screamingcatfish Gear maniac Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 228	sellin B stock as A stock is a common occurrence..........scratched up,refixed,......especially mail order......

20th December 2007, 12:29 PM	#202
Football Lives for gear Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Boston Area Posts: 527	Some good posts here (and some arguing shite as well). I would love it if sales people didn't try to incorporate old school hardcore "sales" tactics. I don't want someone to act like my f'ing buddy the second they see me. For instance, "Bro, your looking good with that Les Paul, man the ladies love that when you play it onstage under the lights". First line I have to hear. How about, "if you need help with anything please let me know" or "can I help you with anything"? Those may not seem like good "sales" tactics however the other approach backfires with me and the result is I hate going to GC and rarely buy anything there (that's not the only reason however). If someone wants to engage me, just ask those type of questions. If I need something I'll let you know. Typical sales tactics bite hard in 2008, just act friggin' normal and be respectful of people. People generally hate the "used car salesman" approach. I saw someone comment about the strings (009's suck get 10's) and had a similar experience with that. I ask to buy D'Addario 10's and the guy explains why 009's are better. Are you shtting me? Don't just assume a customer has only been playing there instrument for six months and doesn't really know what they want. I'm asking you to grab something off the wall so I can give you money for it, I don't want a lecture on why I am buying the wrong thing. You've already made the sale you dummy. The experience could also be better with lowering the f'ing volume of shitty aggressive music played in the store soundsystem. If I'm trying to listen to a piece of gear that makes it awful difficult amidst the music blasting over the system and also the half dozen or so crappy guitar players cranking amplifiers. Please get more iso rooms so they can blast the amps in there. The lack of knowledge and misinformation is shocking in general, however I have always seen that in music stores (always). By the way, I have seen so much of this stuff over the years it is incredible. It is the way it is, the way it was and the way it always will be (please prove me wrong!). My Guitar Center is in Danvers MA and is a friggin' horror show. There was a guy I liked years ago (Dan something or other) and one decent guy now (can't remember his name). Bottom line is the pay sucks donkey as so how can you ever keep good people. Apple stores aren't commission based so they don't hound the crap out of me. In my experience their "geniuses" are far from that but that is for another thread. If some of these ideas were incorporated maybe sales would go down, what do I know. I only know my experience there sucks donkey dong so I buy online as much as humanly possible. Do I sound pissed (I just want to be sure I'm representing my feelings accurately)?