Part of the solution---if you shop at Guitar Center, read this

[brad347]

I've got one.

Encourage your employees to be forthwith when they do NOT know something.

Nobody in this world can know everything. I fully expect that GC employees will not know as much as I do about making music and the equipment used to do so because, well, I do this for a living and they work at guitar center. Not meaning that in a cocky way, but if they knew as much as I or other professionals did, they would likely have an actual career in the music industry, full-time.

If I worked at a plumbing store and some professional plumber came in and said "I need a so and so L bracket blahbetty blah" and I didn't know what that was, it wouldn't come as a real surprise. Because I'm not a professional plumber.

But I bet he would be a lot happier and more understanding if I admitted ignorance, asked him to clarify or did something to point him in the general direction of finding what he needed, rather than BLUFFING him to act like I knew what he was talking about and that he REALLY needed this or that other thing and NOT what he needed.

Once I went into a GC and asked for an XLR polarity reversal adapter to swap pin 2 and 3. The guy says "Sure, we've got plenty of those, do you want the polarity changed to quarter inch or what?" When I explained to him that I did not want an adapter to change to another cable type, but rather a reversal of polarity, and then when that didn't work explained what polarity reversal meant, he was looking at me all crosseyed like I was a retard.

Finally his manager from across the store had to pipe in and tell me they did not have that in stock, but could order it. The original guy was still trying to bluff his way into not looking stupid. I also had to explain to him what a stereo bar was, for the record, and actually point to it behind the counter for him to grab me one. I was polite, but he was a jerk.

This is NOT a unique experience in GC.

Most of the employees seem trained to "never let them see you sweat." It's like they tell them to always pretend they know what they are talking about, and always act like they are a bigger expert than the client. Most of the time, this is simply NOT true. Which is why I rarely ever set foot in there anymore except for little stuff.

Now to lead by positive example:

ONE TIME I had a really good guitar center dude. I found a great amp in the store, a '61 Fender Super-amp, and even though my morals told me not to buy at GC I just had to have it. So the sales dude was super cool, very low pressure, not overly enthusiastic, nor was he like a puppy dog when he figured out that I could actually play more than a few cowboy chords. He realized that it was impossible to hear anything over the many others trying out guitars that day, and since it was sort-of an expensive amp, he found me a room to try it out in. He offered, I didn't ask. He then left me alone for a long time to put it through its paces and it was love. I had to buy it, so I did. He had been so cool and low-pressure, didn't try to upsell me, didn't "DUUUUDE" me a single time, wasn't FAKE at all, etc etc that I didn't even negotiate on the price. I let him tell ME what he could do, and then I paid it without argument. He threw in a cable. I appreciated his good service SO much that I didn't even try to haggle at all. Now THERE is a guy who has it figured out! Funny thing is, I also got the feeling he actually knew about what he was selling but he didn't feel the need to PROVE it to me.

Now THAT is what it's all about!

[Da Mill]

NOISE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!
You don't need to play music when people are trying to hear an instrument.

Recently I brought a Kay 1950's f hole with original factory pickup & knobs to trade in. Told "we don't buy those". I said I don't want to sell it, I want to get store credit on a trade in. He said "it's the same thing" I said "no it's not as a trade in insures a purchase on my part whereas buying allows me to walk out of the store with the money.
I went to an independent in the area and they gave me $250. trade in value on a new Fender Stratocaster. The Kay is now behind a glass display case with an asking price of about twice the amount as the trade in value, and they made profit from a sale to me that day.
Instruct your people on the difference between "buying" and trade in value.

[Oldone]

Ok, had to come back here and say that Eli from GC, the author of this thread, contacted me and asked me to come back to the store and he would make my deal right. I think this is pretty honorable. He even checked on me a couple of times to see if there were any discounts he could apply to variuous things I was looking at.

I also think it was pretty gutsy putting this thread up here and to be willing to extend some concern to present and future customers. Satisfied customer here. Thanks Eli.

[FFTT]

Just to be fair, it's not just GC that needs to learn a few lessons.

A local small store pretty much has an attitude problem, thinking they are just
too cool for their customers at times.

Because they are close by, I always drop in to see what they have
and primarily end up buying small accessories from them.

Their attitude didn't work in their favor with this customer.

I've spent close to $8000.00 in 2007 on gear.

I took my business elsewhere.

[DRC]

Originally Posted by BLueROom

GC and GCPro

I wish.

There is a Pro Audio dept. at stores in the Chicago area, but no GC Pro. Just the usual 13 pre-teens amazed by the whammy bar on an all ready out of tune guitar through a Mesa making life hell for everyone in the building.

[dasmetre]

Kittonian and Oldone--thanks for your kind words--it means alot!

Keep the ideas coming, guys, because I want to use all of your suggestions to not only become the model store you guys are describing, but to set the example for how we should operate chainwide. There are some things we have no control over at the store level, but the things I can control will be done so with this feedback (as well as that from my local customers) firmly implanted.

Thanks!
Eli

[upinflames]

I don't have any problems with the Guitar Center at Cincinnati. Sure, it's frustrating having to wait for a store manager to do a return or get approval for a price change, but I work at a frickin' book store part time and I have to do that for a $3.98 paperback, it's a typical store policy.

But I agree that employees show assume, unless asked by the customer for their opinon, the people in your store know what they are looking for and if they can't find it they will ask one of your employees.

I believe every GC has a different buying policy, but the store in Nashville is as follows: We check to see what the item sells for on eBay and offer 40% of that price. I was told I could get $100 for a silverface Fender Champ. Don't even waste my time if you are going to waste my time and insult me. However, the store Cincinnati is not like that. I believe they offer 70% of what they are going to sell it for (I sold a Fender 4x10 for $450 to them and they listed it for $599).

[lhm1138]

Nothing I can really criticize about GC, for a Best Buy of Music Instruments, it's pretty good. The staff here at the Jacksonville, FL store are very knowledgeable and helpful, especially John Jenkins at the Atlantic Blvd GC. My main criticism would be of the people that come in to play terribly on the workstation keyboards and grooveboxes for hours, reeking of marijuana smoke and driving the sales staff crazy while bogarting the demo instruments. All those instruments should be headphones required....it's bad enough to hear someone playing Smoke on the Water badly on a Gorilla amp, much less some pothead rap/techno retard who can't keep time even with quantize turned on.

[infopimpster]

I agree - Guitar Center, listen up: Get the wanna-be rap "producers" OUT of the keyboard area. There was a non-stop "jam" happening for over 1 hours on my last visit to San Jose GC. NON STOP!

The "gentlemen" appeared homeless, or maybe I'm just not up on the fashions. It made me want to leave more quickly, and take my money with me.

Tough problem, I'm sure, but there are simple solutions.

[Jsx]

One issue I am aware of is the employment policy of many Guitar Centers. I had a friend not long ago apply for a position in the recording department of Guitar Center and was told to apply online via a survey. The survey asked convoluted morality questions to which he apparently answered one wrong. Because of this, he was told he could not apply again for another month, and the position was taken by a teenager who knew next to nothing about recording, much less the equipment involved.

I can understand the purpose of these surveys, but I wonder if the Guitar Center CEOs truly believe that a simple online survey will somehow weed out poor quality employees. Would a drug addict ever say he had taken drugs during an employment survey? Of course not, and to somehow assume otherwise is to just complicate the employment process even further and create a Wal-Mart-esque feeling of corporate superiority.

This, like many of the problems mentioned here, is likely something far above local management, but one person can always make a difference.

[Baderup99]

Originally Posted by bunnerabb

My last visit to your N. Olmsted, OH store, almost verbatim:

"I need a couple of cables for my keyboard rig"

"DUDE THOSE SUCK.. YOU NEED MONSTER. BEST IN THE INDUSTRY. ONLY WAY TO GO"

"Well, I do a lot of pro au.."

"DUDE. BUY THE MONSTER. IT'S YOUR ONLY CHOICE. SERIOUSLY."

"I see."

I also need a small, chromatic tuner for a gui..."

'DUDE. THIS ONE. THERE'S NO GOOD TUNER UNDER 79.00"

"And yet you sell them?"

"DUDE, THIS IS THE TUNER YOU WANT. LET ME RING IT UP."

*sigh*

"And a set of str.."

'DUDE, DO YOU PLAY .009s? YOU NEED .010s. 009s SUCK."

You try wading through that horseshit from some kid that you have T-shirts older than, in the process of trying to spend a C note and you'll see what the problem is.

Wow it seems like I've read a bunch of the conversations before. I feel bad for all you people who get into talks like that. Hey man I got to the GC in Akron and I've never had anyone EVER push me into buying sometihng or saying, hey that sucks get these. The day someone says that to me, i'll probably just laugh at them.

The key to make your GC visits pleasureable is to keep going back to the same guy. Make friends with him. After awhile of talking he'll figure ut you probably know more than him (pro audio) and that he is there to get you good deals. I bought a roadrunner gig bag. $29.99 went up to my guy and said hey how about this for $25 total with tax. GREAT! Saved like $7 on a $30 gig bag.

[bunnerabb]

Originally Posted by Baderup99

Wow it seems like I've read a bunch of the conversations before. I feel bad for all you people who get into talks like that. Hey man I got to the GC in Akron and I've never had anyone EVER push me into buying sometihng or saying, hey that sucks get these. The day someone says that to me, i'll probably just laugh at them.

Cool.

Maybe I should look into the Akron GC.

It's only a few miles more.

[Baderup99]

Originally Posted by bunnerabb

Cool.

Maybe I should look into the Akron GC.

It's only a few miles more.

yeah I like it a lot, since im in there quite often the pro audio guys know me. So instead of "hey can i help you with something" it's more like a " hey hows it going, any new gear or projects you are working on?"

This can happen at any GC.

And for everyone who goes in there who already know a lot about pro audio, why are you asking these teenage kids questions that they probably don't know in the first place?
GC for gearslutz people is a place you go to for when you walk into the door you already know what you want to buy, you are just going to try to get a good deal. I don't go in there asking for advice, that's why I'm on gearslutz.

[dcwave]

When I want to buy something from you - sell it to me. Don't ask me why, don't ask me "are you sure", don't tell me you have to find a screwdriver to take it out of a rack. Don't tell me through your body language that selling me the item is going create hardship for you - I don't care, just do what you need to do and ring me up.

Since the guy I used to deal with at GC left, I have had to deal with other employees who seem to think that I care if their life sucks because they have to go into the back and see if something is there, or find a manual, etc. I have money, let me pay and let me leave.

Which brings me up to my other gripe - I don't have time to stand around waiting for the pothead at the door who has the reading skills of a pre-schooler to try and figure out if the receipt matches the item in my hand. I have already waited for the box from the back, waited for the computer to bring up my account information, waited for a manager to okay my discount, waited for the receipt and then I have to wait in yet another line of people to leave the store. Put a check-stand at the door, save me some time.

[Silverlode]

The single reason I loathe going into GC is because everyone that works there calls me "Man" or "Dude". I walk in the front door and some jerk says, "Hey man, how's it going?" I go up to the counter to get some sticks and it's, "What's up dude?" I just want to punch those guys.

Start treating your customers like they actually are keeping you in business. Be respectful, don't try to be my friend.

Maybe this is a regional thing only in Chicagoland. Anyway, I haven't bought anything from a GC in years, although I have been.

[bunnerabb]

The 'd0od' thing is ubiquitous.

You know.. cause if you're buying a bitchin strat or a totally pro PreSonus you must be a hip rock star.

[swafford]

Originally Posted by dasmetre

Any input at all is help enough for me to set an example. I consider Apple ......

Please, don't. If you actually know what you need, Apple is not unlike GC. My laptop died in the middle of a job last week, I spent 2 mins in the Apple Store telling them what I wanted as my work laptop had just died, 30 mins waiting for them (yes it took more then 2 people) to figure how to ring it up (I had a ram upgrade), 15 more of them explaining to me why I couldn't walk out of the store with it (the ram upgrade would be a 2 hour wait while they installed the ram one of them could have installed on the counter while they figured out how to ring it up), when they could have said all that with in the first 2 minutes when I told first sales person (then the second) what I wanted AND WHY. Soooo I spent 1 hour or more in the Apple Store on my >>>lunch<<<< instead of 2 minutes, only because I knew what I needed and they didn't LISTEN. 58 minutes that cascaded the rest of the day into lateness everywhere.

Sales is about LISTENING, not only to what your customers are SAYING but what they ARE NOT SAYING.

GC, I've never had an issue with the guys in Audio, very helpful, get me what I need. The doood in string accessories and other crap always trys to sell me something I don't want, but usually shuts up when I give him the scowl.

Buy a new guitar a GC...are you fvcking nuts? Why would anyone with any sense buy a new guitar ANYWHERE?

[mixman499]

Originally Posted by swafford

Sales is about LISTENING, not only to what your customers are SAYING but what they ARE NOT SAYING.

RIGHT !!!

i know some great folks at GC in st.louis, milwaukee, and chicago. all good people. i buy alot of stuff from em. the only bad experiences i have at a GC are very similar to bad experiences at ANY retailer....sales people who talk more than listen.

i have walked in and asked to purchase specific items, and have speant WAY too much time trying to talk the "dude" sales kid out of trying to sell me something else. the guys i like to deal with know their sh!@#....and if they do not know something...they confidently admit it...and if needed...find out.

GC is a big coropration...its a box store for the most part...but i still find some value in shopping there...generally for utility stuff...strings, heads, sticks, stands, etc..

i truly feel it is still about PEOPLE. there are plenty of lame "dude" sales guys...and still lots of GREAT sales guys at GC.

my suggestion to the original poster.....GET GOOD PEOPLE...pay them FAIRLY. treat customers FAIRLY. end of story.

best,

jchristopherhughes

[chrisp2u]

Originally Posted by lowfreq33

An SM57 lists at $158.99. Have you ever paid more than $99 for a 57? No, $99 is the price, no more, no less.

Wait. We're talking GC here... you probably asked for the sm7 and the sales dude said "Oh, dude, you mean the sm57? Yeah, that's great mic, but you should check out these Audix mics... they're way better".

[intolerance]

You guys have always been helpful at that Location. I would just recommend speeding up your check-out process a bit when we want to give you money.

Say hi to Sunshine for me.

-Aaron

[Bryan Talbot]

Originally Posted by biggator6

The noise level in the stores is unbearable.. the cacophony of newbies playing the latest songs that had tabs posted in GuitarWorld... ugh.

Originally Posted by DRC

...but when ever I walk into GC it is such an unbearable cacophony of sonic sh*t that I honestly want to walk right back out.

Just for fun, here's a little piece that a friend and I put together, with GC in mind.

As for the "DUDE" factor, I don't deal with it; there are advantages to being 6'8 with semi-grey hair and a time-worn "don't BS me" expression on my face.

[theque]

i think it comes down to the individuals, i had a music store that had good prices (which the staff did not have to look up) and happily passed over lots of cash to the same guy for years. He left and two visits later i swore i would never give them another dollar.(i have not)

There are really only two models, 1- keep looking until you find good staff, treat them and pay them well so they stay.

2- use the mc donalds approach and employ anybody, and make up millions of rules to try and control lots of bad, porly trained transient staff.

[theGeek]

ok, there are a few things about GC that I don't like.

The first being the idiots who play the same riff 1000 times on different guitar/amp combinations. But you have no control over that.

But as far as service goes... I'm sick of having salespeople tell me what I "need" in an amp. I go in looking for a small tube combo and they try to sell me a B-52 stack. forget that fact that I don't need a stack but I don't like B-52... Also, when I say I don't need anything just leave me be. When I have a question I will ask... I promise.

Now on to the Pro Audio section. Teach your guys about something other than ProTools. Don't get me wrong, pro tools is great but some of us use other programs. I like Ableton. That's me. So when I come in looking for info on Ableton it would be nice to have someone there who knows more about it than me.

[astronmr20]

I'm gonna chime in and say that in order to have stores that size, with that sort of overhead.. buying power, stock, etc,

Proper training is practically impossible.


Look at the history, engineering, sound, subjectivity, and general knowledge necessary for modern recording. Unless someone has experience with this sort of product, it's very difficult to teach them. Software recording is rife with issues regarding drivers, hardware, and stability in general. one can know the "features" of the software backwards and forwards, and STILL make a bad suggestion. The only way to know is to own the product, and to enjoy using it. And as owners/ engineers, creators, how many products to we actually mess with? For me, I find what works and cling onto it (Logic). I can tell you some features of DP, but for me, I have never really created or produced or mixed in DP. I'd like to, but why? Logic does what I need. So despite the fact that I have been recording for about 15 years, it's possible for someone, if I was a rep, to leave with the impression that I was a doofus if he had a myriad of questions about DP-specific features. (I guess I could still speculate about a lot and read up on it while he was there asking questions, and be honest and respectful.. something that too many GC employees can't seem to do).

Of course GC could start a GC university" sort of thing, but to what end? Simple statistics say that these people you spend millions of dollars training are going to quit eventually. Turnover is a bitch. There is a happy medium somewhere, and perhaps GC could invest a bit more in people.

What they DO need to focus on- is requiring new hires to watch and learn, perhaps mirror an experienced rep/engineer for a couple of weeks. And when he hits the floor alone, he needs to tell the customer that "he dosen't know" when he gets asked a question he does not know the answer to.

I suppose, though, for every pro like one of us that gets pissed off, there are 10 other people off the street who might believe he knows what he is talking about, and will take every shitty suggestion he makes come Christmastime. *sigh*.



So while I have probably a dozen stories about blundering, disrespectful hacks, it's the price we all pay for having a store this size in a small to medium sized city that stocks blue microphones, sheet music, LA2A's, rack screws, software, and relatively wide selection of acoustic and electric guitars and drums.

[astronmr20]

Originally Posted by theGeek

ok, there are a few things about GC that I don't like.

The first being the idiots who play the same riff 1000 times on different guitar/amp combinations. But you have no control over that.

But as far as service goes... I'm sick of having salespeople tell me what I "need" in an amp. I go in looking for a small tube combo and they try to sell me a B-52 stack. forget that fact that I don't need a stack but I don't like B-52... Also, when I say I don't need anything just leave me be. When I have a question I will ask... I promise.

Now on to the Pro Audio section. Teach your guys about something other than ProTools. Don't get me wrong, pro tools is great but some of us use other programs. I like Ableton. That's me. So when I come in looking for info on Ableton it would be nice to have someone there who knows more about it than me.

Good thoughts.. I use Ableton too when I need to be creative.

However, how do you hire someone off the street that knows more about Ableton than someone like you? Practically impossible. You make a perfect example of what I was talking about in my above post. Look at the job candidate pool they might have on their desk. .0000001 percent of the local population probably have recording experience to begin with, and of them, how many know Ableton? And of those, how many REALLY can create music with it? The numbers and statistics are against you as an employer who might want someone with a diverse digital recording knowledge.

[carlheinz]

Long time customer who dealt regularly with one sales person and wants to know

1.Was Gil fired or did He quit?

2.I think the fountain valley store should wake up to the fact that they will never sell the used AMS RMX and DMX units for $4,500.00 each.WTF?They sit in the back of the booth year after year rotting away.I've inquired and once made a reasonable market value offer and they declined.I'm sure someone"heard" they were used by the pro's....etc etc etc.Some of the pricing on used stuff is pure wacky.


3.The store's background music is TOO LOUD!!!!!!,You cant hear anything.You get blasted in the parking lot with a powered monitor on your way in.Once inside you are again bombarded by the p.a. inside and the tv screens at the same time.You cannot think straight!!!

[cajonezzz]

Can't be fixed. You don't pay enough to keep intelligent, experienced people, that are in it for the long haul. GC is a dumping ground for wanna be muso/recordists, with only a few exceptions , of some older cats that do QUITE well $$$, but know how to work the system.
Anyone serious about making money in that industry, could do really well through GC pro, just given the buying power of the machine. I do deal with some GC pro folks.

otherwise, GC is really a box store, and they are not interested in catering to "pro's". never have nerver will, as we're the guys that grind for less than cost, then complain the most. I just realize it "is what it is" and use GC accordingly.

Two things I'd prefer not to hear from an 18 yr old kid at the drum counter :

Don't call me "dude".

and don't ask me " how much I usually pay for my sticks". I WILL tell them "nothing" everytime... and by the time he runs that by his manager....

anyhow-- Props to Kevin Baby at GC San Diego. Solid dude, very customer service oriented, and know's his shit.

GC PRO had a real coup this year, pulling Glenn Noyes from W. La music, as Well as Derek Snyder. solid gear heads, and customer oriented..

so, you guys aren't all that bad.


oh yeah, Love the cute door girls that checks my purchases to the receipt... maybe add a pat down to the process, just incase I'm trying to smuggle that SM7 out in my pants?