Part of the solution---if you shop at Guitar Center, read this

[bunnerabb]

Originally Posted by idrinkalot

what an embarassing thread

Have a shot of booze.

[Vum]

A few weeks ago I overheard this conversation:

Customer: Well, I have cubase and pt le with an mbox. I don't like cubase at all, and the mbox doesn't have enough inputs.

GC: well, can I interest you in thinking outside the box?

C: what do you mean?

GC: buy logic pro. PT will be gone in less than a year and there isn't really any sort of upgrade plus the hd system costs thousands.

C: so i should buy logic pro?

GC: i would. it's the most powerful program in the world and will have completely replaced pt in less than a year.

C: wow, i guess i better get on board

Shame about those inputs.

[biggator6]

Ordered something that was in stock at a store at another city (set of used, high-end drums)... .took THREE DAYS to complete the transaction.. yes, THREE DAYS of playing phone tag. Then it took TWO WEEKS to actually ship the item out, after I'd already been charged for it. The guys on the phone were not helpful at all, and even tried to do the 'dood, you need...' thing. As above in the thread, not terribly good service.

I've been in GCs in the 3 states I've lived in the last five years... and been pushed PreSonus gear more times than I can even speculate.

The noise level in the stores is unbearable.. the cacophony of newbies playing the latest songs that had tabs posted in GuitarWorld... ugh.

Here's a good comparison for you - I mentioned that I just bought some new drums (Premier Signias).. guys at GC were trying to foist PDP on me.. umm, hello!? About 2 weeks later, I was in Fort lauderdale on business and stopped into Resurrection Drums - asked the young, GC-age kid working there if he ever got Signia snares in.. he politely said "sorry, man - not familiar with Signia.. tell me about them - whats the scoop?" He didn't know - he didn't pretend to know - he didn't try to foist something else on me... he ASKED and wanted to learn more about something that I may know about. That's all about the attitude in the store.

That being said - if you hired knowledgeable people everywhere, we couldn't take advantage of them ever.


"-)

[Vandergraf]

[Tommy-boy]

Have displays work!!!!

I get highly annoyed when I run through the keyboards and half of them won't make a sound or only have one channel coming out. This is not a set it and forget it endevor. Unfortunately your customers screw this stuff up when they fiddle with the keyboards. The setup needs to be checked, and fixed, every day.

Same goes for DAW setups. Have the major DAWs setup and useable. Almost everytime I've asked to see DAW software in action I walked away pissed becuase the soundcard wasn't working, the speakers weren't hooked up, there was a software driver problem, or some other excuse. DAW software and plugins should be installed and ready to go. When you do this, image the damn hard drive so a clean working install is archieved. When it gets screwed up, bring back the clean image.

Same goes for the speaker setups. Most often demoing speakers at GC is worthless because have the stuff isn't hooked up or working when I'm in the store.

-Tom

[jsswtpmp182]

go to the gc in roseville, mn and see what they're doing... for the most part everyone that works there knows what the hell they're talking about and know how to treat a customer

[Jim vanBergen]

I tried three times to buy a piece of gear in NYC.

What a HUGE mistake.

**Customer service, customer service, customer service. **

I'm sorry, I'm sure there is someone at GC with some knowledge, but your business model does NOT work. Being hounded by some snotty nosed kid who barely made it out of Full Sail, being told that any piece of gear I'm using "should be thrown out" -referring to custom built analog gear- and being told stuff is not in stock...I'm spending my money elsewhere, thanks very much.

I'll continue to buy at Dale Pro Audio, Mercenary, Vintage King, or even Sam Ash, from account reps who show me respect and treat me like they want to be treated. But not GC. I could not find anyone intelligent or helpful. I'm sure one was in the building, probably swamped with business. But if I can't get service, I'm not walking in. I tried, three strikes and you're OUT.

By the way, if it's just strings, I'll walk to Rudy's, Matt Umanov, 30th Street, or anywhere on 48th street just to get someone who knows what they're doing, and how to treat a customer- the way YOU want to be treated. I don't care what I pay, when I want it now, I want it now, and not to be told I want something better, or that my choice sucks, or that they want my name and phone number when I buy a $150 pair of headphones. Come on!

I'm glad that most locations have "that one guy" who is ideal. This thread exemplifies the 'can do' guys in your locations who are worth waiting for, because they get it.

Good luck in the future.

JvB

[Infernal Device]

This certainly turned into another bash GC thread. I personally only go there as a last resort. I hate that place, it stands for everything that is evil about music today.

HOWEVER, the thread starter did ask what would make it better.

one fact...

GC will never change.

If they trained people enough, they would have to raise their prices. Then they would be slammed like Sweetwater.

They sell entry-level stuff to entry-level people. They keep their prices low by hiring anyone who will work for below minimum wage.

If people were trained more, they would be working WITH the gear, not pushing $99 stuff on kids.

See why it has to be that way?

(PS, keep the stupidest things you have heard at GC thread going, I love it!)

There must always be Fletcher, and GC. It keeps the universe in balance.

[plexisys]

Clearly the people working in some of your stores have no clue about proaudio. For the pay rate anyone can understand why.

Last time I was in the Atlanta store I was there to test a Neve strip, the guy tried to sell me a Prosonus strip. "The Prosonus strips are really good we sell a ton of those to pro studios I think we've only sold a few of the Neves. I don't really think they are that good." When I mentioned that I used to work for Neve. "The Neve stuffs ok but it's not the cutting edge any more. I really think you will like the Prosonus better".

If you guys were serious about being the low priced leader you would do like one local guitar store does. They let you surf prices on their computer and match the best price. I now only go to that store for anything guitar. I like the integrity.

[FFTT]

I totally agree that Guitar Center needs to completely revamp their business model.

I do not make any important purchases at Guitar Center.

The best sales people at my local GC store all left to earn a living wage and I can't blame them.

I buy manufacture direct in most cases and get better prices and service.

Frankly, most of the products Guitar Center carries are of inferior quality.

Sweat Shop reproductions at rediculous mark-ups.

The better grade products are poorly set-up and displays are poorly maintained.

I'm sure most of your bread and butter come from beginners to pro-sumer wannabes, but you should also offer professional solutions in your major hubs.

Invest in your best people and send them to factory training so they really know
what they are talking about and then pay them a living wage so they stay on with
the company.

[logichead]

The single thing I would suggest would be to streamline the checkout process. I used to go to GC thinking I could be in and out quickly, esp. when the store wasn't crowded. Everything would go smoothly, until it was time to pay. There was always a problem with the computer.....

Several times, it took 20 minutes once we got to the register.

(The security check at the door is a pain also. There may be no way around this.)

So now I go to McCabe's. Much better service, pricing is close enough, I can get in and out quickly.

Best....H

[octatonic]

I haven't read the rest of the thread but when I have been into a GC store for parts I find it a frustrating experience.
All the parts are import- nothing American made.

I have never bought a new guitar so I wouldn't be able to comment on that side of things.

Pro audio- there is usually one guy who knows something- and I just make sure I speak to *that guy*.

I actually find the GC people in the Springfield, NJ store to be really cool.
Across the road in Sam Ash I just get moody teenagers who seem to want me to punch them in the face.

[Plush]

I ONLY shop at GC for SKB cases and last minute required accessories like a caddy for an HD 24.

That's all I ever step into the store to buy.

I would never buy anything else there because it is an unprofessional environment in toto.

Top management is greedy and the low pay you offer to your salespeople is a joke.

Your whole model is broken and I will never support it.

Your management is engaged in running a schlock shop.

[dasmetre]

Originally Posted by idrinkalot

what an embarassing thread

i'm not at all embarrassed. I am happy to see that a few people have been singled out as great examples--Nice job guys, and keep up the good work!

[Sounds Great]

Originally Posted by jsswtpmp182

go to the gc in roseville, mn and see what they're doing... for the most part everyone that works there knows what the hell they're talking about and know how to treat a customer

I worked at that store. Many years ago.

[ALL*MYTEE]

Hi Eli,

You are a brave man. :)

My local GC here in Chicago is great. Lots of smart folks and even a studio owner or two on staff. Lots of very involved recording musicians. We have a GC Pro as well. (I deal mostly with the Pro Audio dept but have met and dealt with some of the managers as well).

I find them extremely willing to negotiate, which I appreciate and understand is likely a necessity for an operation of GC's size--where you have folks coming in off the street and grizzled veterans who can probably get sweetheart deals elsewhere.

On the flip side, this opens up a can of worms much like a car dealership, where people who are less comfortable negotiating can leave thinking they could have gotten a better deal or wondering if the next guy got it cheaper. (Or their friend tells them later that an online graymarket outfit in Brooklyn is selling the same item for 20% less).

One challenge with dealing in music gear (as I do myself) is that you're very close to something that people love dearly, so any of the usual "getting things done"' that most businesses get away with can be taken for insensitivity (or worse). There are a whole lot of dreams walking through a GC door on any given day.

I think the most important thing for any business where customer service is a key is for management to model the types of treatment that they want customers to receive. It's all but impossible for a company to have harsh management and great customer service--because management is what's inside and the front line employees are the face. A fake smile doesn't go very far, but when employees feel that management has their back, they can't help but feel comfortable.

If management treats the employees like they'd like the employees to treat the customers, most extra "training" and protocol--which can be very costly and anoying--can be avoided.

Here in Chicago, we have a couple big chains where the employees are ridiculously happy doing fairly bottom of the barrel work (food service)--I swear they're joking and laughing during lunch rushes. The atmosphere is contagious. I don't think such a jovial mood is right for everywhere, but it just goes to show how malleable attitudes are. Hiring the right people is obviously key as well.

If you're asking the question, you're likely one of the ones who doesn't need to know the answer.

Best of luck,

Eben

[deuc647]

I think its knowledge, i remember i went in for some cables and one sales rep was telling me about how bad ass the presonus eureka was, i was like naw im good, i got some tube pres, and he replied " but its solid state!", i had to laugh. The only thing i see your GC pushing is protools protools protools! TRUE STORY= i walked in GC one day and i had just gotten my HD24XR and was anxious to hook it up to my RME card, so i rush over and ask "where are your adat cables?" dude looked at me like i asked him the theory of quantum physics, lol. So he called everyone including the store manager and no one has any idea of what the damn thing looks like, so i got to the wall where they have everything and they had a couple their, i grabbed them and they were like are you sure those are them?, i was like yeah they are, he told me to keep the reciept just in case they were not. I say train your staff or hire at least 1 guy who knows his shyt.

[BLueROom]

I have no problems with the GC out here (Walnut Creek CA). Of course there are newbies, but I find that most of the sales guys are pretty knowledgeable. GC is what it is, consumer and prosumer products for the average musician. It is essentially Target for musicians, IMO. I don't have a problem with that. If I want expert opinions on pro audio, I wouldn't be asking home-growns at GC, but if I need some gear and know what I want, I can certainly get a fair deal there.

[LewisWu]

Originally Posted by bunnerabb

I have no need of a protocol droid.

... priceless

[Protools Guy]

I have to say that I have had nothing short of a good experience with every Guitar Center I've been in.

Full disclosure: I worked in a music store for many years, therefore I know the drill.

GC has the best prices and largest selection in just about any town I've been in.

Additionally, the salespeople that I've encountered have been very good.

Having said that, I would like to see GC carry Grem Guitars. They are American made, top quality, and affordably priced. GREM USA

[michaels]

Not to sound like a parrott but:

TRAINING TRAINING TRAINING and did I mention training!?!?!!

When I do go to GC (which is maybe twice a year now, if that) it's about a 100 mile round trip for me and when I call and ask if they have any insert snakes and I'm told "Yeah bro I'm looking at 8 of the 8 channel ones" and I get there and they're 8 channel snakes I tend to get pissed.

Even the manager didn't know what they were. He clicked away on his computer and said it showed they had 8 in stock. I figured I must not have seen them so I asked him to show them to me. He took me to the 8 channel snakes and when I pointed out these were NOT insert snakes - his response was "Well, man that's all we got", then turns around and walks off.

This was 8 months or so ago at the Littlerock store. I was so pissed I called GC corporate from the parking lot but all that accomplished was running down my cell phone battery.

When the store first opened up it was pretty cool, a few of the guys that worked there had recorded here and they knew I bought high end gear and would CALL ME (That's a lost concept!!) if they had something more or less high end returned that someone didn't want, to give me 1st shot at getting it at a pretty cool price break. I'm talking mics and stuff like that. Unfortunately they only lasted there a month or two and then the new batch of clueless sales people arrived and have been arriving ever since.

You can't develop a working relationship with people that only work there 2 months or less. I can't speak for the knowledge of GC Pro people but after all I've been thru at the Littlerock store I'd have to assume it'd be like going to Wal-Mart asking for a Wal-Mart pro.

[big country]

that would be sweet if GC sold more local boutique type stuff

I like going to a music store and saying stuff like "wtf is that"
or
"that's fukin cool"

give me a reason to go and buy strings once a week

[DRC]

I can give you one idea that might help the GC employees as much as anyone.

You know how there is a Baby Gap and a regular Gap? There should be a Teen GC and an Adult GC. I'm kidding of course but when ever I walk into GC it is such an unbearable cacophony of sonic sh*t that I honestly want to walk right back out.

Isolation rooms for the Mesas. Isolation rooms for the Fenders. Isolation rooms for the Marshalls.... you get the idea. It may make the sales floor look a lot smaller, but my God!!

I feel awful for the employees that work at GC. I really do. Every time I talk to the one guy on Halsted that I deal with I always say "I don't know how you do it man?" And this is on top of the the commission scheme and how they get paid vs. number of hours that they work that is just terrible. Do they really make enough money to take advantage of the in-house deals that they get? And when it is really busy, these guys are hustling.

As far as the employees that don't know a thing. I just tell them I'm waiting for my guy. I'll be back when he is in. That's about all you can do.

[thephatboi]

Here's how I look at it: I don't go into GC to have some guy tell me what I need; I already know that I probably know more than the 19 year old sales guy, and I almost always already know what I want, I am just looking to buy it NOW and get a good deal on it. The guys at my local GC (Oxnard, CA) are great, They have given me great deals knowing I am a professional studio owner, and a repeat customer. I and really appreciate it. I get a cut-to-the-chase kinda of treatment like:

"Hey Sean, what do you need?"

" I need a xxx."

"How about $xxx?"

"Great, I'll take it."

Done.

Although it might behoove GC to up the knowledge and understaning of some of their sales people, I don't expect them to know too much about the gear, it would be nice but I don't expect it. So I don't get mad:) I only hope they can cut me a deal, cause I already have done the research about the gear and know what I am coming in for. If you deal with them like that you will have a much better experience.

That said, I do think that if GC wants to compete with online sales in the future it would be in their own best interest to do what most have said here: train more or hire experienced guys who actually know about what they are selling. There is a definite trend with most big companies that sell technology; hire cheap fairly unskilled "techicians" or "customer support" people and hope they can do the job. Well persoally I am a bit tired of calling a company up for info and it turns out I know more than the guy reading a speil to me from some papers that I waited 20 minutes on hold for. Those companies are less likely to get my repeat business. Something to think about being a brick and mortar store.....anybody can have a website to sell stuff, anybody can hire flunkies to answer the phone and pretend they know something....how do you set your business apart from these....?

Now I have been told by some of the GC sales guys lately that new ownership of the company is going to make it possibly harder for them to cut deals and that prices may be truly set....if this happens they will probably lose me as a customer because the guys at my local GC do cut me great deals with no BS, if that changes I might as well buy online..... pass that on to the higher ups please:)

[rockstar_josh]

I'll cast another vote for training/knowledge.... I simply don't trust the opinions or rhetoric of the average GC employee. I don't know if it's the way all GC work, but one of the stores here in my area rotates employees from one department to another. SO the guy who used to try and upsell me sh*t at the parts counter (I always applauded his clever use of buzzwords) is now behind the Pro Audio counter with no clue as to what a 1/4" TRS connector is, let alone whether or not he carries Neutrik or Switchcraft. It would be great to have my questions answered by someone who I am familiar with, and I can trust. And I absolutely hate being bullsh*tted, I can smell it a mile away and I run into it at Guitar Center frequently.

Flipside (cause not all GCs are equal to me): The store in Phoenix kicks ass. The GC Pro rep is stationed there, and he's handled probably 50K from me this year, I really love working with him. If on the rare occasion he doesn't know something, he finds a guy in his store or another local store that can help. I'm also sure that he has much larger clientele than us, but he treats me with just as much urgency and respect as a million-dollar client. I also like the staff at that store. They also carry more pro-level, high quality necessities (obviously, it's where GC Pro is at) so I know I can pop in and get bulk Mogami cable, or bulk comnnectors, or any little things that the normal GC doesn't have. I think if more concessions like that were met in a broad sweep of stores, there would be less complaints. I'm not saying GC Pro at every store, but a level of product and one knowledgeable guy that can save the small percentage of professional customers some grief. Just a [long-winded]thought.

And thanks for asking - it may be a major task to make a big change, but really the thought is appreciated!

[BLueROom]

Originally Posted by DRC

I can give you one idea that might help the GC employees as much as anyone.

You know how there is a Baby Gap and a regular Gap? There should be a Teen GC and an Adult GC. I'm kidding of course but when ever I walk into GC it is such an unbearable cacophony of sonic sh*t that I honestly want to walk right back out.

Isolation rooms for the Mesas. Isolation rooms for the Fenders. Isolation rooms for the Marshalls.... you get the idea. It may make the sales floor look a lot smaller, but my God!!

I feel awful for the employees that work at GC. I really do. Every time I talk to the one guy on Halsted that I deal with I always say "I don't know how you do it man?" And this is on top of the the commission scheme and how they get paid vs. number of hours that they work that is just terrible. Do they really make enough money to take advantage of the in-house deals that they get? And when it is really busy, these guys are hustling.

As far as the employees that don't know a thing. I just tell them I'm waiting for my guy. I'll be back when he is in. That's about all you can do.

GC and GCPro

[GroovnD313]

Don't let any salesman ever say......

"Why do you want that?"

[GroovnD313]

Oh ya almost forgot. "Pro Audio" dosen't stock TT cables!!!?? What!

[kittonian]

I wanted to respond because I was the initial poster in this thread talking about an issue I had last night at GC in Cleveland.

Eli really means what he says here about treating customers correctly and truly taking care of people. He PM'd me, gave me his phone number and asked me to give him a call if I was willing to let him try to make this right. I called him this morning and he has been very prompt in returning phone calls and has not only taken care of the entire situation but instead of me having to go to my local store and pickup the shipment, he is sending it right to the studio.

Now certainly I carry high-end boutique studio gear but with regards to purchasing guitars I just wanted to note that I have found my new "go-to" guy. It was nice that I was able to return the goodwill by helping him out a bit on the high-end pro audio side of things based on a few questions he had regarding gear.

Thanks Eli. You rock.