Part of the solution---if you shop at Guitar Center, read this

[dasmetre]

Originally Posted by Thonex

Bingo. That is the single biggest pain in the @ss for me. I feel like I have to haggle every time I go in there. The sales turnover is so high I can't establish a lasting relationship with someone who knows how not to insult me by taking just a couple of bucks off list.

So... I found another avenue... when I go there they know I've done my research... they give me a great price break to start off with.. and they remember that I get a production tax rate. Basically... they are professionals.

T

I have heard a lot of negative things about this aspect of our business, and not just in this thread. Addressing this publicly is very challenging, because I want to show support for both sides. At the end of the day, though, I will focus my energies on service, knowledge, and customer experience--because that is what is important to me. When we lose focus on the gear, which we are all passionate about, we lose sight of why we got into this business in the first place.

I'm gonna ramble--

I had dinner at Ruth's Chris for the first time on December 17. It was expensive--but worth it due to the service we got and the quality of the food. We had a bus server, a food server, the head waiter (my french is terrible ) and a floor manager all come by and thank us for dining with them. I watched as the bus servers cleaned and set the tables. One of them set a glass down and almost turned away, but went back and held the glass up to the light. He polished the one tiny water spot away and set the glass back down.

That's why the place is expensive. Because they have much higher standards than anyone else. My $30 ribeye was worth $30.

I want to approach my business in that way.

[The1andonly]

Just give us better pricing...i dont know about you but 95% percent of the time i am able to get a better price buying in amazon or in sweetwater.com that in the Guitar Center....the other day I went to the store trying to get a Shure SM7B (the store in Union Square NYC) and all the kids looked at me as if I was retarded....I wouldnt mind this if the pricing was better than anywhere else but it is not....you just happen to be more accessible...and i guess there's a price for that........which is usually the same as paying for a delivery....

[Jake Dempsey]

One more thing I'd like to add. (other than my one and only experience with GC being a very positive one)

I worked music retail for 6 years. You have to see things from the kid at GC's perspective. The shop I worked at was mom & pop. I can't imagine what you'd have to put up with working at a busy GC. The constant white noise of 17 dudes whacking away on Ibanez's and Mesa's, the steady flow of guys with chips on their shoulders, etc. It's hard to be attentive and professional all the time in those conditions. Especially when you're working 50 hours a week at one of these things and you have to work your tail off to achieve a slightly over minimum wage living. It's not easy. I know. I was gung ho for the first few years, and then it just sucked... every day. Day after day. So I moved on to bigger and better things.

My point is that the kid helping you out at GC is human after all. Not an all knowing, guitar selling robot. Treat people with respect and they will almost always return the favor. Remember that you are one of 100s of people your GC rep will talk to in a day. Smile. Shake hands. Be respectful. It goes a long way. These guys have to deal with an incomprehensible amount of ******bags every day.

Edited to add: usage of the word "******" is prohibited here?!

[BrettMorello]

Originally Posted by Jake Dempsey

One more thing I'd like to add. (other than my one and only experience with GC being a very positive one)

I worked music retail for 6 years. You have to see things from the kid at GC's perspective. The shop I worked at was mom & pop. I can't imagine what you'd have to put up with working at a busy GC. The constant white noise of 17 dudes whacking away on Ibanez's and Mesa's, the steady flow of guys with chips on their shoulders, etc. It's hard to be attentive and professional all the time in those conditions. Especially when you're working 50 hours a week at one of these things and you have to work your tail off to achieve a slightly over minimum wage living. It's not easy. I know. I was gung ho for the first few years, and then it just sucked... every day. Day after day. So I moved on to bigger and better things.

My point is that the kid helping you out at GC is human after all. Not an all knowing, guitar selling robot. Treat people with respect and they will almost always return the favor. Remember that you are one of 100s of people your GC rep will talk to in a day. Smile. Shake hands. Be respectful. It goes a long way. These guys have to deal with an incomprehensible amount of ******bags every day.

Edited to add: usage of the word "******" is prohibited here?!

Kudos to this. Being from Europe; I never visited a GC. But when I go into a music store, I always feel a form of sympathy for young people working there. Horrible noise of wannabe musicians testing their instruments way too loud, and just a shitloads of questions you have to deal with.

I also know several sales people I am really pissed about giving wrong information on purpose just to cash in their sale, but in every store I go, I start with giving the people there the benefit of the doubt.

[dasmetre]

Originally Posted by Jake Dempsey

One more thing I'd like to add. (other than my one and only experience with GC being a very positive one)

I worked music retail for 6 years. You have to see things from the kid at GC's perspective. The shop I worked at was mom & pop. I can't imagine what you'd have to put up with working at a busy GC. The constant white noise of 17 dudes whacking away on Ibanez's and Mesa's, the steady flow of guys with chips on their shoulders, etc. It's hard to be attentive and professional all the time in those conditions. Especially when you're working 50 hours a week at one of these things and you have to work your tail off to achieve a slightly over minimum wage living. It's not easy. I know. I was gung ho for the first few years, and then it just sucked... every day. Day after day. So I moved on to bigger and better things.

My point is that the kid helping you out at GC is human after all. Not an all knowing, guitar selling robot. Treat people with respect and they will almost always return the favor. Remember that you are one of 100s of people your GC rep will talk to in a day. Smile. Shake hands. Be respectful. It goes a long way. These guys have to deal with an incomprehensible amount of ******bags every day.

Edited to add: usage of the word "******" is prohibited here?!

Thanks for the support!

Eli

[dasmetre]

This thread has been quiet for a while, but I still want to improve my store! Keep the feedback coming!

Eli

[PMoshay]

Listen to what the customer is saying, ...... Then MOST IMPORTANTLY ......... QUALIFY the customer by asking what they are doing and what they have already.

I have had guys try to sell me stuff that would have no use in my world, if they asked or listened to what i was doing, we could have eliminated this embarrassing step.

[Kronos147]

I worked for GC in the early '90s. I was the manager of Key/Pro Audio at the Dallas store for a while under Randy Singleton and Jim Moon. Employee #1799 (so put it on a sale and let me get some commision... lol).

I moved to L.A. after that. As I was leaving town I was ripped off. I lost a lot of clothes! (*&^$#* jerk) and showed up to town pretty broke.

That idiot of a manager (forgot his name) with the big ass blob of scarred extra skin between his eyes fired me after a month because "my numbers were not up... you are supposed to be this big shot from Dallas..."

Chris Walsh was there at the time, nice guy and I have seen him since (when he was with Martinsound) and I hope he is doing well. Tim Miller was the department manager back then and everyone just went to him and he did not T.O., so it was hard to get a sale away from him.

Basically, back to the original question, the GC employees are supposed to be an asset. Hire them well, train them well, treat them well, and your stores will be a better experience. Whenever I do something "quick" out here with G.C. Sherman Oaks I often meet with people very untrained. I walk outside and call Robb Zinn and walk back in.

I can say that between the time I was there and now, the single greatest thing you did was develop the GC Pro group. Too bad it did not happen when I worked for GC.

[manthe]

I can tell you this. I know A LOT of musicians, 'recordists', performers, VO people, engineers, producers, etc, etc, etc. here in Central FL. Every last one of them, at one time or another, has done business with GC. I have too. BUT, ever since some water-brain at corporate decided that GC would no longer 'negotiate' or give price breaks, EVERY SINGLE LAST ONE OF THEM THAT I'VE TALKED TO (INCLUDING MYSELF) HAS 100% QUIT GOING TO GC.......100%!!

Just sayin'...

[dasmetre]

Originally Posted by manthe

I can tell you this. I know A LOT of musicians, 'recordists', performers, VO people, engineers, producers, etc, etc, etc. here in Central FL. Every last one of them, at one time or another, has done business with GC. I have too. BUT, ever since some water-brain at corporate decided that GC would no longer 'negotiate' or give price breaks, EVERY SINGLE LAST ONE OF THEM THAT I'VE TALKED TO (INCLUDING MYSELF) HAS 100% QUIT GOING TO GC.......100%!!

Just sayin'...

That's disappointing to hear. What was so dissatisfying about our pricing? I'd like to be able to utilize your feedback in improving what we do, and that would be great information.

I already know what our viewpoint is on the subject, but having some comparison would be great.

Thanks!
Eli

[manthe]

Originally Posted by dasmetre

That's disappointing to hear. What was so dissatisfying about our pricing? I'd like to be able to utilize your feedback in improving what we do, and that would be great information.

I already know what our viewpoint is on the subject, but having some comparison would be great.

Thanks!
Eli

Your pricing is not different than any other McMusic Store out there. Some of the giant stores will still bargain or give good deals to good customers (Sweetwater, 123...even Sam Ash will cut small breaks!). The rigid, NO BUDGE policy is possibly the stupidest move GC could have made in terms of:

A - being able to build a relationship with a customer - I can ANYWHERE and pay full retail and deal with people that have cursory gear knowledge. Even if your staff was better trained, what incentive would there be? You offer nothing in terms of service and support (officially) that I can not get anywhere else that I pay full retail. Being a regular customer means ABSOLUTELY NOTHING now. I get nothing more or less than any 12 year old that walks in twice a year to buy sticks or strings.

B - Being the least bit competitive with any retailer. I covered this a bit above, but truthfully - you sell the same stuff for the same price as anywhere else. Whether I pay tax locally, or shipping online, it is the same...EXCEPT, there are several online retailers that I can call and get some scratch taken off the top. If I build a good relationship with some, the discounts get deeper. I HAD this with GC, then they gave me the middle finger. This was extremely frustrating after spending quite a while developing some good relationships and spending an ass-load of money!

Face it, without TOP NOTCH service, support and expertise, GC can offer me absolutely nothing aside from a price break. Now that i can't even get that there, I will (and DO) go elsewhere.

You would cringe if you knew how much I spent at GC last year. I have not set foot in the store now since after last Thanksgiving. Even with the great discounts you gave me, GC still made a fortune off of me, alone last year. That is over...as it is with every one I know that used to shop there. You've taken the single most important tool your salespeople had away from them and left them to deal with the angry, shafted regulars! You think we're angry and disappointed....talk to your sales staff!

I'm sure your stores will do fine with kids buying their first Epiphones or Ibanezes or Ludwigs, but don't expect loyal customers and relationships with professionals without either price breaks or pro service.

[barryjohns]

First, I am not a fan of GC, that said, I have never paid the sticker price for anything I have bought there!
In the last year I would say I have spent about 10k at GC.

I always get what I am buying out the door for less than I can get online. Including tax!

[manthe]

Originally Posted by barryjohns

frat, ian not a fan of GC, that said, I have never paid the sticker price for anything I have bought there!

In the last year I would say I have spent about 10k at GC.

I always gay what I am buying out the door for less than I can get online. Including tax!

Not any more...new corporate policy - NO MORE PRICE BREAKS! May not have filtered down to your area yet, but it will soon. I never paid retail there either.

[barryjohns]

Originally Posted by manthe

Not any more...new corporate policy - NO MORE PRICE BREAKS! May not have filtered down to your area yet, but it will soon. I never paid retail there either.

It hasn't yet in the last few weeks. I bought a Les Paul there a couple of weeks ago, and a Vox AC30 Amp, about 2 months ago. Got great deals on both, better than I could get online, out the door.

[jamsmith]

Whoa! What a thread! I buy most everything these days from Guitar Center. I have 2 in my area (Atlanta). First, they have all the gear that interests me for the most part. I can come in everyday and play every guitar on the wall all day until I find what I want and no one is going to harrass me. When I am ready to buy, the sale guy is going get my stuff together and get me rung up and out the door. If I have a problem, I can go right back. The price is right and the better price is not sitting the in the room I am standing it.

I walked in with a very small budget for a practice PA. $300. In needed a mixer/amp, 2 speakers, 2 mics with stands. 3 guys brainstormed and figured out what to get together for me. I walked out with a Kustom PA and 2 Audio Technica mics and stands.

One thing I will tell you folks because I know a guy who does this. He buys Chinese knockoffs - Fender, Shure, etc, etc. A lot of this stuff is real good imitiation indistinguishable from the originals. He sells stuff online. His prices are lower than Guitar Center. Just so you know, that lower price may get you want you want, but its always the real thing. And it may not last like it either!

[dylansmale]

DON'T TRY AND SELL WHAT THE COMPANY IS PAYING YOU TO SELL!!! ****ING GUITAR CENTER TRYING TO FOOL US KIDS. DON'T PRETEND LIKE YOU DON'T PULL THAT BULL SHIT EITHER...BITCH...haha

[dbbubba]

Well. at least that Kustom P.A. they sold you was vintage, right?

Seriously, the days of professionals selling pro gear to other professionals is long gone.
I used to use local pro recording equipment dealers like Southwest Pro Audio, Studio Tech Supply, Frontier Audio and even Arnold and Morgan in the day.
Those level of dealers are long gone, but so is professional equipment for the most part!
You now have people selling the modern equivalent of TASCAM Portastudios trying fathom professional buyer's needs... should they venture into GC.

Fortunately, we have still companies like Sound Productions here in Dallas where the salesmen are pros and they sell pro gear. They know what is what.
Most of what we buy is foreign to the guys at GC.
They don't even stock most of what we use, so why even go in there?

I will occasionally pick up a patch cord, but most of them are HOSA trash.
If you service professional clients you can't have molded cables failing like HOSA junk.
I build ALL of my cabling and we have very few store bought cables.

I might buy picks or strings at GC, but I get a better deal at a store like Larry Morgan Music.
I generally go to GC if I am bored and need to kill time... maybe I'll buy something, but usually not.

You'd think that GC would see why MARS failed and correct a few things.
GC and MARS are the same except GC has more stores to spread the misery around.
Many of the GC stores would not survive if they were not supported by a national chain.

[dasmetre]

Originally Posted by manthe

Your pricing is not different than any other McMusic Store out there. Some of the giant stores will still bargain or give good deals to good customers (Sweetwater, 123...even Sam Ash will cut small breaks!). The rigid, NO BUDGE policy is possibly the stupidest move GC could have made in terms of:

A - being able to build a relationship with a customer - I can ANYWHERE and pay full retail and deal with people that have cursory gear knowledge. Even if your staff was better trained, what incentive would there be? You offer nothing in terms of service and support (officially) that I can not get anywhere else that I pay full retail. Being a regular customer means ABSOLUTELY NOTHING now. I get nothing more or less than any 12 year old that walks in twice a year to buy sticks or strings.

B - Being the least bit competitive with any retailer. I covered this a bit above, but truthfully - you sell the same stuff for the same price as anywhere else. Whether I pay tax locally, or shipping online, it is the same...EXCEPT, there are several online retailers that I can call and get some scratch taken off the top. If I build a good relationship with some, the discounts get deeper. I HAD this with GC, then they gave me the middle finger. This was extremely frustrating after spending quite a while developing some good relationships and spending an ass-load of money!

Face it, without TOP NOTCH service, support and expertise, GC can offer me absolutely nothing aside from a price break. Now that i can't even get that there, I will (and DO) go elsewhere.

You would cringe if you knew how much I spent at GC last year. I have not set foot in the store now since after last Thanksgiving. Even with the great discounts you gave me, GC still made a fortune off of me, alone last year. That is over...as it is with every one I know that used to shop there. You've taken the single most important tool your salespeople had away from them and left them to deal with the angry, shafted regulars! You think we're angry and disappointed....talk to your sales staff!

I'm sure your stores will do fine with kids buying their first Epiphones or Ibanezes or Ludwigs, but don't expect loyal customers and relationships with professionals without either price breaks or pro service.

Thanks for the feedback! I am in full agreement regarding the Pro Service you mentioned, which is why I dive headfirst into the suggestions I get here. I've kinda made it a personal mission to get as much information as I can from you guys in order to help improve what we do.

Thanks!
Eli

[JEGG]

See product on GC web site. Site says it's in stock.
Call store to see if it's in stock.
1. "What? Hey, man, I can't hear ya. Can ya say that again? It's really noisy in here."
2. "What is it? I've never heard of that."
3. "You saw it on the site?"
4. "Where'd ya look, I can't find it?"
5. "What exactly is it?"
6. "I don't know, dude."
7. *************************"Dude, we don't have internet access, I can't check the site"*************************************

[You can't look at the site?]

"No, dude, our computers aren't hooked up to the site."

[Where were you looking before?]

8. "I was juz entering the number you gave me, dude."

9. "You could call tomorrow, maybe early or something, I think that's when the manager will be here."

10. [The manager will be there at that time?]

11. "Well, I dunno, really."

Guitar Center
2633 N Halsted St
Chicago, IL 60614
(773) 248-2808

[JEGG]

Why does a $25 "accessory" everywhere else cost $59.95 at GC?

Hey, it's 15% under the list price.

[JEGG]

Is it really necessary to have an SPL so high that it's dangerous and painful to be in the store-apart from being unable to communicate with the hearing and attention impaired store personnel?

[tonymission]

The worst thing about Guitar Center is that ... back, when I needed a job, you clowns wouldn't hire me.

I used to be in there all the time, helping all the customers in there ... showing them how to use stuff, gettin people excited about gear from demonstrations ... hell, because IM excited by gear!! Jammin on the keys, getting crowds build up behind me... rockin a full beat on the MPCs in 3 minutes ... making people ask questions and get excited.

I've sold so much equipment for that store (I used to work in sales so it's natural) it's not even funny... the manager would always be like "uh ya, lemme um... why dont you just fill out an ap online?"

And before anyone says anything ... Im good looking (gorgeous actually har har!!!), well kept, articulate, energetic, etc ... but I was viewed by the folks at my local GC as a threat to their sales commissions. My friend worked there and every time he was like "yall are crazy for not begging Tony to work here", they'd come up with some stupid reason why they didnt need anyone -- and then hire a 22 year "YO I MAKE BEATS DOG REASON ALL DAY SHAWTAY" the next week.

Let's be honest. The theme here is that most GC employees are idiots who're motivated by the wrong things. If you hired the right people who are just natural at sales from an honesty, loyalty, customer, knowledge standpoint ... get rid of commission all together while using that excess to actually hire competent employees with industry experience outside of making ableton live house mashups then you're supporting more almost-there musicians, your customers are getting EXACTLY what they want/need and you don't have a bunch of people on the internet bitching about the store all the time.

Seems like an easy solution. The difficult part is implementation, change of internal mentality and reversal of reputation.

Good luck.

[Audball]

Originally Posted by manthe

Not any more...new corporate policy - NO MORE PRICE BREAKS! May not have filtered down to your area yet, but it will soon. I never paid retail there either.

If this is true (sorry, haven't read the thread in a while - is there any post # substantiating this?), that's a big shame... While I've always had a good experience at the North Austin store and have an excellent relationship with a great salesman in the Drums department, the price break I could get always made the decision to shop at GC a no-brainer.

With that gone... hrm.. tough call. I'd like to show thanks for the sales service I've received in the past and continue to shop there, BUT I can get equally good service from other more focussed stores (just bass stuff at one place, just drums at another) under a couple miles away from GC, and the environments are audibly quieter, making them a more pleasant listening and shopping experience.

For most equipment that I'd buy in the future, since there's slim chance that I'd be able to try before I buy at any store at all anyway - GC or not (custom shell pack, uncommon cymbal diameter, higher end recording equipment, cabinets GC doesn't carry, etc.), there's now a higher chance I'll order online -- especially since it's incredibly easy to research and get a multitude of owner/user experiences and opinions online these days.

What kind of benefit could GC actually offer that would make it worthwhile? I personally can't think of much...

[shanabit]

I never had ONE salesguy that knew jack about anything. Only interested in pushing the wares but could NEVER answer BASIC questions I had.

Same for SamAsh.

I dont shop at either now. They both suck IMO

[Jake Dempsey]

Usually, retailer's cost is 1/2 of MSRP. Most any retailer will take 25-30% above cost. They try for 35-40%.

[dasmetre]

Originally Posted by JEGG

Why does a $25 "accessory" everywhere else cost $59.95 at GC?

Hey, it's 15% under the list price.

Which accessory would you be speaking of? I'm happy to look into it.
Thanks!
Eli

[dasmetre]

Originally Posted by JEGG

See product on GC web site. Site says it's in stock.
Call store to see if it's in stock.
1. "What? Hey, man, I can't hear ya. Can ya say that again? It's really noisy in here."
2. "What is it? I've never heard of that."
3. "You saw it on the site?"
4. "Where'd ya look, I can't find it?"
5. "What exactly is it?"
6. "I don't know, dude."
7. *************************"Dude, we don't have internet access, I can't check the site"*************************************

[You can't look at the site?]

"No, dude, our computers aren't hooked up to the site."

[Where were you looking before?]

8. "I was juz entering the number you gave me, dude."

9. "You could call tomorrow, maybe early or something, I think that's when the manager will be here."

10. [The manager will be there at that time?]

11. "Well, I dunno, really."

Guitar Center
2633 N Halsted St
Chicago, IL 60614
(773) 248-2808

Ouch. Not what I like to see. Sorry about that.

Eli

[Dean7]

Well, in Oregon the Guitar Centers are better than pretty much all of the competition. I've had great experiences with GC. They aren't pushy, they are willing to bend the rules if they need to (I bought a e609 silver and hated it and they said I could return it even though it's against policy because I promised I had just used the mic on guitar cabs) and they have OK prices.

My experiences at locally owned stores (and I have been to a LOT of stores in the Portland area) have been terrible. I've literally gone in to a store where I just wanted to make a purchase (I was trying to buy some Fralin pickups), but the guy behind the counter was such a moron and such an arse I had to give up and leave without my pickups. When you're like "so what's the difference in tonal qualities between x and y?" and the guy is ignoring you because his friend is farting and it's funny you know it's not a good customer service experience. :) In another local store (people here call it a**hole music... you Portlanders know what I'm talking about!) I had a guy tell me "look, I don't give a f*** unless my name is on the invoice".

So, my point is: I don't know about other states, but in Oregon you guys are doing great. I don't care how much the guys at your store know about x. I probably know more about what I want anyway, and ANY purchase that I make I do a ton of research before I ever set foot in your store. What I REALLY want is somebody that's not a complete jerk to facilitate my testing/buying process. Because, seriously, I don't trust somebody else to tell me what's what.

However, that's just me, an