Another price fixing thread...

[Dr Gruv]

Originally Posted by d2ba

I have just purchased one from Alto Music.
They are a great dealer. Please be aware that the price will always be $495 (There never will be a street price on the Duet as Apogee are very strict with their dealers on this product)

email Thomas
Proaudio@altomusic.com

THAT'S PRICE FIXING AND ILLEGAL - who told you this?

[Dr Gruv]

After the manufacturing line is up and running - my guess is that the price should reach between $396 - $420 on a $495 item in a competitive market place. The setting of a price for a product in a retail marketplace is illegal.

From WIKI:
Price fixing is an agreement between business competitors to sell the same product or service at the same price. In general, it is an agreement intended to ultimately push the price of a product as high as possible, leading to profits for all the sellers. Price-fixing can also involve any agreement to fix, peg, discount or stabilize prices. The principal feature is any agreement on price, whether express or implied. For the buyer, meanwhile, the practice results in a phenomenon similar to price gouging.

[Silver Sonya]

Originally Posted by Dr Gruv

After the manufacturing line is up and running - the price should reach $396 - $420 on a $495 item in the market place. If this does not happen then there is a good case for price fixing. THAT IS ILLEGAL. PERIOD.

From WIKI:
Price fixing is an agreement between business competitors to sell the same product or service at the same price. In general, it is an agreement intended to ultimately push the price of a product as high as possible, leading to profits for all the sellers. Price-fixing can also involve any agreement to fix, peg, discount or stabilize prices. The principal feature is any agreement on price, whether express or implied. For the buyer, meanwhile, the practice results in a phenomenon similar to price gouging.

Um, no.
- c

[Dr Gruv]

Originally Posted by Silver Sonya

Um, no.
- c

Why?

[Vocalvoodoo]

Before this even turns into some big debate, people are assuming d2ba's info is 100% correct. Who knows if it is. Not to discount you d2ba, because you might be right, but just because someone says something on the internet doesn't make it true.

Anyway, for the price to stick right around $495 wouldn't be too strange would it? How often do you see a current Mac priced much lower than the retail price? You may see deals around $100 or so cheaper, but the price is the price for the most part.

[Dr Gruv]

Originally Posted by Vocalvoodoo

Before this even turns into some big debate, people are assuming d2ba's info is 100% correct. Who knows if it is. Not to discount you d2ba, because you might be right, but just because someone says something on the internet doesn't make it true.

Anyway, for the price to stick right around $495 wouldn't be too strange would it? How often do you see a current Mac priced much lower than the retail price? You may see deals around $100 or so cheaper, but the price is the price for the most part.

agreed, if no one is saying to price xyz unit at a certain price.

[Realtugs]

Originally Posted by Dr Gruv

THAT'S PRICE FIXING AND ILLEGAL - who told you this?

Don't buy it!

If there's a margin...somebody will start to shave it to sell more units than so and so.

Chill out with the accusations.

[Dr Gruv]

Originally Posted by Realtugs

Don't buy it!

If there's a margin...somebody will start to shave it to sell more units than so and so.

Chill out with the accusations.

Maybe we should just download music and not pay for it? Is that illegal?

I'm tired of companies - retail and others - that think they can take advantage of the consumer by illegally setting price.

If it's illegal - then it still is illegal - even if you don't like it.

Let the market act as it should - i would guess that margins should come out be $396 to $420.75 and that is a generous business model. (for the retail store) We can get into costs if you want.

-m

[thermos]

Wasn't there just recently some long thread on here about how it is now perfectly legal to price fix? And have you ever found a brand new apple computer advertised for less than full list?

[Vocalvoodoo]

Anyone else have any impressions of their Duet? Mine doesn't come until tomorrow, so I need to live vicariously through other peoples stories. :)

Anymore audio samples?

BTW, I payed $5 more than list, but hey, I get a coffee mug with it!

Actually, this was my first purchase from Mercenary, and I'm really pleased that I went with them. Nothing like calling and have a guy talk to you and sound like a fellow audio guy, not a sales person trying to push some crap on you.

[Realtugs]

Originally Posted by Dr Gruv

We can get into costs if you want.

-m

Sure...

Show me Apogee's cost to research, develop, manufacture, package, ship to suppliers and market the Duet per unit.

Do you use a Mac? What do you do when you want a new one? Believe me, I'd rather pay $420.75 than $495.00...who wouldn't? But I'd also like to see Apogee stick around and continue to make fantastic products. If it sounds as good as people are saying, it is VERY easily worth $495.00. Cough up...or get something that lists for $500 and streets for $420.

They are obviously exposing themselves to a new market with the Duet. If margins are tight to produce a no compromise product...so be it.

[Dr Gruv]

As I understood it - the intent of the supreme court law 5-4 decision this past summer was to allow manufacturers to set minimum retail prices - as to not allow a retail store to price an item below XYZ price - thusly ensuring fair costs to retailers. This reverses a 1911 Supreme Court ruling.

But that is not what is going to happen.

Unfortunately, in reality, this law is going to RASIE prices IMHO (google it - many different opinions)

Let's take an example where you, as a retail business, could come up with a cost savings measure, and would thusly be in a better position to lower your price and get more market share. You will be UNABLE to lower your price IF you are at the minimum set by the manufacturer.

There's a lot on this subject out there an it is tough to see the ramifications yet...

As to the apple pricing - I don't know enough about it to comment.

-m

[Dr Gruv]

Originally Posted by Realtugs

Sure...

Show me Apogee's cost to research, develop, manufacture, package, ship to suppliers and market the Duet per unit.

Do you use a Mac? What do you do when you want a new one? Believe me, I'd rather pay $420.75 than $495.00...who wouldn't? But I'd also like to see Apogee stick around and continue to make fantastic products. If it sounds as good as people are saying, it is VERY easily worth $495.00. Cough up...or get something that lists for $500 and streets for $420.

They are obviously exposing themselves to a new market with the Duet. If margins are tight to produce a no compromise product...so be it.

I am talking about the cost of MI goods - verses the selling price from a retail store and their profit margin.

I have no idea what apogee's costs are ;) I'm SURE they aren't losing money and have set a price they see that they can manufacture and deliver to retailers for profit. I'm talking about the retail profit - verse the cost of the manufactured good.

Still want to get into the costs - gonna upset quite a few... ;) YOWZA!

What does it cost? How much are these stores making?
What is their business plan for their acceptable margins?

[Dr Gruv]

off to the gym

i'll check in later...

best

I'm not trying to start something - just think about it.

Illegal is Illegal - that's all...

[Realtugs]

Originally Posted by Dr Gruv

What does it cost? How much are these stores making?
What is their business plan for their acceptable margins?

Research that before you buy from somebody?

There is a MAP- Minimum Advertised Price. They can't advertise it lower than that. They CAN sell it for lower than that. I buy stuff below MAP all the time.

Anyway...buy it or don't...your choice.

[Dr Gruv]

Originally Posted by Realtugs

Research that before you buy from somebody?

There is a MAP- Minimum Advertised Price. They can't advertise it lower than that. They CAN sell it for lower than that. I buy stuff below MAP all the time.

Anyway...buy it or don't...your choice.

You don't need to research much - get a calculator.

I'm talking about the selling price - the market place, competition, and supply and demand among retail stores should set the price

[Realtugs]

Originally Posted by Dr Gruv

You don't need to research much - get a calculator.

I'm talking about the selling price - if the selling price does not go down in a few months after demand - then its illegal - plain and simple

Right-O.

So for now...do you want the thing? Have you got $495.00? Or...you can give Mercenary $500.00 and they'll give you a Duet AND a coffee cup!

Now where's me calculator..?

[Dr Gruv]

Originally Posted by Realtugs

Right-O.

So for now...do you want the thing? Have you got $495.00? Or...you can give Mercenary $500.00 and they'll give you a Duet AND a coffee cup!

Now where's me calculator..?

golly ;) $500 - $5 whole dollars over the $495 manufacturers retail price and a FREE coffee cup! wow - how could i resist such a offer

[Vocalvoodoo]

Originally Posted by Dr Gruv

golly ;) $500 - $5 whole dollars over the $495 manufacturers retail price and a FREE coffee cup! wow - how could i resist such a offer

I only mentioned that because all this talk about price fixing which has turned an otherwise cool thread into something quite silly based on something that someone said that hasn't even been confirmed. My intent was to come across with a somewhat sarcastic. Guess that didn't come across.

As far as the coffee mug/Duet price, I think you have the wrong idea. They don't do 95's and 99's on prices, so the price was $500, rather than $495 and they throw in the coffee mug as a kind of funny way to make up for the $5. In any case, it was quite a good deal considering Mercenary doubles the manufactures warranty. That's worth $5 if you ask me.

So anyone else get theirs yet? Opinions?

[Duardo]

After the manufacturing line is up and running - the price should reach $396 - $420 on a $495 item in the market place. If this does not happen then there is a good case for price fixing.

What makes you think that? How do you know that, instead of setting an artificially inflated retail price like most manufacturers do, Apogee didn't set their dealer cost so that the Duet would street and retail for the same amount? Retail prices are meaningless...as others have mentioned, almost all Apple products sell for full retail almost anywhere (which may even explain why the Duet sells for its retail price as well...it is an Apple accessory in a way). So do Bose products, as I understand it, and there are certainly others as well...ADAM speakers do too. You don't know how much Apogee sells the Duet to dealers for so how do you know how much it "should" cost?

I'm talking about the selling price - if the selling price does not go down in a few months after demand - then its illegal - plain and simple

What gave you that idea? If a dealer pays a certain amount for a product, and sells it for a certain amount over that amount, and people are willing to pay that amount a month after its release, and a year, and five years, then why would that be illegal?

Sure, there are products that go down in price rapidly after the buzz wears off, and there are products that don't...going back to ADAM as an example, for as long as I've been aware of them they've sold for their retail price, and those prices have gone UP over the years...is that illegal?

[Dr Gruv]

Originally Posted by Duardo

What makes you think that? How do you know that, instead of setting an artificially inflated retail price like most manufacturers do, Apogee didn't set their dealer cost so that the Duet would street and retail for the same amount? Retail prices are meaningless...as others have mentioned, almost all Apple products sell for full retail almost anywhere (which may even explain why the Duet sells for its retail price as well...it is an Apple accessory in a way). So do Bose products, as I understand it, and there are certainly others as well...ADAM speakers do too. You don't know how much Apogee sells the Duet to dealers for so how do you know how much it "should" cost?


What gave you that idea? If a dealer pays a certain amount for a product, and sells it for a certain amount over that amount, and people are willing to pay that amount a month after its release, and a year, and five years, then why would that be illegal?

Sure, there are products that go down in price rapidly after the buzz wears off, and there are products that don't...going back to ADAM as an example, for as long as I've been aware of them they've sold for their retail price, and those prices have gone UP over the years...is that illegal?

Cost of products in the Music Industry are generally A or B marked items. Electronics going more towards the B - keyboards, drum machines etc..

Fixing the retail price is illegal - period. end of story.

Look at it this way...

Do the grocery retail stores in your area, all charge the same for a gallon of milk?

Do you pay the same amount at every retail gas station for gas?

why?

Competition from retail stores - should set the price in the market.

[dlmorley]

I'm going to wait until Guitar Centre sells it for $199 blowout...

Seriously, why are we even talking about price fixing????
It is $495. It may come down if Apogee can produce enough and sell enough. It may not. I see apogee stuff at sweetwater list $1999 selling price $1799 which implies to me that apogee DON'T have a "price fixing" system in place.
A new product JUST on the market for a killer price and there is hardly any stock. I'd say they have their pricing right and WHY would a store start selling units cheaper, when they can sell all they have at the retail price?

This is how others do it.
List price $499
Sells for $299


Maybe Apogee need to compete with them on price...
If Apogee set a list of $799 and street of $499 then everyone would be happy

[Jay Fitz]

Originally Posted by Dr Gruv

Fixing the retail price is illegal - period. end of story.

.

Not quite true any longer....

High court allows price-fixing by manufacturers - The Boston Globe

[Dr Gruv]

Originally Posted by Jay Fitz

Not quite true any longer....

High court allows price-fixing by manufacturers - The Boston Globe

Check my previous post - as to what I thought about the intent of the supreme court 5-4 vote over the summer.

You will find many different opinions and articles that support both side of the 'price fixing' issue and this new law.

It is unknown, as it is so new (July), how it will effect the marketplace. As I stated before, IMHO is that the unintended (intended) consequences are going to raise the prices of goods for everyone.

Reversing a 1911 decision is what we have now in the supreme court. (but that's another discussion entirely) Let's not go the political route.

I would hope and expect to see market forces control price as it has been in the past.

[Egopanic]

Why don`t you guys open a thread for your price-fixing discussion?