Stop buying "Redneck"made...

[Dirty Halo]

Oh? Ya don't don't like being called a red-neck? You from the South and automatically a "Redneck?" So, you're dumb, huh? Must be.

Well, so goes for the same ""Chinese-made" this and that type statements.

Enough already.

This kind of tired thinking was already tired back when things were "Japanese-made" and so on... Kind of like my Jupiters!

Now, I agree with humanitarian issues at play, but let's be honest, I see a majority of these statements as just ignorant lump-sum blatherings.

Most of us are "supposed" to be "artists" with open minds, can we start acting like it?

Food for thought, if you go for that kind of thing; thinking, that is

-a

[octatonic]

There are some great Chinese made products.

I think pretty much everything Groove Tubes produces now is being assembled in China including the Vipre and Glory Comp.

There are more than a few crap products though- which is where the bias comes from.
Chinese made guitars (including Squiers) really are not up to par though.
But for $150, what do you expect.
I have pickups that cost more than that.

[olivia_nb]

I get what you're saying, though I don't think its so much cultural bias against China, as if people actually believe the Chinese are incapable of making a decent product.
The truth of the matter is though a lot of companies out-source the manufacturing process to China because it's cheap cheap cheap, therefore quality control is low and assembly is less than consistent. It would be the same here or anywhere else if stuff was made by semi or unskilled laborers on a line vs. gear head hand made kit.
I own some decent Chinese made stuff, made even better by some mods and the fact it was really inexpensive. I think it does pay to bear in mind what we're saying before bashing something just because its made in China. Good food.

[azwun25]

Originally Posted by Dirty Halo

Oh? Ya don't don't like being called a red-neck? You from the South and automatically a "Redneck?" So, you're dumb, huh? Must be.

Well, so goes for the same ""Chinese-made" this and that type statements.

i get what you're saying but this is not the same thing. People from "rural" areas are not neccessarily "rednecks". However, last time I checked people from China are generally Chinese. But we're not talking about a nationality, we're talking about cheap labor and bad QC. Lets not play the racism card when it obviously doesn't apply here.

[De chromium cob]

We're also talking about a communist regime that crushes dissent and free speech with tanks. China will not be our friends for too much longer...mark my words.

[Duardo]

The truth of the matter is though a lot of companies out-source the manufacturing process to China because it's cheap cheap cheap, therefore quality control is low and assembly is less than consistent.

I think part of the issue as well is that there are a ton if identical cheap microphones on the market that are made by a few of the same factories in China that are no different other than the name badge and finish on them.

I'd agree that there are some high-quality Chinese-manufactured products on the market as well...Groove Tubes as mentioned, as well as things like the Focusrite ISA range and the Mojave microphones...

[Funk Dracula]

QC is terrible for China products in general. No fair trade as far as I know in the audio sector. I think fair trade doesn't apply, or practiced at all for electronics. That's a problem.

This video came up in a thread a little while ago. It was easier to look it up on youtube than here. YouTube - Audiotechnology Magazine presents Behringer Factory

It looks like a decent facility actually compared to the norm in China. It's hard to swallow the "dorm room" thing as a western person, but it is common place in China. I saw the "dorm room" thing the first time when Discovery channel had that World Atlas show about China. One of the people they followed moved from his farming village to work at such a facility. These manufacturing villages are a place of hope for all parties it seems.

The youtube video is a clear view of how behringer is making decent knockoffs cheaply. Speaking of knockoffs, China is where almost all knockoffs come from. And when you see for yourself the "factory village" model that is standard in China, you can see why this happens so easily.

It's very easy to imagine this setup with much lower standards, and a greedy "cut corners" model. Take the horrible government and the fact sweat shops DO exist in China; and realize buying Made in China is not without its merrits in being stigmatized.

But f*ck it, if I hear and use a "Made in China" piece of gear I love, I'll get slutty with it. I'll gladly buy it, and hope that a portion of my currency reaches the dude that assembled it. Cause that person deserves a chunk of the money.

But this is China we are talking about.

peace....

[pebis]

i'll bet a lot of the same people that get upset about "intellectual property" and are very righteous about the music industry/piracy are also the same ones that play the "chinese made" as "racist" card. . think about that for a second. . and think about where a much huger source of piracy comes from than, say, university campuses. .

i mean i suppose you could say "sweatshop globalist hedgemony" every time, but. .

[Dirty Halo]

Originally Posted by pebis

i'll bet a lot of the same people that get upset about "intellectual property" and are very righteous about the music industry/piracy are also the same ones that play the "chinese made" as "racist" card. . think about that for a second. . and think about where a much huger source of piracy comes from than, say, university campuses. .

i mean i suppose you could say "sweatshop globalist hedgemony" every time, but. .

Ahhh, ok... so they "derserve" the ill-will?

-a

[Zarathustra]

I guess we might as well bow down and bend over for our new masters.....

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/mai...cnchina118.xml

[dj_who]

Originally Posted by Zarathustra

I guess we might as well bow down and bend over for our new masters.....

Chinese growth 'to overtake US' - Telegraph

btw..we can only thank the MANY american business owners who are all too happy to take advantage of the cheap labor..regardless of a poor human rights record.

we will outsource the manufacturing of the rope we use to hang ourselves

oh well...it was a good run right? the usa was on top for a while....we made alot of good...alot of bad....sigh. thank god i have no children ...at least i think i don't

[pebis]

i don't think many people have direct bad will against the chinese people, i speak only for myself, but when i think of "made in china" i consider all the implications of american business selling out to a cheap manufacturing base which is quantity over quality (which is not to say that quality does not creep through, but it is not the emphasis) for the bottom dollar. . i don't think to fault "made in china" gear is to fault the chinese. . how long have they been making pro-audio gear, and under what conditions?

[narcoman]

Originally Posted by De chromium cob

We're also talking about a communist regime that crushes dissent and free speech with tanks. China will not be our friends for too much longer...mark my words.

DUUUDE - that was 18 years ago ! I've worked a lot in China, yes its got it problems, but it isn North Korea!!! Its very very modern (in the cities anyway). And very capitalist despite its still in power communist gov. Much better place than Russia.....

[Marty J]

There's the environmental impact to consider as well (for people who are concerned about such things). I read recently that 25% of China's emissions are produced manufacturing goods for export to Western countries.

[Ruphus]

Originally Posted by De chromium cob

We're also talking about a communist regime that crushes dissent and free speech with tanks. China will not be our friends for too much longer...mark my words.

The Chinese´s economical boost is based on complete irresponsibility. Their boom will be crashing in a irreparable way within the next ten years, due to ecological catastrophe.

Before that however in the near future the world might come to realize a hardly known tradition, which is Chinese chauvinism and racism. Even if not pronounced openly it will foresseably play a role in how Chinese companies and their government will be operating in the rest of the world.

In fact it shows already if you look at how they are behaving in Amazonas, Malaysia and Africa, just to name a few.

Just wait a couple more years.
The fact that the whole world will have left the vast production to the Chinese will be showing as a fatal conception.

This for one.

On the other hand there is decreasingly problem with chinese production quality.

Even in the realm of guitars as mentioned above.
Actually the mixture of traditional and imported know-how, together with CNC and CAD technology has led to the best-bang-for- the-buck instruments ever in the low- to studen level shelves.

And they are getting better from day to day.

To top it even they are often delivered in first rate wood quality as the Chinese are having plenty to waste; currently cutting down primare woods in the underdeveloped countries like no other ever before.

Should the rain consist of black acid in a couple of asmathic years just look at that pretty rosewood, mahogany or koha guitar that you bought for a steal.

And know that spilled instruments are yet the smallest issue, as the unique natural ressorts will be had distroyed before all for making ****en furniture, shipping boxes, plywood and continuously wasted paper out of the trees.

Irresponsible Chinese policies, all concentrated on accumulation and taking over, while not giving a slightest thought about consequent suffering and destruction, will be continueing the American Way of Live in a consequential way.

And you will not be liking it at all.

Lesser even what comes after the pseudo boom is over, when the ecological, irreversible bill comes; for all of us.

Ruphus

[Dirty Halo]

Originally Posted by Ruphus

The Chinese´s economical boost is based on complete irresponsibility. Their boom will be crashing in a irreparable way within the next ten years, due to ecological catastrophe.

Before that however in the near future the world might come to realize a hardly known tradition, which is Chinese chauvinism and racism. Even if not pronounced openly it will foresseably play a role in how Chinese companies and their government will be operating in the rest of the world.

In fact it shows already if you look at how they are behaving in Amazonas, Malaysia and Africa, just to name a few.

Just wait a couple more years.
The fact that the whole world will have left the vast production to the Chinese will be showing as a fatal conception.

This for one.

On the other hand there is decreasingly problem with chinese production quality.

Even in the realm of guitars as mentioned above.
Actually the mixture of traditional and imported know-how, together with CNC and CAD technology has led to the best-bang-for- the-buck instruments ever in the low- to studen level shelves.

And they are getting better from day to day.

To top it even they are often delivered in first rate wood quality as the Chinese are having plenty to waste; currently cutting down primare woods in the underdeveloped countries like no other ever before.

Should the rain consist of black acid in a couple of asmathic years just look at that pretty rosewood, mahogany or koha guitar that you bought for a steal.

And know that spilled instruments are yet the smallest issue, as the unique natural ressorts will be had distroyed before all for making ****en furniture, shipping boxes, plywood and continuously wasted paper out of the trees.

Irresponsible Chinese policies, all concentrated on accumulation and taking over, while not giving a slightest thought about consequent suffering and destruction, will be continueing the American Way of Live in a consequential way.

And you will not be liking it at all.

Lesser even what comes after the pseudo boom is over, when the ecological, irreversible bill comes; for all of us.

Ruphus

And folks, this IS the argument. These are the issues to consider, not the generalization but the real issues at play. IMO

And it's not playing the "racism" card if it's racism. And those who are open enough will admit the differnce between throwing out "Made in China" versus the kind if thinking above.

You see, it's not everything or nothing. We need to start thinking in more complex ways. China COULD play a positive role in the world, but that's where our attention needs to be focused because it relates to the world.

We need to look to ourselves first. What are WE doing? What is OUR country doing?

-a

[taturana]

Originally Posted by Dirty Halo

We need to look to ourselves first. What are WE doing? What is OUR country doing?

-a

yes... what has the US done so far? you guys been pretty good at destroying all your own forests to worry about chinese... and of course china still is playing catch up to the US in gas emissions and garbage production. maybe by now it has the US beat, but not a great record here for america either...

and to ruphus...
great argument, but i get a little worried when the amazon gets mentioned. if chinese are doing anything in amazon it´s because they are allowed by the brazilian govt, which is sovereign. it´s important to notice that amazon is not chinese, nor internationalized territory, but brazilian territory (for the most part), and amazonas is one of the 29 states of brazil, and will not cease to be so. The responsability and the burden of taking care of the amazon is the Brazilian govt´s only.

to me the main reason chinese products are always on the spot is that they are taking business away from the US and so the outcry, and all kinds of campaigns against them. their human rights records sucks since forever, but america´s isn´t looking any better with the news about abuses in iraq either, or UN defiance, and the whole bush enchillada ...

as for chinese products, their manufacturing is getting better and their business practices are very agressive, so they are on the rise. I have bought equipment from both places and will continue to do so.

If i was to boycott, i´d have to boycott both. and it´s frankly impossible to do so, and keep running a studio. maybe if i go live in the woods...

[Grizzly]

Originally Posted by taturana

If i was to boycott, i´d have to boycott both. and it´s frankly impossible to do so, and keep running a studio. maybe if i go live in the woods...

Very true !...

[KingDaddyO]

Originally Posted by De chromium cob

We're also talking about a communist regime that crushes dissent and free speech with tanks. China will not be our friends for too much longer...mark my words.

Originally Posted by dj_who

btw..we can only thank the MANY american business owners who are all too happy to take advantage of the cheap labor..regardless of a poor human rights record.

we will outsource the manufacturing of the rope we use to hang ourselves

oh well...it was a good run right? the usa was on top for a while....we made alot of good...alot of bad....sigh. thank god i have no children ...at least i think i don't

Originally Posted by Ruphus

The Chinese´s economical boost is based on complete irresponsibility. Their boom will be crashing in a irreparable way within the next ten years, due to ecological catastrophe.

>snip<

Irresponsible Chinese policies, all concentrated on accumulation and taking over, while not giving a slightest thought about consequent suffering and destruction, will be continueing the American Way of Live in a consequential way.

And you will not be liking it at all.

Lesser even what comes after the pseudo boom is over, when the ecological, irreversible bill comes; for all of us.
Ruphus

Originally Posted by Dirty Halo

>snip<
We need to look to ourselves first. What are WE doing? What is OUR country doing?
-a

BIFF ... BAM ... BOOM +5 all

Yeah sure, gadgets are great. But a few things we're not gonna get from the Chinese or gadgets (which are completely disposal & non-essential things) are the jobs that are being lost, the economic independence and stability we piss away daily, in addition to a better quality of life.

For me the bittersweet thought that keeps me awake at night, is that I do have children. Screw gadgets - I'm more worried about the shape of the world we are leaving for them and their children to deal with. There is no doubt that we haven't been saints either, having already been given what amounts to a free pass for our industrial age excess and everything else leading up to the present. It's difficult to throw accusations without coming off as hyprocritical ... but then there is also the fact that we only have one planet.

One guy who got it was the late great Kevin Gilbert. Released in 95', 'Goodness Gracious' has aged well. It's as relevant today as it was 17 years ago, and there's not a great many songs you can say that about.

Goodness Gracious is there nothing left to say?
When the ones that get to keep looking
are the ones that look away
It's pabulum for the sleepers
in the cult of brighter days
.
Goodness Gracious at the mercy of the crooks
We're broke and stroking vegetables
and there's way too many cooks
In every pot a pink slip, In every mouth a hook
.
Goodness Gracious I'm not listening anymore
Cause the spooks are in the White House
and they've justified a war
So wake me when they notify
we're gonna fight some more
...
Goodness Gracious not many people care
Concern is getting scarcer
true compassion really rare
I can see it on our faces. I can feel it in the air
Goodness Gracious me.
.
Goodness Gracious my generation's lost
They burned down all our bridges
before we had a chance to cross
Is it the winter of our discontent or just an early frost?
.
Goodness Gracious of apathy I sing
The baby boomers had it all and wasted everything
Now recess is almost over
and they won't get off the swing
.
Goodness Gracious we came in at the end
No sex that isn't dangerous, no money left to spend
We're the cleanup crew for parties
we were too young to attend
Goodness Gracious me.
Goodness Gracious my grandma used to say
The world's a scary place now,
things were different in her day
What horrors will be commonplace
when my hair starts to grey?


© 1995 - 2007 Estate of Kevin Gilbert

[gregohb]

You really can't boycot Chinese made things, unless you want to stop shopping at Target and Walmart, and buying almost everything but locally grown fruits. In theory there are plenty of good reasons though :
1. china executes more people in three months than the rest of the world executes in 3 years - including people convicted of economic crimes. There are also reports that the organs of executed inmates are sold to foreigners for high profit.
2. china is in no way a democracy, and they are increasing their crack down - people are sent to prison for many years for writing emails critical of the government, or for breaking up secret laws that are not published, such as telling foreigners they are not allowed to report on tianamen square. there are still people in prison to this day for their participation in Tianamen 18 years ago.
4. china has terrible worker's rights - children are enslaved, workers are locked in crowded factories and perish when a fire breaks out, about 6,000 chinese die in mine accidents a year.
5. china is on track to becoming the most powerful country in the world, and will eclipse US power within our lifetimes. Imagine a world where an oppressive government that will kill 3,000 of its own students is the prime power in the world.
6. Tibet, and their repeated threats to start war with the US over Taiwan.

As for boycotting the red states, I think red people have used boycotts against blue states, blue companies and blue individuals. Isn't there still a boycott going against the Dixie Chicks for brave stand against Bush? Notice that Danny Glover is no longer a spokesman on tv? Rightwinger Joe Scarborough led that big campagn to get him fired because of his political views against Bush and against the war. The republicans in washington were seriously talking about eliminating the tax exemption for state taxes - something which primarily affects blue states (who pay more in taxes but receive less in services, while red states pay less in taxes, but take in more federal services).

But there are plenty of good people in these red states - and in fact, all of the largest cities voted blue - even in Texas. Perhaps better to boycott any dealings with the Christian groups that push political agendas. Most of these big churches have expensive sound equipment and even recording equipment. I'd like to see audio companies refuse to sell to some of the more radical pro-war christian groups (or the folks who advocate murdering abortion doctors), on moral grounds.

[Ruphus]

Originally Posted by taturana

and to ruphus...
great argument, but i get a little worried when the amazon gets mentioned. if chinese are doing anything in amazon it´s because they are allowed by the brazilian govt, which is sovereign. it´s important to notice that amazon is not chinese, nor internationalized territory, but brazilian territory (for the most part), and amazonas is one of the 29 states of brazil, and will not cease to be so. The responsability and the burden of taking care of the amazon is the Brazilian govt´s only.

These are two problems of the same destructive quality.

The one is historically perfected manipulation that has led to people accepting words over contents. In this example titles of "democracy" over corrupted reality.

However, there is no societal democracy anywhere in the world, but fake governments and established networks of mafia.
Brazil with governing representatives who sell out peoples´ rights and interests are standing for just one more of countless international examples. Examples of fake popular representation that in fact profit only private persons and companies.

Very practical for industries. They need investing only a couple millions of bribe to obtain multiples value of states propriety, or omitt milliards of environmental investments, get states orderings for hillarious pricing, get officially pathed to rip off the people, get around competition, get around investigation on themselves, get around fines etc.pp.

What has remained of the amazonas woods as an indespensable value for the world and uncountable pecuniary ressource is being razored just for a couple million dollars that have been granted to a couple corrupted private thugs, who are allowed to promenate as elected officials.

That´s how it has been before in Brazil, only that the Chinese are cutting down the forests on an even more radical grade than Mitsubishi & Co. used to do before that.

So, the second problem is the boundless profiteering strategies, the impact and mentallly based irresponsibility of todays leading departments and the size of their undertakings.

That recklessness has been around for quite a while now, only that meanwhile proportions have exceeded the point that mother earth could handle.

To undertsand the principle of contemporary fatality look at the fishing industry. They reached to giant technology with huge vessels, sonar, and fishing nets of 50 km length.
The result: 90% of all living in the sea has vanished.

And, what is being done to overcome the problem?

They are now building even bigger vessels with even longer nets and the US are currently and thoughtlessly discussing fish farms of unseen calliber far offshore.

This is the problem with mindlessness of our combines.
And with Chinese leadership who after decades of low living standard being just the more eager, and with zero tradition of environmetal consciousness ( not that our own history of ~ 30 years environmental consideration was all that much, but in Far East the culture is traditionally more detouched from nature than in the rest of the world while they don´t even have the disucssion we have since three decades ) destruction is being just fatally accellerated.

People refuse to believe, but according to science there are no decades left to look and see, that everyone seems still to count with.
15 to 20 years from now and mother earth will be dead.

That is because it is just a planet, not a galaxy.

What do people actually imagine how much you can destroy without the world collapsing?

They seem to gather the earth was of the suns size and had a couple thousand times more species than it has to remain.

The common ignorance has me really puzzled.

The world is just a ball of 32 000 km perimeter.
It isn´t really THAT much.

Definitly not enough to cut down 28 hectars ( = 40 soccer fields ) of rainforests per minute and have that going on and on.

Why must we understand that yet when it has become too late?

I don´t know why, but it is obviously how that is.


Ruphus

[dj_who]

OH..i get it now.....dirty halo thinks we're a buch of redneck, bush loving, confederate flag waving, nascar watching, horse shoe throwing, rightwingers

i was wondering what the title meant. i now understand.

personally...i am an al gore hugging, animal rights supporting, dick chaney hating, wannabe gothic hippie buddhist.

just because someone hates the fact that our country has been overtaken by chinese products (mainly due to our own greed) doesn't make me a cross burning hate monger.

but yeah...i'll boycott redneck products too...sure why not.