BRING BLENDER2 BACK!!!

[kedbear]

Originally Posted by joeq

It bothers me because I see people like Blender as crippled- genuinely emotionally disturbed - whether he believes he is a clever troll or whether he believes he is serious.

It's not the obnoxiousness of his posts that bother me, it's the glee with which everybody joins in and gangs up to beat on him. The perfect match to his masochism is the sadism that greets his posts. I'll just say it: Troll-feeding is a form of bullying.

I got sucked into the Walters thing and I am now ashamed I ever posted on one of those threads.

It's not that I don't get the joke, it's that I have heard the punchline already. Many times. Doesn't the very appearance of a Blender call forth cries of "Walters" or that 22 guy or whoever? Don't people immediately speculate that they are one and the same person? What's new here? Maybe they appear to be similar because they represent the same pathology. What's so hilarious about mental illness or someone pretending to be mentally ill?



Screw it, if there are going to be separate "Blender threads" where this goes on, have at it, and don't mind me. I will just skip those threads. Not a hardship.




But if every thread that someone like Blender participates in turns into a troll-baiting beatdown, it's poisoning the forum. Time for him to be banned. Too bad people couldn't simply resist the urge to feed the troll, then banning wouldn't be necessary.

If you all love it SO MUCH, the next time a Blender or a Walters appears, remember to download the thread to your hard drive so you can enjoy it over and over and over.

But on the flipside, many people were prepared to give sympathetic and really quite generous advice, which was heartening. There were some really helpful comments and interesting anecdotes. I know this can all be criticised, but the thread was actually quite revealing in many ways, the way different personalities treated him.

[snüzz]

I don't agree with that point of view. How does a discussion like that, however silly, take away from any serious discussion? Once seeing what the topic is all about, anyone can choose to never waste their time on it again. How does it take away from anything else? Maybe it should have been moved out of High end (along with this follow up thread ), but if people are getting a few laughs from it, why does that have to bother those that don't find it humorous?

i didn't mean to make it sound like i recieved no enjoyment or humor out of that post. i was hooked like a housewife on a soap. i would like to say that i think the moderators of this forum have found a good balance between the informative and the absurd- leaning toward the former. kudos!

[ISedlacek]

A true HIGH END discussion ...

[chandlersonic]

Originally Posted by ISedlacek

A true HIGH END discussion ...

Well Blender is a high end human being.

[kafka]

I say let him back in when he's made some music and is willing to start talking about the process. Until then it's all just noise.

[Nu-tra]

A true "EPIC" discussion.

Originally Posted by ISedlacek

A true HIGH END discussion ...

[Sounds Great]

Originally Posted by henryrobinett

Well, yes and no. I've known some utterly fantastically brilliant people, who knew they were utterly fantasticallly brilliant and let you know it as well. Mozart certainly was crass, and Beethoven knew his worth. Miles Davis was as arrogant as they come.

Sure but they earned the right to be arrogant. They actually did something worthy.

[HEADROOM]

I personally dont think Blender got beaten more than he deserved. Of course it was hard to take him serious, but I think most of the reactions were within reason.

I ve seen more severe bashing in other threads.

Maybe I missed somthing but apart from the fact that the thread wasnt exactly about the U47, I dont know why it was deleted.

No big deal also.....but the Pierrick thread wasnt about the microphone either.....

A word of explanation from the moderator could be revealing.....

[henryrobinett]

Originally Posted by Sounds Great

Sure but they earned the right to be arrogant. They actually did something worthy.

Yes, BUT they are arrogant and already KNOW their worth before they've accomplished anything. It's the attitude of "arrongance" which gives them the power to dare to dream and to have the audacity to realize those dreams.

[Grizzly]

Originally Posted by henryrobinett

Yes, BUT they are arrogant and already KNOW their worth before they've accomplished anything. It's the attitude of "arrongance" which gives them the power to dare to dream and to have the audacity to realize those dreams.

Anyone arrogant ain't worth a single sh*t to me anyway... but that's just me...

[octatonic]

Originally Posted by henryrobinett

Yes, BUT they are arrogant and already KNOW their worth before they've accomplished anything. It's the attitude of "arrongance" which gives them the power to dare to dream and to have the audacity to realize those dreams.

I don't see talent as an excuse for being a twat.
Certainly some people are both.

Thinking about two rock musicians - Billy Corgan and Maynard James Keenan.
Both incredibly talented and very successful.
Billy is an utter knob in interviews, in person - so precious and arrogant about himself.
Maynard just isn't- he is humble but not a pussy about things.
He stands his ground but doesn't ntentionally piss people off.

I'd much rather work with (and be) the latter.

Arrogance, I have found, is usually insecurity turned outward- a way of trying to prove to the world that you aren't as scared as you actually are.
I've never met an arrogant person that wasn't a colossal emotional f*ckup.
Malmsteen is the classic example.

[butterfly]

Jeez guys this thread is utterly proposterous.........I don't know who the **** blender is apart from stumbling across one of his posts whereby he stated that he had a $400,000 budget for a project, a trifle unlikely it must be said, however it now seems to have morphed into a somewhat skewed philisophical debate on the artistic ego via various theories on mental illness and bi-polar disorders. Henry, surely arrogance is not a preriquisite for genius is it?

[henryrobinett]

Originally Posted by octatonic

Arrogance, I have found, is usually insecurity turned outward- a way of trying to prove to the world that you aren't as scared as you actually are.
I've never met an arrogant person that wasn't a colossal emotional f*ckup.
Malmsteen is the classic example.

Could be. But I think people who get offended by arrogance are often exhibiting insecurity. I think what is sometimes perceived as arrogance is merely confidence. Sometimes supreme confidence.

Most of the people I admire artistically were confident and have been perceived as arrogant. Even those who some think are modest and shy, what lies underneath is often supreme confidence. Not always. Some people, even those so confident, are also plagued by doubt.

I've always been able to separate my appreciation for someones work and themselves. I've known a lot of famous, great artists. Many would just offend people by merely being themselves. But most everyone loved and admired their work. It takes a huge and hopefully, healthy ego, to overcome obstacles and rise to the occassion.

But what I fond MOST intersting is the mass public who'd like to shove you down if you dare to think you're better or even exceptional. THAT is greatly offensive. It's offensive because it pushes people very own buttons of failure.

[octatonic]

Originally Posted by henryrobinett

Most of the people I admire artistically were confident and have been perceived as arrogant. Even those who some think are modest and shy, what lies underneath is often supreme confidence. Not always. Some people, even those so confident, are also plagued by doubt.

This I agree with.
I think of it in terms of it being a 'prime mover'.
Some people are internally driven to do a particular thing and nothing can stop them.
This I agree with, 100%.

I'm all for dedication, drive and raw talent.
I am utterly sick of singer-songwriters who spend zero time on their voice or guitar playing because they think that any sort of theory or technical ability will somehow 'kill their creativity'. To me, this is exactly what you are talking about. They are ones who try to drag people who can actually play their asses off down to their level with some bullshit accusation of 'technique over passion'.

[Sounds Great]

Originally Posted by henryrobinett

Yes, BUT they are arrogant and already KNOW their worth before they've accomplished anything. It's the attitude of "arrongance" which gives them the power to dare to dream and to have the audacity to realize those dreams.

You can't read that into arrogance. It doesn't go both ways. Many true artists may be arrogant to some extent or another. But such a display does not in any way indicate more likelyness that the person has talent. Ever seen American Idol?

[henryrobinett]

Originally Posted by Sounds Great

You can't read that into arrogance. It doesn't go both ways. Many true artists may be arrogant to some extent or another. But such a display does not in any way indicate more likelyness that the person has talent. Ever seen American Idol?

I'm not reading that into arrogance. I'm reading it the other way. Because a person is arrogant doesn't mean they have reason to be. But a person of great accomplishment is, more often than not, arrogant. He KNOWS he's the shit. And mostly he knew he was the shit long before he was the shit. It's that young kid who was burning inside to be recognized and worked HARD to be the best he could be. And when he put in 12 hours a day for 15 years in his practice room he KNOWS he's better than you are. And he also knows it may not be TALENT at all. TALENT is such a useless word after a certain point. It's WORK. And most people don't work or even know how to. Most people think it's TALENT that you're born with. That arrogant guys knows better.

99% of the American Idol kids also have no clue.

[henryrobinett]

Originally Posted by butterfly

Henry, surely arrogance is not a preriquisite for genius is it?

I think this is an interesting question. So few geniuses to survey. It seems to me an awful lot of geniuses and brilliant, innovative people have been what other people would term arrogant. I mean, don't you think so? What does it take to go against trends and do something totally above the norm, by substantial margins? It takes someone exceptional. And it takes someone who as some indication that they believe they are exceptional. Probably somewhat socially backwards too, -- awkward.

There's a huge backwater of humanity that desperately wants you to be just like they are, -- mediocre, because it would make them feel better about themselves. Anyone who breaks out of the pack will, conversely, make you feel inadequate. So you resent this. In survival mode the exceptional one has to build up walls to protect himself from the hordes that will attack him for being exceptional, so he becomes ARROGANT.

[Grizzly]

Originally Posted by henryrobinett

There's a huge backwater of humanity that desperately wants you to be just like they are, -- mediocre, because it would make them feel better about themselves. Anyone who breaks out of the pack will, conversely, make you feel inadequate. So you resent this. In survival mode the exceptional one has to build up walls to protect himself from the hordes that will attack him for being exceptional, so he becomes ARROGANT.

The true exceptional so-called "genius" doesn't have to build any protecting wall, he/she's a true free spirit flying above with no awareness of his/her specificity - this pure and total freedom is what naturally brings a huge amount of creativity in that person, who will then be qualified and considered as a "genius" by "normal" people who always need to tag others to feel comfortable...

Those "exceptional" people may appear unpleasant, socially uncapable, totally crazy or even retarded sometimes, but less probably arrogant, which is to me the evidence of a doubtful mind, the displayed behaviour of someone who still has to prove too many things to himself and others...

Mind the fakes !...

Olivier.

[GYang]

Originally Posted by Grizzly

Those "exceptional" people may appear unpleasant, socially uncapable, totally crazy or even retarded sometimes, but less probably arrogant, which is to me the evidence of a doubtful mind, the displayed behaviour of someone who still has to prove too many things to himself and others...

Mind the fakes !...

Olivier.

Some of the most talented people I knew personally (not only in music, but generally in life) who achieved real heights in private, business and social life were actually very pleasant and nice personalities. Their strength is way beyond behaviour skills that would enable them to manipulate or dominate others.
There is something combined of vision, passion, confidence and capability to be driven toward target without bitching others in best sons of human race.
Many hystorically powerful rulers and tyrans were utterly ego-centred, selfish and arrogant personalities. What was probably pre-requisite to reach and remain on the top.

[butterfly]

It seems to me an awful lot of geniuses and brilliant, innovative people have been what other people would term arrogant. I mean, don't you think so? What does it take to go against trends and do something totally above the norm, by substantial margins? It takes someone exceptional. And it takes someone who as some indication that they believe they are exceptional. Probably somewhat socially backwards too, -- awkward.

Well Henry I don't know a lot of geniuses, in fact I don't personally know any. Well I did go to college with a now very well known UK composer, who probably fits into that category: but I think "genius" is an overused term and one that tends to get used indiscriminately by people, who often don't know any better, referring to artist x, or artist y as a genius. I think it's something you are born with and I agree it might well come at the expense of other human qualities and thus create a deficit elsewhere in the psyche. I suppose it's that old cliche about the fine line between genius and madness. But yes, "so few geniuses to survey", so we will probably never know.

[HEADROOM]

I think the reason a lot of us had a problem with Blender wasnt merely his arrogance. It was the COMBINATION of his arrogance and obvious having no clue.....

I think it is understandable that people resent somebody that thinks he can BUY his succes. Or buying stuff and people to do the work for him so his light can shine brightly, without going thru the hassles of really learning an instrument, or reading a book about recording techniques....whatever WORK has to be done to achieve anything. At least that is how he came across to me....

But I still think it was a provocative thread he started just to see the reactions.

If not I can only feel pity....

[psycho_monkey]

Originally Posted by HEADROOM

I think the reason a lot of us had a problem with Blender wasnt merely his arrogance. It was the COMBINATION of his arrogance and obvious having no clue.....

I think it is understandable that people resent somebody that thinks he can BUY his succes. Or buying stuff and people to do the work for him so his light can shine brightly, without going thru the hassles of really learning an instrument, or reading a book about recording techniques....whatever WORK has to be done to achieve anything. At least that is how he came across to me....

Precisely. Arrogance without anything to back it up - and assuming the posts were genuine, he couldn't understand why no-one else couldn't see how great he was, despite the fact that he had nothing to be appreciated other than the fact he'd written his album "in his head".

"Delusional" in a word. If he exists that is..

[henryrobinett]

Originally Posted by Grizzly

The true exceptional so-called "genius" doesn't have to build any protecting wall, he/she's a true free spirit flying above with no awareness of his/her specificity - this pure and total freedom is what naturally brings a huge amount of creativity in that person, who will then be qualified and considered as a "genius" by "normal" people who always need to tag others to feel comfortable...

Ha! And you know this how?
My god I've known more than a handlful of brilliant people, some famous, very well known people. I don't think you can generalize like that -- saying that, "The true exceptional so-called "genius" doesn't have to build any protecting wall, " Probably it's bad to generlize either way. I mean one of those people I know is not arrogant in that way. Yes, he KNOWS he's one of worlds greatest pianists, but he's very personable and gracious and pleasant to be around.

I don't know how you know that the true exceptional genius doesn't have to build any protective walls. I don't know how you know this. We all have protective walls of varying sizes and degrees. e's a free spirit? Who said? Who is specifically?

[roxxon]

Arrogant people are just plain rude.
Extreme rudness is not a virtue, no matter how talented someone may be.
A prick known by any other name is still in fact, a prick...all the same.

[henryrobinett]

Originally Posted by roxxon

Arrogant people are just plain rude.
Extreme rudness is not a virtue, no matter how talented someone may be.
A prick known by any other name is still in fact, a prick...all the same.

No argument there! I'm not justifying the rudeness of arrogant people. But not all arrogant people are rude. I think people are thinking of the rude asshole Malmsteen types.

[Grizzly]

Originally Posted by henryrobinett

Ha! And you know this how?
My god I've known more than a handlful of brilliant people, some famous, very well known people.

Oh damn, now I feel ashamed I dared speaking !...

Originally Posted by henryrobinett

I don't know how you know that the true exceptional genius doesn't have to build any protective walls. I don't know how you know this.

Well it's just that all the "exceptional" people I've met (far less than you have, I must admit) had somehow gone beyond the casual "wannaprove" relationship to others and, free of all kinds of social fears and "walls" (that often lead to very negative behaviours like arrogance), were able to embrace their art or skills with total freedom, which, in my world at least, is the quintessential condition to achieve great things in life...

Originally Posted by henryrobinett

We all have protective walls of varying sizes and degrees.

That's why not all of us are "geniuses"....

[Grizzly]

Originally Posted by roxxon

Arrogant people are just plain rude.
Extreme rudness is not a virtue, no matter how talented someone may be.
A prick known by any other name is still in fact, a prick...all the same.

An arrogant genius is a fart...

[Duardo]

I guess he was a better troll than I gave him credit for...