beware of sweetwater

[robertshaw]

I have been buying gear for 25 years. I've always pretty much bought locally. Recently I bought something at Sweetwater, first and last time. I has heard these guys were bozos but not shady.

The item I bought wasn't cutting it for me so I called them up to get an RMA# This guy Matt gave me such a hard time. Their web site cleary states "No Hassle Return policy". This was beyond a hassle, I was pissed. Finally I argued with him till he agreed to take it back. So I went to fedex and shipped it back.

As a precaution I always photograph higher priced items at the shipping place before I ship them. I do this so later on ups/fedex don't say the box wasn't in good condition or improperly packaged etc.... in case of breakage.

About 5 days later I get a call from Matt at Sweetwater. He tells me I have to pay a 15% restocking fee of $150 since the shipping box had writing on it!!! Keep in mind the unit itself was mint. I was being charged 15% for writing on the outside of the box??? Total bullshit!!!!

Well I never wrote on the box and had photos to prove it. I argued with his manager for over 15 minutes!!! After 15 min. I finally told him I had photos from my camera phone clearly showing the box had no writing as they stated. Keep in mind these photos were of the package on the counter at fedex with the fedex lady in background in uniform.

Needless to say they gave me a full refund. Is this common practice at sweetwater? Lying to get the 15% restocking fee!! Do they do this to deter returns?

Sorry to go on so long but beware of Sweetwater. I knew these bozos don't know shi* about proaudio but this crosses the line of consumer rights.

[gainstages]

if you search the web you'll find an over-abundance of very happy sweetwater customers - probably more favorable comments for them than any of the other big places.

i think you experienced an isolated event, and if you can't work it out with this Matt guy or his manager, I believe you should ask to speak with their "Customer Amazement Specialist" or with the VP of sales.

I'm serious, you really need to give it a shot. Everybody is going to make mistakes or have a bad day once in a while, and these guys have gone to great lengths to make things right. It sounds like they made it right in the end, and I hope you would agree.

[emkay]

Originally Posted by gainstages

if you search the web you'll find an over-abundance of very happy sweetwater customers - probably more favorable comments for them than any of the other big places.

i think you experienced an isolated event, and if you can't work it out with this Matt guy or his manager, I believe you should ask to speak with their "Customer Amazement Specialist" or with the VP of sales.

I'm serious, you really need to give it a shot. Everybody is going to make mistakes or have a bad day once in a while, and these guys have gone to great lengths to make things right. It sounds like they made it right in the end, and I hope you would agree.

This guy has a valid complaint because it happened to him and as far as I know, unless the customer is a total jerk, the first rule of biz is--"The customer is ALWAYS right" and in his case from what he says, they didn't go to "great lengths"

Telling him that there are more positive reports than negative doesn't make it any better for this guy or make his negative experience go away does it?
I'm not flaming you, and I definitely only know one side of the story.....but getting screwed over by a gear pimp is not beyond the realm of possibility.........peace?

PS.. for whatever it's worth, I would never buy from Sweetwater, they have kind of a "cultish" Reverend Moon vibe about them.
Ever read any of the employee profiles in their catalogues? They all love music, have a great wife and kids and are usually church goers,
"not that there's anything wrong with that"!!. A little bizarre that's all.
Catalogues make great "toilet" reading tho"..............peace again?

[soundeziner]

What you are relating certainly does have a high suck factor.

One of the sales associates at Sweetwater I deal with very often is named Matt. My Matt is EXTREMELY helpful and VERY VERY cool. I'd hate to think another Matt is making my guy look bad.

[flail19]

oy vey, this is where everyone comes on and tells us why or why not sweetwater is great or Sweetwater sucks....then someone from Sweetwater if not Chuck himself chimes in and smooths things over....oh well.....let the games begin!

[gainstages]

Originally Posted by emkay

This guy has a valid complaint because it happened to him and as far as I know, unless the customer is a total jerk, the first rule of biz is--"The customer is ALWAYS right" and in his case from what he says, they didn't go to "great lengths"

Telling him that there are more positive reports than negative doesn't make it any better for this guy or make his negative experience go away does it?
I'm not flaming you, and I definitely only know one side of the story.....but getting screwed over by a gear pimp is not beyond the realm of possibility.........peace?

PS.. for whatever it's worth, I would never buy from Sweetwater, they have kind of a "cultish" Reverend Moon vibe about them.
Ever read any of the employee profiles in their catalogues? They all love music, have a great wife and kids and are usually church goers,
"not that there's anything wrong with that"!!. A little bizarre that's all.
Catalogues make great "toilet" reading tho"..............peace again?

Didn't say he didn't have a valid complaint, i'm sure he did. I just wanted to let him know that this is not in standing with their reputation and their business practices. maybe this matt is new, or maybe he just is a dink, i don't know...

[joelpatterson]

*... the humble masses search the skies, waiting for some sign of Chuck...*

[Energie]

Sorry about your situation dude, If you are unhappy still, I would recomend pursuing it further, chances are it will be resolved in a better manner. I have had both good and bad experiences with EVERY retailer of all sorts. I appreciate that I get to work with the same guy at sweetwater, he knows me pretty good and sometimes I just have to leave an email or message and its taken care of. So certainly they do have happy customers, and as with any place, things go wrong, defintelly see what they can do, if not the guy you talked to, ask to speak with someone higher, and so forth... They do reallly promote their customer service a tad much though, kidna annoying...

[RBowlin]

Been there. Chuck did the right thing and took care of it.

Flame suit on.

-Rich

[yumdrum]

Originally Posted by Energie

Sorry about your situation dude, If you are unhappy still, I would recomend pursuing it further, chances are it will be resolved in a better manner. I have had both good and bad experiences with EVERY retailer of all sorts. I appreciate that I get to work with the same guy at sweetwater, he knows me pretty good and sometimes I just have to leave an email or message and its taken care of. So certainly they do have happy customers, and as with any place, things go wrong, defintelly see what they can do, if not the guy you talked to, ask to speak with someone higher, and so forth... They do reallly promote their customer service a tad much though, kidna annoying...

Pursuing what tho? Didn't he say he received a full refund? SW isn't going to do any better than that. Unfortunately sheit happens with less experienced salespeople sometimes. I wouldn't write off the entire company for it.

There are some very knowledgable people there and they have always given me great service. Just my 2 FWIW.

[robertshaw]

Guys, not trying to start a flame war. Simply just giving a heads up
and/or seeing if this is an isolated incident......... even though
I don't think they know all much at SW.

About a month earlier a friend of mine asked me what pre he should buy.
He was looking for the best value with a vintage vibe. I recommended a great river.
He called sweetwater and the sales guy told him he didn't want the GR
he told him he would be better off with a presonus. HUH???!!!!

To recommend a presonus over a GR is inexperience or there was some ulterior motive
on part of the salesman. I would bet the presonus pays bit more commission to the
sales guy and that was his reasoning to suggest a presonus.

[Energie]

Originally Posted by yumdrum

Pursuing what tho? Didn't he say he received a full refund? SW isn't going to do any better than that. Unfortunately sheit happens with less experienced salespeople sometimes. I wouldn't write off the entire company for it.

There are some very knowledgable people there and they have always given me great service. Just my 2 FWIW.

ahh yeah, Sorry, I re-read his post to see it was all taken care of. I think with sweetwater, some of the sales engineers are just that, opinionated engineers and gear users, or engineer wannabees in some cases maybe, I mean if you ask someone on this forum what pre to get, you will get tons of opinions, the more noob engineers will probally stick in their opinion faster, rather then wait for a question. if the guy wanted a GR, then just tell the dude thats what he wants, if a particuliar sales person sucks, just ask for a new one. I switched engineers once, and I love the guy i deal with now.

robertshaw, maybe if you decide to give them a try, ask for a different sales person, or perhaps avoid sweetwater all togetha.

[bschigel]

just buy gear, everyone knows what it cost, I buy from sweetwater when they have 12months same as cash, if they don't then maybe I get it from GC cause they have 12months sames as cash, they both don't have dick on vintage king in my opinion. Just my opinion.

[gainstages]

Originally Posted by robertshaw

Guys, not trying to start a flame war. Simply just giving a heads up
and/or seeing if this is an isolated incident......... even though
I don't think they know all much at SW.

About a month earlier a friend of mine asked me what pre he should buy.
He was looking for the best value with a vintage vibe. I recommended a great river.
He called sweetwater and the sales guy told him he didn't want the GR
he told him he would be better off with a presonus. HUH???!!!!

To recommend a presonus over a GR is inexperience or there was some ulterior motive
on part of the salesman. I would bet the presonus pays bit more commission to the
sales guy and that was his reasoning to suggest a presonus.

unfortunately, some people sell what they know most. the presonus is a fantastic preamp, but yeah - i wouldn't say it had THE vintage vibe (but it does have some). my bet is that he's had limited experience with the GR and quite a bit of exposure to the presonus. maybe he thought he knew better than your friend, or maybe he wanted more commission.

just like on gearslutz, you have to take everyone's opinion with a grain of salt. There are some things that are black and white, but a lot of stuff is subjective. the presonus is a bit cheaper than the great river - he may have thought he was saving your friend a few bucks and doing him a favor.

It's good to know who you are talking to - my guy at sweetwater has a ton of real world experience, and when there are certain things he isn't as experienced with i know he talks to the guys there that do have that experience. he's never steered me wrong, and has prevented me from wasting my money, so he's been a real help.

if you and your friend aren't happy with your sales guy there, talk to the manager about getting a new sales rep. If you PM me, i'll gladly give you the name of several guys there who really know their stuff and would take good care of you.

[Albert]

Originally Posted by robertshaw

To recommend a presonus over a GR is inexperience or there was some ulterior motive
on part of the salesman. I would bet the presonus pays bit more commission to the
sales guy and that was his reasoning to suggest a presonus.

Presonus does make a preamp that is not a budget unit, called the ADL 600. If the salesperson was referring to that unit, then it's a decent suggestion. But if he was referring to the Presonus TubePRE, then obviously not.

[pan60]

robertshaw this is not normal for sweetwater at all.
they have a lot of salesmen and i am sure they are always adding new ones to the team.
i would ask for a different sales rep as they are not all the same.
don't be surprised if Chuck the owner steps in as he is very passionate when it comes to customer service.
best of luck to you

[Duardo]

To recommend a presonus over a GR is inexperience or there was some ulterior motive on part of the salesman.

Assuming the Presonus unit in question is indeed the ADL600 perhaps the ulterior motive was simply that he prefers the Presonus to the Great River. Have you ever tried the Presonus out? It's a handbuilt high-voltage tube preamp that is certainly on par with the Great River both price- and quality-wise. Which is "better" or has more of a "vintage vibe" to it is certainly a subjective thing and there's not a right or wrong answer...just preference.

[The MPCist]

Originally Posted by gainstages

if you search the web you'll find an over-abundance of very happy sweetwater customers - probably more favorable comments for them than any of the other big places.

Over-abundance of people unhappy with their experiences buying from Sweetwater as well.

[Vandergraf]

Originally Posted by The MPCist

Over-abundance of people unhappy with their experiences buying from Sweetwater as well.

. . . . AND Zzounds, AND Musicians Friend, AND Sam Ash, AND Guitar Center AND . . . They've all pissed me off at one time or another. Sweetwater and MS the least .

A re-stocking fee for "writing on the box" IS bullsh*t !


Van

[ddstrahm]

Originally Posted by robertshaw

...I have been buying gear for 25 years. I've always pretty much bought locally. Recently I bought something at Sweetwater, first and last time. I has heard these guys were bozos but not shady...

robertshaw, I've sent you a more detailed PM and would love to see what we can do to resolve this for you. I hope to hear from you soon.

Originally Posted by gainstages

...I'm serious, you really need to give it a shot. Everybody is going to make mistakes or have a bad day once in a while, and these guys have gone to great lengths to make things right. It sounds like they made it right in the end, and I hope you would agree.

gainstages, thanks for weighing in and well put.

Originally Posted by flail19

oy vey, this is where everyone comes on and tells us why or why not sweetwater is great or Sweetwater sucks....then someone from Sweetwater if not Chuck himself chimes in and smooths things over....oh well.....let the games begin!

flail19, that would be me... I actually spoke to Chuck about this at our company picnic today and yes, we get very concerned when anyone has a less than great experience with us. He/we all take customer service very seriously and if a customer has spoken to us to resolve an issue, which it sounds like robertshaw did, and still feels compelled to post his issues, then we probably didn't do the best we could. I've PM'd him to discuss this and of course, will make it right.

Originally Posted by emkay

...for whatever it's worth, I would never buy from Sweetwater, they have kind of a "cultish" Reverend Moon vibe about them.
Ever read any of the employee profiles in their catalogues? They all love music, have a great wife and kids and are usually church goers,
"not that there's anything wrong with that"!!. A little bizarre that's all.
Catalogues make great "toilet" reading tho"..............peace again?

emkay, I've been with Sweetwater for over Eight years, known Chuck for over 35 years and have yet to been asked to drink the cult sacrificial blood. :-) However, I do have four great kids, two awesome granddaughters, love music and have since I was six years old and saw the Beatles on Ed Sullivan. OK I just dated myself. :-) Also I'm not much of a church goer and I'm not married. My point is, we do have quite an eclectic and dynamic group of people at Sweetwater and we all take great pride in the business. If this comes off as cultish, then I'll be sure to pass your concerns onto our Marketing Department. Hopefully you'll give us a shot someday and let me know what you thought of your experience. We really are all about taking care of the customer.

Have a great weekend everyone (what's left of it) and thanks for the input.

Doug Strahm
Director of Customer Service
Sweetwater
800 222 4700 Ext 1040

[Coyoteous]

I've dealt with SW more off than on for the last 15 years or so. Most of the dealings have been fine - on par with the other places. My biggest complaint is their over-zealous sales drones. I still have one that calls from time to time, even though I asked them not to years ago.

Pet owners: do you have a dog or cat that runs in or out of the door, even though you tell them not to? They see the door open and they go! The latest thing was the sales guy saying he'd need to hear from me before he sent out my "gear guide" - sent it anyway.

"Your gonna want this - tells you everthing you need to know about gear."

Fortunately, I never had to return anything to them, but I did have some run-arounds about some other issues. MF is at the top of my crap list right now, but that's another story! (you can't use the warehouse move excuse forever)

[Remoteness]

Food for thought.

What an awesome idea -- Photos of the package at FedEx/UPS, etc.!

I've taken pictures of the gear and packaging before I've shipped it, but I never took them at the counter of the shipping facility.

Thank you for your advice and enlightenment.

Originally Posted by robertshaw

I have been buying gear for 25 years. I've always pretty much bought locally. Recently I bought something at Sweetwater, first and last time. I has heard these guys were bozos but not shady.

The item I bought wasn't cutting it for me so I called them up to get an RMA# This guy Matt gave me such a hard time. Their web site cleary states "No Hassle Return policy". This was beyond a hassle, I was pissed. Finally I argued with him till he agreed to take it back. So I went to fedex and shipped it back.

As a precaution I always photograph higher priced items at the shipping place before I ship them. I do this so later on ups/fedex don't say the box wasn't in good condition or improperly packaged etc.... in case of breakage.

About 5 days later I get a call from Matt at Sweetwater. He tells me I have to pay a 15% restocking fee of $150 since the shipping box had writing on it!!! Keep in mind the unit itself was mint. I was being charged 15% for writing on the outside of the box??? Total bullshit!!!!

Well I never wrote on the box and had photos to prove it. I argued with his manager for over 15 minutes!!! After 15 min. I finally told him I had photos from my camera phone clearly showing the box had no writing as they stated. Keep in mind these photos were of the package on the counter at fedex with the fedex lady in background in uniform.

Needless to say they gave me a full refund. Is this common practice at sweetwater? Lying to get the 15% restocking fee!! Do they do this to deter returns?

Sorry to go on so long but beware of Sweetwater. I knew these bozos don't know shi* about proaudio but this crosses the line of consumer rights.

[De chromium cob]

Originally Posted by Coyoteous

I've dealt with SW more off than on for the last 15 years or so. Most of the dealings have been fine - on par with the other places. My biggest complaint is their over-zealous sales drones.

That was my experience as well. Nothing against Sweetwater, but over the years I developed relationships with dealers that would really hook me up with exceptional prices, answer my questions (or say, "that's a good question, I dont know but I'll find out") and not call me out of the blue to get a sale when I didn't need anything.

[MrHope]

I had a bad experience with SweetWater too. I found an item that I wanted to purchase so I began a transaction. As soon as I mentioned that my credit card billing address was different from my shipping address, the guy on the other end of the phone went ballistic and started yelling at me in a very hostile voice. I couldn't get him calmed down enough to explain to him why my addresses were different, so I hung up on him while he was still yelling.

It was really easy buying from American Musical Supply and Musician's Friend by comparison. I just gave them the relevant info, and they shipped my gear. I really like American Musical Supply. Musician's Friend is OK sometimes, but they are geared more towards guitarists.

[Jake 2.0]

No company can be perfect S*** happens.Sorry to hear that some people have had bad experiences with sweetwater. I have been using them for 6 years and have had nothing but positive and stress free purchases.

[raal]

i bought a mini mbox dealy for my son at berklee; they shipped it, everything was fine. they even sent candy with the thing! my shipping and billing addresses were different BTW, no problemo.

sounds like you got a lemon mr. shaw but just thought i'd pipe in and say SW is fine by me.

[LoopQuantum]

Originally Posted by robertshaw

I have been buying gear for 25 years. I've always pretty much bought locally. Recently I bought something at Sweetwater, first and last time. I has heard these guys were bozos but not shady.

The item I bought wasn't cutting it for me so I called them up to get an RMA# This guy Matt gave me such a hard time. Their web site cleary states "No Hassle Return policy". This was beyond a hassle, I was pissed. Finally I argued with him till he agreed to take it back. So I went to fedex and shipped it back.

As a precaution I always photograph higher priced items at the shipping place before I ship them. I do this so later on ups/fedex don't say the box wasn't in good condition or improperly packaged etc.... in case of breakage.

About 5 days later I get a call from Matt at Sweetwater. He tells me I have to pay a 15% restocking fee of $150 since the shipping box had writing on it!!! Keep in mind the unit itself was mint. I was being charged 15% for writing on the outside of the box??? Total bullshit!!!!

Well I never wrote on the box and had photos to prove it. I argued with his manager for over 15 minutes!!! After 15 min. I finally told him I had photos from my camera phone clearly showing the box had no writing as they stated. Keep in mind these photos were of the package on the counter at fedex with the fedex lady in background in uniform.

Needless to say they gave me a full refund. Is this common practice at sweetwater? Lying to get the 15% restocking fee!! Do they do this to deter returns?

Sorry to go on so long but beware of Sweetwater. I knew these bozos don't know shi* about proaudio but this crosses the line of consumer rights.

Hmm...Restocking fee for Writing on the box. Let's look at this from a business perspective.

My wife has a scented candle business. We do it mostly through EBay. We allow returns. So, let's say we ship a box of candles to a customer, they don't like them, and they return them. Let's also say that the packaging, which was indeed a decent expense, shows up in a condition that would immediately flag to the next buyer that the product has been shipped already. Now we can't sell them as new, can we? Which means we have to sell it for less, yes? This means that the return ultimately is not a "return to zero", but an expense. Not accusing you of anything here, but if the box had writing all over it, It would obviously have to be sold for less to the next one to purchase. This is why almost every music store I've ever dealt with reserves the right to assess a restocking fee, as do I in my own business as well. MF, GC, Full Compass, Alto, all of 'em do it. Perhaps you're being completely honest, which I don't doubt. The reason then, is all of the dishonest folks preceding you and using return policies to their benefit that have most likely created this paradigm.

Furthermore, your poor experience with one salesperson doesn't necessarily mandate the flaming of an entire organization, now does it? I don't hate germans, and Hitler was a tool, yes?

If I may wax Hiphop for a moment, " Don't hate the player, hate the game". Ask for a new rep, or move on perhaps. Anywhere you choose to shop, there will be good folks, and not so good folks. Ultimately, you can never expect 100% perfection, just the best ratio in your favor.

[pan60]

Originally Posted by MrHope

As soon as I mentioned that my credit card billing address was different from my shipping address, the guy on the other end of the phone went ballistic and started yelling at me in a very hostile voice. I couldn't get him calmed down enough to explain to him why my addresses were different, so I hung up on him while he was still yelling.

i have two address and i think many do.
it would be difficult not to in many business situations.
i have never had a issue with a shipping address being different then a bill address.
i wonder what happens when you want to send roses to you wife at work?
or how do so many handle drop shipments?
and what about a traveler from LA in new you using his card, yea ship that to my hotel but bill my house?
sorry but the tell seems odd MrHope:(

[carlheinz]

Put the box within a box....if you you didn't already....next time.

[mic anon]

Originally Posted by robertshaw

I have been buying gear for 25 years. I've always pretty much bought locally. Recently I bought something at Sweetwater, first and last time. I has heard these guys were bozos but not shady.

The item I bought wasn't cutting it for me so I called them up to get an RMA# This guy Matt gave me such a hard time. Their web site cleary states "No Hassle Return policy". This was beyond a hassle, I was pissed. Finally I argued with him till he agreed to take it back. So I went to fedex and shipped it back.

As a precaution I always photograph higher priced items at the shipping place before I ship them. I do this so later on ups/fedex don't say the box wasn't in good condition or improperly packaged etc.... in case of breakage.

About 5 days later I get a call from Matt at Sweetwater. He tells me I have to pay a 15% restocking fee of $150 since the shipping box had writing on it!!! Keep in mind the unit itself was mint. I was being charged 15% for writing on the outside of the box??? Total bullshit!!!!

Well I never wrote on the box and had photos to prove it. I argued with his manager for over 15 minutes!!! After 15 min. I finally told him I had photos from my camera phone clearly showing the box had no writing as they stated. Keep in mind these photos were of the package on the counter at fedex with the fedex lady in background in uniform.

Needless to say they gave me a full refund. Is this common practice at sweetwater? Lying to get the 15% restocking fee!! Do they do this to deter returns?

Sorry to go on so long but beware of Sweetwater. I knew these bozos don't know shi* about proaudio but this crosses the line of consumer rights.

Well you survived the Indianapolis I'm sure you will get through this