Smashing Pumpkins - Zeitgeist

[Diskordia]

and i saw em in Asheville and they ROCKED! the new songs sounded much better live...although the PA didn't..i could hear something clipping form time to time..or something was blown

[Jax]

SP were on Letterman tuesday night and they'll be on again Friday night. I caught their performance and it was pretty good, but the song was kind of boring. One decent but unexciting time change into a slow part, then back to the original parts. Yawn.

Jimmy was the only one worth watching. That ****er is still one of the best rock drummers ever.

Interpol was on last night. Much more fun listening, but the song didn't grab me. The singer/guitar player's Fender amp sounded amazing though.

[AlexLakis]

Originally Posted by Diskordia

and i don't know why everyone rips on Adore and Machina. I love em both..they are not full of top hit pop songs..does that make em bad?

It's not that they're bad albums persay. It's just a big letdown. They could never top their early works. They made them too good. No room to grow. Like Stone Temple Pilots.

Originally Posted by Diskordia

..or something was blown

Yeah, Billy's voice!

I saw them on the Melon Collie tour just days before their keyboardist died. It was one of the most amazing shows I've ever seen.

[bewarethanatos]

I swear I'm the only person that thinks this album isn't as bad as everyone else thinks it is.

Obviously it's no Gish, Siamese Dream, or the first half of Mellon Collie, but who expected it to be? I definitely like this album more than Machina.

IMHO, this album sounds like it was the album they should have recorded either before Adore or before Machina.

To each his own, I suppose.

[Diskordia]

i really liked the new-wavey stuff off the mellon collie b-sides(and the Future Embrace)

i hope they keep that part of the band alive somewhere..you can kind of hear it in "neverlost" which is my favorite off the album right

the doom-drone goth rock they were doin before was cool too, but i think billy is too religous now ha!

[GravityRobert]

If any of you ever stumble across Zeitgeist, the album titlesong, give it a spin. Billy with his acoustic guitar. Really nice, soothing song

(sorry I cant post links here to illegal material so you have to find it yourself)

[macleodgrant]

i don't think the production is great by any means but i also don't think it's that bad. i will give it a go and maybe it will grow on me.

by far the most irritating thing is that the vocal doesn't sound like it's part of the music like it has no ambience

[Tom Hakala]

Originally Posted by AlexLakis

No room to grow. Like Stone Temple Pilots.

IMO Purple is their masterpiece. Great great album. Love BOB's work on the album also.

I remember the day when Tiny Music came out and it was kinda let down from Purple. It still ain't better, but Tiny Music great also!

some ok song on 4 and their last studio album is boring. And I have never been a fan of Core (of course Plush was the song that got me hooked to this band).

[AlexLakis]

Originally Posted by Tom Hakala

IMO Purple is their masterpiece. Great great album. Love BOB's work on the album also.

I remember the day when Tiny Music came out and it was kinda let down from Purple. It still ain't better, but Tiny Music great also!

some ok song on 4 and their last studio album is boring. And I have never been a fan of Core (of course Plush was the song that got me hooked to this band).

Purple is my favorite is well, followed closely by Core.

Tiny Music... was like Pearl Jam's "No Code" for me. Didn't even give it a chance at the time because of some general principle that was in my young mind at the time. Auto-rejection. Now I can go back and appreciate those albums for what they are. There's no doubt that #4 and Shangri-la-di-da are the "Machina" and "Zeitgeist" of their career, although there are decent songs off of both.

I think the sound on Tiny Music is the sound that every "indie" band tries to emulate these days (even tho they don't know it.) I think they (and everyone else involved in the project) kind of invented the "indie" sound back then.

[Tom Hakala]

Originally Posted by AlexLakis

Purple is my favorite is well, followed closely by Core.

Tiny Music... was like Pearl Jam's "No Code" for me. Didn't even give it a chance at the time because of some general principle that was in my young mind at the time. Auto-rejection. Now I can go back and appreciate those albums for what they are. There's no doubt that #4 and Shangri-la-di-da are the "Machina" and "Zeitgeist" of their career, although there are decent songs off of both.

I think the sound on Tiny Music is the sound that every "indie" band tries to emulate these days (even tho they don't know it.) I think they (and everyone else involved in the project) kind of invented the "indie" sound back then.

I should really give Core another chance. I liked it a lot back in 94-95.
The sound on Tiny Music has always been something I have liked. But it can't beat Purple.

Same thing happened with me and No Code. I remember I was kinda disappointed with Vitalogy because it wasn't VS or Ten. So I had high hopes for No Code, return on the hard rock I used to love so much!


But anyway...this thread is about Smashing Pumpkins. I don't think the new album stinks soundwise. Snare is something that reminds me of St.Anger or PJ's VS. Vocals are mixed like those wouldn't be part of the song. And of course the overall sound is very squashed, but hey they are a well known main stream rock band so can you actually expect something else?

My favorite SP album is Siamese Dream!

[Henchman]

Well, I gotta be honest. Most of the Roy Thomas Baker stuff simply doen't sound amazing.
Yes, Queen made some great records, but certainly not great SOUNDING records.
I think it had more to do with the musical talent int he band, than the talent of RTB.
I think he was lucky for being at the right place at the right time.

Shoot me.

[Sword in Hand]

I don't know why everyone bashes on The Smashing Pumpkins. They haven't produced a great album for a while, but they still continue to write good songs. While I miss the angst of MCIS and SD, I think that Billy has different feelings at the moment.

The biggest letdown (overall still has some really good songs) with the new album isn't the songwriting for the most part. I think it's the production, mixing and mastering, how it sounds so overproduced. Part of the charm of previous pumpkins' albums was the grandiosity mixed with realism. Lots of distorted guitars, big drums, but with a believable scope. I think Flood and Alan Moulder had a huge hand in this, not Butch Vig. If Vig produced the last album it would have sounded very produced. If you listen to MCIS and compare it to SD, in regards to production, MCIS sounds way more natural. SD is still a great album, but it would sound completely different if it were produced by Vig today.

I hope that somehow Iha comes back on board, because he did add an element to their sound. He came up with the Zero Solo and co-wrote Mayonaise. Whatever I still love The Smashing Pumpkins, I mean Smashing Pumpkins.

[theblotted]

Originally Posted by Sword in Hand

how it sounds so overproduced.

i agree with everything except this.

i think the new album is not produced enough. billy's vocals are so dry and whatever processing was done on all the bgv's, it's way too natural for me.

billy's voice always sounded better when double tracked, like on Gish and SD.

[Sword in Hand]

I agree with you on Billy's vocals for some of the songs, but listen to the overall sound of the album in comparison to MCIS. It's way more compressed and "modern" sounding. MCIS sounds like it's own thing. That's one of the reasons it's a superior record. The production for me above all else, on Zeitgeist, is what makes it less then stellar. The vocal production doesn't do it for me. I don't think Billy is just trying to cash in, but he sounds less inspired then on previous albums. I will still buy every album he makes, but Billy needs to believe in his music again.


sword in hand

[slaves666]

I just checked out the CD yesterday, I hate the vocals, totally uninspired and the band sounds lame....no excitement.....and I though he'd knock it out of the park.

[filthyrich]

I respectfully disagree with almost all of you. First off, I haven't bought an album since melancolly, but I still consider myself a fan of sorts. I have seen them play live four times.
My girlfriend bought me the new album 5-6 days ago because I like "Tarantula." I love how the recording sounds somewhat raw and the volumes of the individual elements aren't all at max volume. To me, the mix...including vocals..."breathes." I love the sound of the drums too. Jimmy rocks. I know the mix could be technically much better, but it seems like everything I hear is overproduced (overmixed). I guess that's why it appeals to me. I dunno. I guess that's why I don't record/mix for a living.

[theblotted]

perhaps this is the reason why it doesn't sound as good or inspiring as their older albums:

http://entimg.msn.com/i/ExperienceDa...ingppromo&ch=1

they talk about how they pretty much worked on the album themselves. while it may look like Jimmy's doing the mixing, i don't think that's the case; but let's just say it wouldn't surprise me...

oh yeah, they even said the new album was all recorded to "tape". hmm, interesting...

[macleodgrant]

it's like they went for a very raw sound which is ok. i think i like it. i've seen loads of stuff done quite raw nowadays, has a bit more character so it's really just matter of perspective

[theblotted]

Originally Posted by macleodgrant

it's like they went for a very raw sound which is ok. i think i like it. i've seen loads of stuff done quite raw nowadays, has a bit more character so it's really just matter of perspective

raw is okay, but you like the vocals that up front? i've heard of +1dB vox up mixes, but not +6dB vox up mixes.... horses for courses i guess.