Software Police on Patrol...

Surfkat · 28th June 2007, 02:57 AM

http://philadelphia.craigslist.org/muc/361109773.html

I ran across this on Craigslist in Phillie, check it out. Sounds like Waves has the Software Police on patrol. While I certainly don't condone the use of pirated software and my Gold Bundle is legal (but not up to WUP), I gotta take issue with these tactics if this story is true. whaddayathink? Anybody had a visit from these guys?

Surfkat · 28th June 2007, 03:14 AM

http://philadelphia.craigslist.org/muc/361109773.html

I ran across this on Craigslist in Phillie, check it out. Sounds like Waves has the Software Police on patrol. While I certainly don't condone the use of pirated software and my Gold Bundle is legal (but not up to WUP), I gotta take issue with these tactics if this story is true. whaddayathink? Anybody had a visit from these guys?

Curve Dominant · 28th June 2007, 03:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Surfkat

http://philadelphia.craigslist.org/muc/361109773.html

I ran across this on Craigslist in Phillie, check it out. Sounds like Waves has the Software Police on patrol. While I certainly don't condone the use of pirated software and my Gold Bundle is legal (but not up to WUP), I gotta take issue with these tactics if this story is true. whaddayathink? Anybody had a visit from these guys?

I have not had a visit from Waves yet. But we don't use their crap, so they are not welcome here.

If, however, Steve Massey comes by, the red carpet gets rolled out, and the drinks are on the house.

-E @ SCD

Kiwiburger · 28th June 2007, 03:38 AM

I can't say I blame them - and anyone pirating their stuff deserves whatever they get. The moral of the story: if you don't like Wave's business model (and I certainly don't) then stay the fck away from them.

There are plenty of equal or better software vendors who are much more pleasant to deal with. PSP, Sonic Flavours, Voxengo - all good guys, at this point in time. There are a few ex good-guys going bad (like Kjaerhus introducing Challenge/Response) ... but again, if you don't like what they do, stay the fck away from them.

SparkyCanada · 28th June 2007, 03:41 AM

Interesting.

The Waves website lists their company in the US as "Waves Inc." and from Israel - "Waves Audio Ltd" - yet the Craigslist poster said it was "Waves Ltd"

mmmmm

SparkyCanada

BruceTheProduce · 28th June 2007, 03:49 AM

It's probably posted by some dude from waves that has nothing better to do but trying to scare some unWUP guys.

Just like Curve Dominant said, they aren't welcome here either.

peeder · 28th June 2007, 03:56 AM

We've gotten postings about this here.

I'm just wondering how much it will cost in time and years to repair the company's reputation from using this approach. If I were a shareholder the board would be ejected by special meeting.

Surfkat · 28th June 2007, 04:35 AM

http://philadelphia.craigslist.org/muc/361109773.html

I ran across this on Craigslist in Phillie, check it out. Sounds like Waves has the Software Police on patrol. While I certainly don't condone the use of pirated software and my Gold Bundle is legal (but not up to WUP), I gotta take issue with these tactics if this story is true. whaddayathink? Anybody had a visit from these guys?

colinmiller · 28th June 2007, 04:39 AM

I thought waves was on ilok now. Was this some old version maybe?

manthe · 28th June 2007, 05:04 AM

Thats probably how the 'spy' was able to tell that they were pirated.

I have a policy of using primarily DSP powered stuff. Mostly becasue the ones I use have a reputation for being great (which turns out to be true!), but also to avoid EVER having any issues with piracy.

While I consider it a truly slimy tactic, I still loathe piracy....its a fine line.

On the other hand, it seems REALLY strange that Waves (or anyone, for that matter) would just *randomly* pick a facility and 'case; it. In my opinion, there would have to have been some reports or a reason to send out a sentry. Maybe a pissed off intern...pissed off client/band...etc.

So, if you have no ethics and mae money with pirated software...be careful who you piss off...you mioght just get what you *deserve*!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by colinmiller

I thought waves was on ilok now. Was this some old version maybe?

narco · 28th June 2007, 06:55 AM

the last two threads about this were deleted, then locked

quote jules:

Quote:

This site is neither a network for people using cracked software to communicate nor a publicity platform for software companies hunting down people that pirate software.

Discussions about cracked software are strictly forbidden here.

I suggest the relevant parties all contact each other off the forum in private.

Its not permitted to drag legal disputes out onto the forums.

narco

manthe · 28th June 2007, 07:07 AM

I totally agree with you, but I think that going in under false pretenses...lying about why you are there, etc, etc. is a little weird...maybe a little shady...no, not shady, just...i dunno. It just seems weird to me that someone would go to a studio and try to 'con' some scumbag pirate into busting themselves. Weird...

Oh well, more power to the companies catching the pirates. As an ethical studio operator, I HATE when some a-hole cracks something I pay thousands for and makes money on it. Thats why I am so happy with the DSP stuff. I KNOW I have something that no pirate has!

Quote:

Originally Posted by pegleg

I agree that it seems unlikely that Waves is going door-to-door checking such things; there are FAR too many studios around for that to be worthwhile. Someone said something to someone...

I'm not sure I agree about the 'slimy tactic'... If you're not doing anything wrong, you're in the clear. If you are, and someone catches you - tough. You've earned it!

It does seem perfectly hypocritical to me that an industry that's crying about piracy of THEIR work (ie - illegal song downloads, CD copying) has so many people who are happy to pirate software - plug-ins or otherwise. Especially when you're using that software in your professional work.

As someone who pays for plug-ins, I don't think very highly of people using cracks of them. If they got busted by Waves, I'd laugh!

manthe · 28th June 2007, 07:15 AM

I totally agree with you, but I think that going in under false pretenses...lying about why you are there, etc, etc. is a little weird...maybe a little shady...no, not shady, just...i dunno. It just seems weird to me that someone would go to a studio and try to 'con' some scumbag pirate into busting themselves. Weird...

Oh well, more power to the companies catching the pirates. As an ethical studio operator, I HATE when some a-hole cracks something I pay thousands for and makes money on it. Thats why I am so happy with the DSP stuff. I KNOW I have something that no pirate has!

Quote:

Originally Posted by pegleg

I agree that it seems unlikely that Waves is going door-to-door checking such things; there are FAR too many studios around for that to be worthwhile. Someone said something to someone...

I'm not sure I agree about the 'slimy tactic'... If you're not doing anything wrong, you're in the clear. If you are, and someone catches you - tough. You've earned it!

It does seem perfectly hypocritical to me that an industry that's crying about piracy of THEIR work (ie - illegal song downloads, CD copying) has so many people who are happy to pirate software - plug-ins or otherwise. Especially when you're using that software in your professional work.

As someone who pays for plug-ins, I don't think very highly of people using cracks of them. If they got busted by Waves, I'd laugh!

mikemillinator · 28th June 2007, 08:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by narco

the last two threads about this were deleted, then locked

quote jules:

narco

ouch. People betta recognize.

Mikey MTC · 28th June 2007, 08:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by manthe

I totally agree with you, but I think that going in under false pretenses...lying about why you are there, etc, etc. is a little weird...maybe a little shady...no, not shady, just...i dunno. It just seems weird to me that someone would go to a studio and try to 'con' some scumbag pirate into busting themselves. Weird...

No more weird than an undercover cop going into a drug ring and befriending them for weeks or months before the big sting goes down. Sometimes being deceptive is the only way you can justify the greater good.

At the same time I do feel sorry for the people being used as test cases. A sudden bill for $16K would do a lot of little places in. But if you use it and show it ....

blaugruen7 · 28th June 2007, 09:01 AM

there was a thread on gearlsutz few weeks ago and someone talked about the exact same situation.

dragan · 28th June 2007, 09:29 AM

I'm surprised how most of these stories fail to report the fact that the plugins in question are cracked.

If someone asked me to see a plugin, even though I already said I have it.. that would raise a red flag for me.. but I'm pro-Waves, and they're welcome in our studio anytime.

Jim@SSL · 28th June 2007, 09:44 AM

Fantastic!

There should be more of this happening. I make a point of reporting sales of obviously cracked software on eBay whenever I see it. Always feels like a losing battle but let's not forget that this is software piracy.

There is a simple way to avoid getting a lawsuit like this.

BUY THE SOFTWARE YOU USE.

kafka · 28th June 2007, 02:16 PM

I guess the thing I don't understand is why a legitimate business would even have cracked software on their machines - let alone discuss it's availability with a potential customer. If that's how someone's "business" operates, they should take that as the first sign that it's time to quit and get a real job.

7161 · 28th June 2007, 03:40 PM

well why didnt they just remove them then... surely the court would need to impound the machine as evidence?, this sounds like crap cos i doubt a judge would entertain a suit based on something as flimsy as "I saw them with my own eyes" or they could just file against every studio saying "i saw the plugins"

vixapphire · 28th June 2007, 04:42 PM

I buy what I use, which includes GRM Tools (always worthy of a shout-out), but not Waves (budgets are what they are, what can I say?)...

Nonetheless, someone mentioned the potential blowback to pursuing the RIAA-style scorched earth enforcement/litigation strategy; well, here we go now! The links at this post are interesting:

http://www.concurringopinions.com/ar...turn_to_b.html

This whole area of copyright law is just beginning to get even more interesting than it already is.

slaves666 · 28th June 2007, 04:58 PM

By looking at a plugin on a screen how would one know if its cracked?

joshelevator · 28th June 2007, 05:01 PM

The FBI has made arrests of people who sell pirated software on NY craigslist.

manthe · 28th June 2007, 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slaves666

By looking at a plugin on a screen how would one know if its cracked?

In this particular case, for instance, the 'spy' may have verified that the engineer did not have an iLok inserted, which would be required to run Waves plugs...etc.

peeder · 28th June 2007, 06:03 PM

It's quite a different story going after a trafficker (especially one so brazen as to use ebay/craigslist) than to try to entrap individual studio owners that might not have full control over what's on their machines, what freelance engineers bring in, etc. I'm not trying to apologize for the pirates, but this is certainly not the way to do things, as I explained in prior posts when this came up.

I think it's pretty pitiful that people are rooting for others to face large civil penalties because they view them as unfair competition (!). I mean, seriously. You compete on who has the most plugins? And want to bust each other? It's as if you've eaten all the grubs and roaches and are now turning to cannibalism.

peeder · 28th June 2007, 06:30 PM

I'm not sure if my earlier discussion of the issue was deleted with the rest of the threads on this or not, but I'm not going to open it up again. I have extensive experience in both industries and have worked professionally on this issue in both, contributing to a very nuanced view of intellectual property as part of the overall ecosystem.

As for your analogies, comparing tangible goods within scarcity economics to intangibles is comparing apples and oranges...this is something they go over in orientation before you even get to the 101 course on this subject.

Gravity · 28th June 2007, 07:01 PM

All I gotta say is if you're a legit commercial studio, using cracked plugs, you deserve what cha get.

dlmorley · 28th June 2007, 08:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mikey MTC

No more weird than an undercover cop going into a drug ring and befriending them for weeks or months before the big sting goes down. Sometimes being deceptive is the only way you can justify the greater good.

At the same time I do feel sorry for the people being used as test cases. A sudden bill for $16K would do a lot of little places in. But if you use it and show it ....

Your example is of a COP! He is the law.
I'm not sure waves would be able to use their reps word as proof in a case.
Any half assed lawyer would have their evidence thrown out, so what is left?
The real way to do this is for the rep to report the studio to the law and they can bust the studio if they want. Alas this won't happen, but it doesn't mean waves can be the law and the judge..

Whilst I side with waves here in principle, I don't see how this can work and may backfire on them....

adrianex · 28th June 2007, 09:22 PM

Well, I do feel bad for who ever got cough (I never like kicking anybody when their down), but even thou I feel its a little bit "sneaky" (not short what word to use), Wave has the right to defend their product how ever they feel works.

backplay · 28th June 2007, 11:25 PM

I sounds more like Waves is trying to scare studio owners that use pirated software, and hoping they are gonne buy their stuff by spreading these rumours.
I've seen it on a few forums lately, including this one, that a new member appears with a post explaining that he had been conacted by a attorney and had to pay x-amount to Waves for using pirated software. The way they do it ain't even legal!!!
They learned a few tricks from the US governement, who are also verry good at scaring people!
To me it just shows that Waves is a bad companey who will do anything to sell their products...

Sill, if you want to use your plugs, you should buy them!

I must say, when i was 12 i also copied the new AC/DC record to cassette from a friend of mine. Hope that AC/DC doesn't come to my house asking if i have a copy left because they lost the masters... I'm gonne burn it straight away, you'll never know...

In the end,

Waves .

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28th June 2007, 02:57 AM	#1
Surfkat Gear maniac Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: south Jersey, USA Posts: 297 iTrader: (0)	Software Police on Patrol... http://philadelphia.craigslist.org/muc/361109773.html I ran across this on Craigslist in Phillie, check it out. Sounds like Waves has the Software Police on patrol. While I certainly don't condone the use of pirated software and my Gold Bundle is legal (but not up to WUP), I gotta take issue with these tactics if this story is true. whaddayathink? Anybody had a visit from these guys? __________________ "After silence that which comes nearest to expressing the inexpressible is music." - Aldous Huxley

28th June 2007, 03:14 AM	#2
Surfkat Gear maniac Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: south Jersey, USA Posts: 297 iTrader: (0)	Software Police on Patrol... http://philadelphia.craigslist.org/muc/361109773.html I ran across this on Craigslist in Phillie, check it out. Sounds like Waves has the Software Police on patrol. While I certainly don't condone the use of pirated software and my Gold Bundle is legal (but not up to WUP), I gotta take issue with these tactics if this story is true. whaddayathink? Anybody had a visit from these guys? __________________ "After silence that which comes nearest to expressing the inexpressible is music." - Aldous Huxley

28th June 2007, 03:49 AM	#6
BruceTheProduce Gear maniac Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Toronto Canada Posts: 164 iTrader: (0)	It's probably posted by some dude from waves that has nothing better to do but trying to scare some unWUP guys. Just like Curve Dominant said, they aren't welcome here either. __________________ Bruce _________________________________________ La Vida Es Bella Para Los Mas Fuertes.

28th June 2007, 04:35 AM	#8
Surfkat Gear maniac Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: south Jersey, USA Posts: 297 iTrader: (0)	Software Police on Patrol... http://philadelphia.craigslist.org/muc/361109773.html I ran across this on Craigslist in Phillie, check it out. Sounds like Waves has the Software Police on patrol. While I certainly don't condone the use of pirated software and my Gold Bundle is legal (but not up to WUP), I gotta take issue with these tactics if this story is true. whaddayathink? Anybody had a visit from these guys? __________________ "After silence that which comes nearest to expressing the inexpressible is music." - Aldous Huxley

28th June 2007, 03:38 AM	#4
Kiwiburger Lives for gear Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 3,596 iTrader: (0)	I can't say I blame them - and anyone pirating their stuff deserves whatever they get. The moral of the story: if you don't like Wave's business model (and I certainly don't) then stay the fck away from them. There are plenty of equal or better software vendors who are much more pleasant to deal with. PSP, Sonic Flavours, Voxengo - all good guys, at this point in time. There are a few ex good-guys going bad (like Kjaerhus introducing Challenge/Response) ... but again, if you don't like what they do, stay the fck away from them.

28th June 2007, 03:41 AM	#5
SparkyCanada Gear addict Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Saskatoon SK, Canada Posts: 330 iTrader: (0)	Interesting. The Waves website lists their company in the US as "Waves Inc." and from Israel - "Waves Audio Ltd" - yet the Craigslist poster said it was "Waves Ltd" mmmmm SparkyCanada

28th June 2007, 03:56 AM	#7
peeder Lives for gear Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 5,139 iTrader: (0)	We've gotten postings about this here. I'm just wondering how much it will cost in time and years to repair the company's reputation from using this approach. If I were a shareholder the board would be ejected by special meeting.

28th June 2007, 04:39 AM	#9
colinmiller Lives for gear Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Santa Cruz Posts: 1,066 iTrader: (0)	I thought waves was on ilok now. Was this some old version maybe?

28th June 2007, 09:01 AM	#16
blaugruen7 Lives for gear Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: berlin Posts: 1,535 iTrader: (0)	there was a thread on gearlsutz few weeks ago and someone talked about the exact same situation.

28th June 2007, 09:29 AM	#17
dragan Gear addict Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 319 iTrader: (0)	I'm surprised how most of these stories fail to report the fact that the plugins in question are cracked. If someone asked me to see a plugin, even though I already said I have it.. that would raise a red flag for me.. but I'm pro-Waves, and they're welcome in our studio anytime. __________________ Potrero Post

28th June 2007, 09:44 AM	#18
Jim@SSL Lives for gear Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Oxford, UK Posts: 610 iTrader: (0)	Fantastic! There should be more of this happening. I make a point of reporting sales of obviously cracked software on eBay whenever I see it. Always feels like a losing battle but let's not forget that this is software piracy. There is a simple way to avoid getting a lawsuit like this. BUY THE SOFTWARE YOU USE.

28th June 2007, 02:16 PM	#19
kafka Lives for gear Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 877 iTrader: (0)	I guess the thing I don't understand is why a legitimate business would even have cracked software on their machines - let alone discuss it's availability with a potential customer. If that's how someone's "business" operates, they should take that as the first sign that it's time to quit and get a real job. __________________ It looks just like a Telefunken U47 - with leather. You'll love it ...

28th June 2007, 03:40 PM	#20
7161 Lives for gear Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 541 iTrader: (0)	well why didnt they just remove them then... surely the court would need to impound the machine as evidence?, this sounds like crap cos i doubt a judge would entertain a suit based on something as flimsy as "I saw them with my own eyes" or they could just file against every studio saying "i saw the plugins" __________________ www.7161.com Free music space for artists bands & deejays Free podcasting for artists, bands & deejays

28th June 2007, 04:42 PM	#21
vixapphire Lives for gear Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 1,966 iTrader: (0)	I buy what I use, which includes GRM Tools (always worthy of a shout-out), but not Waves (budgets are what they are, what can I say?)... Nonetheless, someone mentioned the potential blowback to pursuing the RIAA-style scorched earth enforcement/litigation strategy; well, here we go now! The links at this post are interesting: http://www.concurringopinions.com/ar...turn_to_b.html This whole area of copyright law is just beginning to get even more interesting than it already is. __________________ ___________________________________ "Revolution is the opiate of intellectuals." - Anon.

28th June 2007, 04:58 PM	#22
slaves666 Lives for gear Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Montreal Posts: 1,216 iTrader: (0)	By looking at a plugin on a screen how would one know if its cracked? __________________ www.upliftproductions.com www.myspace.com/themonarchymusic

28th June 2007, 05:01 PM	#23
joshelevator Gear addict Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 437 iTrader: (0)	The FBI has made arrests of people who sell pirated software on NY craigslist. __________________ www.myspace.com/djelevatorman

28th June 2007, 06:03 PM	#25
peeder Lives for gear Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 5,139 iTrader: (0)	It's quite a different story going after a trafficker (especially one so brazen as to use ebay/craigslist) than to try to entrap individual studio owners that might not have full control over what's on their machines, what freelance engineers bring in, etc. I'm not trying to apologize for the pirates, but this is certainly not the way to do things, as I explained in prior posts when this came up. I think it's pretty pitiful that people are rooting for others to face large civil penalties because they view them as unfair competition (!). I mean, seriously. You compete on who has the most plugins? And want to bust each other? It's as if you've eaten all the grubs and roaches and are now turning to cannibalism.

28th June 2007, 06:30 PM	#26
peeder Lives for gear Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 5,139 iTrader: (0)	I'm not sure if my earlier discussion of the issue was deleted with the rest of the threads on this or not, but I'm not going to open it up again. I have extensive experience in both industries and have worked professionally on this issue in both, contributing to a very nuanced view of intellectual property as part of the overall ecosystem. As for your analogies, comparing tangible goods within scarcity economics to intangibles is comparing apples and oranges...this is something they go over in orientation before you even get to the 101 course on this subject.

28th June 2007, 07:01 PM	#27
Gravity Gear maniac Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 175 iTrader: (0)	All I gotta say is if you're a legit commercial studio, using cracked plugs, you deserve what cha get. __________________ "Very funny Scotty... Now beam down my pants!"

28th June 2007, 09:22 PM	#29
adrianex Lives for gear Join Date: May 2005 Location: Florida Posts: 695 iTrader: (0)	Well, I do feel bad for who ever got cough (I never like kicking anybody when their down), but even thou I feel its a little bit "sneaky" (not short what word to use), Wave has the right to defend their product how ever they feel works. __________________ Adrianex (a.k.a DEMORI) www.demori.net www.myspace.com/demorimusic www.soundclick.com/demorimusic

28th June 2007, 11:25 PM	#30
backplay Gear addict Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Antwerpen Posts: 408 iTrader: (0)	I sounds more like Waves is trying to scare studio owners that use pirated software, and hoping they are gonne buy their stuff by spreading these rumours. I've seen it on a few forums lately, including this one, that a new member appears with a post explaining that he had been conacted by a attorney and had to pay x-amount to Waves for using pirated software. The way they do it ain't even legal!!! They learned a few tricks from the US governement, who are also verry good at scaring people! To me it just shows that Waves is a bad companey who will do anything to sell their products... Sill, if you want to use your plugs, you should buy them! I must say, when i was 12 i also copied the new AC/DC record to cassette from a friend of mine. Hope that AC/DC doesn't come to my house asking if i have a copy left because they lost the masters... I'm gonne burn it straight away, you'll never know... In the end, Waves .