Software Police on Patrol...

[Free The Bee]

Originally Posted by planseven

So is this topic now closed? or is there something we don't know........

As far as I know, Waves haven't successfully sued anyone. The term "hot air" springs to mind.

[donsolo]

You know, Ableton actually released it's own crack...it has a timer set for 6mos and afterwards gives you an 800 number to call. You call, they're cool and are like "well, do you want to actually buy it now?" It's like an extended evaluation period.

The part I haven't really heard is the fact that we're talking about Waves.

They're becoming obsolete without DSP cards so this is their weird little tactic to keep them on the tip of our tongue.

I scope out all of my clients before allowing them into my semi-closed shop. If someone cold called me asking about Waves, I'd probably jump up the price and would require 100% upfront payment before they can set foot in the door. I don't give tours. If they want waves, I'll require they purchase it for me if I'm weirded out enough.

Sounds like there's 2 sides to this story. Waves is being silly (and probably making all of this up) and if not, people are getting too hungry to keep a good head on their shoulders.

You don't publish your address for fear of breakins, you don't give tours for fear of robbery...why would we let these people in?

My responce to the waves thing would be the same as my Protools question.

"Do you have protools?" "I have a protools frontend called digital performer, it's way better." Satisfies the losers that just want to hear the name. If it's more qualified than that I'll get into AAF interchanges and digitranslator.

"Do you have waves?" "I have a bunch of plugins and a LOT of outboard, why do you ask?" "Oh I heard it was good." "it kinda sucks actually, I'll show you some great stuff from PSP, Native Instruments and things I've made in Max/MSP, if you really need me to use waves, you're going to have to pay extra for me to go purchase it for you."

The wannabes should be satisfied and the Waves spies (fictional as they may be) will back away.

I think that they didn't forsee the fact that if you want a big market share, you're going to have to tolerate some cracking just to keep the name brand going.

At least Ableton gets it.

Stealing is wrong in case you were curious as to my stance.

[Free The Bee]

Haa haa haa heee hee hee - Waves are a joke ! !

None of the cases went to court

[bobbyblinker]

I owned a commercial studio in Nashville visited by a person who represented herself as the manager of a (out of state/unknown) band interested in renting the studio. At the time of her visit, I thought it curious that she asked so many qustions about what software was loaded on the ProTools system - now I know why. I've been accused of using unlicensed/illegal software based only on this woman's questions about the system, and have been threatened with legal action unless I buy Waves software, admit I was using illegal software and, pay a penalty. I've explained to these leeches that the system was a rental and the individual who owned the system is totally legit. I witnessed him spend three days reloading software and having to contact Digi and Waves, among others, to get the new iLok codes for his software.

Be very wary of anyone asking questions about the software you are using!

[BeerHunter]

Originally Posted by bobbyblinker

I owned a commercial studio in Nashville visited by a person who represented herself as the manager of a (out of state/unknown) band interested in renting the studio. At the time of her visit, I thought it curious that she asked so many qustions about what software was loaded on the ProTools system - now I know why. I've been accused of using unlicensed/illegal software based only on this woman's questions about the system, and have been threatened with legal action unless I buy Waves software, admit I was using illegal software and, pay a penalty. I've explained to these leeches that the system was a rental and the individual who owned the system is totally legit. I witnessed him spend three days reloading software and having to contact Digi and Waves, among others, to get the new iLok codes for his software.

Be very wary of anyone asking questions about the software you are using!

Interesting first post..... just sayin'

[peeder]

Originally Posted by BeerHunter

Interesting first post..... just sayin'

This is easily an outrageous enough pattern of behavior to inspire someone to get an account and post a warning about it.

I appreciate being informed what kind of asinine activity this company thinks is good business and I have neither purchased nor recommended any of their products since this discovery.

[Jay-]

Originally Posted by FossilTooth

And don't worry kids, I doubt Waves will be knocking on your dorm room door anytime.

Untrue, Apple is on an anti file sharing campaign in universities.

I know a guy that hired me and he told me about his getting his scholarship taken from apple, kicked out of school and hefty fine for using "Final cut pro"

Iv also known of kids going to jail installing stuff on university machines.

Especially don't do this at a university.

[BeerHunter]

Originally Posted by Jay-

Untrue, Apple is on an anti file sharing campaign in universities.

I know a guy that hired me and he told me about his getting his scholarship taken from apple, kicked out of school and hefty fine for using "Final cut pro"

Iv also known of kids going to jail installing stuff on university machines.

Especially don't do this at a university.

For the record. I don't condone piracy. That was not my point. I just find it strange that someone signs up the same day and makes one post regarding WAVE's knocking on his door.

[terminal3]

Originally Posted by BeerHunter

For the record. I don't condone piracy. That was not my point. I just find it strange that someone signs up the same day and makes one post regarding WAVE's knocking on his door.

I would find it stranger if his first post was in defense of Waves.

Seems to me maybe he was just pissed off enough to spread the warnings, especially if he wasn't actually guilty of it, and this thread may have come up on an internet search while he was trying to find out whether he was alone in it or not.

[Synthy08]

Pirated software is everywhere...i went on the hiphopgame.com message board to look for music production tips and they just have all kinds of illegal software......damn same

[BlueSprocket]

Ahhhh, software piracy. First off, my opinion is very simple, you pay for what you get one way or the other. You should pay for the services/products you consume and in turn you should be compensated for any service/product you have to offer. I little Idealistic I know, but thus far it's worked for me.

Anyways...I was working on a project quite a while back and a client was asking me what I though the best plugin for "XYZ" was. I told him what I used, and that I was quite happy with it. A few days later, he called me..."Dude, I got that plugin you were talking about. Its awesome!"

I was a little taken aback, thinking that it was a fairly expensive plugin to go out and buy if you weren't making money with it. So I asked how much he paid for it. He replied, "Oh, I didn't buy it..."

The kicker...this client...a professional software developer. This is when I put into place my explicit "Don't ask, don't tell" policy regarding gear/software/etc. I'll buy what I use, if you don't...I just don't want to know. Somehow, I feel the people who don't buy what they use have it coming in the end. Just thought I'd share that.

[peeder]

Piracy among software developers is actually a very good thing. The opportunity cost is small, but the developers are learning plenty about lots of different software offerings they otherwise wouldn't have access to, and we'll all enjoy better software as a result of it.

I've spoken about other benefits of piracy to the industry on earlier Waves threads. There's an absolutely good reason why they haven't developed a total block to software piracy, and why Apple de-dongled Logic, etc.

There are also good reasons why I pay for all the software that I use.

Originally Posted by BlueSprocket

Ahhhh, software piracy. First off, my opinion is very simple, you pay for what you get one way or the other. You should pay for the services/products you consume and in turn you should be compensated for any service/product you have to offer. I little Idealistic I know, but thus far it's worked for me.

Anyways...I was working on a project quite a while back and a client was asking me what I though the best plugin for "XYZ" was. I told him what I used, and that I was quite happy with it. A few days later, he called me..."Dude, I got that plugin you were talking about. Its awesome!"

I was a little taken aback, thinking that it was a fairly expensive plugin to go out and buy if you weren't making money with it. So I asked how much he paid for it. He replied, "Oh, I didn't buy it..."

The kicker...this client...a professional software developer. This is when I put into place my explicit "Don't ask, don't tell" policy regarding gear/software/etc. I'll buy what I use, if you don't...I just don't want to know. Somehow, I feel the people who don't buy what they use have it coming in the end. Just thought I'd share that.

[roxy]

I don't pay for ****ing plugins


WAVES SUCKS !!

WAVES SUCKS !!

WAVES SUCKS !!

[charles maynes]

Originally Posted by roxy

I don't pay for ****ing plugins


WAVES SUCKS !!

WAVES SUCKS !!

WAVES SUCKS !!

does this mean you use pirate software...?


that is not very nice you know. DHS has good reason to pay a visit...

[danijel]

Originally Posted by bobbyblinker

I owned a commercial studio in Nashville visited by a person who represented herself as the manager of a (out of state/unknown) band interested in renting the studio. At the time of her visit, I thought it curious that she asked so many qustions about what software was loaded on the ProTools system - now I know why. I've been accused of using unlicensed/illegal software based only on this woman's questions about the system, and have been threatened with legal action unless I buy Waves software, admit I was using illegal software and, pay a penalty. I've explained to these leeches that the system was a rental and the individual who owned the system is totally legit. I witnessed him spend three days reloading software and having to contact Digi and Waves, among others, to get the new iLok codes for his software.

Be very wary of anyone asking questions about the software you are using!

if you are a waves employee, than i must admit your post is very sophisticated! thumbs up for waves PR team

[henryrobinett]

Originally Posted by roxy

I don't pay for ****ing plugins


WAVES SUCKS !!

WAVES SUCKS !!

WAVES SUCKS !!

You're the exact reason Waves does this. What an asshole. Of course Waves sucks to you. YOU DON'T BUY F***ING PLUGINS????? Whoa. Get this guy outta here. You are a criminal.

[vixapphire]

Originally Posted by charles maynes

does this mean you use pirate software...?


that is not very nice you know. DHS has good reason to pay a visit...

DHS = "dickhead society"?

[vixapphire]

Originally Posted by henryrobinett

You're the exact reason Waves does this. What an asshole. Of course Waves sucks to you. YOU DON'T BUY F***ING PLUGINS????? Whoa. Get this guy outta here. You are a criminal.

then again, if he's a high school student that just uses the freebie downloads highlighted in EM and other magazines every month, along with "pluggo free" and the like, he can probably do quite a bit without buying anything.

now that i think of it, if he's got Logic he's probably all set to create good quality work without needing to buy any additional plug-ins; even moreso if he's got hardware outboard gear in the system as well.

some of the conclusion-jumping around here beggars, and nearly buggers, the mind.

oh, and for the obligatory hallelujah disclaimer: i buy all the software i use, including hardware dongle boxes like the powercore x8, etc., which is to say i've paid my indulgence and have a ticket to heaven. amen.

[charles maynes]

Originally Posted by vixapphire

DHS = "dickhead society"?

no we are all a part of that....


Dept of Homeland Security.... better watch yer six- those Israelis blew up the WTC.... They have plenty of space for you somewhere.... There is likely a black helicopter above you right now.

[henryrobinett]

Originally Posted by vixapphire

then again, if he's a high school student that just uses the freebie downloads highlighted in EM and other magazines every month, along with "pluggo free" and the like, he can probably do quite a bit without buying anything.

now that i think of it, if he's got Logic he's probably all set to create good quality work without needing to buy any additional plug-ins; even moreso if he's got hardware outboard gear in the system as well.

some of the conclusion-jumping around here beggars, and nearly buggers, the mind.

oh, and for the obligatory hallelujah disclaimer: i buy all the software i use, including hardware dongle boxes like the powercore x8, etc., which is to say i've paid my indulgence and have a ticket to heaven. amen.

Quite possible, the scenario you outlined. However I don't think I jumped to any illogical conclusion. When someone yells that they're not going to pay for any F***ing plugins, one can reasonably infer that he is expressing resentment at purchasing software, and indeed refuses to. Without making any statement indicating why or how one can use software and not pay for it, as you did, with the prevalence of piracy one would conclude stealing. If I'm wrong I apologize. But you know, I hear hoofs and tend to think horses rather zebras.

[counsel]

I am an attorney and I have a friend who runs a small studio who has received threats from banpiracy and i have looked into it a little bit for him as a favor. he suggested that I share what i found with you. I would welcome any and all input anyone has. If there are any attorneys out there reading this please let me know if you think i'm offbase etc... some people have characterized this as a scam -- as far as that goes I think yes and no.

I think Waves has real offenders out there making $$ off of unauthorized software, those people may indeed get taken to Court if they dont settle and if Waves comes to the table with real evidence saying, "we got you cold."

but there are probably many smaller studios who might be, technically, offenders (i.e. they do own or have used the unauthorized software but havent made any real $$ off of it), but Waves doesn't have any solid evidence to prevail at trial. in those instances Waves will probably try to scare you into a settlement but they dont have anything solid to back up their threats -- and that is, in a sense, a scam. i think a good indication of this scam-approach would be numerous threats from banpiracy, but no in-depth, detailed, discussion of what they have against you. in my opinion, unless you're a big offender with assets and you have a pretty good idea of your liability/what they have against you, you should not settle this claim without them showing you that they have you dead to rights.

here is what i have learned so far...

WHAT THEY HAVE TO PROVE:

#1 that they owners of the copyright (a formality in this case)
#2 that you copied the software.

obviously the question is, how can they prove #2?

they can prove you copied it by showing that you used the unauthorized software (eyewitness testimony (perhaps from fake walk-through clients?), admissions by you) -or- that you possessed it (eyewitness testimony, admissions by you, or the actual hardware itself with the software on it).

**not sure if a videotape would be admissible depending on what the wiretap statutes are where the suit is brought. havent looked at it at all, i will this week though.

**also, someone else posted above that a collection agency can't use spies, etc. they might be true, but my gut tells me that "waves audio ltd" (who would be the plaintiff) would not be considered a "collection agency."

there are two catches to remember about liability: 1) it is not necessary for the plaintiff to prove that you intended to copy the software; 2) it is not necessary for the plaintiff to prove that YOU copied the software, you can be vicariously liable if you knew about it and do nothing to stop it, profited from it, perhaps encouraged it etc.

WHAT THEY CAN GET

If they won they could get their actual damages (costs of the stolen software etc), your profits from the infringement, and their attorneys fees (you can get your attorneys fees as well if you prevail at trial).

if you were found to be a willful violator, i.e. really making $$ and f**king Waves out of their due with some premeditation etc. you could face statutory damages that could be very steep.

There are alot of studios/people who are technical violators but who really dont fit into the category of "willful." maybe they or someone that works with them got a cracked software and installed it, but they never used it, or didnt know they had it, didnt make $ from it... if you dont fit the category of "willful" you arent facing those crazy statutory damages, just actual damages and attorneys fees which might, in the end, be around the settlement numbers they have been throwing around to people...

my bottom line opinion is that if you're not a big offender with assets Waves must present its evidence to you before settlement so everyone can truly evaluate whether its worth the risk to proceed to trial. If Waves refuses to show you what they have that should give you cause for alarm. Believe me, if they had some good solid sh*t on you they would show you -- because it would lead you to settle faster.

[donsolo]

Originally Posted by counsel

my bottom line opinion is that if you're not a big offender with assets Waves must present its evidence to you before settlement so everyone can truly evaluate whether its worth the risk to proceed to trial. If Waves refuses to show you what they have that should give you cause for alarm. Believe me, if they had some good solid sh*t on you they would show you -- because it would lead you to settle faster.

Dude, if you have your paralegal look it up, this is nothing but a scare tactic. They send a form letter and demand payment just to see who will crap themselves and pay up. There isn't a case on file that Waves has brought to the American courts let alone WON.

Just like they sign up, post warnings and never post again...

Jules should block their IP address as spammers.

I'm still against piracy but due process IS due process...

[counsel]

I hope you're right. I was told by my friend that there have been some suits filed in NY but he might be mistaken.

[musikwerks]

Forgive my ignorance of American law, but if Waves sent a "fake" client through, could that not be considered entrapment?

[counsel]

"Forgive my ignorance of American law, but if Waves sent a "fake" client through, could that not be considered entrapment?"

From what I know the defense of 'entrapment' applies to criminal situations, I don't think it would apply in a civil lawsuit. regardless, the only way the situation would come close to entrapment is if the fake client is asking or offering to pay you to to make or use an unauthorized copy of the software.

[donsolo]

Originally Posted by counsel

I hope you're right. I was told by my friend that there have been some suits filed in NY but he might be mistaken.

Nice post #3...

How is Israel this time of year?

[soundguydave]

Am I reading this thread right that Waves not only sues for cracked plugins, but for using on a Waves Demo on a paying job? That just doesn't sound legal.

[counsel]

Originally Posted by donsolo

Nice post #3...

How is Israel this time of year?

uh... yeah dude, and now it's post #4.

not pretending to be a studio owner or engineer. if you read my original post (i know, it's kind of lengthy) you will see that I am helping out a friend who i think is being scammed and harassed by banpiracy/waves, who have been sending him numerous threats, asking him to settle, without providing him with a shred of real evidence to back up their claim.