Software Police on Patrol...

[vixapphire]

i don't know whether it's possible to record your own impulses for the Liquid Channel, but why not spend the $3k on one of those, get what it comes with, and then sample the Waves demo into it!

that would be cruel, ironic, and very satisfying, i'm sure.

[terminal3]

Originally Posted by rvwainscott

Ya know, my partner and I always do our best to impress visitors and I'm crushed to think that this might have been an industry spy. We really struggle running this business in this current difficult climate and now I've got to worry that the person calling me on the phone is out to entrap me.

Finally, I was seriously considering upgrading to the Mercury Bundle but now I'm not so sure. . .maybe I will invest in some more outboard gear!

If you do decide to not spend more money with Waves, make sure you write them and tell them why - also write to Yamaha, they're a fairly big shareholder.

This is the only way they're going to realise that they're offending people and possibly losing sales because of their business practises...

[Fretbored]

Really. When do artists ever insist on seeing your plugins. Idiots. I received the visit too. When he insisted on seeing my plugins, I noted that I use anything but waves. "I tried a cracked version one time...it wasn't worth the time the poor guy took to steal it...bless his heart." Oh, and let me tell you, he wanted to know who the heck this guy was. So the conversation continues...
HIM-"Who was it that had the cracked version, was it really you."
ME -"Oh no! The only waves my computer will ever see waves is when I eventually get pissed off to the point where I throw it in the lake."
HIM- Really. I've only had great experience with waves..."
ME - "You should be more concerned with the engineer's experience than his plugins, and just for the record, I think waves could care less about what engineers think of their product, and more about revenue.
OH YES I DID!

[noiseflaw]

Originally Posted by Fretbored

"You should be more concerned with the engineer's experience than his plugins, and just for the record, I think waves could care less about what engineers think of their product, and more about revenue.
OH YES I DID!

Well done!

Waves are getting itchy, angry and paranoid - it may yet be the worst PR move they make... we will see.

I understand their legitimate concern about Piracy - I honestly sympathise with them, but catching a handful of offending commercial studios is not going to fix their issue.

They are totally lacking in imagination in the way they are addressing their problem, and it is a strange anomaly that one of the foremost plugin developers in the world cannot negotiate the terrain of the audio software world.

I still use their plugs but I cringe and shake my head at the clumsy and inept routes they seem to be taking theses days.

The creativity, grace, intelligence and brilliance used to develop and create their high class products is completely lost when the Management step up to play their role.

It is very clear where the real expertise of that company lies.

[altoidboy]

i am *loving* these 1st person stories of undercover waves visits to studios. i am totally cracking up at them.

i stand by waves' rights to protect their software, but this just reinforces a (very already solid) impression i had that waves is entirely out of touch and must be very desperate to try stuff like this.

don't they even see that the ton of bad pr they're going to get out of this far eclipses one or two (longshot) legal battles they might win? they are going to pay for this so badly in pr that even less people will be interested in buying their product.

and it sounds like the undercover spies aren't all that good at spying either. if one of them visited me, i'd be smelling a rat right off the bat, what with all this "no, i want to see it on the screen!" type talk!

[rvwainscott]

Originally Posted by Fretbored

Really. When do artists ever insist on seeing your plugins. Idiots. I received the visit too. When he insisted on seeing my plugins, I noted that I use anything but waves. "I tried a cracked version one time...it wasn't worth the time the poor guy took to steal it...bless his heart." Oh, and let me tell you, he wanted to know who the heck this guy was. So the conversation continues...
HIM-"Who was it that had the cracked version, was it really you."
ME -"Oh no! The only waves my computer will ever see waves is when I eventually get pissed off to the point where I throw it in the lake."
HIM- Really. I've only had great experience with waves..."
ME - "You should be more concerned with the engineer's experience than his plugins, and just for the record, I think waves could care less about what engineers think of their product, and more about revenue.
OH YES I DID!

Say, the guy that visited me said he was with a label located in Miami. He said his "label" wanted to scout facilities in Phoenix so that they could maintain a "list" of regional studios so their artists wouldn't all have to travel to Miami. The story seemed a bit strange. He didn't give me a business card nor did he give me a web addess or any of the work the label has done.

What story did he tell you?

I would love to know if these guys work on commission or are they salary.

BTW, I have decided to send them a bill for my time.

Robert V. Wainscott
Full Clip Audio
MySpace.com - Full Clip Studio - 100 - Male - PHOENIX, Arizona - www.myspace.com/fullclipstudio

[WeekendWanker]

Originally Posted by rvwainscott

BTW, I have decided to send them a bill for my time.

Here's an interesting strategy: bill Waves, when they ignore the bill, sue them in small claims court for non-payment. The filing fees are cheap and if they don't show up, you'll win a judgement.

[terminal3]

They have a website now for their campaign of terror...

www.banpiracy.com

Wonder how many other software developers are signing up to this rather draconian project...

[superburtm]

Originally Posted by WeekendWanker

Here's an interesting strategy: bill Waves, when they ignore the bill, sue them in small claims court for non-payment. The filing fees are cheap and if they don't show up, you'll win a judgement.

haha!! THAT IS CLASSIC!

[bexarametric]

If waves just did things like UAD (requiring a card), then they wouldn't be having these problems. Also, it would free up the CPU. Seems like a winning solution to me.

[trickydicky]

If Apple can make 'uncrackable' software using dongle protection, why can't everyone else?

IDIOTS!

[noiseflaw]

Originally Posted by trickydicky

If Apple can make 'uncrackable' software using dongle protection, why can't everyone else?

IDIOTS!

Yes,

Show me a working crack of Logic Pro 7........There isn't one.

I guess Waves only real alternative would be to go the same route.

Replace the iLok with it's own Proprietory 'Military Grade' key.

I would have no problem with that.

But Waves will not do that because I'm sure it would further alienate it's current customers.

As a sweetner they could bundle a useful killer plug with the new key - which would of course have to be supplied free of charge. (this is where the WUP Policy would make particular sense)

It would protect them for their future generation of plugins...

[8BallProductions]

I KNOW of 2 Studios that have been busted for craced plugins in the last 4 months and theres more in the UK,

it was 2 peeps and guy and his wife pretending to be muso's from teliveeve .. (i cant spell that sorry)

but they came to the studio and asked loads of questions to the engineers ...

2 months later .. they were both delivered writ's to pay damages of over $25,000

Spread that on your toast an eat it when u open your mail in the morning ...

YUMMY !!!

[superburtm]

I am now gonna wash my my hands of all subjects waves. I will speak no more about them.

Best of luck everybody

[vixapphire]

Originally Posted by noiseflaw

Yes,

Show me a working crack of Logic Pro 7........There isn't one.

I guess Waves only real alternative would be to go the same route.

Replace the iLok with it's own Proprietory 'Military Grade' key.

I would have no problem with that.

But Waves will not do that because I'm sure it would further alienate it's current customers.

As a sweetner they could bundle a useful killer plug with the new key - which would of course have to be supplied free of charge. (this is where the WUP Policy would make particular sense)

It would protect them for their future generation of plugins...

I don't think customers would mind a dongle for Waves; we're already conditioned to accept the practice by the Logic XS key and the iLok.

[studiopl]

Just on a little off topic, my mate who is a pro audio dealer has told me not to buy anymore Waves plug-ins (even though I would buy them from his company) since "there long term support is looking very shaky".
I don't own any waves stuff but was interested in the SSL bundle until then, but if WUP and support stopped I would be stuck if something went wrong.
Anyone else know anything about this, I've asked on other boards but no one knows.
studiopl

[noiseflaw]

Originally Posted by studiopl

..."there long term support is looking very shaky".

Anyone else know anything about this, I've asked on other boards but no one knows.
studiopl

Sounds highly improbable and you really need to call that dealer out on it....seriously - he cannot just drop a waiting grenade like that on you and walk away.

As I said - ask him to qualify that statement as 'fact' and not personal speculation or rumour, if he can't - it's a vey irresponsible thing to say, I mean c'mon, Waves brings out SSL, Neve, and API bundles aswell as Mercury Bundle, then it identifies and prosecutes illegal users...

What and then it closes business.


Naaah.


Nonsense.

[trickydicky]

Originally Posted by noiseflaw

Yes,

Show me a working crack of Logic Pro 7........There isn't one.

I guess Waves only real alternative would be to go the same route.

Replace the iLok with it's own Proprietory 'Military Grade' key.

I would have no problem with that.

But Waves will not do that because I'm sure it would further alienate it's current customers.

As a sweetner they could bundle a useful killer plug with the new key - which would of course have to be supplied free of charge. (this is where the WUP Policy would make particular sense)

It would protect them for their future generation of plugins...

Exactly... in fact, there isn't even a working crack of Emagic Logic Pro 6.

Waves and other software companies should take note and stop skimping on hardware dongle protection. It might cost a bit in terms of R+D and manufacturing costs, but boy would they all save a SHITLOAD in the future.

I guess the only issue would be that we'd all need 24-port USB hubs!

[heathen]

Originally Posted by wallace

A collection agency using spies to come to studios under false pretenses is a violation of the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act.

The Fair Debt Collection Practices Act

Naughty naughty waves!

[bexarametric]

I have the UAD stuff and I like it better than Waves. Waves has a couple cool plugins, but overall I have never been impressed with their stuff. I always felt it was overpriced (and it is). You would be surprised how much margin dealers make off selling their stuff. I am happy to report that all my software is legit and there are no Waves plugins.

[capone48048]

Noone would rob you of your Jordans if they were payless priced.
Pretty bad when a CD of data can cost more than a poor mans dream car.
If things didnt cost so much these days I think people would make more purchases.

[Duardo]

A collection agency using spies to come to studios under false pretenses is a violation of the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act.

Does it really? Because they're not collecting debts...

[noiseflaw]

Originally Posted by patrox247

I don't know if this means anything, but a new member just joined Gearslutz by the screen name of " ban piracy ". Is this a message ? Are they watching ?

D'ya know what I say

BAN - Ban Piracy!

[altoidboy]

i'm with you, bexarametric. i have uad and find that it sounds just as good if not better than waves, and it is 100% solid with no flakiness on the programming or the business side of things.

uad all the way (along with other fine and friendly manufacturers such as psp and wave arts and so on)

[noiseflaw]

Originally Posted by altoidboy

i'm with you, bexarametric. i have uad and find that it sounds just as good if not better than waves, and it is 100% solid with no flakiness on the programming or the business side of things.

uad all the way (along with other fine and friendly manufacturers such as psp and wave arts and so on)

Aaah...
The old UAD story.

Yes they got the dongle bit right, but I haven't bought into their 2-3 instances per card.

I can probably pull up 30 instances of my Waves Neve plugs to about 3 per card of UAD.

I will put up with Waves business practices 'cos they do not bother me so much.

A Quad Core Mac beast waiting to unleash its power and fury and a UAD card willing to give me small change dsp on my high end plugs........

Now that's a business practice I cannot tolerate

[slaves666]

I think a card is the best idea, Waves also had APA units, dunno if they still sell them.....but there are other ways to have copy protection that can't be cracked....

I wonder how much they think piracy actually costs them....and I don't mean the pimple faced kid who downloads it to fix up MP3's...I mean actual studio's and post-houses. 1 in 10, 1 in 100?

[manthe]

I have 4 UAD cards and almost every single plug-in. The cost of putting that together has been roughly $3000 over time. That is less than the cost of most 'quality' Waves bundles and I NEVER EVER, EVER have to pay them for those cards or pluging EVER EVER again!!

I regularly do mixes of 30 and 40 + tracks. I use my UAD plugs for the majority of my ITB mixing. I use a large variety of the plugs. I really never have issues.

I'm honestly not trying to be adversarial, but I disagree with your point, and I wanted to voice my experience. What you're saying may work out on paper, but it never seems to play out in real life for me. I can think of 1 (honestly ONE) time since I've had 4 cards where I had a plug that couldn't load. But it turns out that I was not out of DSP, it was UAD's lousy card/plug-in dispersement management that was the culprit. I juggled the plug-ins around a bit and I was back in business.

Perhaps it is mixing styles that come in to play. I am not the type to put 2 or 3 plugs on every track. But, I certainly have mixes with 30 + UAD plugs loaded all over the place without issue. Sure, I could only load 16 or 18 1073s or 1081s if I wanted to, or 33609s, etc. But I tend to shy away from putting such heavily 'colored' plugs on a lot of tracks.

I just have NOT found it to be a limitation.

PS - My Duende has never been a limitation either! I have an extremely powerful, new computer. It would be quite capable of running a lot of plug-ins. I do have several native plugs, plus a bunch of synths. I didn't buy the Duende or the UADs to save CPU power, I got them because of the high quality and fantastic sound. I also happen to appreciate the built-in piracy protection the DSP driven software has. It also gives my small, un-impressive studio something that not everyone has....especially the software pirates!

Originally Posted by noiseflaw

Aaah...
The old UAD story.

Yes they got the dongle bit right, but I haven't bought into their 2-3 instances per card.

I can probably pull up 30 instances of my Waves Neve plugs to about 3 per card of UAD.

I will put up with Waves business practices 'cos they do not bother me so much.

A Quad Core Mac beast waiting to unleash its power and fury and a UAD card willing to give me small change dsp on my high end plugs........

Now that's a business practice I cannot tolerate