Software Police on Patrol... - Page 6

superburtm · 3rd August 2007, 11:12 PM

any news?

e-cue · 3rd August 2007, 11:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by superburtm

any news?

Yes. Turns out the original poster was oj's 'real killer' and was also the one that hid the wmd's.

vixapphire · 4th August 2007, 05:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by e-cue

Yes. Turns out the original poster was oj's 'real killer' and was also the one that hid the wmd's.

and the reason things have quieted down around here is apparently because the guy that sent out all the letters has apparently disappeared up his own arse!

R3k · 4th August 2007, 07:01 AM

If you're running a professional studio with real "clients", then you're an ass IMO if you aren't paying for your software. If you don't, who will?

But a teenager smoking bongs and writing, say drum & bass in his parents basement 3:am in the morning on his dell PC........I'd say go for it

.

Silver Sonya · 4th August 2007, 04:07 PM

Cracked software in a professional studio in 2007 is the tackiest idea ever.

If you have cracked software in your studio, you have no taste. That's the greatest sin. Sure it's unethical, but more importantly, it's just plain gross from an aesthetic standpoint. No class.

Everyone who uses cracked software in their studio should be forced to wear a lime-green polyester suit with "I use cracked software and I call myself a professional" stitched on the back.

That should be Waves' punishment.

- c

manthe · 4th August 2007, 04:47 PM

You'd be *shocked* at how many people thought that your idea would be the 'coolest thing ever...'

Very 'emo'....very punk-rock!

Software piracy is childish. Maybe I'm just naive, but I couldn't imagine that an *actual*, professional, commercial studio would have pirated software on their systems. It would boggle my mind.

How could you have a rack full of $125,000.00 worth of gear, next to a $3500 Mac/PC, with $2000 worth of stolen software???

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silver Sonya

Cracked software in a professional studio in 2007 is the tackiest idea ever.

If you have cracked software in your studio, you have no taste. That's the greatest sin. Sure it's unethical, but more importantly, it's just plain gross from an aesthetic standpoint. No class.

Everyone who uses cracked software in their studio should be forced to wear a lime-green polyester suit with "I use cracked software and I call myself a professional" stitched on the back.

That should be Waves' punishment.

- c

noiseflaw · 4th August 2007, 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by planseven

... I didn't have Waves, and was waiting for a confirmed booking before either getting a copy

Three months later I had a letter from Waves' solicitors saying that they had evidence that I had an unlicensed copy of Waves Gold Bundle and that they would instigate court proceedings

Perhaps I misunderstand but how can you be sued for saying you own a piece of software - when you do not own it and do not have it on your computer!

If Waves had Video evidence, what did this evidence consist of.

Either you had an unlicensed copy on your computer or you did not.

Please explain, I am confused.

If Waves tried to sue you for 'lying' then they are INSANE and have clearly lost the Plot - Were they playing some perverted kind of Poker Game, trying to call your Bluff - speculating that you had a copy on your computer WITHOUT PROPER MATERIAL EVIDENCE...

Waves needs help.

planseven · 6th August 2007, 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by noiseflaw

Perhaps I misunderstand but how can you be sued for saying you own a piece of software - when you do not own it and do not have it on your computer!

If Waves had Video evidence, what did this evidence consist of.

Either you had an unlicensed copy on your computer or you did not.

Please explain, I am confused.

If Waves tried to sue you for 'lying' then they are INSANE and have clearly lost the Plot - Were they playing some perverted kind of Poker Game, trying to call your Bluff - speculating that you had a copy on your computer WITHOUT PROPER MATERIAL EVIDENCE...

Waves needs help.

The video evidence consists of me showing my computer (without Waves on it) and me saying that although I had a copy of Waves I had never installed it on my computer, never used it and thought that Universal Audio plug ins were better so I would recommend using them instead.

Animus · 6th August 2007, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by planseven

The video evidence consists of me showing my computer (without Waves on it) and me saying that although I had a copy of Waves I had never installed it on my computer, never used it and thought that Universal Audio plug ins were better so I would recommend using them instead.

At most the could only accuse you of lying cause you don't have to produce this "uninstalled" copy of Waves. lol They are just bullying to try and get some quick cash and doubt they would go to the expense and time to take it to court except if it was the most grievous of offenses.

Blackwater · 7th August 2007, 02:42 PM

Ya know... I'm a registered and licensed user of Waves products but just for the hell of it I thought I would see just how easy it is to acquire cracked Waves stuff on the net. I only spent an hour last night searching the net but I have to say that I didn't come across any site that made it easy for me to download free waves plug ins. Maybe I'm not schooled in plug in crime but you would think That I would have been able to find a couple sites that would make it easy for me to download cracked versions after registering on their warez sites. Maybe this is good news for the software industry or maybe I'm a dork when it comes to being street savvy on the net. I think the latter is probably true.

Stealing is stealing for sure.

Chris

slaves666 · 7th August 2007, 03:53 PM

3 seconds on a google search and you can find them......pity. You work hard, do the right thing, yet they are there for free for everyone with no conscience.

vixapphire · 7th August 2007, 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by manthe

You'd be *shocked* at how many people thought that your idea would be the 'coolest thing ever...'

Very 'emo'....very punk-rock!

Software piracy is childish. Maybe I'm just naive, but I couldn't imagine that an *actual*, professional, commercial studio would have pirated software on their systems. It would boggle my mind.

How could you have a rack full of $125,000.00 worth of gear, next to a $3500 Mac/PC, with $2000 worth of stolen software???

man, when I was working as a professional engineer, the number of chiselers in this business of music never ceased to amaze me, so it should come as no surprise that such chiselheads would be running cracks.

incidentally, are you the moonface of "synchronized knowledge" fame?

vixapphire · 7th August 2007, 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blackwater

Ya know... I'm a registered and licensed user of Waves products but just for the hell of it I thought I would see just how easy it is to acquire cracked Waves stuff on the net. I only spent an hour last night searching the net but I have to say that I didn't come across any site that made it easy for me to download free waves plug ins. Maybe I'm not schooled in plug in crime but you would think That I would have been able to find a couple sites that would make it easy for me to download cracked versions after registering on their warez sites. Maybe this is good news for the software industry or maybe I'm a dork when it comes to being street savvy on the net. I think the latter is probably true.

Stealing is stealing for sure.

Chris

my experience is similar, which led me to conclude several years ago that the time value of money doesn't justify going after cracks - it's cheaper to buy what you need and/or make do with what you've got. keeps your head in a musical/productive space as opposed to devoting mental bandwidth to strategizing the art of the scam...

and once purchased, no worries about the Man crawling up your back!

Blackwater · 8th August 2007, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vixapphire

my experience is similar, which led me to conclude several years ago that the time value of money doesn't justify going after cracks - it's cheaper to buy what you need and/or make do with what you've got. keeps your head in a musical/productive space as opposed to devoting mental bandwidth to strategizing the art of the scam...

and once purchased, no worries about the Man crawling up your back!

Exactly!!

Judge Judy · 8th August 2007, 07:24 PM

Well I'd like to see WAVES try and bring this in front of MY court!

APOHStudios · 8th August 2007, 11:44 PM

Quote:

Well I'd like to see WAVES try and bring this in front of MY court!

Uhhh ----- Okay

GroovnD313 · 9th August 2007, 05:43 AM

Waves made a couple "big busts" in Atlanta last month. Reginal reps. asked Waves HQ to go easy on the Engineers/Studios and Waves HQ said the would fire any rep caught talking to engineers about this matter.

peeder · 9th August 2007, 06:02 AM

Would anybody like to hire their better software engineers? I'm sure telecommuting from abroad is no problem for most software companies these days. They have skilled engineers, and if I were one of them, I certainly wouldn't want to be part of a company that's ruining other people's lives.

I encourage Waves engineers to contact other companies for employment opportunities, or consider forming their own ventures like Mr. Massey did. I certainly have left my share of employers/clients that I would feel ashamed of associating myself with, and I've never regretted doing so for a minute.

Crandak · 9th August 2007, 05:28 PM

Whether you make money from it or not, stealing is wrong... period. There is no gray area!

If the software used to make music is stolen, then the right to bitch when the music is stolen is forfeited.

What makes this so fun is that so many people have either lost, or never acquired the capacity to see that stealing is wrong. This whole industry is sinking because of it.

peeder · 9th August 2007, 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by patrox247

Indeed....Growing as a person is infinately more important than growing as an engineer.

My message to Waves precisely...

terminal3 · 9th August 2007, 10:44 PM

http://www.prosoundnewseurope.com/in...=463&Itemid=26

peeder · 10th August 2007, 07:32 AM

Here I thought of a couple of metaphors for you guys to help you understand how stupid this is.

A shopkeeper gets a chance to rent commercial space at the corner of a major train station. The corner unit has large doors on either side, and some 10,000 people per day have a tendency of walking through the store to cut the corner on their commute. This generates a lot of wear and tear on the floor and carpeting in the store.

STUPID SHOPKEEPER: "My God! I'm going to have to replace that carpet every six months with all those people going through. I'm going to put ropes across the openings and have my staff confront anyone that looks like they're cutting through my store. Curse those people!"

SMART SHOPKEEPER: "So is this for real? You mean I can have 10 THOUSAND PEOPLE A DAY walk through my store? And all it's going to cost is a new carpet every six months? WHERE DO I SIGN?!?!?!?"

The same can be said for "CUSTOMER RESTROOM ONLY." What the sign really means is, "PEOPLE WHO WON'T MAKE A MESS AND WILL HOPEFULLY BUY THINGS FROM US SOMEDAY, ONLY."

In both cases, there is a small cost involved to the shopkeeper: they have to replace carpets and clean restrooms more often than they would otherwise have to. But what the general public doesn't understand is the concept of acquisition costs: the cost of obtaining a customer, and a sale from that customer. Acquisition costs are for many industries a significant line item, and for intellectual property such as music and software, acquisition costs are the most significant line item.

What software piracy does is let people who don't buy anything use the restroom and walk across the store. Hopefully they will look at the merchandise. Maybe they will even steal some merchandise...and in those metaphorical cases, they often do.

Fruits and vegetables used to be sold like meat is at a butcher: behind a counter, with someone on staff picking them out for you. The stupid shopkeepers of those days might have experimented with putting fruit out, but they probably ushered the stock back behind the counter the moment they noticed some had gone missing. Well sure enough fruit is still stolen...I myself just ate a gorgeous white fig without paying for it. I also spent $45 on things I probably didn't need in the same store. Cost of fig: 15 cents. Maybe.

It's not something they're going to out and tell you...the shopkeepers want you to buy. They want you to feel guilty for stealing. They want to remind you that they are in business, and that there could be a stick somewhere to go along with those carrots.

But a shopkeeper that runs out and threatens a customer who stole a fig? Used the bathroom without buying anything? Walked across the store as a shortcut? A shopkeeper that pulls the fruit back behind a counter? They're headed south in a hurry. They won't survive in a competitive market against those who understand how to factor acquisition costs into the equation.

And with software, these factors are even greater. Way greater. As if distilled to an essence. And exponentially reinforced via a network effect.

And in this case, Waves isn't just scolding its potentials...it's possibly ruining their lives by bankrupting them and running them straight out of this industry.

Dumb company. Not just dumb company, toxic company. I'm sure just about everyone in Silicon Valley who actually understands this as a business and has heard of this is more than shaking their heads over it. It's category killing. It threatens to spread to more dumb CEOs. Where will this end?

...And Universal decides to join EMI and ditches copy protection on its music this morning...

superburtm · 10th August 2007, 07:39 AM

WAVES will never get another cent from me EVER

blockrockin · 10th August 2007, 01:20 PM

how could they use a "secret video tape" in court ? the tape could be edited to say and show anything they wanted. ?

superburtm · 10th August 2007, 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blockrockin

how could they use a "secret video tape" in court ? the tape could be edited to say and show anything they wanted. ?

You know that is an excellent point

vixapphire · 10th August 2007, 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by superburtm

WAVES will never get another cent from me EVER

Bonzo, you need to edit this post to say "another red cent". sounds more "Yosemite Sam", if you know what i mean.

p.s. that Bonzo pic has always been one of my favorites.

Peeder, sounds like those two idiot shopkeepers need to put down tile or finished concrete instead of carpet!

terminal3 · 10th August 2007, 10:43 PM

Although I'm firmly against software piracy of any sort, I don't think that Waves are doing themselves any PR favours. I'd be fascinated to see if any of the people/companies who received 'letters' decide to take this any further and allow it to go to court... I'm no expert, and I'm actually probably barely a layperson when it comes to the law but this just all seems very, very wrong on Waves' part...

superburtm · 11th August 2007, 05:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vixapphire

Bonzo, you need to edit this post to say "another red cent". sounds more "Yosemite Sam", if you know what i mean.

p.s. that Bonzo pic has always been one of my favorites.

Peeder, sounds like those two idiot shopkeepers need to put down tile or finished concrete instead of carpet!

haha

[b]Do not give waves anymore money![/B] Buy hardware..it retains value (actually increases)

superburtm · 11th August 2007, 05:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe Porto

What ever you think of Waves, that's your business. I tried their stuff back with waves 2.0 and thought it was overpriced crap. Then again, I'm not a big fan of plugins at all.

I also have no problem using cracked software if I own a legitimate copy and the copy protection scheme is invasive enough to cause me downtime during a reinstall.

That said, any professional recording studio that is pirating software has it coming to them. To use pirated software on projects that are generating income is criminal. It's that simple.

What would you think about your accountant if he told you he was using a cracked version of quickbooks pro to do your taxes?

What if you were at a law firm and the staff was bragging that they used a cracked version of MS Office?

How about the next time your at the market, the checkout staff is pointing out the cracked POS software they are ringing your merchandise with.

If a recording studio wants to be seen as professional, then they better act professional.

agreed..thats why I purchased my Bundle clear back in '99. But oh wait I forgot Now you have to pay WUP fees just to keep your software that you bought from being totally oboslete..and you stilll have to pay for the upgrade on top of that .

]

I can't condone their actions or support this company by giving them my money any longer.

AND NOW this spy shit

PLEASE...adios waves

planseven · 11th August 2007, 02:09 PM

So maybe those of us who feel strongly about these underhand and bullying tactics aimed at innocent people and people whom they merely suspect of being unlicensed users should start making some noise about it........Wikipedia might be a good start, together with letters to the music press, Mix, Pro Sound News, Audio Media,Tape Op etc etc. Incidentally, I hear that there is a very interesting exclusive on the subject in the forthcoming Pro Sound News..............
Why does the phrase 'hoist with their own petard' come to mind?

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4th August 2007, 04:07 PM	#155
Silver Sonya Lives for gear Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Washington, DC Posts: 1,338	Wrong is bad, tacky is worse Cracked software in a professional studio in 2007 is the tackiest idea ever. If you have cracked software in your studio, you have no taste. That's the greatest sin. Sure it's unethical, but more importantly, it's just plain gross from an aesthetic standpoint. No class. Everyone who uses cracked software in their studio should be forced to wear a lime-green polyester suit with "I use cracked software and I call myself a professional" stitched on the back. That should be Waves' punishment. - c

7th August 2007, 02:42 PM	#160
Blackwater Gear addict Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Webster N.H. Posts: 498	Ya know... I'm a registered and licensed user of Waves products but just for the hell of it I thought I would see just how easy it is to acquire cracked Waves stuff on the net. I only spent an hour last night searching the net but I have to say that I didn't come across any site that made it easy for me to download free waves plug ins. Maybe I'm not schooled in plug in crime but you would think That I would have been able to find a couple sites that would make it easy for me to download cracked versions after registering on their warez sites. Maybe this is good news for the software industry or maybe I'm a dork when it comes to being street savvy on the net. I think the latter is probably true. Stealing is stealing for sure. Chris __________________ Chris Westerman Blackwater Sound and Mastering __________________________ ______________ "That Kick drum is so subliminal, It's Animal!"

7th August 2007, 03:53 PM	#161
slaves666 Lives for gear Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Montreal Posts: 1,357	3 seconds on a google search and you can find them......pity. You work hard, do the right thing, yet they are there for free for everyone with no conscience. __________________ www.upliftproductions.com www.myspace.com/themonarchymusic

8th August 2007, 07:24 PM	#165
Judge Judy Gear interested Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: comfy cusion Posts: 2	Well I'd like to see WAVES try and bring this in front of MY court! __________________ Do NOT talk when I'm talking!!

3rd August 2007, 11:12 PM	#151
superburtm Lives for gear Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 2,351	any news?

4th August 2007, 07:01 AM	#154
R3k Gear maniac Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 191	If you're running a professional studio with real "clients", then you're an ass IMO if you aren't paying for your software. If you don't, who will? But a teenager smoking bongs and writing, say drum & bass in his parents basement 3:am in the morning on his dell PC........I'd say go for it .

9th August 2007, 05:43 AM	#167
GroovnD313 Gear maniac Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Atlanta Posts: 167	Waves made a couple "big busts" in Atlanta last month. Reginal reps. asked Waves HQ to go easy on the Engineers/Studios and Waves HQ said the would fire any rep caught talking to engineers about this matter.

9th August 2007, 06:02 AM	#168
peeder Lives for gear Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Working on my skills more =) Posts: 6,090	Would anybody like to hire their better software engineers? I'm sure telecommuting from abroad is no problem for most software companies these days. They have skilled engineers, and if I were one of them, I certainly wouldn't want to be part of a company that's ruining other people's lives. I encourage Waves engineers to contact other companies for employment opportunities, or consider forming their own ventures like Mr. Massey did. I certainly have left my share of employers/clients that I would feel ashamed of associating myself with, and I've never regretted doing so for a minute.

9th August 2007, 05:28 PM	#169
Crandak Gear nut Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 131	Whether you make money from it or not, stealing is wrong... period. There is no gray area! If the software used to make music is stolen, then the right to bitch when the music is stolen is forfeited. What makes this so fun is that so many people have either lost, or never acquired the capacity to see that stealing is wrong. This whole industry is sinking because of it.

9th August 2007, 10:44 PM	#171
terminal3 Lives for gear Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: London, UK Posts: 1,435	It's official, maybe? http://www.prosoundnewseurope.com/in...=463&Itemid=26

10th August 2007, 07:32 AM	#172
peeder Lives for gear Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Working on my skills more =) Posts: 6,090	Here I thought of a couple of metaphors for you guys to help you understand how stupid this is. A shopkeeper gets a chance to rent commercial space at the corner of a major train station. The corner unit has large doors on either side, and some 10,000 people per day have a tendency of walking through the store to cut the corner on their commute. This generates a lot of wear and tear on the floor and carpeting in the store. STUPID SHOPKEEPER: "My God! I'm going to have to replace that carpet every six months with all those people going through. I'm going to put ropes across the openings and have my staff confront anyone that looks like they're cutting through my store. Curse those people!" SMART SHOPKEEPER: "So is this for real? You mean I can have 10 THOUSAND PEOPLE A DAY walk through my store? And all it's going to cost is a new carpet every six months? WHERE DO I SIGN?!?!?!?" The same can be said for "CUSTOMER RESTROOM ONLY." What the sign really means is, "PEOPLE WHO WON'T MAKE A MESS AND WILL HOPEFULLY BUY THINGS FROM US SOMEDAY, ONLY." In both cases, there is a small cost involved to the shopkeeper: they have to replace carpets and clean restrooms more often than they would otherwise have to. But what the general public doesn't understand is the concept of acquisition costs: the cost of obtaining a customer, and a sale from that customer. Acquisition costs are for many industries a significant line item, and *for intellectual property such as music and software, acquisition costs are the* most significant line item.** What software piracy does is let people who don't buy anything use the restroom and walk across the store. Hopefully they will look at the merchandise. Maybe they will even steal some merchandise...and in those metaphorical cases, they often do. Fruits and vegetables used to be sold like meat is at a butcher: behind a counter, with someone on staff picking them out for you. The stupid shopkeepers of those days might have experimented with putting fruit out, but they probably ushered the stock back behind the counter the moment they noticed some had gone missing. Well sure enough fruit is still stolen...I myself just ate a gorgeous white fig without paying for it. I also spent $45 on things I probably didn't need in the same store. Cost of fig: 15 cents. Maybe. It's not something they're going to out and tell you...the shopkeepers want you to buy. They want you to feel guilty for stealing. They want to remind you that they are in business, and that there could be a stick somewhere to go along with those carrots. But a shopkeeper that runs out and threatens a customer who stole a fig? Used the bathroom without buying anything? Walked across the store as a shortcut? A shopkeeper that pulls the fruit back behind a counter? They're headed south in a hurry. They won't survive in a competitive market against those who understand how to factor acquisition costs into the equation. And with software, these factors are even greater. Way greater. As if distilled to an essence. And exponentially reinforced via a network effect. And in this case, Waves isn't just scolding its potentials...it's possibly ruining their lives by bankrupting them and running them straight out of this industry. Dumb company. Not just dumb company, toxic company. I'm sure just about everyone in Silicon Valley who actually understands this as a business and has heard of this is more than shaking their heads over it. It's category killing. It threatens to spread to more dumb CEOs. Where will this end? ...And Universal decides to join EMI and ditches copy protection on its music this morning...

10th August 2007, 07:39 AM	#173
superburtm Lives for gear Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 2,351	WAVES will never get another cent from me EVER

10th August 2007, 01:20 PM	#174
blockrockin Gear interested Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 4	how could they use a "secret video tape" in court ? the tape could be edited to say and show anything they wanted. ?

10th August 2007, 10:43 PM	#177
terminal3 Lives for gear Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: London, UK Posts: 1,435	Although I'm firmly against software piracy of any sort, I don't think that Waves are doing themselves any PR favours. I'd be fascinated to see if any of the people/companies who received 'letters' decide to take this any further and allow it to go to court... I'm no expert, and I'm actually probably barely a layperson when it comes to the law but this just all seems very, very wrong on Waves' part...

11th August 2007, 02:09 PM	#180
planseven Gear interested Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 6	So maybe those of us who feel strongly about these underhand and bullying tactics aimed at innocent people and people whom they merely suspect of being unlicensed users should start making some noise about it........Wikipedia might be a good start, together with letters to the music press, Mix, Pro Sound News, Audio Media,Tape Op etc etc. Incidentally, I hear that there is a very interesting exclusive on the subject in the forthcoming Pro Sound News.............. Why does the phrase 'hoist with their own petard' come to mind?