Software Police on Patrol... - Page 5

vixapphire · 17th July 2007, 01:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by APOHStudios

And considerably more risky! But then it wasn't all that smart to use cracked software to begin with.

true dat, hombre!

btw, as the owner of one of the first batch of avantones sold thru the group buy on this forum, allow me to compliment you and the company on a hella grand product! i'll admit, the look alone is worth the price; their value as a mixshaping tool is all cream!

v

APOHStudios · 17th July 2007, 01:41 AM

Thanks! We worked real hard on both the look and sound.

superburtm · 18th July 2007, 09:07 AM

I just recieved a notice from a lawyer in Nebraska saying they have been "Informed" that I am using unauthorized software and they are suing me for thousands of dollars. I AM A REGISTERED owner!!!!!!!!!!

I have nothing good to say about waves anymore. I am never going to buy waves anything EVER again. Their plugs don't even sound worth a shit anyhow

Anybody else experience this insanity from waves??

terminal3 · 18th July 2007, 09:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by superburtm

I AM A REGISTERED owner!!!!!!!!!!

Then you have nothing to fear, and may even be able to countersue them - that is the American way, no?

But I'd be careful about what you post and where if are going to go into legal proceedings.

xist · 18th July 2007, 10:25 AM

Are you really sure it's not simply an evoluted form of spam?

If you want, feel free to pm me with a copy of the message (and better, with its header source, you can easily get it if you run a client like Entourage, AppleMail, etc.), and I can take a look. I'm quite good at these things :-)

superburtm · 18th July 2007, 10:33 AM

It has to be spam...However the law firm, does exist...I just received it today and I haven't had a chance to talk to waves or this big time law firm in Nebraska :)

LINK DELETED BY MODERATOR

Quote:

Originally Posted by xist

Are you really sure it's not simply an evoluted form of spam?

If you want, feel free to pm me with a copy of the message (and better, with its header source, you can easily get it if you run a client like Entourage, AppleMail, etc.), and I can take a look. I'm quite good at these things :-)

peeder · 18th July 2007, 11:57 AM

We've gotten a bunch of reports about this, and it seems it's legit since Waves hasn't denied it. I am on record as saying this is corporate suicide by Waves. Some vocal posters here want to see pirates taken down because they view them as unfair competition...something I think is a stunning display of insecurity, but that's just me.

I think many if not most people view this as atrocious (they apparently send spies out to studios to scrutinize their installations on false pretenses...did you get a visitor, perhaps an Israeli male, wishing to see your plugins recently?) but are shy about appearing to defend piracy. I pay for all my plugins and I suggest others do. I suggest supporting customer-friendly companies that offer both quality products and respect.

terminal3 · 18th July 2007, 12:05 PM

Well, if it is legit (which it might be), and you haven't done anything wrong, then you need to stand up to them, somehow, if you can be bothered. Make them regret sending out that letter...

I agree though, these are pretty much RIAA-style tactics, too prone to error, possibly not even legal, and although I'm not defending software pirates, I think it smacks of desperation on the part of Waves. If they're now counting on this income for revenue they're in big, big trouble.

superburtm · 18th July 2007, 12:19 PM

You know I think I do remember someone not to long ago checking out my plugs..WOW this is so effed up!But, I own the GOLD bundle so I don't see how this is possible..not to mention..what about demos?? Don't they allow demos of all of their bundles like ssl and such??

d_fu · 18th July 2007, 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by superburtm

saying I am going to prison..for using software which I actually own.

No, you don't own software. You are being granted a license to use it...

terminal3 · 18th July 2007, 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by superburtm

You know I think I do remember someone not to long ago checking out my plugs..WOW this is so effed up!But, I own the GOLD bundle so I don't see how this is possible..not to mention..what about demos?? Don't they allow demos of all of their bundles like ssl and such??

they allow demos, but not for professional use. as in, you cannot download a demo and use it on a client's recording, it violates their license agreement.

superburtm · 18th July 2007, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by terminal3

they allow demos, but not for professional use. as in, you cannot download a demo and use it on a client's recording, it violates their license agreement.

ahh..well..I can't wait to hear the response from these people after my emails hit there inbox. Let's sue our customers! Nice motto WAVES

heathen · 18th July 2007, 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by superburtm

ahh..well..I can't wait to hear the response from these people after my emails hit there inbox. Let's sue our customers! Nice motto WAVES

Man what a company of ******bags.

poncival · 18th July 2007, 03:02 PM

We had a guy call the studio the other day saying he saw that we have waves on our web site and that's good because he has a session that he wants to mix "in the box" and needs waves Platinum and URS etc.

We told him we didn't have the URS but might be able to download a demo for it for his one day booking. He thanked us for the info and said he would come by and check out the studio.

He called back a couple hours later and said he had a change of plans and decided he was happy with the mixes he already had.

It seemed like he would have had enough time to contact a central office to check our registrations before he called back to cancel. Maybe I am just paranoid but with all this going on it's pretty funny to us.

poncival · 18th July 2007, 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by terminal3

they allow demos, but not for professional use. as in, you cannot download a demo and use it on a client's recording, it violates their license agreement.

Wow, I didn't know that, good to know... Come to think of it, I have never done that but I have had to use the auto tune demo a couple times when our old disk registration had gotten messed up and we were waiting for a new one. Good thing I was just working on my own personal music at the time

d_fu · 18th July 2007, 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by terminal3

they allow demos, but not for professional use. as in, you cannot download a demo and use it on a client's recording, it violates their license agreement.

I recently wanted to try an Algorithmix plugin to denoise a project for a CD (it had some ugly interference from a light system on it). I called them up and asked whether I could hire a license for a limited period to work on this and they said "Why don't you try our two-week-demo?"...

I even got phone support on some specific questions I had about the plugin.

In the end, I didn't get quite the result I wanted and the demo is expired, and I now used good old Cool Edit Pro, which did a fine job.

But I just wanted to mention how potential-customer friendly they were.
I don't use plugins a lot, but I don't think I'd ever consider buying a Waves plugin...

Daniel

planseven · 18th July 2007, 03:25 PM

But does anyone know of an actual case that went to court? It could be like the UK bank charge situation where the banks wouldn't actually let any case get that far in case they had an adverse court ruling and had to refund everybody's bank charges....

superburtm · 18th July 2007, 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by heathen

Man what a company of ******bags.

vixapphire · 18th July 2007, 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by d_fu

No, you don't own software. You are being granted a license to use it...

I think he means he owns a legit license to use it. Having read plenty of Bonzo's other posts around here, I think it's fair to say he's not a dummy. No need to split hairs!

vixapphire · 18th July 2007, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by planseven

But does anyone know of an actual case that went to court? It could be like the UK bank charge situation where the banks wouldn't actually let any case get that far in case they had an adverse court ruling and had to refund everybody's bank charges....

Recent headlines (past 2 mos. or so) feature the first instance of a defendant in one of the RIAA cases not dropping counterclaims when the RIAA drops their suit, making this one of the first instances in which it appears the RIAA is going before the jury with their litigation scheme, and will have to come up with a defense against their strategy of targeting 8 year-olds and grandmothers. Grab some popcorn...

Bonzo should wait the collection agency who's sending these letters out on behalf of Waves out: if they actually sued him, he could have the case dismissed for failure to state a claim based on his legit registration, and file a motion for disciplinary sanctions against the lawyer and all named plaintiffs (Waves and perhaps also the agency), and based on the harassing nature of the letter might walk away with some quid from the deal. He wouldn't even have to formally answer their complaint!

These letters are unusual as c/d letters go, in that they go straight to the redline - there's no real ameliorative solution offered. One would expect Waves to at least say something like "we know you're bootleg. therefore, buy a legit license (or license + $___ settlement fee) and we'll let bygones be bygones, within 10 days or this gets escalated." Instead, you get Waves' collection agency saying "you're bootleg, pay us $___000"; there's not even mention of a release of liability! What hogwash.

AndrewsLaneRec. · 18th July 2007, 10:08 PM

i know how to avoid this all together. a nice 2 inch tape machine and some tasty outboard gear

peeder · 18th July 2007, 10:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndrewsLaneRec.

i know how to avoid this all together. a nice 2 inch tape machine and some tasty outboard gear

Right. As I argued in the first of these threads, this line of activity is category-killing.

AndrewsLaneRec. · 18th July 2007, 10:56 PM

so serious.

peeder · 18th July 2007, 11:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndrewsLaneRec.

so serious.

You might be serious too, if:

1) You received a letter informing you of bankruptcy or worse for something someone brought into your studio's harddrive without you even knowing, or

2) You made your living selling software or related services, as I have, with other companies threatening your entire sector by sending out the above letters and prompting (quite natural and reasonable) responses like the one you made above.

Duardo · 18th July 2007, 11:43 PM

You know, as much as I disagree with their tactics, and regardless of the fact that I don't know how "real" this all is (has anyone actually spoken with anyone, either at Waves or at the big Nebraska (?) law firm, about it?), what it comes down to is that the people who are being targeted here are the people who have stolen the software and are using it for commercial gain.

In the cases where they're going after someone who actually owns the software, it should be realively easy to show that you do own the software so I wouldn't worry about that.

And I'm still suspicious of all these "new guys" who pop up regarding this issue...

peeder · 18th July 2007, 11:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duardo

And I'm still suspicious of all these "new guys" who pop up regarding this issue...

Quote:

Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,810

...

AndrewsLaneRec. · 19th July 2007, 02:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by peeder

You might be serious too, if:

1) You received a letter informing you of bankruptcy or worse for something someone brought into your studio's harddrive without you even knowing, or

2) You made your living selling software or related services, as I have, with other companies threatening your entire sector by sending out the above letters and prompting (quite natural and reasonable) responses like the one you made above.

right. fair enough, but you're still on a website called gear SLUTZ dot com. that doesn't exactly scream seriousness.

we've all got our issues, but come on dude, get a sense of humor.

gravityminor · 19th July 2007, 04:23 AM

wrong is wrong. i received a cracked version of a bundle a couple of years ago. i installed it and felt really guilty about the whole thing every time the logo splash popped up on screen. uninstalled shortly after. i'm not a fan of wup and i only have the ssl collection from waves.

if i were to get busted for having cracked plugs, i would have known when installing that it was a possibility.

my 2 cents

planseven · 19th July 2007, 01:55 PM

In my particular case, I was approached by a female who wanted to record and mix her album and wanted to view our studio amongst others so that she could decide on a suitable facility. On arrival she insisted that we used Waves as plugins for the mix; I tried to persuade her to use UA instead as I personally prefer them and indeed, have four cards. When she insisted, I said that I'd look into getting Waves if getting the session depended on it. I then followed up by email saying that I had Waves available and did she want to discuss dates etc; no answer was forthcoming. In actual fact, I didn't have Waves, and was waiting for a confirmed booking before either getting a copy or using one of our regular freelancer engineers who is a licensed user. I certainly wasn't going to lay out thousands of dollars on spec for software that up to now I had never been asked for and that I didn't need except for this specific booking.

Three months later I had a letter from Waves' solicitors saying that they had evidence that I had an unlicensed copy of Waves Gold Bundle and that they would instigate court proceedings unless I paid them the licence fee togther with $5000 damages. I later found out that the evidence consisted of a secretly filmed video of the visit for which they demanded $70 for a copy.

Luckily, I have an old friend who is a copyright expert having published legal textbooks on the subject. His advice is that according to Section 16, the copyright statute states that the provisions only come into effect when an unlicensed copy of a copyright has been made in material form; as a computer program in this particular case. The act of claiming to have a copy (to procure a booking, in my case) is not an offence. Furthermore, it could be argued that the unusual actions of Waves' agent could in this case be taken as an exceptional granting of a license (see previous posting on Waves' friendly help on using the demo as a temporary licence) and that the actions of the agent posing as a potential customer could open Waves up to all sorts of counterclaims for deception and trespass etc.

In summary, he told me that the action of Waves was based on very dubious legal grounds, and that as it would cost $5000 or more for them to even start a court action, his advice was for anyone in my situation to stand their ground and not respond until and unless legal proceedings were started.

I didn't ask him what to do in the situation that the studio actually had an unlicensed version of Waves on their computer as this obviously didn't apply in my case but other advice I have taken suggested that it's a fair cop and Waves should be sent an amount to cover the licence fee together with a small amount to cover legal expenses; certainly not the $5000 requested as damages.

I do not condone the use of cracked software, but it is surely reasonable to be allowed to try expensive plug ins out thoroughly before committing to a large financial outlay. My personal moral criteria are clear to me; if I find myself endorsing and using any software for commercial ventures, I pay for it. And as far as being a suspicious newbie poster, I have been a reader of these forums for many years now without ever having felt the necessity of adding my particular irons to the fire. Until now, that is...

peeder · 21st July 2007, 08:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by planseven

In my particular case, I was approached by a female who wanted to record and mix her album and wanted to view our studio amongst others so that she could decide on a suitable facility. On arrival she insisted that we used Waves as plugins for the mix; I tried to persuade her to use UA instead as I personally prefer them and indeed, have four cards. When she insisted, I said that I'd look into getting Waves if getting the session depended on it. I then followed up by email saying that I had Waves available and did she want to discuss dates etc; no answer was forthcoming. In actual fact, I didn't have Waves, and was waiting for a confirmed booking before either getting a copy or using one of our regular freelancer engineers who is a licensed user. I certainly wasn't going to lay out thousands o

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17th July 2007, 01:41 AM	#122
APOHStudios Lives for gear Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Upland, CA Posts: 1,065 iTrader: (0)	Thanks! We worked real hard on both the look and sound. __________________ Doc Bernard, Quality Control Engineer http://www.avantelectronics.com For info, or technical question regarding our products, please contact support@avantelectronics.com http://www.myspace.com/apohstudios http://www.myspace.com/bengalvideoproductions

18th July 2007, 09:07 AM	#123
superburtm Lives for gear Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 2,295 iTrader: (0)	HATE WAVES I just recieved a notice from a lawyer in Nebraska saying they have been "Informed" that I am using unauthorized software and they are suing me for thousands of dollars. I AM A REGISTERED owner!!!!!!!!!! I have nothing good to say about waves anymore. I am never going to buy waves anything EVER again. Their plugs don't even sound worth a shit anyhow Anybody else experience this insanity from waves??

18th July 2007, 10:25 AM	#125
xist Lives for gear Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 505 iTrader: (0)	Are you really sure it's not simply an evoluted form of spam? If you want, feel free to pm me with a copy of the message (and better, with its header source, you can easily get it if you run a client like Entourage, AppleMail, etc.), and I can take a look. I'm quite good at these things :-) __________________ http://audionewsroom.blogspot.com

18th July 2007, 03:02 PM	#134
poncival Lives for gear Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Mesa, AZ Posts: 617 iTrader: (0)	We had a guy call the studio the other day saying he saw that we have waves on our web site and that's good because he has a session that he wants to mix "in the box" and needs waves Platinum and URS etc. We told him we didn't have the URS but might be able to download a demo for it for his one day booking. He thanked us for the info and said he would come by and check out the studio. He called back a couple hours later and said he had a change of plans and decided he was happy with the mixes he already had. It seemed like he would have had enough time to contact a central office to check our registrations before he called back to cancel. Maybe I am just paranoid but with all this going on it's pretty funny to us. __________________ myspace.com/poncival www.thesaltmine.com

18th July 2007, 11:57 AM	#127
peeder Lives for gear Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 5,139 iTrader: (0)	We've gotten a bunch of reports about this, and it seems it's legit since Waves hasn't denied it. I am on record as saying this is corporate suicide by Waves. Some vocal posters here want to see pirates taken down because they view them as unfair competition...something I think is a stunning display of insecurity, but that's just me. I think many if not most people view this as atrocious (they apparently send spies out to studios to scrutinize their installations on false pretenses...did you get a visitor, perhaps an Israeli male, wishing to see your plugins recently?) but are shy about appearing to defend piracy. I pay for all my plugins and I suggest others do. I suggest supporting customer-friendly companies that offer both quality products and respect.

18th July 2007, 12:05 PM	#128
terminal3 Lives for gear Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: London, UK Posts: 1,144 iTrader: (0)	Well, if it is legit (which it might be), and you haven't done anything wrong, then you need to stand up to them, somehow, if you can be bothered. Make them regret sending out that letter... I agree though, these are pretty much RIAA-style tactics, too prone to error, possibly not even legal, and although I'm not defending software pirates, I think it smacks of desperation on the part of Waves. If they're now counting on this income for revenue they're in big, big trouble.

18th July 2007, 12:19 PM	#129
superburtm Lives for gear Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 2,295 iTrader: (0)	You know I think I do remember someone not to long ago checking out my plugs..WOW this is so effed up!But, I own the GOLD bundle so I don't see how this is possible..not to mention..what about demos?? Don't they allow demos of all of their bundles like ssl and such??

18th July 2007, 03:25 PM	#137
planseven Gear interested Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 6 iTrader: (0)	But does anyone know of an actual case that went to court? It could be like the UK bank charge situation where the banks wouldn't actually let any case get that far in case they had an adverse court ruling and had to refund everybody's bank charges....

18th July 2007, 10:08 PM	#141
AndrewsLaneRec. Gear addict Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 312 iTrader: (0)	i know how to avoid this all together. a nice 2 inch tape machine and some tasty outboard gear

18th July 2007, 10:56 PM	#143
AndrewsLaneRec. Gear addict Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 312 iTrader: (0)	so serious. __________________ http://www.myspace.com/andrewslanerecordingcompany

18th July 2007, 11:43 PM	#145
Duardo Lives for gear Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 1,726 iTrader: (0)	You know, as much as I disagree with their tactics, and regardless of the fact that I don't know how "real" this all is (has anyone actually spoken with anyone, either at Waves or at the big Nebraska (?) law firm, about it?), what it comes down to is that the people who are being targeted here are the people who have stolen the software and are using it for commercial gain. In the cases where they're going after someone who actually owns the software, it should be realively easy to show that you do own the software so I wouldn't worry about that. And I'm still suspicious of all these "new guys" who pop up regarding this issue...

19th July 2007, 04:23 AM	#148
gravityminor Gear nut Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Santa Monica CA Posts: 109 iTrader: (0)	wrong is wrong. i received a cracked version of a bundle a couple of years ago. i installed it and felt really guilty about the whole thing every time the logo splash popped up on screen. uninstalled shortly after. i'm not a fan of wup and i only have the ssl collection from waves. if i were to get busted for having cracked plugs, i would have known when installing that it was a possibility. my 2 cents __________________ There is nothing worse than a sharp image of a fuzzy concept. Ansel Adams

19th July 2007, 01:55 PM	#149
planseven Gear interested Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 6 iTrader: (0)	In my particular case, I was approached by a female who wanted to record and mix her album and wanted to view our studio amongst others so that she could decide on a suitable facility. On arrival she insisted that we used Waves as plugins for the mix; I tried to persuade her to use UA instead as I personally prefer them and indeed, have four cards. When she insisted, I said that I'd look into getting Waves if getting the session depended on it. I then followed up by email saying that I had Waves available and did she want to discuss dates etc; no answer was forthcoming. In actual fact, I didn't have Waves, and was waiting for a confirmed booking before either getting a copy or using one of our regular freelancer engineers who is a licensed user. I certainly wasn't going to lay out thousands of dollars on spec for software that up to now I had never been asked for and that I didn't need except for this specific booking. Three months later I had a letter from Waves' solicitors saying that they had evidence that I had an unlicensed copy of Waves Gold Bundle and that they would instigate court proceedings unless I paid them the licence fee togther with $5000 damages. I later found out that the evidence consisted of a secretly filmed video of the visit for which they demanded $70 for a copy. Luckily, I have an old friend who is a copyright expert having published legal textbooks on the subject. His advice is that according to Section 16, the copyright statute states that the provisions only come into effect when an unlicensed copy of a copyright has been made in material form; as a computer program in this particular case. The act of claiming to have a copy (to procure a booking, in my case) is not an offence. Furthermore, it could be argued that the unusual actions of Waves' agent could in this case be taken as an exceptional granting of a license (see previous posting on Waves' friendly help on using the demo as a temporary licence) and that the actions of the agent posing as a potential customer could open Waves up to all sorts of counterclaims for deception and trespass etc. In summary, he told me that the action of Waves was based on very dubious legal grounds, and that as it would cost $5000 or more for them to even start a court action, his advice was for anyone in my situation to stand their ground and not respond until and unless legal proceedings were started. I didn't ask him what to do in the situation that the studio actually had an unlicensed version of Waves on their computer as this obviously didn't apply in my case but other advice I have taken suggested that it's a fair cop and Waves should be sent an amount to cover the licence fee together with a small amount to cover legal expenses; certainly not the $5000 requested as damages. I do not condone the use of cracked software, but it is surely reasonable to be allowed to try expensive plug ins out thoroughly before committing to a large financial outlay. My personal moral criteria are clear to me; if I find myself endorsing and using any software for commercial ventures, I pay for it. And as far as being a suspicious newbie poster, I have been a reader of these forums for many years now without ever having felt the necessity of adding my particular irons to the fire. Until now, that is...