G-strings (the guitar kind)

[mwagener]

Based on an idea from BevvyB here is the question:

Why do we always have problems with G strings on guitars and what can be done about it?

Sometimes we have to go through 3 or 4 packages of strings to find a G string that doesn't sound "not quite as bad" as others. In general we know that the frets on a guitar are mathematically in the wrong place, they should be "fanned" out across the fretboard rather than parallel to each other, but that would make it very hard to play. A couple of my guitars have modifications by Buzzy Featon (sp?), which works very well, but still the problem with the G string being out of tune with itself remains. When it gets really bad nothing short of retuning and punching in each bad chord will work.

Any ideas?

[drundall]

My hated subject. I've always used Peterson strobe tuners. If a guitar
has big intonation problems it gets fired instantly-I have guitars which tune
up pretty well. Fixed bridge and locking tuners like Sperzels help. If I get a
guy playing complex chords with distortion I'll turn the gain down, and try to
use a more open "class A" sounding amp. Buzzy's system is my next step-
I just got a new Peterson digital strobe tuner.

Guitars are by nature not in tune for all chords and you will usually hear it in
the B and G strings. The best is when you get a guy that can compensate
by tuning by ear---rare...

Happy tuning

[BevvyB]

Getting a guitar to ring true is difficult.
I tune in with a tuner (yes we like those strobe tuners, Jules is a fan I know)
Then I re-tune the G string till I 'like' it
Not exactly scientific I'm afraid. When I say 'like it' I mean it sounds 'right' and 'nice' when I play MOST open chords (especially in the chords for the particular passage, if I'm playing open chords) or on bar chords (which have their own problems, and again, based on the track/song in question)
To get the extremely open Tom Petty jangalang acoustic perpetual strum thing going on I have only managed by having re-tunes for particular open chords and dropping in, or completely doubling a track knowing that some of the chords (the ones I tuned) are going to be 'in tune' to be chopped in afterwards (thus retaining feel)
I have considered actually trying to measure what this difference in pitch is and sticking a mark on my tuner where I think G SHOULD be, but I think that could be pointless 'cos where G SHOULD be keeps moving.

You've then got the other problem of then getting your current guitar to fit in with the other guitars, and I guess thats an ears only solution.

I guess 'knowing' when things are all humming along together is why some of us get paid!

[Jules]

Strobe tuners rock, the best models (not the new Peterson sadly) can sort of show a display of chords - that can help IMENSLY for the fmadd ing g string madness you are referring to..

I say this cause unlike Bev, my relative pitch is not 'brilliant'. (...he is rather golden eared)

yuktyy

[Jules]

Strobe tuner rock, the best models (not the new Perterson sadly) can sort of show a display of chords - that can help IMENSLY for the fmadd ing gstring madness you are refering to..

I say this cause unlike Bev, my relative pitch is not 'brilliant'. (he is rather golden eared)

yuktyy

[BevvyB]

I think most of the guitars I have played sound better when they have NO stupid wammy bar and no locking. When you're fiddling with those little nuts to retune a string you can't really get away from the note and back again, which is a great help to finding a ringing note. I find those little tuning nuts just keep me in the same place as the problem, not drastic enough.

Anyway, enough about my nuts dfegad

[cymatics]

On the subject of tuning nightmares... I am in the middle of an album project with a band that tunes their 7 strings to G#!!!

No, I'm not making that up.

Actually, considering the fact that their strings are like rubber bands, it sounds pretty ****ing great. In a few spots, we've had to tune the bass to a particular section and punch it in. Other than that it just requires thoroughly checking the tuning any time the tape is gonna roll.

- Jon

[Jay Kahrs]

My favorite guitar is my PRS Santana SE with the hardtail bridge. I can't set the intonation. Hey, it's close enough for rock & roll right? Just check the tuning before each take and go with it. Actually, while it's not perfect it's pretty damn close. Intonation does bug me a lot, especially when someone can't hear that they're out of tune.

[5down1up]

i have no problem with that ...
i had , but its defenately a playing thing . i cant get a les paul in tune ... god damn it ... i can play on a fender or a gibson es .
i use heavy strings like a 12 e string . what dfegad me off was any kind of preamp i tried , marshall , boogie , engl ...
was out of tune , the guitar wasnt ... what the hell .
it sounds in tune on my ac30 it sounds out of tune on a engl ??? kinda strange isnt it , tube replacing ... doesnt work .
i decided to trash all those nasty " wanna be preamps & amps " .
they have cool sounds but out of tune . even though , same with stomp boxes . i stick now to some old ibanez and fulltones .
i hate it if it sounds out of tune .... ahhhhhhhhhhh .
but , quarter tuning is kinda hard to hear , too . especially if you listen to the high b and e string , your ear goes automatically " major " , but hey ... g is minor ... a tuner can do the job , but theres not many guitars in the world which are fixed that proper . you can tune single strings , but the whole guitar ... by ear .
i always check cmaj7 with an open a ( 10ths fret ) if that sound right ... it mostly works . so i do with a e5 ( 2nd fret , open e string , b , e , b , e , open e string ) ... your ears dont go for that major g# overtones . replacing parts on a original sucks ( sorry ) .
it changes the sound too much , and i dont kill my old blacky strat with some modifications .

most scary out of tune equipment , pod & ampfarm ...

[Jules]

Some band member just cry out - 'tuning hazard' dont they?

How about the dreaded 'monkey grip idiot'? dfegad

Fretting chords with too much force on light strings!!!

That is my worst nightmare!

Or the 'heavy handed moron" that uses a plectrum with as much give in it as a filed down penny and smacks each chord into sharp tuning oblivion?

[BevvyB]

POD and AMPFARM.....

Now, what I think you are talking about here with guitar sims etc is that when you play two notes or more the POD can't get the harmonics 'right', especially with distorted sounds. Things just don't ring true 'cos the POD can't ever possibly know how more than one note at a time would sing together properly in the electronics of the box it is trying to mimic. So things don't 'settle' harmonically like they do in real life through a real amp using 'real' distortion etc

Even though that's what its meant to do.

I love the POD, I have one. But it has its limits. AMPFARM too.

This isn't really an argument. I'm just agreeing with 5down1up..

[maxim]

i bit ot, but i always wanted to try recording distorted minor chords one note at a time (eg A on the 1st run, E on the second and G on the third)

anyone done that?

[5down1up]

what min chord is that goin 2 be maxim
a , e , g > a5/7
e , g , a > e min sus 4 ??? / emin11
g , a , e > g9/13

just kiddin

recording one note at a time can create a cool effect , but it doesnt sound like a "guitar" in the end . ( shure it does , u know what i mean ) .

peace yall

[mwagener]

Originally posted by maxim
i bit ot, but i always wanted to try recording distorted minor chords one note at a time (eg A on the 1st run, E on the second and G on the third)

anyone done that?

Didn't Mutt do this on a Def Leppard album?

[Jules]

Thats the folk lore!

yuktyy

[maxim]

whoops, i did mean a/c/e, not a/g/e (but now, i'm going to try that out as well)

[sonic dogg]

Or how bout the guy who comes in with TWO choruses AND a short delay AND two distortions and thinks it sounds in tune...he wound up using just my old ibanez ts-9 ...we put the chorus on later....Being a guitar ****** myself, it is hard to justify the fact that every time the light goes on you know you're going to be slightly out of tune somewhere...but hey...find a guitar that 'sits' in its tuning well and can handle different gauges of strings...i like to cut backing tracks with sets starting with 12's and sometimes heavier...do the leads with 10's...any of them so-called players who gotta have 8's or even those 7's are just pusses.....

[chap]

on my 50 or so guitars, it seems more like a b string problem.
Almost all of the problems can be smoothed out with proper tension (I have a chart from Rick Turner)
good strings (Thomasticks?) and setup.
And Irish whiskey helps.

[BevvyB]

Wheres this chart then CHAP?

[chap]

I'm looking, I'm looking.I may have to call Rick or look on a dead computer. Rick is very good with stuff like this. He just built a guitar for Henry Kaiser that was specifically designed to withstand
the rigors of the North Pole or (Antarctica). Either way, it seems like a long ways to go to play guitar but Ricks guitar handled it well. I'll get the chart.
JC

[WATYF]

I've always had more trouble with the B string than with the G string... madd Man, I hate try to get the B string to sound "just right"... (Especially on open E based chords.)

of course... what the hell do I know?

I just needed an excuse to make my first post so I could try oat all these groovy emoticons... These things rock!!! grggt


oh yeah... the site is ok too...


WATYF

[Jules]

Great article in this months Tape Op on gtr tuneing!

[Killahurts]

I have perfect pitch (I was born with it, didn't even take the tuning-fork-on-the-finger guy's course), so I don't use my tuner, unless I've been drinking. When I tune the Les Paul for use with distortion, I usually end up having to flatten the G a few cents, and to a lesser degree the B as well. This gives me the most even colors over the most places on the fretboard, and the least amount of "beat". On the acoustic I first tune the B (with a digital strobe tuner), since B is the hardest note in the universe to tune. Then without the tuner, I tune the whole guitar to the B and low E, compromising sonically between the E and G chords. Your results may vary, unless you play just like I do, and it also depends on good mechanical intonation on the guitar to begin with.

But it will always be a compromise with any stringed instrument, because they keep getting sharper as you go up than the math that represents them and the difference becomes more acute as you approach the seventh great note, which is B, and hence the problem with the relationship between G and B, which is right in the middle of where we guitar players need our shit to sound good and is why I enjoy playing my bass more and more anymore.

R