A bad day of Bass Playing!

PreAmpSam · 20th May 2007, 02:24 AM

Today i returned from my 3rd session with a great band that has a terrible bass player. We are doing 3 songs in 6 days and really spending time on the material. Today we started recording bass.. every part totally ruined the songs, and he couldn't even play the parts.. Now i have dealt with bad musicians before, but i think this one takes the taco. The band knows that he needs extra work so i rewrote all his parts with him and totally changed them to fit the songs.The only problem with that is that he couldn't play any of them. I gave him almost six hours of takes on 2 songs and finally i just gave in and said that all his takes were great. The scary part is he said it was the best bass playing he ever did and he's been playing for 6 years.

I couldn't let this ruin the recording.... The drums sound great and the songs are well written excluding the bass parts.. So when he left i replayed everything he did. It took me an hour. Am i just dealing with this wrong?... I didn't want to sacrifice what could be a great recording to bad bass playing. I just hope he comes in tomorrow and doesn't know the difference.

sigh... I feel better.

AlexLakis · 20th May 2007, 03:37 AM

I would be as up-front with the band as possible. Chances are if the bass player was willing to let you write parts for him, he wouldn't be completely against another player playing them. Level with the band. How long have they been together? Do they have good prospects? If so, it might be time for a new bass player. I wouldn't necessarily suggest that outright, but, from the sound of it, they'll have to cross that bridge eventually. What do the other band members have to say about the parts he writes? Does his playing come up as an issue a lot during practice? If the other players are as good as you say they are, chances are at least they will notice you replayed the parts. How do you think they will respond to this?

You might want to approach them next session with the bass player's original parts in there. Then say "Well, I was messing around with the parts last night and I came up with this..." Then play them your parts. See how they respond. Chances are they'll want to keep whichever sound better. They might want to give the bass player another shot, tho, in which case, that means more money for you and THEN you pull the switcheroo. Everybody wins.

Sounds Great · 20th May 2007, 06:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlexLakis

I would be as up-front with the band as possible. Chances are if the bass player was willing to let you write parts for him, he wouldn't be completely against another player playing them.

Uhh, what would that leave for the "bass player"?

--

I hope you didn't just put in your bass part without discussing it first. If I were the bass player I would be pretty pissed. Is the band ready to let him go?

AlexLakis · 20th May 2007, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sounds Great

Uhh, what would that leave for the "bass player"?

Beer? Chicks? Early retirement?

They could still tour with him if they wished, but from the sounds of it, the band needs a new bassist.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sounds Great

I hope you didn't just put in your bass part without discussing it first. If I were the bass player I would be pretty pissed. Is the band ready to let him go?

Agreed, communication is key, and don't replace the parts behind their backs. Offer up the new parts as an alternative. Your actions should involve serving the band and their sound as best as you can, and also feeling out how the rest of the band feels about the bassist.

But, hey, some bands have gone a long way with pretty crappy musicians (Just look at The Offspring...FINALLY replaced their drummer after, what, six albums?)

4stringerfinger · 20th May 2007, 02:14 PM

I hate it when bands go into the studio when the're not ready. What ever happened to preproduction rehearsals? This should have been taken care of already. You should work with him one on one. Pull him aside from the band and work with him. Tell the band to go hit a titty bar or something and if he's serious, he'll get it right. As a bassist who needed to work on a part, me and the engineer would put in "overtime" while the band, producer was not there. Thank goodness for punch ins and patience.

gabetx26 · 20th May 2007, 04:20 PM

I know the feeling, it's like you a just created the best Thanksgiving dinner ever only to have someone take a dump on your turkey

. I find it strange how some bands can be so oblivious of thier weak links even after it's been made obviouse in a studio recording session

. If the rest of the band didn't say anything after you gave the

on the bass players original crappy tracks then chances are they won't say anything when they magically sound better

. If you want to take the honest route you could level with the band and see if one of the guitar players can try and track the bass. I find it's less offensive if another member takes the initiative to step up and do whats in the best for the band rather than the engineer taking it upon himself to make that decision for them. If they say "nah, thats ok, it sound fine dude"

then I would go with your original plan and if they ask any questions just tell them you ran the tracks through your unsuckalizer

.

DontLetMeDrown · 20th May 2007, 05:04 PM

I agree with being honest. If you are careful and tactful, they might be cool about it. Also you can be honest in a roundabout sort of way. For example you could say, "I did some polishing on the bass tracks to tighten up the timing and dynamics."

Show them the tracks. If they hate them, then you've done all you can.

I think it really depends on the situation. If this is for a major label release, I could see doing that to save your name, but for 5 garage-band guys who just want to have a nice recording of themselves, it is not really fair to them, nor is it really justifiable. How does the band feel about his playing? If everyone is having a blast, it's probably best to leave it alone.

PreAmpSam · 21st May 2007, 05:16 AM

I ended up showing them what i played as an alternative to see what they would say. They loved it... The singer said "we were going to ask you to do it anyways"! The bass player wasn't too thrilled, and i don't blame him, i didn't mean to step on his toes, i just wanted them to have a good product... when i told him that he could take credit for the performances on the record, he wasn't so upset. At least the band knew that those performances were not up to par, like i said... they are good...minus the bass player. It all worked out and today we had a more productive day.

astronmr20 · 21st May 2007, 06:31 AM

I have been following this thread wondering what would happen.

A good outcome for you and the band.

You get paid, the bassist gets laid, etc.

Huzzah!!

AlexLakis · 21st May 2007, 04:05 PM

Good form. Glad everything worked out!

lowfreq33 · 21st May 2007, 07:28 PM

I've done that before where I went back and replayed what the bassist THOUGHT he was playing, and the band was happy. I never told them.

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20th May 2007, 02:24 AM	#1
PreAmpSam Gear interested Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: New York Posts: 29	A bad day of Bass Playing! Today i returned from my 3rd session with a great band that has a terrible bass player. We are doing 3 songs in 6 days and really spending time on the material. Today we started recording bass.. every part totally ruined the songs, and he couldn't even play the parts.. Now i have dealt with bad musicians before, but i think this one takes the taco. The band knows that he needs extra work so i rewrote all his parts with him and totally changed them to fit the songs.The only problem with that is that he couldn't play any of them. I gave him almost six hours of takes on 2 songs and finally i just gave in and said that all his takes were great. The scary part is he said it was the best bass playing he ever did and he's been playing for 6 years. I couldn't let this ruin the recording.... The drums sound great and the songs are well written excluding the bass parts.. So when he left i replayed everything he did. It took me an hour. Am i just dealing with this wrong?... I didn't want to sacrifice what could be a great recording to bad bass playing. I just hope he comes in tomorrow and doesn't know the difference. sigh... I feel better. Last edited by PreAmpSam; 20th May 2007 at 03:11 AM.. Reason: had an extra A in the title.

20th May 2007, 05:04 PM	#7
DontLetMeDrown Lives for gear Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Camarillo, CA Posts: 1,211	I agree with being honest. If you are careful and tactful, they might be cool about it. Also you can be honest in a roundabout sort of way. For example you could say, "I did some polishing on the bass tracks to tighten up the timing and dynamics." Show them the tracks. If they hate them, then you've done all you can. I think it really depends on the situation. If this is for a major label release, I could see doing that to save your name, but for 5 garage-band guys who just want to have a nice recording of themselves, it is not really fair to them, nor is it really justifiable. How does the band feel about his playing? If everyone is having a blast, it's probably best to leave it alone. __________________ Dave Escobar So-Cal Sound Design My New Website My Myspace Page Rock City Studios Orange Whip Recording

21st May 2007, 06:31 AM	#9
astronmr20 Lives for gear Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 4,232	I have been following this thread wondering what would happen. A good outcome for you and the band. You get paid, the bassist gets laid, etc. Huzzah!! __________________ Steve "He's only a fast food knight..."

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20th May 2007, 03:37 AM	#2
AlexLakis Lives for gear Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Annapolis, MD/L.A. Posts: 3,612	I would be as up-front with the band as possible. Chances are if the bass player was willing to let you write parts for him, he wouldn't be completely against another player playing them. Level with the band. How long have they been together? Do they have good prospects? If so, it might be time for a new bass player. I wouldn't necessarily suggest that outright, but, from the sound of it, they'll have to cross that bridge eventually. What do the other band members have to say about the parts he writes? Does his playing come up as an issue a lot during practice? If the other players are as good as you say they are, chances are at least they will notice you replayed the parts. How do you think they will respond to this? You might want to approach them next session with the bass player's original parts in there. Then say "Well, I was messing around with the parts last night and I came up with this..." Then play them your parts. See how they respond. Chances are they'll want to keep whichever sound better. They might want to give the bass player another shot, tho, in which case, that means more money for you and THEN you pull the switcheroo. Everybody wins.

20th May 2007, 02:14 PM	#5
4stringerfinger Gear maniac Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Space City, TX Posts: 240	I hate it when bands go into the studio when the're not ready. What ever happened to preproduction rehearsals? This should have been taken care of already. You should work with him one on one. Pull him aside from the band and work with him. Tell the band to go hit a titty bar or something and if he's serious, he'll get it right. As a bassist who needed to work on a part, me and the engineer would put in "overtime" while the band, producer was not there. Thank goodness for punch ins and patience.

20th May 2007, 04:20 PM	#6
gabetx26 Gear nut Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 84	I know the feeling, it's like you a just created the best Thanksgiving dinner ever only to have someone take a dump on your turkey . I find it strange how some bands can be so oblivious of thier weak links even after it's been made obviouse in a studio recording session . If the rest of the band didn't say anything after you gave the on the bass players original crappy tracks then chances are they won't say anything when they magically sound better . If you want to take the honest route you could level with the band and see if one of the guitar players can try and track the bass. I find it's less offensive if another member takes the initiative to step up and do whats in the best for the band rather than the engineer taking it upon himself to make that decision for them. If they say "nah, thats ok, it sound fine dude" then I would go with your original plan and if they ask any questions just tell them you ran the tracks through your unsuckalizer .

21st May 2007, 05:16 AM	#8
PreAmpSam Gear interested Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: New York Posts: 29	I ended up showing them what i played as an alternative to see what they would say. They loved it... The singer said "we were going to ask you to do it anyways"! The bass player wasn't too thrilled, and i don't blame him, i didn't mean to step on his toes, i just wanted them to have a good product... when i told him that he could take credit for the performances on the record, he wasn't so upset. At least the band knew that those performances were not up to par, like i said... they are good...minus the bass player. It all worked out and today we had a more productive day.

21st May 2007, 04:05 PM	#10
AlexLakis Lives for gear Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Annapolis, MD/L.A. Posts: 3,612	Good form. Glad everything worked out!

21st May 2007, 07:28 PM	#11
lowfreq33 Lives for gear Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Nashville, TN Posts: 1,895	I've done that before where I went back and replayed what the bassist THOUGHT he was playing, and the band was happy. I never told them.