Rip-Off Britain!!

[Renie]

I know it's a cliche!! but.

for example the KSP8...

I have been researching the cost of the Kurzweil KSP8 after reading about it here.. US people are talking $2100-2300 which would be about £1400 here.
I just got a quote from my dealer, who is usually really competitive, a special offer of...da da da...£2186!!!!

Even ex VAT thats £1860.

It's shocking!

Why?

Any ways around this?

thanks

Thats $3,500 in USD

Does that seem fair?

[Ol' Betsey]

No, it doesn't seem fair...

And another thing that pisses me off here is that there's no "street" price. I hate when someone tells me "retail" and then won't budge. Well I'll just budge my way out the door then.

You have to accept that it's a different commercial climate here (and believe me I do) but a little American-style "well let's see what we can do" would go a long way in my book.

Granted, there are some cool people out there (And those are the ones I tend to do repeat business with. Best price or not.) but to be quoted the straight retail price (which so obviously inflated) everytime you call somebody outside of your circle is so annoying.

Winge Winge Winge... Sorry.

But I LIKE to spend money!

And before I get flamed to kingdom come by the sales guys out there: I started my working life in sales (in the US), have somehow been sidetracked into this music malarky (in the UK), and will probably end my working life in sales (who knows where).

I'm not dissin' the profession. Just the technique.

R.

[Jax]

USA: I have to say in my experience, it's unheard of for a pro audio salesperson to quote only the retail price. The only examples of this I can remember were followed or preceded by "we don't have our price yet, but we're talking to (co. x) so we'll let you know." They would get laughed at and/or instantly build themselves a bad reputation, so sales aren't done that way here.

Do you ask them if they're talking retail or street price?? Not that they shouldn't tell you both from the start.

Do you tell them, "Well, I can get it at (another shop) for $x. How close can you come to that?"

[Renie]

Actually the retail quote I was given was $3864 :eek: I was offered a reduction on that.

It would be cheaper for me to get on a plane.

I'm considering it.

If I sit next to someone obese, and get crushed, I may get my costs covered completely when I sue the airline for damages.

Or just get one sent over from the States or Canada.

grudge

Can someone explain why the UK is this expensive? What "climate" Ol Betsey?

Has anyone in the UK bought stuff from abroad..any tips?

Thanks!!

[Ol' Betsey]

Hi Renie,

Started writing an expose on the cultural differences in the commercial climate between the US and UK/Europe and it became so long-winded and bloody winge-y that I thought I might get banished from the "moan" zone forever!

But basically I think it comes down to a difference between the definitions of Customer Service.

Being constructive though, I did in fact do some investigating today and got a few figures and phone numbers for anybody else that wants to try this sort of thing. As some of you know, I'm now in full gearslut mode and trying add to the arsenal of the studio I'm about to be moving into and have found this exercise very informative.

If you want to import something from outside the EU you need to pay an Import Duty and VAT.

The Import Duty is levied according to the product and from what I've gathered is generally between 3 and 7 percent. This obviously varies and the no. you need to call is (+44) 01702 366 077. They will then ask you for a description of the item and then give you a reference code. You then take this reference code and call (+44) 0845 010 9000 and they will tell you the percentage of tax levied.

The tax is based on the amount the item is declared to be worth plus any insurance and delivery cost. These are all added together and then taxed by the percentage given.

You also then have to pay VAT on this entire amount. If your VAT registered you can claim the VAT back.

Taking for instance the KSP8 (which I'm really interested in too):
Street Price: $2200
Shipping: $150
plus 3.7% (this is the percentage I found for analog digital convertors. not the same but you get the idea) $86.95
VAT: $426.47
Total: $2863.42 or £1850 inc. VAT (£1575 not inc.)

BUT BUYER BEWARE! This is the grey market. Some (if not most) manufacturers won't service grey market imports unless you send it back to the country of origin. And the shop isn't just down the road.

Is it worth it? For some things maybe. For all things? You should decide for yourself.

YMMV...

R.

[Renie]

Originally posted by Ol' Betsey


BUT BUYER BEWARE! This is the grey market. Some (if not most) manufacturers won't service grey market imports unless you send it back to the country of origin. And the shop isn't just down the road.

Is it worth it? For some things maybe. For all things? You should decide for yourself.

YMMV...

R.

R.

Excellent post!

Your censored expose sounds like it would have been really interesting.

I really appreciate you sharing your research on the subject. It is an intriguing dilemma. This grey market catch is a real thorn though isn't it? What are your thoughts on the KSP8 then? I suppose the first thing to do is to find out where Kurzweil stand on the servicing point. Do they actually have any staff in the UK anyway? I'll find out.

It's kind of putting me off buying the KSP8 though, which is a shame for me and Kurzweil!!!!

[jkasko]

I just picked up this unit. What are some the patches to really check out. I looking for great drum verbs, some vocal stuff, and general chamber type of sounds.

Thanks.

[chrisso]

Originally posted by jkasko
I just picked up this unit. What are some the patches to really check out. I looking for great drum verbs, some vocal stuff, and general chamber type of sounds.

Thanks.

Hey Yankie, don't change the subject! Us Brits are having a serious moan about the way we get ripped off.
I think the rest of the World gets cheaper prices because we (in Britain) pay the extra pound. It happens in every area (clothes, food, DVD's) and no one has come up with a legitimate argument for it yet.
A couple of lame arguments are:
Our taxes are higher and it's the governments fault.
The UK is a small market and therefore in coutries like the US, where the consumer is king, companies have to compete a lot harder with discounting.
I truly believe we pay for that in the UK.
Why is all the Digidesign stuff nearly pound for dollar? That means we are paying 1.5 more for everything.
There are company representatives on these forums. I'd like to hear what they have to say.
In closing.....
I buy a lot of stuff (probably most of my stuff) outside of the UK. Buying ex demo and slightly used items off ebay is EVEN cheaper. The American consumer will not pay a lot of money for second hand items usually.
As 'Ol Betsey' says, you'd better beware though. It is difficult to get after sales service. Also the PSU's can be an issue. Some gear can be switched or switches itself automatically. I bought an Ensoniq DP4 which could not be switched from 110v. I've got step down transformers all over my studio, no big deal, but you can get the odd hum building up.

[Renie]

Thanks for the information Chrisso. I suggest we get a GS posse and storm Whitehall. Failing that it would be great to hear from some of the company rep's for a bit more explanation. It is annoying.

[Robinhood]

The UK is a rip off period......

[Ol' Betsey]

Hello Renie and Chrisso,

How are my fellow travelers?

Have you guys ever checked this site out?

http://www.musicians-gear.com/

They seem to have pretty good prices on the Kurweil KSP8 and considering they're European we wouldn't have to pay import duty. And although they're based in Germany, if anything went wrong we wouldn't have to deal with customs if we needed to send it back. And really, Europe seems to be getting closer everyday. Shipping is so much quicker and simpler than even a just a few years ago. Heck, we can jump on Ryanair (A budget airline for you USA'rs) and fly there £10!

On a side note: From what I've heard/read about it, I'm totally sold on the KSP8. Well... as sold as I can be without actually hearing it....

Tried to hire one here in London and nobody had even heard of it

Tried FX, Tickle, Studiohire, you name it.

Might bite the bullet on this one though and just give it a go.

R.

[chrisso]

It's a little worrysome that they are a faceless website. Also, they don't carry a lot of the units I'd be interested in; Cranesong, Api, Smart, ADAM.
Actually I'm researching another outrageous example of price hiking by a UK distributor/dealer.
I might start a thread on one of the other forums because I'd love to involve some of the manufacturers, distributors and dealers that lurk on Gearslutz. I truly believe that it's the profits they make on UK sales that enable them to be more competative in tougher markets such as the US.
I'm pissed (as they say over the pond).

[7rojo7]

I'm an American who lived in France for 3 years and Italy now for 6 years. In 1995, when I was searching for my first PT rig, the prices in Paris for anything from outside were so high that I did what everybody here wants to do and the savings more than payed for the trip back to New York. I also found some TLAudio pieces for way less than I could find them for in England.
Now things seem to have levelled off a bit for computers and such, nobody here talks sconto street price on DD products. The prices I would have to pay for the 4 Earthhworks QTC mics. and the 4 channel pre that I want makes me want to call Fletcher. The Mark Thompson prices on some things aren't bad, but when I went to London expecting to find some deals, I got a hell of a surprise, I've never come back.
I wonder if the big studios pay the same prices and the shops do the old buddy routine with them and the hire companies to keep the gear out of the hands of Jon Doe studio owner, to keep business up for them? Nah too romantic, not enough gold.

[chrisso]

http://gearslutz.com/board/showthrea...&threadid=2669

I hope you all don't think I've been too heavy.
I'll be interested to see if these two industry insiders have got a take on the situation.
It would be great to think we could change a few attitudes, although as I point out, neither of these guys are guilty parties.

[Ruphus]

Just to add my two cents:
While prices here in Germany aren´t that outrageous like in Britain, still retailers/ wholesailers appear to think they can do it with us ( obviously successfully ).
After calculating I found that including customs, tax ( =additional ~ 20% ) and shipping many things are still way cheaper ordered from U.S. than alternatively being ripped off by prices in Germany.

Thus, while e.g. the Ddrum kit didn´t look worth to order from abroad ( regarding the disadvantages you mentioned before, like shipping for repair / guarantee etc.) - and so was purchased here - other parts well did. That´s why I just ordered a D/A converter and a preamp from U.S.A.

I guess if many would start checking out each time the importers would be forced to overthink their strategies.




Ruphus

[entropy]

i left london about 3 months ago now but worked for a retailer selling mainly hi-end kit. having travelled and bought kit thru europe and the u.s i know we are definately getting stitched along the way somewhere.

having worked in a couple of the larger retailers, i don't think it's at that point that the inflation occurs. typically most retailers will strive to get a mark-up of about 23-25% and normally this will be the start point in negotiation. the reality is'nt anywhere near as good as that though. low ticket items will normally go for 18-20% and if you're buying anything tasty, generally it's more like15%. that doesn't give you a lot to play with if you're paying london rents, london wages etc.

having bought quite a bit direct through manufactures/distributors, i'm sure that's where the hike comes from. most will offer deals like, 50% of retail or 30% off cost. but what can you do? i've bought off musicians-gear . com and waited an age to get my new toy and as for grey imports, you end up paying so much for a repair i'm sure it works out cheaper/less hassle in the long run to buy local. and there's a lot to be said for keeping your local dealer in business.

as for manufacters, the worst markup has to be digidesign. are they shafting us what?

[chrisso]

Originally posted by entropy

as for manufacters, the worst markup has to be digidesign. are they shafting us what?

Totally!

(There's a thought. What about a guest moderator from Digidesign one month Jules?)

[mac black]

i found a way how to f**k turnkey up the HEEHAW-
if u havent read it im sorry i said i would leave it for a short while....

Come on guys keep the language a little tamer thanks!

[mac black]

sorry for the filth...

[Ruphus]

Originally posted by entropy
... you end up paying so much for a repair i'm sure it works out cheaper/less hassle in the long run to buy local. and there's a lot to be said for keeping your local dealer in business.

It might be a question of the individual case.
While the savings on the drum kit wasn´t worth to order it from overseas, the saving on the preamp well was.
It would had been twice that expensive to order it from a dealer over here even with all additinal costs for US order included.

Preventing repair / guarantee hassles is not worth a doubling of the bill, at least not for gear of remarkable price anyway I think.

Whoever would be responsible for exaggerated prices, if customers were checking out first about better deals abroad and make their choice respectively the manufacturer / distributor or retailer on the long run would learn from that.

Ruphus