Singers who can't Sing

dillweed · 11th April 2007

Recording a heavy band. The singer is more of a "screamer" but he wants to sing here and there...and cant. I mean he can't sing a note the same twice. Usually about a minor third or more sharp all the time.

Bought and have been trying Melodyne...nope. Not doing it. His voice must be too gravel-y for it to get the pitches right. And when i can get the pitches right it sounds like a cyborg.

The only thing i can get to work is figure out the pitches on my guitar, put on
Autotune and pitch-shift each note until its right. The final product sounds horrible. Need to add tons of reverb and delay and doubles to make it even tolerable.

I'm sure some of you have some stories or methods you could suggest....
I'm sure this is becoming more prevalent with the whole american idol thing.

oh and they paid me a set amount for the record and a big back end chunk if something happens. So i want it to be decent.

Zarathustra · 11th April 2007

Just solo the unprocessed vocal during the painful parts, maybe he'll get the idea. A man's got to know his limitations.

Z

doorknocker · 11th April 2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by dillweed

Usually about a minor third or more sharp all the time.

Let him sing harmony. The 'or more' bit doesn't sound too promising though.....

Spectacle · 11th April 2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Honcho

First

What's this mean? I've seen this on a couple of threads this afternoon. What, are you artifically raising your post count for some reason?

mic anon · 12th April 2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spectacle

What's this mean? I've seen this on a couple of threads this afternoon. What, are you artifically raising your post count for some reason?

It means he is the first one to respond.

Spectacle · 12th April 2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by mic anon

It means he is the first one to respond.

Well, yeah, I figured that. But what, does he win some sort of prize? What is this, junior high?

So I checked his other posts. They're all like this. What an ass. Oh, wait, maybe he's ********...sorry. Poor guy.

Sounds Great · 12th April 2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spectacle

Well, yeah, I figured that. But what, does he win some sort of prize? What is this, junior high?

So I checked his other posts. They're all like this. What an ass. Oh, wait, maybe he's ********...sorry. Poor guy.

Wow, no kidding. Great contribution he's got goin' there.

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/searc...archid=4466214

mobaudio · 12th April 2007

Leave the vocals alone.

I've recorded a few bands where the singer didn't even know what "in tune" meant. Most of them said "Nobody says anything when we play live!"

There's a whole sect of metal bands where singing in tune is almost frowned upon (not to start a war, but I have yet to hear that dude from Korn hit a note that had anything to do with ANYTHING). I don't get it. Just fit thevocals in the track, make the rest of the track rock, and the fans'll love you.

Unless you were hired specifically to get in tune vocals out of him; in which case distortion, ring modulators and delay are your new best friends.

Good luck.

I

dillweed · 12th April 2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by mobaudio

Leave the vocals alone.

I've recorded a few bands where the singer didn't even know what "in tune" meant. Most of them said "Nobody says anything when we play live!"

There's a whole sect of metal bands where singing in tune is almost frowned upon (not to start a war, but I have yet to hear that dude from Korn hit a note that had anything to do with ANYTHING). I don't get it. Just fit thevocals in the track, make the rest of the track rock, and the fans'll love you.

Unless you were hired specifically to get in tune vocals out of him; in which case distortion, ring modulators and delay are your new best friends.

Good luck.

I

Wow! thats great advice. thumbsup I get too caught up in making every thing "perfect", but the band could care less, and probably the fans as well. They really can't hear the difference. Much less stress.

I've also found that distortion and delay as well as tucking the vox in the mix really helps. Take the focus away from the pitch.

I still wonder how engineers who have to record horrific singers pull it off. Like say a label signs a Paris Hilton type, or some hot model or actor who can't sing a lick and you have to make it sound good.

mobaudio · 12th April 2007

I've heard horror stories about Paula Abdul's records going through every engineer in LA in the 80's. APPARENTLY she can't sing a lick and after every trick in the book was used to fix her out of tune vocals, they had to write a whole new book.

I blame her for the Vocalist/Autotune/Melodyne laden vocals I hear every day.

I

P.S. YES, I have auto-tuned singers. I have to pay my rent, too.

Ibvee · 12th April 2007

You must have a horrible life, getting a living out of autotune!

Tommy Fobia · 12th April 2007

Hmm.... If he's that far off each time, maybe its because he doesn't actually have a definite part written yet.

Maybe he needs a guide track of a piano or something to hold down the melody, which he can then sing along to.

If he's more than a tone off, melodyne will make him sound cyborgey...

bearblock · 13th April 2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tommy Fobia

Maybe he needs a guide track of a piano or something to hold down the melody, which he can then sing along to.

this is a good idea. i tend to use synth lead sounds as guide tracks to help me build big multitracked harmonies easily, but then when producing myself there are no ego issues. just tell him that's what mike patton does or something

Reag1502 · 13th April 2007

I think a big reason why your singer is always going sharp is because he is sooooo use to screaming and throwing everything he has into is vocals, that he just oversteps everything. He's just got to relax a bit, and he'll start leveling off to were he's not sharp. My two cents

dibravibra · 13th April 2007

press mute on lead vocal! Hope it will help..

pwpi · 20th April 2007

I know it's rock 'n roll and singers generally want to feel like they're ontage performing instead of focusing on the issue at hand which is ummmm . . . singing but, try lessening his headphone mix so that he can hear himself sing "in his own head" as well ass a tiny bit through the headphones. What a singer hears in their head versus what they think they're hearing in their mix are two completely different realities.

It'll take time for him to get used to it, and you'll have to maintain "sainthood" bcz he's going to bitch and moan and then use it as yet another excuse as to why he can't sing, but it works. Bear with it.

If that fails douse him in effects and bury it in the mix like an artsy alternative record and maybe no one will be the wiser, but this guy sounds extremely gifted at delivering bad vocals.

Bierce85 · 20th April 2007

Dropping him by 4-5 db at 3 khz will blur the actual tones he's singing a little bit.. if you're going for less emphasis on the notes.

Kappi · 20th April 2007

I feel for you too, everything said above is good advice, i have an additional point.
Sometimes those singers are very uncomfort with the average studio-situation.
They're used to bend down, go on their knees (some) move or twist their body, whatever gymnastics you imagine. Standing straight in front of a fixed Mic on a stand could make them uneasy and feel limited.
You should at least once try to give hime the SM58 with long cable opportunity .
Let him jump around and shout into the thing.
Trade performance for sound... if he still can't do it :

Is there actually a good Studio pet?

I sometimes got some good takes out of the SM58-thing. >And Hey, its RocknRoll.

11th April 2007	#1
dillweed Gear maniac Joined: Sep 2004 Location: Tx. Posts: 294 Thread Starter	Singers who can't Sing Recording a heavy band. The singer is more of a "screamer" but he wants to sing here and there...and cant. I mean he can't sing a note the same twice. Usually about a minor third or more sharp all the time. Bought and have been trying Melodyne...nope. Not doing it. His voice must be too gravel-y for it to get the pitches right. And when i can get the pitches right it sounds like a cyborg. The only thing i can get to work is figure out the pitches on my guitar, put on Autotune and pitch-shift each note until its right. The final product sounds horrible. Need to add tons of reverb and delay and doubles to make it even tolerable. I'm sure some of you have some stories or methods you could suggest.... I'm sure this is becoming more prevalent with the whole american idol thing. oh and they paid me a set amount for the record and a big back end chunk if something happens. So i want it to be decent.

12th April 2007	#12
Tommy Fobia Gear nut Joined: Sep 2006 Location: UK Posts: 98	Hmm.... If he's that far off each time, maybe its because he doesn't actually have a definite part written yet. Maybe he needs a guide track of a piano or something to hold down the melody, which he can then sing along to. If he's more than a tone off, melodyne will make him sound cyborgey... __________________ - Tommy

20th April 2007	#16
pwpi Gear nut Joined: Apr 2007 Posts: 101	Old tricks I know it's rock 'n roll and singers generally want to feel like they're ontage performing instead of focusing on the issue at hand which is ummmm . . . singing but, try lessening his headphone mix so that he can hear himself sing "in his own head" as well ass a tiny bit through the headphones. What a singer hears in their head versus what they think they're hearing in their mix are two completely different realities. It'll take time for him to get used to it, and you'll have to maintain "sainthood" bcz he's going to bitch and moan and then use it as yet another excuse as to why he can't sing, but it works. Bear with it. If that fails douse him in effects and bury it in the mix like an artsy alternative record and maybe no one will be the wiser, but this guy sounds extremely gifted at delivering bad vocals. __________________ Artificial Intelligence is no match for natural stupidity.

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11th April 2007	#2
Zarathustra 3 + infractions, forum membership suspended. Joined: Dec 2004 Posts: 367	Just solo the unprocessed vocal during the painful parts, maybe he'll get the idea. A man's got to know his limitations. Z

12th April 2007	#8
mobaudio Gear nut Joined: Jul 2006 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 106	Leave the vocals alone. I've recorded a few bands where the singer didn't even know what "in tune" meant. Most of them said "Nobody says anything when we play live!" There's a whole sect of metal bands where singing in tune is almost frowned upon (not to start a war, but I have yet to hear that dude from Korn hit a note that had anything to do with ANYTHING). I don't get it. Just fit thevocals in the track, make the rest of the track rock, and the fans'll love you. Unless you were hired specifically to get in tune vocals out of him; in which case distortion, ring modulators and delay are your new best friends. Good luck. I

12th April 2007	#11
Ibvee Gear addict Joined: Jul 2006 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 474	You must have a horrible life, getting a living out of autotune!

13th April 2007	#14
Reag1502 Gear addict Joined: Jul 2006 Location: overlooking the pacific ocean Posts: 367	I think a big reason why your singer is always going sharp is because he is sooooo use to screaming and throwing everything he has into is vocals, that he just oversteps everything. He's just got to relax a bit, and he'll start leveling off to were he's not sharp. My two cents

13th April 2007	#15
dibravibra Gear maniac Joined: Mar 2005 Posts: 278	press mute on lead vocal! Hope it will help..

20th April 2007	#17
Bierce85 Lives for gear Joined: Jan 2007 Location: RI Posts: 936	Dropping him by 4-5 db at 3 khz will blur the actual tones he's singing a little bit.. if you're going for less emphasis on the notes.

20th April 2007	#18
Kappi Gear maniac Joined: Jul 2006 Location: Cologne Posts: 154	I feel for you too, everything said above is good advice, i have an additional point. Sometimes those singers are very uncomfort with the average studio-situation. They're used to bend down, go on their knees (some) move or twist their body, whatever gymnastics you imagine. Standing straight in front of a fixed Mic on a stand could make them uneasy and feel limited. You should at least once try to give hime the SM58 with long cable opportunity . Let him jump around and shout into the thing. Trade performance for sound... if he still can't do it : Is there actually a good Studio pet? I sometimes got some good takes out of the SM58-thing. >And Hey, its RocknRoll.