Professional Audio Design (Amateur Audio Design?)

Vex'd · 12th January 2007

Just want to let you all know about my latest experience in dealing with P.A.D.

We bought a MTA 990 mixing console. I received it 3 weeks late. The manual was incomplete. There were no maintenance records. It came covered in a light coating of sand and dirt. The ELCO patchbay was covered in mud. I had requested that the console be cleaned. The console was advertised as, "in complete working order", but after everything was paid for, I was informed of the malfunctions which were supposedly fixed at my addition expense. 2 channels never worked from the begining. There were coffee stains on the board as well.

I received 2 unmarked power supplies, and was informed a week later that one was for spare parts. Was supposed to also receive a spare module, but that was used for parts to fix the orginial problem. Now I have problems with 2/3 mix buses (B+C) and AFL from a couple of channels probably need more servicing. After doing additional servicing and signal path testing (to figure out which EDACs map to which channel, since the manual was half missing and completely wrong anyhow, cuz this mixer was modified) which cost me a couple of grand extra, the mixer sounds amazing.

Just wanted to give the GearSlutz community a heads up to be careful when dealing with them. They will warm up to u b4 the sale is made, and after, who knows. I understand older console have a bit of wear and tear, but this was not cool, and to think I was gonna buy an ssl from them. Anywayz buyers beware.

Led · 12th January 2007

That's a bummer. I know they can be a bit behind with their website. I was looking at a Pultec therte, but it seemed everything I saw on the site and emailed them about was already sold, just not removed. Here's hoping you get things sorted.

jonnyclueless · 12th January 2007

I have had similar experiences there, but got the impression that it was forbidden to speak of such things on here. Maybe I am thinking of a different forum.

Vex'd · 12th January 2007

Whether it was forbidden or not, I thought it wud be best for people to know, at least I wud have liked to know b4 going there, I wud have taken a different route.

danasti · 12th January 2007

The issue is that there are always two sides to every story. Whenever you have two parties involved with a dispute or a buyer isn't satisfied there is also a dealer who who likely has a different understanding of how the events unfolded.

You can bet that three or four members will be along to share their positive experiences. The owners and employees of PAD will also be along to explain their side of this story. A large number of people will read this and make their determination.

Sometimes a dispute is better handled privately. I'm not saying that this one is. Nor am I making any judgements but I've seen these things develop on this forum and other public forums. It's like arguing with your girlfriend or wife at a baseball game in front of hundreds of people - sometimes it's just better to resolve issues quietly, face to face, respectfully and privately.

I don't know. Maybe this one is different and PAD remembers these events exactly as stated. Maybe they agree that they did a poor job and they breached their end of the deal. And maybe they agree that same thing happens with other deals and they are a horrible company. Maybe they will put a big graphic on their website saying "buyer beware! we suck!".... Somehow, I don't think that will happen - and they might even recall a few events differently.

The other issue is that some people in the past have taken it upon themselves to do a company in without even explaining the problem they had to the company and asking them for a resolution to the problem. I can think of one post on GS where some people chimed in bashing a certain company who had never even dealt with them - human nature can be very strange. Again, I'm not saying that happened here. These are just some of the situations that moderators must consider. If they didn't they would be foolish to think that every anonymous person who posts something bad about a company is 100% in the right.

Anyway,
Best of Luck...

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonnyclueless

I have had similar experiences there, but got the impression that it was forbidden to speak of such things on here. Maybe I am thinking of a different forum.

C.Lambrechts · 12th January 2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonnyclueless

I have had similar experiences there, but got the impression that it was forbidden to speak of such things on here. Maybe I am thinking of a different forum.

not forbidden ... but there's a forum for this type of stuff.

thejook · 12th January 2007

It's unfortunate what happened, but you didn't have to go through with the deal once you found out the product was not as advertised. You also could have sent back the board (at their expense) for the same reason. The contract was broken by them in any case...any repairs made by them and 'charged to your expense' completely breach their obligation -- did you actually pay for these repairs?

You're never obligated to receive merchandise that is not what you paid for.

MIKEHARRIS · 12th January 2007

welcome to the real world of used equipment.

From the similar experiences our clients have had...it appears to be S.O.P.

Songhead · 12th January 2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by danasti

The issue is that there are always two sides to every story. Whenever you have two parties involved with a dispute or a buyer isn't satisfied there is also a dealer who who likely has a different understanding of how the events unfolded.

Yes, indeed there are two sides to every story. Just as we sell consoles two ways - fully serviced with a warranty, and as-is where-is. This console was sold AS-IS.

I'll chose not to get into a mudslinging contest, we have been in business for 14 years and have a long list of happy clients. Anyone wishing to discuss this off-line, feel free to contact me.

Vex'd · 13th January 2007

The only mudslinging was the mud that my board was covered in. As for PAD hiding behind "sold as-is where-is", PAD should have not advertised this was in fully operational condition, cuz it was not.

As for all who doubt and say "there are 2 sides to this story", we went there in person to settle the bill, which was probably the mistake, but if any of u have ever dealt with PAD, they do not ship anything out without recving full payment, so I dont see how I could have refused it once it arrived and send it back after I paid $2000 (including customs, we are based in Canada) for shipping and another $2000 to get it craned in, this was not an escrow transaction.

Welcome to the world of use equipment- how about "welcome to the world rip off con-artists", EVERYTHING WAS PAID IN FULL b4 the console was delivered, but that was my mistake. If u dont fully understand:- I paid everything in full, then when we were about to walk out their rep informs me of all the malfunctions that was supposedly now at my additional expense, which was NEVER mentioned to me up to this point.

I am not writing this post in hopes of PAD resolving the issues, but to let the community know that these cats are shady, 14 years in the business of what screwing all the small cats and kissing the asses of the all the cats with multi-million dollar budgets. Well guess what guyz some of these small cats end up being the big cats in time, so shame on u for not being able to see a few steps ahead.

Aside from this all PAD must have forgotten I hooked them up with a customer who was trying to unload his SSL, which I was gonna grab, PAD went out of their way to say " hey I'll hook u up with a few dollars for that" when it was never a requirement on my part, but PAD insisted on it, in the end we got an absolute zero and a half ass'd working board.

All u cats who want to go ahead and buy from them go ahead, just dont complain u werent warned.

dfegad PAD

12th January 2007	#1
Vex'd Gear interested Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 14 Thread Starter	Professional Audio Design (Amateur Audio Design?) Just want to let you all know about my latest experience in dealing with P.A.D. We bought a MTA 990 mixing console. I received it 3 weeks late. The manual was incomplete. There were no maintenance records. It came covered in a light coating of sand and dirt. The ELCO patchbay was covered in mud. I had requested that the console be cleaned. The console was advertised as, "in complete working order", but after everything was paid for, I was informed of the malfunctions which were supposedly fixed at my addition expense. 2 channels never worked from the begining. There were coffee stains on the board as well. I received 2 unmarked power supplies, and was informed a week later that one was for spare parts. Was supposed to also receive a spare module, but that was used for parts to fix the orginial problem. Now I have problems with 2/3 mix buses (B+C) and AFL from a couple of channels probably need more servicing. After doing additional servicing and signal path testing (to figure out which EDACs map to which channel, since the manual was half missing and completely wrong anyhow, cuz this mixer was modified) which cost me a couple of grand extra, the mixer sounds amazing. Just wanted to give the GearSlutz community a heads up to be careful when dealing with them. They will warm up to u b4 the sale is made, and after, who knows. I understand older console have a bit of wear and tear, but this was not cool, and to think I was gonna buy an ssl from them. Anywayz buyers beware.

12th January 2007	#4
Vex'd Gear interested Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 14 Thread Starter	PAD Whether it was forbidden or not, I thought it wud be best for people to know, at least I wud have liked to know b4 going there, I wud have taken a different route.

12th January 2007	#8
MIKEHARRIS Lives for gear Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: MIAMI FLA Posts: 1,676	welcome to the real world of used equipment. From the similar experiences our clients have had...it appears to be S.O.P. __________________ harrisaudiosystems.com

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12th January 2007	#2
Led Lives for gear Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 2,711	That's a bummer. I know they can be a bit behind with their website. I was looking at a Pultec therte, but it seemed everything I saw on the site and emailed them about was already sold, just not removed. Here's hoping you get things sorted.

12th January 2007	#3
jonnyclueless Lives for gear Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 799	I have had similar experiences there, but got the impression that it was forbidden to speak of such things on here. Maybe I am thinking of a different forum.

12th January 2007	#7
thejook Lives for gear Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 569	It's unfortunate what happened, but you didn't have to go through with the deal once you found out the product was not as advertised. You also could have sent back the board (at their expense) for the same reason. The contract was broken by them in any case...any repairs made by them and 'charged to your expense' completely breach their obligation -- did you actually pay for these repairs? You're never obligated to receive merchandise that is not what you paid for.

13th January 2007	#10
Vex'd Gear interested Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 14 Thread Starter	The only mudslinging was the mud that my board was covered in. As for PAD hiding behind "sold as-is where-is", PAD should have not advertised this was in fully operational condition, cuz it was not. As for all who doubt and say "there are 2 sides to this story", we went there in person to settle the bill, which was probably the mistake, but if any of u have ever dealt with PAD, they do not ship anything out without recving full payment, so I dont see how I could have refused it once it arrived and send it back after I paid $2000 (including customs, we are based in Canada) for shipping and another $2000 to get it craned in, this was not an escrow transaction. Welcome to the world of use equipment- how about "welcome to the world rip off con-artists", EVERYTHING WAS PAID IN FULL b4 the console was delivered, but that was my mistake. If u dont fully understand:- I paid everything in full, then when we were about to walk out their rep informs me of all the malfunctions that was supposedly now at my additional expense, which was NEVER mentioned to me up to this point. I am not writing this post in hopes of PAD resolving the issues, but to let the community know that these cats are shady, 14 years in the business of what screwing all the small cats and kissing the asses of the all the cats with multi-million dollar budgets. Well guess what guyz some of these small cats end up being the big cats in time, so shame on u for not being able to see a few steps ahead. Aside from this all PAD must have forgotten I hooked them up with a customer who was trying to unload his SSL, which I was gonna grab, PAD went out of their way to say " hey I'll hook u up with a few dollars for that" when it was never a requirement on my part, but PAD insisted on it, in the end we got an absolute zero and a half ass'd working board. All u cats who want to go ahead and buy from them go ahead, just dont complain u werent warned. dfegad PAD