Using CD's or DVD's for DDP Images...

gunofason · 12th December 2006

Is there a difference in creating a final DDP master as a DVD or CD? I'm considering going the DDP route exclusively and was curious to know the difference. It seems I've seen people go both ways and from what I understand, most reputable premastering systems give you the option to choose from. Are their pro's & con's? Do replicators recommend either one over another? Thanks!!

zenmastering · 12th December 2006

I haven't experienced a preference either way. The length of the programme material will, of course, be the deciding factor.

If you are using a particular replicator, also check if they accept FTP delivery as an alternative to sending a physical disk.

Lastly, make sure you have some way of turning that DDP into a CD-R that can be checked by a human being before it gets sent anywhere...

Best,

Graemme

Thor · 14th December 2006

Most of my deliveries are DDP, and most of them on CD-R.

As Graemme said (Hi Graemme, how's things...), talk to the plant and see what they prefer, and make sure the the DDP actually contains the data you want pressed...

I work closely with several local plants and know that they actually read the big red letters on the CD-R that says "DDP image file!", and can ftp stuff as well when needed. There have been (very rare) occasions where a (completely different) plant has replicated thousands of data CD's from the DDP, but usually you expect that the people who work at a professional replicator are required to be able to have basic reading skills in order to get the job

. This was after I called to verify that they could accept a DDP on CD-R and was told 'no problem, just make sure to mark the master clearly'. Ahem.

A DVD-R can (in some cases) be a garantee that you don't get a straight CD-R copy, but again, check with the plant/broker first. If in doubt, include both (DDP and CDDA) and let the plant choose. Yes, it takes more time, but can save headaches for the client later on.

Cheers,
Thor

Adebar · 20th December 2006

Some mastering engineers think DVD-RAM is the best way for delivering a DDP master.
It is obvious that it won´t be replicated by accident.
The medium itself has a better redundancy than DVD-R.
In a cardridge itis protected against mechanical issues like scraches and fingerprints.

What do you think?

Roland · 20th December 2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adebar

Some mastering engineers think DVD-RAM is the best way for delivering a DDP master.
It is obvious that it won´t be replicated by accident.
The medium itself has a better redundancy than DVD-R.
In a cardridge itis protected against mechanical issues like scraches and fingerprints.

What do you think?

I think it's overkill. I've been supplying DDP images on CDR and DVD-R for about 4 years now with no ill effects, somthing over 400 different titles.

Regards

Roland

**jayfrigo** · 21st December 2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roland

(re:DVD-RAM)
I think it's overkill. I've been supplying DDP images on CDR and DVD-R for about 4 years now with no ill effects, somthing over 400 different titles.

Plus, that assumes the plant will have a DVD-RAM drive, which is not so common. A CD-R or DVD-R can be read on just about any computer that isn't so old as to be powered by a mouse on a wheel. Despite any virtues, I think RAM is probably not going to catch on as a standard delivery format.

Adebar · 21st December 2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roland

I think it's overkill. I've been supplying DDP images on CDR and DVD-R for about 4 years now with no ill effects, somthing over 400 different titles.

Regards

Roland

The assumption that it is overkill implements the message that it is better.

But if you think so with the experience of 400 titles I assume you may be right.

Roland · 21st December 2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adebar

The assumption that it is overkill implements the message that it is better.

But if you think so with the experience of 400 titles I assume you may be right.

Only is so much that as you pointed out you can't get access to the disc to cause damage, however I haven't ever had a DDP on CDR or DVD-R returned because the factory couldn't read it, and as Jay say's above you are taking a chance that a factory has a DVD-Ram drive which is highly unlikely.

Regards

Roland

mrlouie · 22nd December 2006

99% of the time lables ask for them on a CDR .. one, i cant think of right now always wants it on a DVD ... i dont know if that helps you

if you get a project thats really long that wont fit on a cdr.. always check with the label, some would rather have an Exabyte then a DVD.

Adebar · 24th December 2006

Isn´t that strange? You make projects i guess from 2000 to 20000 $ and rely on a CD-R for 0,50 $ as final medium with the format CD-Audio.
Is this really the best choice?

After burning about 40000 CD copies my favourite master medium is a Jam image file on DVD.
I even prefered DVD-RAM because you wouln´t believe how often i find fingerprints on the Master CD which sometimes causes problems on load in.

Roland · 24th December 2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adebar

Isn´t that strange? You make projects i guess from 2000 to 20000 $ and rely on a CD-R for 0,50 $ as final medium with the format CD-Audio.
Is this really the best choice?

After burning about 40000 CD copies my favourite master medium is a Jam image file on DVD.
I even prefered DVD-RAM because you wouln´t believe how often i find fingerprints on the Master CD which sometimes causes problems on load in.

I think you are missing the point, we are talking DDP image file sent on a CDR or a DVD-R. This is a parity checked master, could also be sent by ftp, the cost of the CDR is not a factor, the format is robust. Sending the file on a DVD ram has no additional benefit, unless people are handling the discs badly (and you have to assume that people working in glass mastering clean rooms have some understanding of contamination) and as was stated above, the chance that the plant has DVD-ram capability is unlikely.

To all intents and purposes there is no real difference between a DVD-R and a CDR except their storage capacity. Jam image files are not a pro format or industry compatible and as such wouldn't meet requirements for CD replication.

Regards

Roland

Adebar · 6th January 2007

Of course Jam files are no standard. I only wanted to stress that audiofiles on CD or DVD have more redundancy than the CD Audio.
So DDP master are the better format than CD-Audio.

At the plant i expect everybody to handle a CD or DVD properly. But how fast could someone touch the surface by mistake.
The other benefit could be that nobody would have the idea to replicate the DVD-RAM. But it happened already that a DDP Image on CD-R was replicated 10,000 times.

But i give in. If you tell me DVD-RAM would be overkill I assume you are right because the practice of using CD-R or DVD-R has shown in most cases that it works.

12th December 2006	#1
gunofason Gear Head Joined: Mar 2006 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 41 Thread Starter	Using CD's or DVD's for DDP Images... Is there a difference in creating a final DDP master as a DVD or CD? I'm considering going the DDP route exclusively and was curious to know the difference. It seems I've seen people go both ways and from what I understand, most reputable premastering systems give you the option to choose from. Are their pro's & con's? Do replicators recommend either one over another? Thanks!!

22nd December 2006	#9
mrlouie Gear addict Joined: Oct 2006 Location: Hollywood Posts: 328	99% of the time lables ask for them on a CDR .. one, i cant think of right now always wants it on a DVD ... i dont know if that helps you if you get a project thats really long that wont fit on a cdr.. always check with the label, some would rather have an Exabyte then a DVD. __________________ louie teran Marcussen Mastering

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Email this Page	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
How do I post Jpeg images here???	Bruce Swedien	Bruce Swedien	17	24th August 2006 08:53 PM
ensoniq cd images to diskette	tikcor	Rap + Hip Hop engineering & production	3	15th February 2006 03:37 AM
ensoniq cd images to diskette... help	tikcor	Music computers	0	11th February 2006 06:54 PM
DBX DDP...	KurtR	So much gear, so little time!	1	25th September 2005 02:33 AM

12th December 2006	#2
zenmastering Gear maniac Joined: Jun 2005 Location: Left Coast of Canada Posts: 298	I haven't experienced a preference either way. The length of the programme material will, of course, be the deciding factor. If you are using a particular replicator, also check if they accept FTP delivery as an alternative to sending a physical disk. Lastly, make sure you have some way of turning that DDP into a CD-R that can be checked by a human being before it gets sent anywhere... Best, Graemme

14th December 2006	#3
Thor Lives for gear Joined: Jun 2002 Location: Norway Posts: 792 Verified Member	Most of my deliveries are DDP, and most of them on CD-R. As Graemme said (Hi Graemme, how's things...), talk to the plant and see what they prefer, and make sure the the DDP actually contains the data you want pressed... I work closely with several local plants and know that they actually read the big red letters on the CD-R that says "DDP image file!", and can ftp stuff as well when needed. There have been (very rare) occasions where a (completely different) plant has replicated thousands of data CD's from the DDP, but usually you expect that the people who work at a professional replicator are required to be able to have basic reading skills in order to get the job . This was after I called to verify that they could accept a DDP on CD-R and was told 'no problem, just make sure to mark the master clearly'. Ahem. A DVD-R can (in some cases) be a garantee that you don't get a straight CD-R copy, but again, check with the plant/broker first. If in doubt, include both (DDP and CDDA) and let the plant choose. Yes, it takes more time, but can save headaches for the client later on. Cheers, Thor

20th December 2006	#4
Adebar Lives for gear Joined: May 2005 Posts: 798	Some mastering engineers think DVD-RAM is the best way for delivering a DDP master. It is obvious that it won´t be replicated by accident. The medium itself has a better redundancy than DVD-R. In a cardridge itis protected against mechanical issues like scraches and fingerprints. What do you think?

24th December 2006	#10
Adebar Lives for gear Joined: May 2005 Posts: 798	Isn´t that strange? You make projects i guess from 2000 to 20000 $ and rely on a CD-R for 0,50 $ as final medium with the format CD-Audio. Is this really the best choice? After burning about 40000 CD copies my favourite master medium is a Jam image file on DVD. I even prefered DVD-RAM because you wouln´t believe how often i find fingerprints on the Master CD which sometimes causes problems on load in.

6th January 2007	#12
Adebar Lives for gear Joined: May 2005 Posts: 798	Of course Jam files are no standard. I only wanted to stress that audiofiles on CD or DVD have more redundancy than the CD Audio. So DDP master are the better format than CD-Audio. At the plant i expect everybody to handle a CD or DVD properly. But how fast could someone touch the surface by mistake. The other benefit could be that nobody would have the idea to replicate the DVD-RAM. But it happened already that a DDP Image on CD-R was replicated 10,000 times. But i give in. If you tell me DVD-RAM would be overkill I assume you are right because the practice of using CD-R or DVD-R has shown in most cases that it works.