Tweak on the Buisness Model? Sony Internet Mastering

[Eric Greedy]

http://www.sonymusicsim.com/

Of course it's more of a marketing thing than anything... but isn't that (seemingly) a big key to success in our culture?

[xist]

Uhm, don't we have hundreds of mastering studios online already, with similar price range? Maybe this is a bit faster as service, dunno, I don't get it... or better I just see the marketing move behind it.

[jdg]

hahaha i love have the image of the waveform comebacks flattopped.

[arf]

I take this as a sign that SMS will probably not be around much longer. Their overhead is way too enormous to be competing on price and service with much smaller mastering companies.

[Masterer]

It's actually a logical step from a management point of view. I'm sure they have a ton of manpower [hiring everyone from every studio that has recently closed] and lots of rooms [Sony is a big place with lots of mastering rooms]. Lower buget work requires the same amount of human resources from a scheduling point of view as "fuller rate" work does. Creating an automated [or at leat semi-automated] system takes much of the admin workload off of the managers and allows Sony to maximise it's manpower by circumventing the scheduling issues associated with booking an individual engineer in his/her specific room. Simply slide the project into the schedule of the first available engineer an off you go. Eliminate downtime. Simplify scheduling. Good for the bottom line.

I realize I'm biased but if I were a client I would be very dubious of a faceless nameless vending machine approach to mastering [although there is a lot of talent at Sony, and someone very skilled might master your project I'd sure like to know who was working on my project - in fact I'd want to CHOOSE the engineer].

Anyway, I give them credit for being resourceful. Time will tell how effective they are with this approach

[arf]

Originally Posted by Masterer

... if I were a client I would be very dubious of a faceless nameless vending machine approach to mastering [although there is a lot of talent at Sony, and someone very skilled might master your project I'd sure like to know who was working on my project - in fact I'd want to CHOOSE the engineer]...

It's exactly this point that will keep some engineers viable in this side of the business. Now that anybody can "master" it's the individual relationship between engineer and client that will matter most. The engineer needs to be able to rise to the level of a production partner in trust and skill. Otherwise, you can be replaced by a plug in.

[RhOdEz]

James Cruz from sony music mastering puts a smile on my face every time.
He rescued quite a few mixes ,and he's always fast and delivers top quality results.

thumbsup

[Checkmate Muzik]

Originally Posted by RhOdEz

James Cruz from sony music mastering puts a smile on my face every time.
He rescued quite a few mixes ,and he's always fast and delivers top quality results.

thumbsup

he mastered my nas remix. dope engineer.

[Jacek Gawlowski]

Originally Posted by Eric Greedy

http://www.sonymusicsim.com/

Of course it's more of a marketing thing than anything... but isn't that (seemingly) a big key to success in our culture?

In my opinion the big key to success in mastering is hard work and credits.
Online mastering is fine as long as a client is able to communicate with
a mastering engineer.It should be treated only as a simpler and quicker
way of transfering files to and from the mastering house.That's it!

JG

[Timecode]

I haven't been around as long as some of the other posters around here (5 years, only recently full time) but I was wondering if mastering is getting less personal and more 'black box'? I do dance music almost exclusively, and when I ask my clients if they want to attend a session they generally look at me like I'm a bit strange, and when I ask them for feedback on a master I get very little. I get the feeling most of my clients regard mastering as a process where you stick a mix in one end and get a master out the other end - even though it is their own work and they have the best idea of how it should sound they are not keen to get involved in the process. On the one one hand I understand this as I've mastered hundreds of tracks and played them on hundreds of systems and have a pretty good idea of what will translate, but at the end of the day it's sometimes a bit wierd having the last word on a project that may have taken the artist months to work on and I just do in a day. I don't complain - recalls are a pain - and please bear in mind that trends in the dance scene in Cape Town, South Africa may not reflect the industry in general I was just wondering if some of those who have been around a bit longer see this as a trend (as opposed to attended, hands-on sessions) or if this is how it has always been.

Cheers
Matthew

[jayfrigo]

An interesting read on the subject; Billboard article so it would seem:

http://www.sonymusicstudios.com/news...ge/album1.html

[brethes]

Originally Posted by jayfrigo

An interesting read on the subject; Billboard article so it would seem:

http://www.sonymusicstudios.com/news...ge/album1.html

"Jobs are handled by...the majority by its staff of junior mastering engineers".

"Junior" being the operative word here, not sure how truly good value this actually is, except for the junior staff who will have material to practice on! tutt

[streaky]

Originally Posted by brethes@mac.com

"Jobs are handled by...the majority by its staff of junior mastering engineers".

"Junior" being the operative word here, not sure how truly good value this actually is, except for the junior staff who will have material to practice on! tutt

Fair point, but everyone has to start somewhere...and seeing as a service such as this is undoubtedly aimed at clients who can't afford top rates but still want to master at a famous studio, it couldn't really be a better way for young engineers to get their teeth into some music. Let's face it, these engineers are probably ok (so what if you haven't heard of them) as they're working at Sony and they will also be trusted enough by their senior engineers to put out a finished product.

It's highly unlikely that the more discerning/wealthy clients like major labels or big name producers will use this service, they'll just carry on using Sony Studios the same as they always did - attend the cut with top engineer, pay more. The online service works on a few levels:

1. Give musicians/producers/labels with smaller budgets the opportunity to master at a famous studio

2. Give junior engineers a much deserved chance to build up their body of work

3. Get a bit more work in for a studio who may have too many rooms and not enough work (just conjecture on this one...)

Anyway as has already been stated in this thread Sony aren't the first US studio to launch a cut price service, and this is also thriving in the UK. But at the end of the day, it still comes down to a combination of the engineer's credits and the studio's past clients.

[masteringhouse]

Isn't this idea basically the same as Sterling After Hours?

[Masterer]

Originally Posted by masteringhouse

Isn't this idea basically the same as Sterling After Hours?

No, they have nothing in common [unless I misread the article].

Sony's concept is designed to automate and streamline the billing and scheduling process. You send send in yer project and the first available ME masters it [again, unless I completely misread].

Sterlings after hours is the same business model as Sterling "not after hours". You speak to a booking manager when you call to schedule the project, you choose the engineer you'd like to work with [based on their discography, or in some cases a "test run"]. You can speak to the engineer. You can attend the session, etc etc etc. The only differences are you're not booking one of the senior mastering engineers, and it's more affordable. From a business standpoint it works in a number of ways. It is an efficient use of available studio time [we can't all work 24 hours a day] and it helps to develop the next generation of Sterling's mastering staff. My assistant worked for me for 3 years before he started doing sessions. For six months I checked [and in some cases fixed] EVERY project that he did. Over time I stopped fixing, then I stoppeed checking and he's been going gangbusters ever since. It's very old-school and traditional [the classic apprenticeship thing that is].

It's an intelligent response to an ever changing [and challenging] business atmosphere that does not change Sterlings fundamental modus operandi.

I doubt you could say the same about Sony's new business model [at least the fundamental modus operandi part].

My two Krugerrands.

[masteringhouse]

Originally Posted by Masterer

Sterlings after hours is the same business model as Sterling "not after hours". You speak to a booking manager when you call to schedule the project, you choose the engineer you'd like to work with [based on their discography, or in some cases a "test run"]. You can speak to the engineer. You can attend the session, etc etc etc.

Ah, cool!

Back in the 90's I remember some of the main engineers were also doing this, yes?

[Masterer]

Originally Posted by masteringhouse

Ah, cool!

Back in the 90's I remember some of the main engineers were also doing this, yes?

Not since I've been here [since '98 or so].

Maybe before.

[studjo]

Originally Posted by Masterer

My two Krugerrands.

thanks for those


Jo

[MWP]

Any Lawyers here?
Conditions from the Mastering website.

GRANT OF LICENSE

You hereby grant SONY BMG and its affiliates a non-exclusive, royalty-free, fully paid up, perpetual, irrevocable and fully sub-licensable right and license to reproduce, modify, adapt, publish, translate, create derivative works from, distribute, display and otherwise use the Materials you provide throughout the world in any media for the purpose of promoting the Sony Music Studios and the Sony Music Studios Internet Mastering Services.

MWP

[beachhunt]

Originally Posted by MWP

Any Lawyers here?
Conditions from the Mastering website.

GRANT OF LICENSE

You hereby grant SONY BMG and its affiliates a non-exclusive, royalty-free, fully paid up, perpetual, irrevocable and fully sub-licensable right and license to reproduce, modify, adapt, publish, translate, create derivative works from, distribute, display and otherwise use the Materials you provide throughout the world in any media for the purpose of promoting the Sony Music Studios and the Sony Music Studios Internet Mastering Services.

MWP

I figure they put that in so they can post sample clips and things of that nature, but it is certainly broad enough to cause trouble if they were so inclined.

[s.d.finley]

Originally Posted by jdg

hahaha i love have the image of the waveform comebacks flattopped.

LOL!!

Thats truth in advertising!!!

[Riccardo]

Originally Posted by MWP

Any Lawyers here?
Conditions from the Mastering website.

GRANT OF LICENSE

You hereby grant SONY BMG and its affiliates a non-exclusive, royalty-free, fully paid up, perpetual, irrevocable and fully sub-licensable right and license to reproduce, modify, adapt, publish, translate, create derivative works from, distribute, display and otherwise use the Materials you provide throughout the world in any media for the purpose of promoting the Sony Music Studios and the Sony Music Studios Internet Mastering Services.

MWP

Seems a bit too much to me "Create derivative works from"?

[Lownotes]

Has anyone tried it?

[jdg]

well if u have sound forge 9 you can upload directy to Sony Internet Mastering from the application!
http://www.sonycreativesoftware.com/...ID=48&spid=444 (4th bullet down)

[yareck]

Originally Posted by streaky

1. Give musicians/producers/labels with smaller budgets the opportunity to master at a famous studio

I wouldn't be so sure if a lot of young producers won't think that they will get an easier deal with SONY-BMG or sub-labels after such a mastering.

[streaky]

Originally Posted by yareck

I wouldn't be so sure if a lot of young producers won't think that they will get an easier deal with SONY-BMG or sub-labels after such a mastering.

Hmm...not sure it quite works like that!

It's likely that a large proportion of the people using this service will already be signed to a label of some kind, whether it's a small indie or just one they've set up themselves. Around half of the clients for our online service (set up 2 years before Sony's, btw ) are independent record labels, the other percentages being made up of producers, engineers and artists paying for themselves.

[Thomas W. Bethe]

Lets face the music (pun intended). Mastering is NOT what it use to be and is NOT done, in many cases, by a highly skilled mastering engineer with lots of experience. It is done, like most recording today, in someone's basement or bedroom.

Sony is feeling the pinch just like everyone else. They have to compete in a world where prices are dropping daily on mastering and recording and at the same time they have a lot of money invested in personnel and facilities so they have to keep the money flowing in the front door. This seems like the ideal way to make money and keep their staff busy.

I think that in the not too distant future online mastering or non attended mastering maybe the norm and attended sessions maybe a thing of the past. I also think that in the next couple of years a lot of the medium level mastering facilities maybe in trouble. They will NOT be able to compete with the $20.00 per hour (and less) mastering places that are popping up like spring flowers everywhere you look. It takes money to be able to keep the lights on and the equipment in good repair and if you are not making a good buck then you maybe out of business.

One of the really good mastering studios here in town went from doing 4 sessions a week to NO SESSIONS a week. It was nothing that he did or did not do it was just that everyone wants to DIY their own stuff. He has had to diversify and I think that will be the name of the game for us all.

I was recently in the local Guitar Center. There was a musician buying lots of "mastering" plug ins and hardware so he could DIY himself. He blew about $3,500 on the gear and the software and after talking to him for a while came away with the feeling that he knew NOTHING about mastering. He told me that he was going to read a book and start mastering his own stuff...probably next week or this weekend. I wished him well and thought to myself for what he had just invested in equipment he could have paid a pro mastering engineer for five CD mastering sessions which is probably more than he will do in 10 years .

Go figure...

[streaky]

Interesting point of view Thomas...but a bit Doom and Gloom for my liking.

The fact of the matter is this - budgets are dropping and leading studios are offering their services cheaper on the internet, alongside their regular rates.

But these 2 things aren't necessarily linked. You'll find that the leading studios in the US and also here in the UK are as busy as ever. For us, launching our services online for a lower price was simply a way to probe a new target clientele who definitely couldn't afford the top rate.

Out of the top studios here in London, 2 are offering online mastering and another 2 have it in the pipeline. It's a natural progression in conjunction with technological advance. It's not remotely a case of needing to drop prices - our price for attended work has been the same for 3 years, the same length of time our online service has been running.

And with leading studios offering online mastering, it's definitely not a case of these studios needing to compete with $20/hour in-the box or plugin mastering. It's the other way round. Why? Because quality always shines through. It's the little guys that will struggle to compete with the major studios, because prospective clients who are looking for the highest quality mastering within a limited budget will just look and say, "$20 per hour? It must be crap."

I realise I'm being a bit doom and gloom the other way round, and I apologise - I guess the whole thing just comes down to how much people want to spend in relation the the quality of the result they're expecting.

[Thomas W. Bethe]

I did not mean for my post to be DOOM AND GLOOM but the facts are what the facts are. There are MANY MORE people doing "bedroom mastering" than there were a few years ago and LOTS of musicians are trying their hand a mastering as well as recording and mixing. There is ABSOLUTELY nothing wrong with everyone doing their own recording and mixing and mastering. DIY seem to be the rule not only for audio but for home remodeling. Look at the rise of the super stores like Lowe's and Home Depot mostly catering to the DIY person. Hey if you can put in a new wood floor why NOT record, mix and master your own stuff.

The problem arises when professional mastering engineers on this board have to compete with someone who has nary a idea of how real mastering is done. They go to Sam Ash or Sweetwater buy some mastering toys and then read a couple of post here or maybe purchase Bob Katz's book and then they hang out a sign saying MASTERING DONE HERE. And they charge next to nothing for their services.

Since the average Joe or Jill on the street thinks that all mastering is done the same what difference does it make who they go to? Quality be damned. It is, in many people's minds, how much can I save by getting my stuff mastered on line for $5.00 per tune. Not how good will the mastering be or how much better will it sound.

Today most of my clients spend way more on their CD release party than they ever spent for mastering.

The simple fact is most people today equate loudness with mastering and the person who can get their stuff to sound louder will win the race. It is NOT about quality or sonic transparency or whatever it is all about how LOUD can you make my stuff to compete in the marketplace.

Sorry if I was too much doom and gloom but this has NOT been a good year for a lot of people in this geographical area. Some of my really good friends are in real trouble and/or getting there really fast.

Hope you are having a GREAT day!

[thethrillfactor]

Originally Posted by Thomas W. Bethe

I think that in the not too distant future online mastering or non attended mastering maybe the norm and attended sessions maybe a thing of the past.

How about not charging 2 different rates for an attended session versus non attended?

How about encouraging the artist/producers to attend the sessions and not discourage them by making it seem its better when they don't like its an inconveniance for the ME?

How about when you attend the session with the name ME not rushing through the process and getting upset when the client likes it better before and is not feeling your mastering? How about trying something else and not throwing your hands up and crying "it needs to be remixed there is nothing else i can do"?

How about not pricing the Mastering sessions out of the market to the point where as an independent record label you are made to feel like a second class citizen compared to a major label release and are made to wait months for booking a session where if you were a major they would find a way to squeeze you in?


How about if you are flying in from out of town have things for your clients to do to enjoy their time in your town? Maybe invite them over for a barbecue or offer them tickets to an off broadway show or even movie/ball game tickets especially when they are paying $500 an hour and being rushed through it?

I am not saying this goes for all Mastering facilities. But it happens at some. Maybe the ME is having a bad day or the ME house is swamped but if you still want to keep clients and get newer ones there shouldn't be a division in treatment between a major and independent project.

And yeah i know its the one's with the "big" names that give the house more notoriety and allows you to charge and exhorbitant amount...but come on after a while its like?