Someone in here with a Manley VariMu Limiter?

[24-96 Mastering]

Originally Posted by jayfrigo

As for time constants, the stock unit gets plenty slow on the attack, but I might not mind one more faster release setting for some things.

Makes me wonder if it'd be easily possibly to mod the Vari-Mu release times on the standard version.

Not knowing the design at all, would it be technically possible to have a 'halve release time switch'? Does anyone know?
Being able to switch from values 5 - 4 - 3 - 2 - 1 to values 2.5 - 2 - 1.5 - 1 - 0.5 would be very interesting to me.

If not, can single release times be 'replaced' with different values easily?

[Ruairi]

Originally Posted by 24-96 Mastering

Makes me wonder if it'd be easily possibly to mod the Vari-Mu release times on the standard version.

Not knowing the design at all, would it be technically possible to have a 'halve release time switch'? Does anyone know?
Being able to switch from values 5 - 4 - 3 - 2 - 1 to values 2.5 - 2 - 1.5 - 1 - 0.5 would be very interesting to me.

If not, can single release times be 'replaced' with different values easily?

The release time switch is selecting a capacitor - smaller cap is a shorter release time. On the old 6836 version the smallest cap is .067uF. The easiest way to halve the values of these caps is to find the value and solder the same value in series (or remove and select one with half the value approx).

Cheers,
Ruairi

[24-96 Mastering]

Originally Posted by Ruairi

The release time switch is selecting a capacitor - smaller cap is a shorter release time. On the old 6836 version the smallest cap is .067uF. The easiest way to halve the values of these caps is to find the value and solder the same value in series (or remove and select one with half the value approx).

Cheers,
Ruairi

So half cap value = half the release time?

[dcollins]

Originally Posted by 24-96 Mastering

So half cap value = half the release time?

Yes, although in some limiters there is a physical limit to how fast the time constants can be made. In theory you should be able to speed the Vari-Mu up, but too fast of a release can also cause problems.

RC Time Constant Calculator


DC

[24-96 Mastering]

Originally Posted by dcollins

Yes, although in some limiters there is a physical limit to how fast the time constants can be made. In theory you should be able to speed the Vari-Mu up, but too fast of a release can also cause problems.

RC Time Constant Calculator


DC

Thanks for that. Can you think of any problem with implementing a switch to route to a second set of caps at half values?

[dcollins]

Originally Posted by 24-96 Mastering

Thanks for that. Can you think of any problem with implementing a switch to route to a second set of caps at half values?

No, it should be fine. Usual disclaimers that too-fast release can cause distortion, warranty voided, high-voltages present, etc.

DC

[24-96 Mastering]

Originally Posted by dcollins

No, it should be fine. Usual disclaimers that too-fast release can cause distortion, warranty voided, high-voltages present, etc.

DC

Fantastic! I think I've got myself a project here.

[matucha]

What do you listen for when setting the mu spot? Today (after quite a longe time) I found out going past 1 o'clock gets harder in the highs - esp. on hihats and sibilance it isn't nice 9 times of 10. I guess I missread the mu spot being between 1-2 o'clock and tried to use VM in that range. What a mistake, it's much smoother if I stay below 1.

[Strut78]

Originally Posted by matucha

What do you listen for when setting the mu spot? Today (after quite a longe time) I found out going past 1 o'clock gets harder in the highs - esp. on hihats and sibilance it isn't nice 9 times of 10. I guess I missread the mu spot being between 1-2 o'clock and tried to use VM in that range. What a mistake, it's much smoother if I stay below 1.

It does depend on the level you're sending to it, so there are really no set and forget settings. You just need to look for the spot that sounds best with the track you are working on. I don't have a Manley but i use a Phoenix every day, and I find that going through the process of adding half a db to the input and subtracting half a db on the output of my dangerous master allows me to find the sweet spot, so I am guessing it is similar to the Manley.

[matucha]

I'm not sure what exactly the input gain on manley drives, but there seems to be "absolute" coloring that depends on where the input is set and not only dependent on the level that comes in. Similar to for example manley mic preamp that has different sound in 45dB and 60dB gain. At least it seems that way to me now. Someone (with manley) please correct me if I'm wrong.

[inlinenl]

I used to feel the sweet spot is a combi of setting the level you want first .. then apply the threshold and release settings .. switching between linked/un-linked with a great set of matchin L&R tubes is the cherry on the cake ..

damm you still need all controls & listen :-)

but dialing in the right threshold , just where it sounds best was always fun to me ...
the release feeds the balance between background and foreground very nicely ..

I could turn the input pretty hot sometimes , it would be nice if the unit would have one meter for input & one for GR .... so you could relate more easy to the sound vs input ...
visuals sometimes help ...

[dcollins]

Originally Posted by matucha

I'm not sure what exactly the input gain on manley drives, but there seems to be "absolute" coloring that depends on where the input is set and not only dependent on the level that comes in. Similar to for example manley mic preamp that has different sound in 45dB and 60dB gain. At least it seems that way to me now. Someone (with manley) please correct me if I'm wrong.

The input level control is before the transformer and the vari-mu tubes.

In most setups unity gain is going to be about 1 o'clock on the input knob.


DC

[Jerry Tubb]

Originally Posted by matucha

What do you listen for when setting the mu spot? Today (after quite a longe time) I found out going past 1 o'clock gets harder in the highs - esp. on hihats and sibilance it isn't nice 9 times of 10. I guess I missread the mu spot being between 1-2 o'clock and tried to use VM in that range. What a mistake, it's much smoother if I stay below 1.

Here's a pic (from post #50) of a "Mu spot" setting I used on a song, a few years ago.

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/attac...-manley_jt.jpg

Must have been a ballad with that medium release time.

Looks fairly conservative on the output levels as well.

Cheers, JT

[matucha]

Hmm... different gainstaging than I have. Also I don't remember using anything else than fast and the second fastest setting. If I could choose, halving the times available on VM would be my choice.



This is what I used for a smooth blues/jazz. Note the trackers... yes they match LR (tresholds, outputs), but the calibration is wrong. Well... the chain is gyraf g14>trakkers (doing very little on ocassional peaks) > MU (around 1dB reduction.
This was a very dynamic material, most of the time around -9dB at converters with some peaks (snares mostly). It is set so the level comming out is ~the same on input (easy to compare and safe with peaks).
Your outpus and tresholds are in very different spots.

The input level control is before the transformer and the vari-mu tubes.

In most setups unity gain is going to be about 1 o'clock on the input knob.


DC

Than you. Unity gain is 1 o'clock? Strange concept, good to know. I may want to read the manual again and do some tests with sinewaves/FFTs.

[dcollins]

Originally Posted by matucha

Than you. Unity gain is 1 o'clock? Strange concept, good to know. I may want to read the manual again and do some tests with sinewaves/FFTs.

Yes. That's why you always see the input knob in that area.

The output knob is a pad on the output that's after the transformer, so it never has any effect of saturation or tube magic. Unless it's to a subsequent stage, of course.


DC

[matucha]

So output is in unity fully clockwise then. Thanks for info, good to know.

[dcollins]

Originally Posted by matucha

So output is in unity fully clockwise then. Thanks for info, good to know.

Yes. Output wide open, input roughly around 1 o'clock was how I always ran mine.


DC

[jac]

Originally Posted by dcollins

Yes. Output wide open, input roughly around 1 o'clock was how I always ran mine.


DC

Same here. I play around 1 o'clock and mostly the output is wide (and wild) open. Since the output doesn't color I prefer to let it sing at the best. I have to admit that sometimes I can be more conservative if there's some other unit after the VM, but usually still goes around 4 o'clock.

[ScottHull]

Originally Posted by perun

Well, after AB testing VariMu with Neve 33609, Thermionic and Avalon, we've discovered that it sucks! Really.
Cheers.

non-defensive reply.. I've found the Vari-Mu to be REALY sensitive to loading. It can sound great in one chain and really odd / thin / cardboard like in another. I don't know exactly why.. but when it doesn't sound good - i change the configuration.

[Jerry Tubb]

Originally Posted by dcollins

Yes. Output wide open, input roughly around 1 o'clock was how I always ran mine.

DC

Interesting Dave, perhaps it's changed on the >2004 versions of Manley VM.

I find unity to be about 12 O'Clock on input, 2 O'Clock on output.

"Output wide open, input roughly around 1 o'clock" gives me ~ -3dBFS.

'Course my measurements are based on passing a 1k signal thru at -14dBFS,

not any internal testing.

Best, JT

[dcollins]

Originally Posted by Jerry Tubb

Interesting Dave, perhaps it's changed on the >2004 versions of Manley VM.

I find unity to be about 12 O'Clock on input, 2 O'Clock on output.

"Output wide open, input roughly around 1 o'clock" gives me ~ -3dBFS.

'Course my measurements are based on passing a 1k signal thru at -14dBFS,

not any internal testing.

All it means is that you use a different electrical calibration. -14dBFS is not a voltage.

I'm not sure if the actual internal levels of older/newer units are any different, but I doubt it. If so, not by much.

I was just clarifying that the mystical, magical, "mu-spot" is really just where it starts to go into gain-reduction and it's unlikely that there is any tube or transformer saturation happening at that level.


DC

[Jerry Tubb]

Originally Posted by dcollins

All it means is that you use a different electrical calibration. -14dBFS is not a voltage.

I'm not sure if the actual internal levels of older/newer units are any different, but I doubt it. If so, not by much.

I was just clarifying that the mystical, magical, "mu-spot" is really just where it starts to go into gain-reduction and it's unlikely that there is any tube or transformer saturation happening at that level.

DC

OK to clarify, that's my DAC output level feeding my analog path,

-14dBFS @1kHz = 0 VU / +4dBu = 1.23 volts.

I flinched when I read your post about unity = 1 o'clock & wide open.

Just different than my experience with the VM : - )

Originally Posted by ScottHull

non-defensive reply.. I've found the Vari-Mu to be REALY sensitive to loading. It can sound great in one chain and really odd / thin / cardboard like in another. I don't know exactly why.. but when it doesn't sound good - i change the configuration.

I've always described the VM's sound as Majestic!

Especially at the Mu spot.

"non-defensive reply" I like that, perhaps non-offensive as well.

Best, JT

[Jimmy Makhaisingh]

Got mine Mu mastering version yesterday !!!
It has all options as HP/MS and Tbar

Always mixing itb (PT HDX), but this analog thing at the end

All tips n tricks are welcome