WHATS THE BEST SIGNAL PATH FOR MASTERING??

[steviestarbucks]

USING A SSL DUENDE TO MASTER UP SOME DEMOS WOULD YOU PUT THE C0MP FIRST AND THEN EQ IN THE OUTPUT TRACK OF LOGIC OR THE OTHER WAY ROUND OR DOESN T IT MATTER??

[Rob Murray]

It depends what youre trying to do. obviously EQing or not before the compressor changes how the compressor reacts. If theres too much bass you may want to EQ before, or at last sidechain. Same with boomy etc. If its a decent mix already it might be best to compress, and then EQ because the spectral balance will not be the same after compression as it was before.
The best bet though is if youre unsure, try it both ways and listen to which sounds better, because they will sound quite different if youre doing a decent amount of compression or EQ.

[steviestarbucks]

thanks...do you have any good mastering duende presets or advice on a nicely mixed track just needing warmth and sparkle

[cdog]

I would say if you have to ask these question you should not be mastering the track.

Mastering is not called mastering because it is performed by neophytes.

There are no such things as "mastering presets," and anyone who tells you otherwise has something to sell you.

[silverking]

Also, remember to master everything with your caps lock off.

[swimslowly]

Originally Posted by silverking

Also, remember to master everything with your caps lock off.

i'd second that excellent advice.

[Are Sorknes]

Originally Posted by silverking

Also, remember to master everything with your caps lock off.

Loudness wars, remember?

[Mastering101]

Originally Posted by Are Sorknes

Loudness wars, remember?

lol...

[javahut]

Originally Posted by cdog

I would say if you have to ask these question you should not be mastering the track.

Mastering is not called mastering because it is performed by neophytes.

There are no such things as "mastering presets," and anyone who tells you otherwise has something to sell you.

In general, you're right. If someone's only goal is to have a "professionally" mastered track, and they don't know what they're doing... sure.

But this idea that mastering is so mysteriously complicated that no one should try it unless you're a professional is ridiculous. I see this idea spread on numerous boards. What if your goal is to learn to master? How else does someone learn to master unless they start at the beginning? Contrary to popular belief, even professional mastering engineers had to start somewhere at some time with no "professional mastering" experience. Or else they wouldn't now be mastering engineers.

In short, "it ain't rocket science", so if you wanna have a go at it... have a go at it... there's nothing wrong with that. You might learn something. thumbsup

[Rob Murray]

Originally Posted by javahut

What if your goal is to learn to master? How else does someone learn to master unless they start at the beginning? Contrary to popular belief, even professional mastering engineers had to start somewhere at some time with no "professional mastering" experience. Or else they wouldn't now be mastering engineers.

I think its safe to say no current pro mastering engineer started out by using presets. I also think its safe to say that youre right theres nothing mysterious about mastering, the actual process is simple, but the ears and experience are key. Before you can get the experience you must first train your ears. Learning to master is great, but you have to have an idea of what you're trying to do, otherwise what are you doing?

[Riccardo]

Yes ears and experience, therefore time, long time, especially with today's standards where everybody seems to be wanting to get results in the shortest possible time.

The original poster asked about using a comp first or an eq first. I am sure we are all happy to give an answer and yes there is nothing misterious in mastering.
Moreover we have all been at one point "beginners"

Experience is build up, created, formed with time. The question about what goes first in a chain (we know there is no set rule....) is applicable to mixing as well as mastering.
I am not saying that a mastering engineer should train as a mixing engineer first but those notions are at the base of engineering itself.

What I am trying to say here is that yes all questions are welcome but also that you cannot miracolously become experienced in one day.
Also it takes a bit of effor on your side as well: ask ,think, ask again, agree, disagree, go on try it for yourself, ask again, listen, read, research, do, undo.............

[dcollins]

Originally Posted by Riccardo

What I am trying to say here is that yes all questions are welcome but also that you cannot miraculously become experienced in one day.

Give me a fish!

DC

[Paul Gold]

Originally Posted by dcollins

Give me a fish!

DC

What's the best fish?

[masteringhouse]

Originally Posted by dcollins

Give me a fish!

DC

First bait the hook, then gently cast the line into the water. Don't go too deep in the water or you'll get a catfish, nasty little critters they are!

[steviestarbucks]

thanks for the mixed advice out there.. i think the word MASTERING was taken a little more seriously than intended, and without sounding like a dick i ve written songs selling millions of copies and would be more than happy to offer my humble advice to a novice.. so thanks to those who were friendly and **** you to those who weren t !!

[Timecode]

I don't think anyone had an issue with your first question, but asking an me for presets is like asking a songwriter for a chord progression to back some lyrics he hasn't even heard, and I think that's why there were some tongue-in-cheek remarks.

In response to your first question I'd generally eq first when the balance of the mix is quite off (normally bass heavy) and you don't want the compressor responding to bass that you are subsequently going to cut off - it sounds unnatural. If you are doing song-based stuff and are basically happy with the balance of the mix I'd suggest eqing after compression to get it to sound great, and then limiting like crazy to get it to sound modern .

Cheers
Matthew

[dave-G]

Originally Posted by dcollins

Give me a fish!

DC

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DU7rtgPLqjs

-dg

[dcollins]

Originally Posted by dave-G

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DU7rtgPLqjs

-dg

Got it. You put the compressor after the EQ!

DC

[masteringhouse]

Nobody was trying to be rude, in fact I think that if you read between the lines of the tongue-in-cheek responses you will find the real answer.

My first question is why are you using a model of an SSL console for mastering, isn't this for mixing? Chris Lord-Alge has some presets for the Waves version of the SSL plug-in, but again these are for mixing (not that I would use them as an absolute either).

The concept of mastering is to listen objectively to a mix and determine how to optimize it for playback on it's intended media. It would be better to do a bit of trial and error to determine how it impacts the sound of the mix, then repeat the process until you get the intended result, rather than rely on someone else's concept of what constitutes "sweetening" and hasn't even heard your mix.

Some people prefer salmon over trout. I'm glad that there's a choice over a Filet-O-Fish preset .

[lucey]

Originally Posted by steviestarbucks

USING A SSL DUENDE TO MASTER UP SOME DEMOS WOULD YOU PUT THE C0MP FIRST AND THEN EQ IN THE OUTPUT TRACK OF LOGIC OR THE OTHER WAY ROUND OR DOESN T IT MATTER??

Originally Posted by steviestarbucks

thanks...do you have any good mastering duende presets or advice on a nicely mixed track just needing warmth and sparkle

Originally Posted by steviestarbucks

thanks for the mixed advice out there.. i think the word MASTERING was taken a little more seriously than intended, and without sounding like a dick i ve written songs selling millions of copies and would be more than happy to offer my humble advice to a novice.. so thanks to those who were friendly and **** you to those who weren t !!

You dont sound like a dick, but you sound like an idiot. If you have that much experience why ask for presets? To write a hit song do you put the A before the Gm or the Gm before the A?

You want "warmth and sparkle"? Turn up the warmth and sparkle. If it sounds better with the eq in front, do that. If you flip it is it better?

[masteringhouse]

Originally Posted by masteringhouse

Nobody was trying to be rude, ...

Originally Posted by lucey

You dont sound like a dick, but you sound like an idiot.

Ok, well that was rude...

[steviestarbucks]

Originally Posted by lucey

You dont sound like a dick, but you sound like an idiot. If you have that much experience why ask for presets? To write a hit song do you put the A before the Gm or the Gm before the A?

You want "warmth and sparkle"? Turn up the warmth and sparkle. If it sounds better with the eq in front, do that. If you flip it is it better?

went to your site and your tips for mixing before mastering were very useful.. so thanks for that!! all i m trying to do is not soil some music that i ve sweated to make at the last hurdle before other people judge it.. quite often we can forget how fickle most listeners are and one bad sonic decision means they might ignore the subtle double entendre of a verse lyric or a beautifully arranged string section. if you get my drift... i ll learn to be more accurate in my posts in future

[lucey]

Originally Posted by masteringhouse

Ok, well that was rude...

Not at all, it was true.

The poster is NOT an idiot but his post SOUNDED like he was, and thus the responses.

[lucey]

Originally Posted by steviestarbucks

went to your site and your tips for mixing before mastering were very useful.. so thanks for that!! all i m trying to do is not soil some music that i ve sweated to make at the last hurdle before other people judge it.. quite often we can forget how fickle most listeners are and one bad sonic decision means they might ignore the subtle double entendre of a verse lyric or a beautifully arranged string section. if you get my drift... i ll learn to be more accurate in my posts in future

Sounds great ...

This board has some excellent engineers (who DO listen, very carefully) and we get a lot of dumb questions, so some people find it fun to use those posts as a punching bag. Turns out MEs are egotists/human like anyone else.

Better questions will get you better answers.

[masteringhouse]

Originally Posted by lucey

Not at all, it was true.

The poster is NOT an idiot but his post SOUNDED like he was, and thus the responses.

To me he didn't sound like an idiot, but "technically challenged". John Lennon once asked Martin or Emerick if he could record his voice direct without using microphone. Was he an idiot? He obviously knew where to place a Gm or A chord in relation to once another, but that's a different skill.

I believe the fish posts were merely a humorous allusion to the old saying "If you give a man a fish he will eat for a day. If you teach a man to fish he will eat for a lifetime."

Somehow the saying "You dont sound like a dick, but you sound like an idiot" doesn't have the same ring to it ...

But then I'm not f***ing Emily Post.

[lucey]

Somehow the saying "You dont sound like a dick, but you sound like an idiot" doesn't have the same ring to it ...

Not sure what your intentions are here...

My intent was to provide something useful to the original poster, about this board, his post, and the topic ... and from his response, I did. That's all that matters.

[Riccardo]

Ok, so we are back to the first response to the question.
We know every song is different...and choice depends on many factors but...do you guys (and hopefully gals hidden somewhere...) tend to use eq pre or post comp...?

[lucey]

I use a clean eq in front of any compression for clean up cuts and boost details ... and a wider moves tube eq after compression for it's tone on boosts.

[masteringhouse]

Originally Posted by Riccardo

Ok, so we are back to the first response to the question.
We know every song is different...and choice depends on many factors but...do you guys (and hopefully gals hidden somewhere...) tend to use eq pre or post comp...?

In general I would personally use it pre comp, in particular if the EQ was being used for corrective purposes (e.g. too much bass, mid, etc). The idea being that the comp should be reacting to the balanced mix.

One exeption might be using a comp with a sidechain, as in de-essing. In this case the comp would likely come first so that changes in the EQ wouldn't require constant re-setting of the threshold. Another exception might be for tonal shaping, or to make-up for loss of detail that a comp may impart, an EQ post comp may be better.

In some cases there is a sandwich of more than one EQ and comp each for a different purpose.

[elpillo]

I think that:
If I only have one eq and one comp, I would do the eq-ing before the compression.
Good luck.