Compression or Limiting for Loudness Question

[rashadrm@hotmai]

I was hoping to get some help on understanding the best way to raise the level on my reference mixes. I have a manley massive and vari-mu that I normally use and I want to know if it is better to hard limit the mix or compress it to get max volume without overdoing it.
I also have a TC6000 system and wanted to know if it would help to get the brick wall limiting program that they offer.
Any input from the experts would be appreciated.

These are Protools mixes to Masterlink & Tascam RA1000 decks with a HEDD192 for conversion.

[Rob Murray]

Doing both is generally an acceptable approach. Essentially the Compression is bringing up the RMS level moreso, and then the Peak Limiter is allowing you to raise the level of everything. It is also easier to use both in moderation than to try to get all your level from one anyhow. The EQ isnt going to get you anywhere with levels, I've never used the limiter in the 6000 though Im sure it's pretty good, but essentially if you can get it sounding good with your Vari-mu or whatever other compressors you may have, try doing that and then taking off the top 2-3 dB of transient with a peak limiter.

[stellar]

do me a favor and put the compressor in front of the massive, boost the level into the massive, and tell me if the massive input stage acts as a brickwall limiter. I noticed this the other day and was baffled, but went with it.

[rashadrm@hotmai]

Originally Posted by Rob Murray

Doing both is generally an acceptable approach. Essentially the Compression is bringing up the RMS level moreso, and then the Peak Limiter is allowing you to raise the level of everything. It is also easier to use both in moderation than to try to get all your level from one anyhow. The EQ isnt going to get you anywhere with levels, I've never used the limiter in the 6000 though Im sure it's pretty good, but essentially if you can get it sounding good with your Vari-mu or whatever other compressors you may have, try doing that and then taking off the top 2-3 dB of transient with a peak limiter.

Thanks for the info, does anyone out there use multiple units ? for instance a vari-mu for limiting and maybe a pair of trakkers for compression etc....?

[Riccardo]

Originally Posted by rashadrm@hotmai

Thanks for the info, does anyone out there use multiple units ? for instance a vari-mu for limiting and maybe a pair of trakkers for compression etc....?

yes, multiple units - if needed - are used. A compressor and a limiter, sometimes 2 different compressors, other times nothing at all..it depens but yes I reckon most of us have used in the right situation multiple units.

[Darius van H]

Getting something loud is a combination of many things.

Start with good source material (the mix) - then EQ, distort, compress, limit or clip to get the sound and loudness you want / need.

The equipment and combination used will depend on what you have available, the mix and what you're trying to achieve.

Personally i wouldn't use the Manley mu limiter for loudness....i'd rather reach for a digital limiter.

The subject was done to death here:

Ted Jensen.. Whose Watched Him?

Happy reading!

[DeeDrive]

Originally Posted by Rob Murray

The EQ isnt going to get you anywhere with levels

I would really say that...EQ is used frequenty in mastering simply for the sake of getting higher levels. Modern music is constantly having the bass and mid-bass sucked out for the sake of loudness. Also boosting certain mid-range frequencies give the illusion of loudness without increasing the peak level much. So I would say EQ has a lot to do with loudness.

As for compressors, 2 is almost always better than one. Each compressor will add certain artifacts to the sound when it is pushed hard, and if you use 2 different compressors, you can push each one a little softer, lessening the negative effects of the compression. Combine this with a good brick-wall limiter, and you can get some pretty high average levels.

[aivoryuk]

Originally Posted by rashadrm@hotmai

I was hoping to get some help on understanding the best way to raise the level on my reference mixes. I have a manley massive and vari-mu that I normally use and I want to know if it is better to hard limit the mix or compress it to get max volume without overdoing it.
I also have a TC6000 system and wanted to know if it would help to get the brick wall limiting program that they offer.
Any input from the experts would be appreciated.

These are Protools mixes to Masterlink & Tascam RA1000 decks with a HEDD192 for conversion.

compression alone will not make your mixes loud.
limiting/clipping will make your mixes loud

a mixture of all 3 will make your mixes annoyingly loud if over done, whcih if you don't know what you're doing is very possible

[rashadrm@hotmai]

Thanks for all of the replies, I'll experiment a bit with the multiple units approach.
probably trakkers to the vari-mu
does anyone have experience with the tc6000 brickwall limiter?

[vaesion]

Originally Posted by Darius van H

Getting something loud is a combination of many things.

Start with good source material (the mix) - then EQ, distort, compress, limit or clip to get the sound and loudness you want / need.


Ted Jensen.. Whose Watched Him?

Happy reading!

what do u use for distortion and how do u apply it?

[Darius van H]

Distortion could come from hitting the input on the Phoenix a bit harder, or from the Cranesong Hedd, or Ibis, or PSP vintage warmer. Lots of options, even more if you do it at mix time!

A bit of distortion can help achieve more loudness or thickness.........D