Clipping occurs in final mix but it sounds good..

[bjoo]

First of all, I'm really newbie in mastering world.

I did final 2-track mixdown at cubase and totally satisfiled with the result.
but it contains lot of clipping point. I tried to remove that using mastering limiter as usual but as soon as I put that, all the hotness and punchness are gone and became so-so mix.
Any suggestion? 3-4db clipping is really a big crime in digital mixing?

Thanks in advance.

[Darius van H]

If it sounds good, it is good.

however,

Clipping is just one tool out of many in the ME's arsenal to get the volume up.......if you give the ME a clipped file, you may have painted him into a corner, leaving him less options to do his thing.

Also, what you now may consider to be acceptable, distortion-wise, you may later regret, once you've accrued more experience and better monitoring.

So the moral of the tale is, spend a couple of minutes doing an extra version without the clipping just in case.

D

[MASSIVE Master]

Are you talking about not hearing it while listening to Cubase playing back in 32-bit FP?

Just turn it down - If it loses anything, there's something wrong.

[bob katz]

Originally Posted by MASSIVE Master

Are you talking about not hearing it while listening to Cubase playing back in 32-bit FP?

Just turn it down - If it loses anything, there's something wrong.

The 32 bit issue is one thing. The other thing is whether CLIPPING will translate. And it doesn't, it really screws up post processing. Low end DACs and CD players sound really bad with clipped material. MP3's can really degrade with clipped material because the spread spectrum and ultra high frequency content caused by the clipping makes it impossible to do a good coding. And broadcasts of clipped material tend to sound bad for similar reasons.

Read Orban's paper which you'll find in the back of my book and somewhere on the Internet, and Thomas Lund's paper on 0 dBFS+ at the TC website.

[bjoo]

Thanks guys.
I just wanted to know that do I have to prevent clipping at any cost and it sounds like I should.

[TREMORS]

I probably have no business adding a comment to this, with B. katz weighing in...

Im not sure about cubase, but I dont think all DAW meters are equal, either.
Clearly, if it's squaring off, it's clipped, but I have recorded files in PTLE that were not hitting red and exported to Sonar 4, and when played there, it is just smack into the red...and the opposite is true for me.
PT has a pretty obvious clip indicator, whileSonar seems to have more headroom before real clipping begins.
This may be result of 48 fixed vs 32 floating, however.

And, I am not sure if throwing a limiter on the master fader is any help, at all.
I always learned to keep the master fader at 0, and group and pull the other faders down. (again, PT lingo, at least..not sure of cubase)

It's FAR to easy to leave your volume knob/monitors low, and trying to squeeze more volume from the DAW itself....as we have all heard, probably...you gotta volume knob, if it aint loud enough, turn it up! (re: loudness wars)

Im equally curious about any more input in this area, as well.
And check Bob's columns at resolutionmag.com
Mastering is still a mystery to me, honestly.

-D

[Darius van H]

I'm not sure it's fair to say that clipped material always doesn't sound good when broadcast, converted or played back on crappy systems.

It depends on your definition of good - if you're listening from an audiophile, anti-distortion point of view, then granted, clipping is always bad.

On the other hand, if you're trying to achieve a "hot" master that retains a lot of punch and has similar apparent loudness to other songs in the same genre, then clipping can be a useful and valid tool.

D

[bob katz]

Originally Posted by Darius van H

I'm not sure it's fair to say that clipped material always doesn't sound good when broadcast, converted or played back on crappy systems.

It depends on your definition of good - if you're listening from an audiophile, anti-distortion point of view, then granted, clipping is always bad.

On the other hand, if you're trying to achieve a "hot" master that retains a lot of punch and has similar apparent loudness to other songs in the same genre, then clipping can be a useful and valid tool.

D

Yes, one man's meat is another man's poison. I'm torn from both sides every day of the week. Have pity on me. Client #1 doing a Latin Pop is asking me to give him another ref that's 1 dB hotter than the already clipped thing I produced whose RMS is already about a K-9!!! in order to "compete" on a CD changer with a terribly-distorted Mark Anthony with about a 4 dB peak to RMS ratio!

Client #2 doing a rock album is worried that the slightly clipped master I produced for him is distorting on some small systems and might make a poor MP3. I definitely agree I went too far with Client #2 and I made a mistake. I definitely think client #1 is making the wrong choice but I will do what he asks.

[Riccardo]

Originally Posted by TREMORS

I probably have no business adding a comment to this, with B. katz weighing in...

Im not sure about cubase, but I dont think all DAW meters are equal, either.
Clearly, if it's squaring off, it's clipped, but I have recorded files in PTLE that were not hitting red and exported to Sonar 4, and when played there, it is just smack into the red...and the opposite is true for me.
PT has a pretty obvious clip indicator, whileSonar seems to have more headroom before real clipping begins.
This may be result of 48 fixed vs 32 floating, however.

And, I am not sure if throwing a limiter on the master fader is any help, at all.
I always learned to keep the master fader at 0, and group and pull the other faders down. (again, PT lingo, at least..not sure of cubase)

It's FAR to easy to leave your volume knob/monitors low, and trying to squeeze more volume from the DAW itself....as we have all heard, probably...you gotta volume knob, if it aint loud enough, turn it up! (re: loudness wars)

Im equally curious about any more input in this area, as well.
And check Bob's columns at resolutionmag.com
Mastering is still a mystery to me, honestly.

-D

This is quite common. There is a small difference even between PT TDM and PT LE.

[Darius van H]

True Bob, we have to make these decisions every day without clear guidance from the customer which means we often get it wrong......c'est la vie!

[heathen]

In the end I guess it just comes down to what style of music and which converters are being clipped as its well known some are more forgiving. I've never used clipping but I don't think it hurts to know how far things can be pushed before the wheels fall off. I'm using apogee's and they are'nt the most forgiving but 1 or 2 mild clips won't be noticed, but it's a habit I avoid. Just my preference. No-one has complained yet that theres no clipping.