Track and Mastering Compressor?

[Blacky]

HI Guys!
What would you choose for a good track and mastering compressor.

Pendulum Audio OCL-2
http://www.pendulumaudio.com/OCL-2.html

Manley Vari/Mu
http://www.manleylabs.com/containerpages/mu99.html

other?


Thanks for information
Robert

[Riccardo]

One is an optical design, the other is a delta MU design. They are very different beasts.
Even if they were the same type of design I bet they'd sound different!
What are you looking for? What characteristics/type of sound?

[RoundBadge]

The Shadow Hills comp is my favorite "do it all box" these daysthumbsup

[sonicdefault]

For both tracking and mastering, you will be happiest with the Vari-Mu

[Joc R]

I agree....the Vari-Mu is propably the best choise...

Another good Vari-Mu (also a little bit cheaper ) is the Gyraf G10....

// J

[bob katz]

Originally Posted by sonicdefault

For both tracking and mastering, you will happiest with the Vari-Mu

This is REALLY dependent on your goal. The Pendulum has and is capable of a much faster response than any other optical i've met up with. If you want that "slow and easy and sweet" correction the Vari mu is the solution for that type of music or sound. But if you want to get a little more action or make something a bit more aggressive the OCL-2 works nice. Yet even there you may need faster action than even the OCL-2 and for that I choose my Cranesong Trakkers.
Only pointing out what others have said in this thread, that there is no "one size fits all" compressor. The Trakkers are very versatile, though, and they can do "slow optical" on demand, though even though they are discrete Class A, they won't have as tubey a sound as a Vari Mu or OCL-2 (when you need it!!!)

[sonicdefault]

Originally Posted by bob katz

...Only pointing out what others have said in this thread, that there is no "one size fits all" compressor ...

Mr. katz, There's nowhere in my post that claims that the Vari-Mu is a "one size fits all" compressor. I wasn't being presumptuous enough to think Robert thought so either. Between the two compressors he has listed, if he can only buy one, I believe the Manley is the clear choice. I'm aware he was open for opinions on other devices, but there aren't many units that could fit both categories (tracking and mastering) as well as the Variable-Mu.

[lucey]

Originally Posted by sonicdefault

For both tracking and mastering, you will happiest with the Vari-Mu

How on earth can anyone know what will make him "happiest"?

The Manley Variable Mu is the most hyped compressor of the last 10 years, from an era when there were few options. Like the Distressors, it's supposed to be a panacea? Come on. The Pendulum is a current hype winner. There are a ton of great compressors out there that can be used for both tracking and mastering.

Shadow Hills
Thermionic
Crane Song
Fairman
ADL
EAR
Fearn
Requisite
TFPro
etc
etc
etc ...


The first question I have is "what do you want it to do for your sound?"

[sonicdefault]

Originally Posted by lucey

How on earth can anyone know what will make him "happiest"?

Well that's simple lucey! I said he would be happiest with the Manley, because that's my opinion. After all... this is a forum based on opinions, right? So the answer is before you! I can express my opinion just like you did yours. The difference is, I actually tried to answer his question in the light-hearted manner in which it was asked rather than be critical. Sometimes people just want simple feedback, not engineering 101. This is his thread and he brought up the vari-mu. So why is this hard for you, lucey? He is interested in the Manley device for good reason.

[bob katz]

Originally Posted by sonicdefault

Mr. katz, There's nowhere in my post that claims that the Vari-Mu is a "one size fits all" compressor. I wasn't being presumptuous enough to think Robert thought so either. Between the two compressors he has listed, if he can only buy one, I believe the Manley is the clear choice. I'm aware he was open for opinions on other devices, but there aren't many units that could fit both categories (tracking and mastering) as well as the Variable-Mu.

I'm sorry. I didn't mean to put words in your mouth. But though you or someone else in the thread didn't say "there is one size that fits all" it is true that you or someone else felt that the poster would be "happiest" with the Vari-Mu. Which I personally disagree with. This thread is a matter of opinion for sure :-)

I've heard enough material passed through the Vari-Mu (though I do not currently own one) that I would NEVER pass through it. If I had one, it would sit idle in my room at least 75% of the time based on my personal mastering practices. So how could I recommend to him "you would be happiest with the vari mu"?

To be honest, my recommendation, given the choice of Pendulum OCL-2 versus the Vari-Mu, would be the Pendulum, because it can do slow medium and pretty fast very nicely. It can't do "creamy" as well as the Vari-Mu, but it can do "transparent' better than the vari-mu. And I usually prefer "transparent" to creamy except for that 25% of the time when I need "creamy". So, based on the law of averages and utility, I'd go for the Pendulum. Still, in my room, I only use the Pendulum OCL-2 about 25% of the time whenever I choose an analog compressor, so I'll stick to my guns and say that I could never recommend either one of the two singly, and between those two choices, neither one is "one size fits all"! The most versatile compressor (closest to "one size fits all") I've EVER encountered is the Cranesong Trakker (modified for long attack time option), still, it can't do "creamy" very well.

I only have two analog compressors currently, and I'd say when I use an analog compressor, it's 75% Trakker, 20% OCL-2, and sometimes both at once!

BK

[sonicdefault]

Originally Posted by bob katz

I'm sorry. I didn't mean to put words in your mouth. But though you or someone else in the thread didn't say "there is one size that fits all" it is true that you or someone else felt that the poster would be "happiest" with the Vari-Mu. Which I personally disagree with. This thread is a matter of opinion for sure :-)

BK

Mr. katz, thanks for your kind response. I own numerous compressors, one of which is the Vari-mu. I'm personally not big on going to the recorder with much compression. However, I know from experience that the Manley is a very flexible device, and sometimes it's perfect for certain tasks while tracking. Anyway, I think it is a viable investment which anyone would feel good about. I figure for most people on this forum, one more compressor is just that... one more compressor (not to overlook the limiting functionality of the vari-mu). I'm not sure why the word "happiest" has caused such a stir, though. What?... am I supposed to recommend a device he wouldn't be happy with? I'm speaking out of humor of course, because the whole discussion of my use of the word is just plain silly to me. Robert was asking us to "choose". It seems obvious to me by his wording, that he realizes a necessity to have a unit which serves two entirely different functions. I gave him the benefit of the doubt, that he knew there would most likely be some compromises.

[lucey]

Originally Posted by sonicdefault

I gave him the benefit of the doubt, that he knew there would most likely be some compromises.

Unfortunately, most people asking for this kind of input are not aware of the "no one piece is the best" reality. That's why people with experience tend to choose their words carefully.

"You will be happiest with ___" is just not true, and lowers the bar.

OTOH ... "I like ____ best" is stating our opinion.



I like almost every high end compressor ever made for a number of different needs ... so my question to him is "what do you need from this compressor?" If this thread is going to be useful to him at all, that's the starting point. If we want to name our fave, the truth is there are already 50 threads on lists of fave compressors.

[RoundBadge]

Originally Posted by sonicdefault

... Anyway, I think it is a viable investment which anyone would feel good about. I figure for most people on this forum, one more compressor is just that... one more compressor (not to overlook the limiting functionality of the vari-mu).

Guess I'm not of the "anyone" category.
..After owning the Manley for some years..i sold it..just found other pieces that worked better for my world thumbsup

[MattGray]

Originally Posted by RoundBadge

Guess I'm not of the "anyone" category.
..After owning the Manley for some years..i sold it..just found other pieces that worked better for my world thumbsup

Hunter how have you found the Shadow Hills comp? Are you finding all the different output transformers useful for different things? What sort of projects are you using it on? I'm seriously thinking about getting one of these so any user feedback would be great.

Thanks,

Matt

[sonicdefault]

Originally Posted by lucey

Unfortunately, most people asking for this kind of input are not aware of the "no one piece is the best" reality. That's why people with experience tend to choose their words carefully.

"You will be happiest with ___" is just not true, and lowers the bar.

Typical elitist rhetoric. What lowers the bar is arrogance. How do you know he wouldn't be happy with the Manley? The answer is... you don't anymore than I do.

[RoundBadge]

Originally Posted by MattGray

Hunter how have you found the Shadow Hills comp? Are you finding all the different output transformers useful for different things? What sort of projects are you using it on? I'm seriously thinking about getting one of these so any user feedback would be great.

Thanks,

Matt

Hey Matt...love the thing..wish I had two.
The opto section has a nice kinda rounding/puffy gooey thickness vibe to it..like the best LA3 youve ever heard, with maybe some Neve 2254 and TG-1 thrown in.
a little goes a long way on the 2 buss.
the VCA section is a punchy thing, but the overall vibe is much richer/ creamier/smoother than say, a Smart C2/SSL box..different enough to warrant keeping my C-2 as well, for the crunchy spank thing on drum subs,etc.
and the Stereo image on this thing stays wiiide.even/especially in stereo link
By default,the strereo buss goes through this thing for the mojo, wether I'm using compression or not.
Pete Reardon really spent some time Listening to this thing as he refined the curcuitry/design.
the sum of the parts really adds up to something special here..and i'm not remotely talking about the retro look of the thing..which I love BTW, depsite all the image snobbery over at PSW,..people wanna judge a box by it's looks?.. their loss.

the switchable trannies are very useful..
nickel/Demedio: nice clean hi's very clear mids..hi fi.extremely musical nonetheless.
iron/Neve:As I expected, lowend girth/ color on the mids smooth hi end..i seem to always start with this one for some reason.
Steel/API; more interesting stuff going on in the mids.. good for making really sterile stuff have a little grit & punch through the mids,lower mids.

This thing followed by 2 Pultecs or Fearn EQ's on a rock mix is a thing of sublime beauty..
seriously,i'm not worthy..

Just used it on some 2 mixes for some Secret Machines live stuff. F*cking Huge

And on top of the 2 buss thing it is a beast of a tracking compressor!!
On drum overheads and room mics it has become my favorite..over my other go to's: Neve 2264's, chandler TG-1 and even a motown 670 Fairchild i like.

Sorry Blacky.. back on topic.

[Riccardo]

Originally Posted by sonicdefault

Typical elitist rhetoric. What lowers the bar is arrogance. How do you know he wouldn't be happy with the Manley? The answer is... you don't anymore than I do.

Blacky,
get both units in for a demo and choose what you like best.
You have a Pendulum dealer in Germany (Akentz), one in Switzerland and two in the U.K. (either KMR or Unity Audio)
Sukopp does manley in Austria.
I am sure they can help.

[ISedlacek]

Originally Posted by Riccardo

Blacky,
get both units in for a demo and choose what you like best.
You have a Pendulum dealer in Germany (Akentz), one in Switzerland and two in the U.K. (either KMR or Unity Audio)
Sukopp does manley in Austria.
I am sure they can help.

You can also ask Gyraf Audio for sending GX unit for evaliation
This is one of the gem secrets in the high end waters ...

[Blacky]

Hey Guys your are awesome !
Sorry i was two days in Germany and can't look at the forum.
So, what can i say?
For me i can only buy the stuff step by step. Have few live recordings and studio recordings in the next time and make this things with my stuff as good as i can!
For me i have always troubles with the"digital hard sound's" in my ears.
Thought a little bit warming up in the mix like "sonicdefault" says the Vari/MU. But my problem is, i need the stuff also for bass lines, guitars..... with a comp. up to 10:1
Manley does 5:1 and also OcL2 i think.
But anyway the main thing what i found out was the characterization of this two items and this is enough for me!

One thing what is in my head is the Crane Song STC-8 (comp. 5:1 lim. 20:1) for mastering what can you say about this thing? And this add preset knobs for vocals, and others? This are the attitudes for track-recordings? Work this well in your ears?

Thanks for your excellent answers!

Jesus loves you!
Blacky

[MattGray]

Originally Posted by RoundBadge

Hey Matt...love the thing..wish I had two.
The opto section has a nice kinda rounding/puffy gooey thickness vibe to it..like the best LA3 youve ever heard, with maybe some Neve 2254 and TG-1 thrown in.
a little goes a long way on the 2 buss.

She sounds like a winner, although I get the impression that it is great for adding different varieties of colour. In your opinion is it capable of playing the transparent clean mastering compressor if required? When I say clean perhaps like the STC-8 or a Weiss DS-1 or is it really for adding vibe & character to sterile mixes?

I know it's hard to find a comp that is capable of serving every situation perfectly. Perhaps a perfect pair would be the Weiss DS-1 & the SH. I've already got the Weiss EQ1 & a Sontec MES-432C & these compliment each other well, so why not go the same philosophy with compression only I think the SH's would provide more versatility & colour options then my Sontec I think this combo would go a long way in covering my bases.

Matt

[lucey]

Blacky I would look at the Requisite L2M, it has far more transformer color than the Manley which has a light low end by comparison. The L2M is a high end LA2A style design with a built in sidechain for keeping it from sucking out the bass in mixing.

Tracking vocals and bass with LA2A types is a staple, and this unit works very well for 2 buss as a number of us who do mastering with it can attest.

The Thermionic Phoenix is another great option, very versatile and tube/transformer driven.

[Blacky]

Originally Posted by lucey

Blacky I would look at the Requisite L2M, it has far more transformer color than the Manley which has a light low end by comparison. The L2M is a high end LA2A style design with a built in sidechain for keeping it from sucking out the bass in mixing.

Tracking vocals and bass with LA2A types is a staple, and this unit works very well for 2 buss as a number of us who do mastering with it can attest.

The Thermionic Phoenix is another great option, very versatile and tube/transformer driven.

Thanks Lucey!
Yes, have a Manley Voxbox (La2a style) to record vocal, bass and guitars it works really good for me except the 3.1 compression should go up to 10:1. Sorry, idon't know the L2M what's the name from this company?
Thanks
Blacky

[lucey]

Originally Posted by lucey

Blacky I would look at the Requisite L2M,

The Thermionic Phoenix is another great option, very versatile and tube/transformer driven.

Vintage King and Calistro Music sell them both, as may other dealers I'm not aware of.

The Fearn VT-7 is also nice.

The Pendulum stuff is lighter on color than all of these IMO. More of a lean tube unit. Fully transformerless on the OCL-2. And transformerless output in the ES-8.

"Tubes" can be clean and quick ... dont assume they are phat. Transformers are often the main weight/color.


thumbsup

[Blacky]

Originally Posted by lucey

Vintage King and Calistro Music sell them both, as may other dealers I'm not aware of.

The Fearn VT-7 is also nice.

The Pendulum stuff is lighter on color than all of these IMO. More of a lean tube unit. Fully transformerless on the OCL-2. And transformerless output in the ES-8.

"Tubes" can be clean and quick ... dont assume they are phat. Transformers are often the main weight/color.


thumbsup

THANKS!

Jesus loves you!