Do any of you MEs ever get your ears checked?

[Franco]

I had to take my son into an audiology exam, I sat in the booth with him while he was listening to tones and throwing a foam ball (to signal he heard the tone). While sitting there, I wondered how many of you serious Mastering Engineers may do this from time to time?

I know you guys take great care in your monitoring options, room, acoustic treatments, but am wondering if you also take care of the most important part of it all, your ears?

[inlinenl]

Hi Franco,

Once I started this thread "how do you clean you're ears" .. it went pretty hilarious ..
candle stick cleaning your ears .. etc. etc.

follow the link it's fun to read ..

How do you clean your ears ...




Wim

www.inlinemastreing.com

[Franco]

Wow, haha. I usually search for everything and find most anything I'm interested in reading here at gearslutz, but for some reason, didn't think there would be such an...indepth thread on the subject, lol.

I didn't read about hearing protectors, when going to live shows. What are you engineers using at concerts (when being part of the audience). I use the blue Hearos.

[bob katz]

Originally Posted by Franco

I had to take my son into an audiology exam, I sat in the booth with him while he was listening to tones and throwing a foam ball (to signal he heard the tone). While sitting there, I wondered how many of you serious Mastering Engineers may do this from time to time?

I know you guys take great care in your monitoring options, room, acoustic treatments, but am wondering if you also take care of the most important part of it all, your ears?

As best I can. The years take their toll no matter how careful you are. I had an audiology test about 3 years ago and things are totally normal. They used to be "better than normal", so I can't complain.

BK

[LewKellogg]

I test mine periodically and wear plugs. I am glad that I started early so that now, at (insert large number here) I'm still hearing well.

[bcgood]

I don't know, I think my hearing is fine but then again, who knows. My ex girlfriend complained that I never listened, or something like that I wasn't really paying attention.

bcgood

[dcollins]

Standard hearing tests are only for speech acuity, so it can be used to see if you have had a change over time, but not so much how you will perceive music.

And don't stick candles in your ear. It does nothing except potentially drip wax on your eardrum.

Quackery pure and simple..................

DC

[carlsaff]

I had a short-term low-frequency hearing loss in one ear a couple years ago. As a result my brain heard overtones differently, and all music sounded out of tune for about 2 weeks. Scary stuff. Was afraid it might mean Meniere's Disease, but it was probably just a virus. Anyway, as a result, when my hearing came back, I was tested again and found that my hearing is actually near perfect, which is as good as an ex-rock musican can hope for. It was comforting to learn that (even if the test does, as Dave mentioned, only cover the speech ranges).

Also, I have had my doctor clean my ears with the good ol' hydrogen peroxide and water in a giant ear syringe method. That was an amazing experience! I couldn't believe the ammount of stuff that came out of my ears and the things I could hear after doing that. City traffic noise was positively grating for about a week. I did that almost 5 years ago and it was the first time in my life I had ever done it. I highly recommend it!

And listen to Dave -- the candles are crap.

[masteringhouse]

In the last hearing test I got they only tested up to about 8K so I would say that it is insufficient for music as Dave mentioned. I do my own hearing tests occasionally though particularly in the 15K and up region to verify I'm still ok and also to make certain the tweeters aren't blown :-)

[dcollins]

Originally Posted by carlsaff

And listen to Dave -- the candles are crap.

There are some gems here:

http://recforums.prosoundweb.com/ind.../3329/0/0/831/

Both from actual physicians (Peter Wilcox) and err.......uhhh........ehhh........others.

DC

[Lupo]

The last check I had was not for minimum audible threshold. Rather, it was for the ability to discern tones in the noise of the aircon and waiting room outside the non-sealed door..!

Most of the hearing test places are useless for our purposes. Will be more careful which place to do it next time.

[Cucco]

Well, since I had to have surgery on my ear drum about 10 years ago, I've gotten my ears checked annually. About 3 years ago, I informed my audiologist that I was a musician and I need a thorough examination - since then, things have been different.

I have (on an annual basis) now had extended tests (20 Hz tones down to 1dB - 20kHz tones to 1 dB) as well as brain-stem response tests. (They shove in-ear monitors down the tubes and play sustained tones with electrodes hooked up to your head and measure brain activity)

In all, the tests set me back about 2 to 3 hours a visit, once a year.

J.

[musictech]

As others have said, most ENT places only test the speech range, but their equipment can usually go higher and all you have to do is ask them to test up as high as their equipment allows. My ear doctor was able to test the "full range" up to 16 or 17 Khz, if I remember right (it's been a couple of years now).

[bob katz]

Originally Posted by musictech

As others have said, most ENT places only test the speech range, but their equipment can usually go higher and all you have to do is ask them to test up as high as their equipment allows. My ear doctor was able to test the "full range" up to 16 or 17 Khz, if I remember right (it's been a couple of years now).

As I understand it, there is no standard for testing that high. But as DC said, what you want to have is a baseline and then compare several years down the pike if there is any degradation. Another variable is the operator and the noise floor in the testing room, 5 or 10 dB variance either way.

BK

[brandy]

Originally Posted by bob katz

As I understand it, there is no standard for testing that high. But as DC said, what you want to have is a baseline and then compare several years down the pike if there is any degradation. Another variable is the operator and the noise floor in the testing room, 5 or 10 dB variance either way.

BK

I am not a Mastering Engineer but i did tests on a regular base. I once had a trauma in one ear caused by a noise-burst while doing a soundcheck (live). Unfortunatelly i had no earplugs in cause i arrived just a minute bevore. Fortunatelly the hearing issues (tinitus, dip at c4 etc) were not lasting longer than one week. It seems that everything was ok a few weeks later. The last tests were way above average. But maybe i am just better trained to detect those sines than "normal" people.

I mean: Hearing is a combination of ears and brain.

Funny anecdote: I detected and explained the doctor a slight hum (50 + 10 + 150hz i guessed) wich was there every 10 seconds or something like that.

Some weeks bevore the technical service was there and checked that machine, told the doc that everything is ok and stuff. It seems that no one of the candidates was able to realize that hum. The doc was quite happy because of my "error-report".

;-)


brandy

[brandy]

P.S: yes, indeed there is a noiseflor (trafic outside, hiss on the headphones...) as well as a standart test only goes up to 11khz or something like that. Additional to that the assistant who does the test has usualy to mark a point on the paper by hand, so - you hear the signal, then you immediatelly hit the button, then it needs some time until the lazy assistant reacts and marks that point...

[Dimension Zero]

So, what do you do if your hearing degrades? Quit your job? Tell your clients? Don't tell your clients and hope they won't notice the mixes are too bright? Try to get by with meters?

My point is I guess testing is only useful so you know you are going deaf. There is nothing that can be done to fix the problem, right? Unless you want to wear speakers in your ears. But there is no way to reverse the damage...yet..

Monty
http://www.dimensionzero.com

[jamsmith]

An physicist has spent about 6 years working on the issue of hearing loss. He has developed a product than can compensate for it. And not its not a hearing aid.

Refined Audiometrics Laboratory


Who are you people going to for hearing tests? Go see an audiologist, and not some guy working in the backroom at the BellTone in the mall. A friend of mine went to school to learn to be one. She had no background in audio and came to me to help here understand the subject. They cover a lot of ground. The "hearing aid" tests are just for speech. There scores of different tests you can take.

[jayfrigo]

I try to get tested every year, though realistically it sometimes is every other year. I request extended range tests when possible, and though the same standards aren't available as for speech tests, there is useful information to be had. It's good to keep an... um, eye... on it. Universities are often the places with the extended range equipment and the people interested in going above and beyond the average test.

As for cleanings, the murine drops are useful every now and again, and I've had a professional cleaning twice in the past 20 years or so. The stuff that hardens and doesn't come out with the drops is worth getting looked at every few years in an ENT doctor's office I suppose. Your regular doctor can look in there and tell you if it's near blocking, but have a specialist do the cleaning if you need one.

Earplugs are essential if you want longevity in this business. I have the musician's plugs for movies and things I want to hear full range for, and I use the foam ones if I'm not as interested in full range, or if the SPL is just too loud. I always keep them with me, and use them in all kinds of places where there's noise pollution. Sometimes, that describes the studio, but I digress!

[No4PCs]

Originally Posted by Franco

I had to take my son into an audiology exam, I sat in the booth with him while he was listening to tones and throwing a foam ball (to signal he heard the tone). While sitting there, I wondered how many of you serious Mastering Engineers may do this from time to time?

I know you guys take great care in your monitoring options, room, acoustic treatments, but am wondering if you also take care of the most important part of it all, your ears?

Friend, i have the damned " Tinittus"...maybe because when i was adolescent i did play loud every day. My ear-doctor recommended Ginkobiloba pills. No result.
I think no cure for me...
I do recommend your son be aware from loud sound sources and/or play with ear-protection and try get taste to hear low level volumes musical sources.

[prolearts]

I had my ears tested maybe 5 years ago now, and found the experience not terribly convincing. It was at the facility of a licensed audiologist, at an area hospital. His booth probably had a pretty high noise floor with the hvac and used the same sort of hard plastic clunky headphones that you used to use in elementary school hearing tests. The noise of the cans scooching ever so slightly on my head was about at the same level as the hvac and I felt like I only ever heard the tones emerging from under the noise floor of the environment. I wish I could find out about somewhere with a more "audiophile" (for lack of a better word!) environment.

Many of us could probably partner up with someone in our own rooms and find out a lot more about our hearing than at the typical audiologist's office. May try that sometime.

best,
Jason Ward
Chicago Mastering Service

[Ben F]

Originally Posted by No4PCs

Friend, i have the damned " Tinittus"...maybe because when i was adolescent i did play loud every day. My ear-doctor recommended Ginkobiloba pills. No result.
I think no cure for me...

Australia is a world leader in tinnitus research, you may want to check out this website Neuromonics Tinnitus Treatment

[BouncyJones]

Originally Posted by prolearts

Many of us could probably partner up with someone in our own rooms and find out a lot more about our hearing than at the typical audiologist's office. May try that sometime.

best,
Jason Ward
Chicago Mastering Service

I'm surprised that some masterers don't offer it as an extra service to musicians during dry times of the year (although maybe there's so much business there's no need).

[jamsmith]

Originally Posted by prolearts

I had my ears tested maybe 5 years ago now, and found the experience not terribly convincing. It was at the facility of a licensed audiologist, at an area hospital. His booth probably had a pretty high noise floor with the hvac and used the same sort of hard plastic clunky headphones that you used to use in elementary school hearing tests. The noise of the cans scooching ever so slightly on my head was about at the same level as the hvac and I felt like I only ever heard the tones emerging from under the noise floor of the environment. I wish I could find out about somewhere with a more "audiophile" (for lack of a better word!) environment.

Many of us could probably partner up with someone in our own rooms and find out a lot more about our hearing than at the typical audiologist's office. May try that sometime.

best,
Jason Ward
Chicago Mastering Service

The best hearing tests I ever saw was when I worked (civilian) at the Naval Submarine Medical Research Center in New London, CT in the electronics shop. They were administered by the guy incharge of psychoacoustic research in a section that include heavily isolated rooms either heavy with acoustic paneling or anechoic chambers.


Speaking of anechoic chambers, if you have ever been in a real one (not just walls, but ceiling and floor- you walk on a grating) it is strange. In short amount of time you can hear the blood coursing through your veins. In one chamber, the wedges where all badly misshapen. from the grating level on down. Turns out they had brought and Nazi scientist captured during WWII in to work at the facility. This guy filled the bottom of the chamber with water and put a bunch of sailors in there!

Damn, I was looking for a photo and found a Wikipedia entry on the facility:

Naval Submarine Medical Research Laboratory - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[WBM]

Test your ears is a good thing you ever know when your nastral is congest or have an inflammation on one side, that it will change the frequency and the image in your brain ,so if you want to leave your clients happy, at least check them once a year, don't use that much Q,tips, cotton it wil stay in the eardrum.

[AnAverageJoe]

I'm not a ME, but I got mines check a couple months ago, I get them check every 4-6months, since I make money with my ears, I mine as well take great care of them

[Matthew Foust]

Originally Posted by Cucco

Well, since I had to have surgery on my ear drum about 10 years ago, I've gotten my ears checked annually. About 3 years ago, I informed my audiologist that I was a musician and I need a thorough examination - since then, things have been different.

I have (on an annual basis) now had extended tests (20 Hz tones down to 1dB - 20kHz tones to 1 dB) as well as brain-stem response tests. (They shove in-ear monitors down the tubes and play sustained tones with electrodes hooked up to your head and measure brain activity)

In all, the tests set me back about 2 to 3 hours a visit, once a year.

J.

Ditto this. Tell your audiologist what you do for a living and they'll test you appropriately. I highly recommend that you find the best ENT and the best audiologist you can and get your ears, sinuses and throat checked once a year. At a minimum, have your hearing tested thoroughly every two years. I suggest this for ANY serious musician, engineer (live or studio), producer, etc.

I have had a litany of issues with my noggin (tonsillectomy at age 20, eustachian tube dysfunction in my left ear, sinus antrostomy last fall) and having a great relationship with a great ENT has basically saved my ears. After 15 years of dealing with ear, nose and throat problems, my hearing is still above average and I can safely say that that would not be the case had I not properly managed my issues with my ENT and audiologist.

[mworks]

The interesting piece of this discussion is what happens when your hearing changes, even subtly. PRessure differences and build up of material in the ear MUST be causing changes and age certainly does too, but look at Bob Ludwig, Bernie, Doug etc working well past the 'time of physiological' change (how's that for a euphemism!). Clearly our brains are constantly adapting and interpreting stimuli over the short term and long term. The need for hearing test is usually to determine baseline human functionality....can we communicate effectively with each other. Otherwise hearing tests seem like a way to make sure nothing's terribly wrong, but nothing much beyond that....

an aside....it's when tinnitus happens that you really gotta worry...listening level and the distortion component of litening/monitoring are everything...

[lucey]

Originally Posted by mworks

The interesting piece of this discussion is what happens when your hearing changes, even subtly. PRessure differences and build up of material in the ear MUST be causing changes and age certainly does too, but look at Bob Ludwig, Bernie, Doug etc working well past the 'time of physiological' change (how's that for a euphemism!). Clearly our brains are constantly adapting and interpreting stimuli over the short term and long term. The need for hearing test is usually to determine baseline human functionality....can we communicate effectively with each other. Otherwise hearing tests seem like a way to make sure nothing's terribly wrong, but nothing much beyond that....

an aside....it's when tinnitus happens that you really gotta worry...listening level and the distortion component of litening/monitoring are everything...

Right ... so both things are true. Tests are good to know your physiological basis. And in the real world, the brain adapts. I start every session with a minute of listening to a ref folder, and assuming tinnitus never takes hold that should be enough to reset any physical losses that occur over time.

[twwalsh]

Originally Posted by lucey

Right ... so both things are true. Tests are good to know your physiological basis. And in the real world, the brain adapts. I start every session with a minute of listening to a ref folder, and assuming tinnitus never takes hold that should be enough to reset any physical losses that occur over time.

well, i've had tinnitus since childhood. it was definitely made worse over years of playing drums in bands and touring, but i don't think it's ever affected my audio engineering. i only notice it in a silent environment, and i've gotten used to it since it's all i've ever known.