Weiss Saracon still the best DOWNSAMPLING and DITHERING program yet ??
Andreas Baldomr
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#1
13th July 2013
Old 13th July 2013
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Weiss Saracon still the best DOWNSAMPLING and DITHERING program yet ??

Hi Mastering Engineers, is the Weiss Saracon still the best DOWNSAMPLING and DITHERING program yet ??

Is there anything better ? more transparent ?


Also, which should be done first for better results ? SRC first or Dither first ?

Thank you very much
#2
13th July 2013
Old 13th July 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andreas Baldomr View Post
Hi Mastering Engineers, is the Weiss Saracon still the best DOWNSAMPLING and DITHERING program yet ??

Is there anything better ? more transparent ?


Also, which should be done first for better results ? SRC first or Dither first ?

Thank you very much
There is a PC-only app called FinalCD that performs better than Saracon on the Infinitewave tests.
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Andreas Baldomr
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13th July 2013
Old 13th July 2013
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Originally Posted by Huntley Miller View Post
There is a PC-only app called FinalCD that performs better than Saracon on the Infinitewave tests.
Thank you very much for the information, I have downloaded the latest version and clicked on the .exe file but it's not working. :( It says " the program can's start because the ipps20.dll is missing from your computer"

Would you please tell me how to make this thing work ?

Thank you very much
Andreas Baldomr
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13th July 2013
Old 13th July 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Huntley Miller View Post
There is a PC-only app called FinalCD that performs better than Saracon on the Infinitewave tests.
Oh and another question if you don't mind, what about the sound of it ? More transparent conversion than Weiss or Izotope or Voxengo ?
Table Of Tone
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13th July 2013
Old 13th July 2013
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Originally Posted by Andreas Baldomr View Post
Oh and another question if you don't mind, what about the sound of it ? More transparent conversion than Weiss or Izotope or Voxengo ?
Better than anything else on the planet! Hardware or software! CMD line only though, so you'll need to suss out how to use it
DSD_Mastering
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13th July 2013
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Definitely not for DSD..... even PCM.

Better conversion can be had in Izotope, Pyramix and a few others.
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jayfrigo
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#7
14th July 2013
Old 14th July 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Huntley Miller View Post
There is a PC-only app called FinalCD that performs better than Saracon on the Infinitewave tests.
Weiss Saracon and Izotope SRC with all the controls in the RX advanced version are still my 2 favorites.

Be careful about taking the test graphs to literally without taking into account the full range and complexity of SRC.

For example, the Weiss shows on one of the graphs that it allows a tiny bit of aliasing which one might think is a defect compared to an alternative that shows no aliasing, but that is intentional. The very low level of the aliasing coupled with the fact that it is at extremely high frequency makes it practically impossible to hear, but you can gain improvements in other areas (like pre-ringing) that can be more objectionable to our ear/brain.

Without understanding the full picture and why a designer may have made an intentional decision to balance tradeoffs for better subjective performance, i.e. better sound, looking at a handful of graphs won't necessarily tell you what the "best" Sample Rate Converter is. Those graphs, however, are an incredible resource, especially when you appreciate what's "under the hood."
#8
14th July 2013
Old 14th July 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andreas Baldomr View Post
Hi Mastering Engineers, is the Weiss Saracon still the best DOWNSAMPLING and DITHERING program yet ??

Is there anything better ? more transparent ?


Also, which should be done first for better results ? SRC first or Dither first ?

Thank you very much
I prefer iZotope's 64-bit SRC and MBIT+ Dither (iZotope RX 2 Advanced).

I resample before dithering.
#9
14th July 2013
Old 14th July 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jayfrigo View Post

Be careful about taking the test graphs to literally without taking into account the full range and complexity of SRC.

For example, the Weiss shows on one of the graphs that it allows a tiny bit of aliasing which one might think is a defect compared to an alternative that shows no aliasing, but that is intentional. The very low level of the aliasing coupled with the fact that it is at extremely high frequency makes it practically impossible to hear, but you can gain improvements in other areas (like pre-ringing) that can be more objectionable to our ear/brain.

Without understanding the full picture and why a designer may have made an intentional decision to balance tradeoffs for better subjective performance, i.e. better sound, looking at a handful of graphs won't necessarily tell you what the "best" Sample Rate Converter is.
+1

Half wisdom is worse than no wisdom at all when it comes to these things.

Fact is, all srcs mentioned above work at the edge of physics and audibility. They also use nearly equal technology. These modern srcs introduce easily 100 times less noise and distortion than any other processor in the studio.
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Table Of Tone
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14th July 2013
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Originally Posted by DSD_Mastering View Post
Definitely not for DSD..... even PCM.

Better conversion can be had in Izotope, Pyramix and a few others.
FinalCD doesn't do DSD but it sounds better than anything else out there for PCM.
The difference isn't small!

It also only takes you to 44.1 so you'll need to use something else if a different target rate is required.
#11
14th July 2013
Old 14th July 2013
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I've been using Shibatch SSRC high precision because of it's decent charts on Infinite Wave and the fact that it's free and command line (I have a bunch of drag and drop batch files made).

I've never done an extensive shootout.

Any negative opinions for SSRC HP?
#12
14th July 2013
Old 14th July 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andreas Baldomr View Post
Hi Mastering Engineers, is the Weiss Saracon still the best DOWNSAMPLING and DITHERING program yet ??

Is there anything better ? more transparent ?
Better or worse donĀ“t know - but an alternative in the same league.

Sonic Studio Process SRC
#13
15th July 2013
Old 15th July 2013
  #13
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+1 for Final CD, i find it really good!

2R
#14
15th July 2013
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Worth noting that Izotope's advanced SRC and Dither options are available in Audiofile Engineering Sample Manager. You need to buy the add on pack, but its still under $100 for the whole thing.
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Andreas Baldomr
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#15
18th July 2013
Old 18th July 2013
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Originally Posted by syntone View Post
+1 for Final CD, i find it really good!

2R
Salut mon ami, I have downloaded the latest version and clicked on the .exe file but it's not working. :( It says " the program can's start because the ipps20.dll is missing from your computer"

Would you please tell me how to make this thing work ?

Thank you very much in advance
#16
19th July 2013
Old 19th July 2013
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andreas Baldomr View Post
I have downloaded the latest version and clicked on the .exe file but it's not working. :( It says " the program can's start because the ipps20.dll is missing from your computer"

Would you please tell me how to make this thing work ?
I'd say FinalCD is pretty advanced for a beginner. It's not a program you can run by double clicking, you have to use it through the command line, or for single files through a frontend. Even when fully set up, which takes time to do right, the best functionality you can get for multiple tracks is to drag and drop them onto a shortcut, and then the conversion will start. I really like it but I'm patient and it's the kind of thing you'd use if you want the absolute best conversion but don't mind waiting a few minutes for each track to convert, don't mind a bit of a convoluted process to get there, etc.

It clearly says on the download page that you need to install the IPP libraries also on that page (as well as .NET framework 3.5 for the frontend).
da goose
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#17
19th July 2013
Old 19th July 2013
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What about the SRC from wavelab? I think it's really great and though I never tested weiss, some people claim it's far better.
bendermastering
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#18
19th July 2013
Old 19th July 2013
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Originally Posted by thermos View Post
Worth noting that Izotope's advanced SRC and Dither options are available in Audiofile Engineering Sample Manager. You need to buy the add on pack, but its still under $100 for the whole thing.
True, it is a must have for every studio with a Mac.

I just recently discovered AppleScripts and now Sample Manager is even more incredible.
#19
20th July 2013
Old 20th July 2013
  #19
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Quote:
Salut mon ami, I have downloaded the latest version and clicked on the .exe file but it's not working. :( It says " the program can's start because the ipps20.dll is missing from your computer"

Would you please tell me how to make this thing work ?

Thank you very much in advance
Salut Andreas,

Robo described what to do.
Even if it's not an obligation, I've installed it in c:

And thank to DC for having shared!


Quote:
What about the SRC from wavelab? I think it's really great and though I never tested weiss, some people claim it's far better.
I find it's a good addition for the price, but for my ears, FinalCD beats the src of wavelab without a doubt.

2R
Hermetech Mastering
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#20
20th July 2013
Old 20th July 2013
  #20
The latest version of FinalCD no longer needs the IPP file install. I've got the front end working great here. Just remember to enclose file paths in quotation marks if they contain spaces, and all is good to go!
#21
24th July 2013
Old 24th July 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Babaluma View Post
The latest version of FinalCD no longer needs the IPP file install
Right, the version must have been updated just after my post. Cheers!
#22
24th July 2013
Old 24th July 2013
  #22
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Best of Both

I actually use Saracon for my SRC and Izotope's MBit for Dither. As a classical guy, it seems to be the most transparent path for my ears.
#23
26th July 2013
Old 26th July 2013
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by da goose View Post
What about the SRC from wavelab? I think it's really great and though I never tested weiss, some people claim it's far better.
I have both. Subjectively, I prefer the Weiss.
#24
18th June 2014
Old 18th June 2014
  #24
Gear Head
 

I like pyramixs src and dither more than saracon. I was using saracon for everything until I started utilizing Hepta with the apodizing filter..
Ruairi
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#25
18th June 2014
Old 18th June 2014
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bendermastering View Post
I just recently discovered AppleScripts and now Sample Manager is even more incredible.
ELI5 - What can Applescripts do for a daily Sample Manager user?
#26
18th June 2014
Old 18th June 2014
  #26
i like izotope rx and voxengo r8brian
#27
18th June 2014
Old 18th June 2014
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some SRC software (e.g. rx3, sox & also r8brain to some extend) anyway allow to define yourself the amount of ringing, cutoff frequency and type & steepness of the filter, so this is always a tradeoff between those parameters.
Hermetech Mastering
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#28
19th June 2014
Old 19th June 2014
  #28
FinalCD here still for downsampling 96 or 48 to 44.1. Everything else iZotope RX3. Ditched R8Brain Pro these two came along, audibly better!
nickmoon
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#29
20th June 2014
Old 20th June 2014
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I've got Weiss Saracon and like it allot. Wavelab has its Crystal Resampler which is handy for keeping your Montage at your capture rate. I haven't directly compared the two but nothing has jumped out at me as "better"
Mbit dither in Wavelab has been my standard.
#30
20th June 2014
Old 20th June 2014
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Usually saracon is my go to SRC, but ocasionally you will convert a track and it just doesn't feel right and loses something. In those instances usually the izotope SRC in sample manager can make an appreciable difference.

I haven't managed to work out what it is in a track that makes the difference, but it is worth checking an alternate SRC if you feel you've lost something along the way.
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