Ozone 5 + Alloy vs Ozone 5 Advanced vs Waves Equivalent
smoovemode
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#1
5th May 2013
Old 5th May 2013
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Ozone 5 + Alloy vs Ozone 5 Advanced vs Waves Equivalent

I am shopping for some mixing and mastering tools that fit my limited but growing mastering skill set. I use mostly virtual instruments and expect to track vocals or maybe an instrument "here & there". Whatever plugins I use will be mostly used for myself and Artists I work with. My theory is for "free" music (stream or free downloads) there is no reason to spend the extra money on "outsourcing" professional mastering. I feel you just can't beat the skills of someone who does mastering everyday unless they're "shi**y" at it. But for those songs I want to make money on, I feel it's only fair to my customers that I AT LEAST have a professional mastering expert AT LEAST scan over what I've done and if it sounds bad have the expert do the master.

So if it's free, it's "me (self mastering)"

If for pay, it's "they (pro mastering)"

Questions

1. Is Ozone 5 advanced more powerful that Ozone 5 and Alloy? In other words are the plugin separates in Ozone 5 advanced better than Alloy?

2. Is Alloy a better plugin than T-Racks Plugins?

3. Does Waves have an "all in one" solution like Ozone or will I need to buy a bundle? If I do, will waves be a lot more difficult to setup than Ozone and will the results be well worth it (literally saving me mastering services)?

4. My weakness is compressor settings. Are there wave compressors that are easy to use and as powerful as Ozone's multi band compressor? Does a T-Rack compressor compare to either Waves or Ozone (I already have T-Racks).

5. Vocal Plugins - How does Izotope Nectar compare with Waves Tune Lite? Nectar seems to come with a lot more features for a lower price than Waves lite Version. Does either one do the T-Pain effect better than the other? Does auto tune sound better than them? I DON"T expect to get too picky with vocals correction. Mostly subtle changes on vocal performances.

6. If I go waves. Which plugins (specifically) do you recommend using for an newbie with growing skills? I don't want to buy something that works great for me now, but has me wanting more in a few months.


I have watched several mastering videos. But, I want to know if there's a certain safe method/chain to use on mastering/mixing R&B, pop, edm and hip hop (i.e. which processor to use first, etc)?
Riccardo
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#2
5th May 2013
Old 5th May 2013
  #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smoovemode View Post
I have watched several mastering videos. But, I want to know if there's a certain safe method/chain to use on mastering/mixing R&B, pop, edm and hip hop (i.e. which processor to use first, etc)?

I do not own Waves or Ozone so I can't help you although I am sure other will chime in. Just a little tip you are unlikely to find in mastering videos on the internets: there are no set "chains" or methods as such. The most difficult and time consuming thing to learn in mastering is when not to do anything. Or if you turn it around what to do IF anything is needed (if really needed), This brigs it all back down to experience (over time) and listening.

Having said that if I am not mistaken Waves does not offer an all in one solution but rather a bundle. It may be more flexible or you may prefer the "integrated" Izotope solution. Maybe see if they do a demo for a period of time.
Use what is needed only if and when it is needed. Learn by doing it.If you are afraid of mistakes, test on your own (or close friends) material.

This is not specific but seeing you are mentioning EDM and HipHop you definitely need a monitoring system (this include the space, i.e.the room) that faithfully reproduces the low end of the spectrum.
#3
6th May 2013
Old 6th May 2013
  #3
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O5 Advanced is more powerful than o5 plus Alloy. The biggest Advantage is Insight the meters suite. O5 Advanced gives more parameter controls in each module and more algorithms then standard O5. Whether you need all of what O5 Advanced offer or not is the question. There is a comparison chart on Izotope's website.

You would need a VERY big bundle from Waves to replace all of what O5 Advanced offers. O5 Advanced is deceptively large when it comes to number of algorithms, and it is very flexible. Some of O5 Advanced's components like the dynamics section alone has 4 different processors - Compressor, gate, limiter, expander but because of the different modes (peak, envelope, rms/ Analog, digital, hybrid) its more variety. If i recall correctly the waves are generally single algorithm and single mode for each plugin. Waves have a few really flexible plugins like c4/c6 but you would still need many other plugins with them to compare to O5 Advanced. There are many different saturation modes in O5 Advanced aswell, same with reverb, etc. It's easy to overlook all the different algorithms and modes of O5 Advanced. Many of the algorithms are new in O5 Advanced but i think too many of the algorithms in Waves gold and other bundles are too old and dated sounding imo. But Waves will give more variety with their bundles far as more categories goes that are apart from mastering (creative effects, and vintage-emulations, etc). O5 standard and Advanced are very flexible with most of their modules i.e. multiband, M/S Processing, multiple modes, etc .

I prefered O5 Avanced but its best you demo it and Waves and Alloy to see what works best for your music. I like O5 A's sound and intergrated/ all-in-one approach, i have not demoed Waves recently but many years ago i was not crazy about them when i tried them, ymmv.

Alloy has a couple tricks O5 Advanced does'nt such as its transient-shaper. Alloy can also be monitored in O5 Advanced's meter-bridge. I have O5 Advanced and plan on buying Alloy as well. They both cover many of the same processor categories but i think O5 is more no-compromise and Alloy is designed to be more efficient latency-wise and cpu-wise (for Mixing and Tracking VS. Mastering).

PS. There is a free mastering guide on Izotope's website here - iZotope December 2012 Newsletter: Best of 2012 | Season of Giving | What's Your New Year's Audio Resolution? .



EDITED
#4
6th May 2013
Old 6th May 2013
  #4
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Also try the TDR Feedback compressor. It's extremely clean and high quality sounding, and it's free. It beats most of the best commercial ones i've heard. Here is the link - TDR Feedback Compressor II | Tokyo Dawn Records


PS. There will be a bigger commercial version as well soon for TDR.
smoovemode
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6th May 2013
Old 6th May 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sounddesigner View Post
O5 Advanced is more powerful than o5 plus Alloy. The biggest Advantage is Insight the meters suite. O5 Advanced gives more parameter controls in each module and more algorithms then standard O5. Whether you need all of what O5 Advanced offer or not is the question. There is a comparison chart on Izotope's website.

You would need a VERY big bundle from Waves to replace all of what O5 Advanced offers. O5 Advanced is deceptively large when it comes to number of algorithms, and it is very flexible. Some of O5 Advanced's components like the dynamics section alone has 4 different processors - Compressor, gate, limiter, expander but because of the different modes (peak, envelope, rms/ Analog, digital, hybrid) its more variety. If i recall correctly the waves are generally single algorithm and single mode for each plugin. Waves have a few really flexible plugins like c4/c6 but you would still need many other plugins with them to compare to O5 Advanced. There are many different saturation modes in O5 Advanced aswell, same with reverb, etc. It's easy to overlook all the different algorithms and modes of O5 Advanced. Many of the algorithms are new in O5 Advanced but i think too many of the algorithms in Waves gold and other bundles are too old and dated sounding imo. But Waves will give more variety with their bundles far as more categories goes that are apart from mastering (creative effects, and vintage-emulations, etc). O5 standard and Advanced are very flexible with most of their modules i.e. multiband, M/S Processing, multiple modes, etc .

I prefered O5 Avanced but its best you demo it and Waves and Alloy to see what works best for your music. I like O5 A's sound and intergrated/ all-in-one approach, i have not demoed Waves recently but many years ago i was not crazy about them when i tried them, ymmv.

Alloy has a couple tricks O5 Advanced does'nt such as its transient-shaper. Alloy can also be monitored in O5 Advanced's meter-bridge. I have O5 Advanced and plan on buying Alloy as well. They both cover many of the same processor categories but i think O5 is more no-compromise and Alloy is designed to be more efficient latency-wise and cpu-wise (for Mixing and Tracking VS. Mastering).

PS. There is a free mastering guide on Izotope's website here - iZotope December 2012 Newsletter: Best of 2012 | Season of Giving | What's Your New Year's Audio Resolution? .



EDITED
I have been using the Ozone Demo for a few days and it's already has given me much better results than T-Racks and I'm not even scratching the surface. I find the presets very helpful when you choose the right one. If one says "hip hop", I WON"T use it on hip hop. I'll use that preset on something that's lacking bass and it's all good. Then I'll tweak it from there. I like to use rock presets for bass heavy mixes and then tweak. I like the idea of using one plugin network to master with. It's harder to get "lost". I did download a Waves demo too, but it seems like the sort of thing that you need to really "know what you're doing" to use properly.
#6
7th May 2013
Old 7th May 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smoovemode View Post
I like the idea of using one plugin network to master with. It's harder to get "lost".

For your information; You can change the order of Ozone's modules to process your signal and insert meters at any point of the signal processing chain. Just click the 'GRAPH' tab and drag any of the module processors and meters to any point of the chain you want them at. Ozone's EQ, Compressor, reverb, etc can be in whatever order you choose.
#7
8th May 2013
Old 8th May 2013
  #7
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Google Ozone's free guide to mastering .pdf 2013.
There are plenty of books, and video tutorials on the subject.

Many are under the assumption, that mastering engineers always use multiband
compression...ect..
And pretty much alot of the videos on youtube also.
Watch almost any so called mastering tutorial on youtube, and they will most likely bust out a multiband.
And most do not even use them correctly or explain why they are doing it.
Maybe they feel it makes them look crafty, hell I dont know.
Probably to the inexperienced, they may seem crafty..lol

Mid Side multiband anything, is usually used to fix stuff.
Though that is not a rule, just saying.
This is rarely the case if working with a good mix.
However those who master budget work may use it more often.
Good luck!
#8
8th May 2013
Old 8th May 2013
  #8
Gear Head
 

Hi,

I wouldn't go for Waves:

1. Waves tend to boast that they have 250 audio processors, but that is due to breaking them down to singles, not packed to what you really need. I guess this way it is easier to collect more money...

2. I tend to think that the OZONE gear is much more up to date, better sounding and can bring out more. This is my experience. Saying that, I'm not a mastering expert. YMMV.

3. surprisingly enough, there are great FREE VST offering you the ability to do quality mastering. You will have to dig some and find the right ones for you.

Is The Free Yohng W1 Limiter Really a Waves L1 Clone? - The RedFaux Transmission

New freeware limiter I liked

I agree with the above. Mastering is usually more down to experience and correct monitoring system than Waves/OZ/other.

Rocko
smoovemode
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8th May 2013
Old 8th May 2013
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Thanks everyone for your advice. I purchased ozone 5 advanced and it's made a huge improvement in my music... Huge. It's a great learning tool as well for mixing because I feel like if I have to tweak too much in Ozone that its best for me just to go back to the mix and make adjustments.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317
Quote
1
#10
8th May 2013
Old 8th May 2013
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smoovemode View Post
Thanks everyone for your advice. I purchased ozone 5 advanced and it's made a huge improvement in my music... Huge. It's a great learning tool as well for mixing because I feel like if I have to tweak too much in Ozone that its best for me just to go back to the mix and make adjustments.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317
Great to hear. I got a bundle with RX for video production and editing.
Of course audio. Izotope has came a long way.

If you ever consider getting any Waves plugs,
research their whole licensing hierarchy.

Trying to sale them is a pain, and you can lose your ass($).
With all the transfer fees, WUP, ect.. ect..

I will never part with my Renaissance or C1.

With all the advances in modeling, there are many options out there.

If I could do it all over, ..
Room would come first, along with monitoring.
A good engineer using stock plugins can still make hits.
smoovemode
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#11
8th May 2013
Old 8th May 2013
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Originally Posted by DozerMayne View Post
Great to hear. I got a bundle with RX for video production and editing.
Of course audio. Izotope has came a long way.

If you ever consider getting any Waves plugs,
research their whole licensing hierarchy.

Trying to sale them is a pain, and you can lose your ass($).
With all the transfer fees, WUP, ect.. ect..

I will never part with my Renaissance or C1.

With all the advances in modeling, there are many options out there.

If I could do it all over, ..
Room would come first, along with monitoring.
A good engineer using stock plugins can still make hits.
Well Said,

My room has very little treatment and that's something I need to address. But, I'm renting so I need to think of some way to mount the panels without gluing. Maybe some sort of screen to put the panels on and lean it against the walls?

About the Waves, one of my priorities is to get the bundle for voice and pitch correction. I was thinking about getting Nectar, but I haven't heard too many things about it. There are a few bundles with Waves Tune Lite, doubler, etc, and I was thinking about getting one of those vs Nectar/Alloy. I can't seem to find any reviews on nectar. I found one on here, but it was from 2010.

I'm loving ozone 5, though. Last night I took an un-mixed wave from Maschine and it even made that sound really good.

So, my next steps are room treatment (no brainer)
and vocal processing (Waves vs Izotope)

I don't think I'll need RX. But I heard it's preferred over Waves repair.
#12
6th September 2013
Old 6th September 2013
  #12
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Celemony melodyne with DNA...
smoovemode
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#13
6th September 2013
Old 6th September 2013
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Originally Posted by Rocko21 View Post
Celemony melodyne with DNA...
Ive been messing around with Variaudio 2. It's been doing a pretty good job.
#14
6th September 2013
Old 6th September 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smoovemode View Post
My room has very little treatment and that's something I need to address. But, I'm renting so I need to think of some way to mount the panels without gluing. Maybe some sort of screen to put the panels on and lean it against the walls?

....
GIK Acoustics will help tremendously with that.

They hang up just like a painting. You can find the hooks at any hardware store or even many supermarkets.

Easy-to-Use Wall Hooks for Hanging Pictures

Mounting GIK Acoustics Products in Corners - GIK Acoustics

Nice thing about their products is they do a great job, and when you move, you just take them with you and even the hooks. The holes left in the wall are pin size.

And back to the topic at hand, I'm a fan of Ozone for an all in one mastering plug. It will definitely get you going. I'd stay away from the presets though.
Bob Olhsson
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#15
7th September 2013
Old 7th September 2013
  #15
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It's a good thing that plug-ins are cheap because I've never found any that are always the best at everything.
#16
10th September 2013
Old 10th September 2013
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I would start with Ozone 5 and Alloy 2 if i were you - ozone advanced is beyond what your really need at this point it sounds like....and is much more expensive.

It really will give you all that you need to get started with plugins and cover both your mixing and mastering purposes.....

Waves has some decent stuff but nothing thats all in one....id avoid them for now.
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